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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Tinkers


Rokof
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I would argue against their clothing looking nothing like cadin'sor simply for the fact that no one in the Westlands has ever linked the two groups of people. The Aiel War was recent enough that if there were any similarities, surely someone would have picked up on it.

 

I tend to think of their clothing as functional, though bright. The men wear breaches, tan or brown or forrest green or dark blue, while their cloth shirts are baggy and laced up their front... they probably often keep the laces loose.

 

The women also wear simple skirts with also baggy blouses (though the blouses probably do not show as much chest as the men's). Over the skirts the women probably wear large kerchiefs and many probably wear kerchiefs on their head too.

 

Basically, gypsies.

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Their ideal is nice, but won't work unless everyone decides to stop abusing others. As it is they are able to keep their peaceful ways only because they live in small communities. Probably why they stay away from cities. Their ideal is pleasant but I doubt it will ever be fulfilled.

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I have wondered how much the Way of the Leaf is influenced by Buddhism. Buddhism also espouses the idea that doing violence does more harm to the doer than the receiver and in its most extreme version argues that it is better to die than use violence to defend yourself. Also obviously both philosophies involve vegetarianism as doing harm to animals is a form of violence.

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Clothing? No particular style, i'd say, but probably comfortable (read loose) and bright. I just picture gypsies, the Iberean type, mostly.

 

@Sandoz12

Yes, Buddhism seems likely, though I think more of Jainism. Which of course developed in similar circumstances, but is much more extreme about the non-violence.

 

Btw, do the Tinkers eat meat? Is there any clear indication in the text that they do, because if not, i'd hold that they are vegetarian. As all Jains are supposed to, and orthodox Budddhists can be.

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Clothing? No particular style, i'd say, but probably comfortable (read loose) and bright. I just picture gypsies, the Iberean type, mostly.

 

@Sandoz12

Yes, Buddhism seems likely, though I think more of Jainism. Which of course developed in similar circumstances, but is much more extreme about the non-violence.

 

Btw, do the Tinkers eat meat? Is there any clear indication in the text that they do, because if not, i'd hold that they are vegetarian. As all Jains are supposed to, and orthodox Budddhists can be.

Yeah there is a mention in EOTW that all the food Perrin was eating didn't have meat and that he wished it had meat even though what they had tasted really well.

 

Re Jainism you could well be right I just don't know much about it whereas I know a bit about Buddhism since an ex-gf was Buddhist. Buddhism varies a lot depending on which sect - the Tibetan Buddhism (of which there are several varieties) she practised was very extreme about non-violence and also vegetarianism (obviously since the two kind of go hand in hand) - they would say that you should never do violence even if someone were going to take your life. Though they believed if you lived a non-violent life you wouldn't end up in that position.

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Clothing? No particular style, i'd say, but probably comfortable (read loose) and bright. I just picture gypsies, the Iberean type, mostly.

 

@Sandoz12

Yes, Buddhism seems likely, though I think more of Jainism. Which of course developed in similar circumstances, but is much more extreme about the non-violence.

 

Btw, do the Tinkers eat meat? Is there any clear indication in the text that they do, because if not, i'd hold that they are vegetarian. As all Jains are supposed to, and orthodox Budddhists can be.

Yeah there is a mention in EOTW that all the food Perrin was eating didn't have meat and that he wished it had meat even though what they had tasted really well.

 

Re Jainism you could well be right I just don't know much about it whereas I know a bit about Buddhism since an ex-gf was Buddhist. Buddhism varies a lot depending on which sect - the Tibetan Buddhism (of which there are several varieties) she practised was very extreme about non-violence and also vegetarianism (obviously since the two kind of go hand in hand) - they would say that you should never do violence even if someone were going to take your life. Though they believed if you lived a non-violent life you wouldn't end up in that position.

 

Ah good, it just wouldn't sit right with me if they ate meat.

 

Is there any clear influence apart from various Romani groups (and the non-violence bit) that people can identify in the Tinkers?

 

Regarding Jainism/Buddhism, well Buddhism is a lot larger than Jainism, so the variations. Simplistically speaking, Jainism is a lot more similar to Theravada Buddhism (which is the much more orthodox type).

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Clothing? No particular style, i'd say, but probably comfortable (read loose) and bright. I just picture gypsies, the Iberean type, mostly.

 

@Sandoz12

Yes, Buddhism seems likely, though I think more of Jainism. Which of course developed in similar circumstances, but is much more extreme about the non-violence.

 

Btw, do the Tinkers eat meat? Is there any clear indication in the text that they do, because if not, i'd hold that they are vegetarian. As all Jains are supposed to, and orthodox Budddhists can be.

Yeah there is a mention in EOTW that all the food Perrin was eating didn't have meat and that he wished it had meat even though what they had tasted really well.

 

Re Jainism you could well be right I just don't know much about it whereas I know a bit about Buddhism since an ex-gf was Buddhist. Buddhism varies a lot depending on which sect - the Tibetan Buddhism (of which there are several varieties) she practised was very extreme about non-violence and also vegetarianism (obviously since the two kind of go hand in hand) - they would say that you should never do violence even if someone were going to take your life. Though they believed if you lived a non-violent life you wouldn't end up in that position.

 

Ah good, it just wouldn't sit right with me if they ate meat.

 

Is there any clear influence apart from various Romani groups (and the non-violence bit) that people can identify in the Tinkers?

 

Regarding Jainism/Buddhism, well Buddhism is a lot larger than Jainism, so the variations. Simplistically speaking, Jainism is a lot more similar to Theravada Buddhism (which is the much more orthodox type).

 

Off to Wikipedia Jainism. Have you take a Religious Studies paper or just a particular interest in those religions? Though my ex would hate me calling Buddhism a religion she said it's a philosophy not a religion. In its pure form I agree with her but people have done a good job of turning a philosophy into a religion with their temples and gold Buddhas. Buddha himself would have hated the sight of it, in the same way as Jesus would be disgusted by extreme Christians using his name to kill and hate.

 

This is off topic but I do find it interesting how people take a wise man's saying and end up developing a religion which often contradicts the philosophy of its founder.

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Though my ex would hate me calling Buddhism a religion she said it's a philosophy not a religion.

 

There is no conflict between philosophy and religion. They are one and the same. People who describe their religion as a "philosophy" just don't like to admit that they're religious because religion is "bad" in modern society today.

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Though my ex would hate me calling Buddhism a religion she said it's a philosophy not a religion.

 

There is no conflict between philosophy and religion. They are one and the same. People who describe their religion as a "philosophy" just don't like to admit that they're religious because religion is "bad" in modern society today.

 

i dunno, while that might be true in part, i think a lot of people use it to imply different degrees of formlity/official structure. well i dunno, maybe in the west it's mostly because of what you said.

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Though my ex would hate me calling Buddhism a religion she said it's a philosophy not a religion.

 

There is no conflict between philosophy and religion. They are one and the same. People who describe their religion as a "philosophy" just don't like to admit that they're religious because religion is "bad" in modern society today.

 

I am neither religious nor in any way a philosopher, however religion and philosophy are not one and the same. Philosophy disagrees with religion for the simple reason that in religion the answers are given, whereas in philosophy you must search for them. That doesn't mean that the answers religion are wrong or that philosophy does not agree with them, after all who would argue that murder is not wrong, but philosophy does disagree with how those answers are obtained.

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Mmmm, Tinkers.

 

I would love them as individual people, they would be the nicest most caring sort you have ever met, and I think in 21st century 1st world suburbia they could possibly work.

 

But in the WoT where there are Shadowspawn about, its ridiculous. Foolish to the extreme.

 

I also have no respect for them either. I cant admire their ways, when they would not lift a hand to save their child's life.

 

So it is a mixed emtion for me, I think they would be lovely to have over for a meal, but I would not respect them, nor would I have them in times of hardship.

 

Some may call it bravery, and perhaps it is, but it is also idiocy. They are shutting out the realities of the world because they dont want to see the bad things in life. And when the bad things come along, they run from it.

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Philosophy disagrees with religion for the simple reason that in religion the answers are given, whereas in philosophy you must search for them.

 

That completely depends on which school of philosophy you subscribe to ;).

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Mmmm, Tinkers.

 

I would love them as individual people, they would be the nicest most caring sort you have ever met, and I think in 21st century 1st world suburbia they could possibly work.

 

But in the WoT where there are Shadowspawn about, its ridiculous. Foolish to the extreme.

 

I also have no respect for them either. I cant admire their ways, when they would not lift a hand to save their child's life.

 

So it is a mixed emtion for me, I think they would be lovely to have over for a meal, but I would not respect them, nor would I have them in times of hardship.

 

Some may call it bravery, and perhaps it is, but it is also idiocy. They are shutting out the realities of the world because they dont want to see the bad things in life. And when the bad things come along, they run from it.

Took the words out of my mouth.

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Though my ex would hate me calling Buddhism a religion she said it's a philosophy not a religion.

 

There is no conflict between philosophy and religion. They are one and the same. People who describe their religion as a "philosophy" just don't like to admit that they're religious because religion is "bad" in modern society today.

 

I think there is a big difference. I see a religion as a belief system whereas a philosophy as a framework for thinking. For example, in a religion person A will believe in the religion and follow it. Whereas with a philosophy person A will decide to follow it because a rational, logical argument has been put forth why you should follow it. Philosophy is built on logic, religion built on faith.

 

I am not saying that all religion is bad or all philosophy is good just pointing out what I see as the differences.

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There is no meaningful difference. Philosophy is built on absolute faith...in human reason. As such, it is fundamentally narcisistic, but in every other way virtually indistinguishable from a religion. Neither a philosophy nor a religion is objectively provable.

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I think total pacifism is extremely silly, not only in practice, but even as an idea, even in fiction.

 

If we knew more about why the AoL Aeil had their oath of total pacifism, and what circumstances early in the AoL gave rise to it, I might be able to appreciate it as a historical curiosity. Maybe the Wheel actually contrived strange enough circumstances that total pacifism was a good thing; the AoL was a utopia after all. The causes of total pacifism could be interesting, but the result is not. And the story only shows us the result and not the causes! So the Tinkers are a complete bore.

Edited by Morsker
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From Eye of World Chapter 25::

Their wagons were small houses on wheels, tall wooden boxes lacquered and painted in bright colors, reds and blues and yellows and greens and some hues to which he could not put a name. The Traveling People were going about work that was disappointingly everyday, cooking, sewing, tending children, mending harness, but their clothes were even more colorful than the wagons--and seemingly chosen at random; sometimes coat and breeches, or dress and shawl, went together in a way that hurt his eyes. They looked like butterflies in a field of wildflowers.
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I think total pacifism is extremely silly, not only in practice, but even as an idea, even in fiction.

 

If we knew more about why the AoL Aeil had their oath of total pacifism, and what circumstances early in the AoL gave rise to it, I might be able to appreciate it as a historical curiosity. Maybe the Wheel actually contrived strange enough circumstances that total pacifism was a good thing; the AoL was a utopia after all. The causes of total pacifism could be interesting, but the result is not. And the story only shows us the result and not the causes! So the Tinkers are a complete bore.

The thing is that in the majority of the AoL they had the luxury to keep that, with all the universal pacifism before the war of the shadow. As others have pointed out however, the remnants who stick to it in this time are kinda ...naive and / or idiotic.

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There is no meaningful difference. Philosophy is built on absolute faith...in human reason. As such, it is fundamentally narcisistic, but in every other way virtually indistinguishable from a religion. Neither a philosophy nor a religion is objectively provable.

You think logic is merely a matter of faith? You think the scientific method is no different to faith? I think both logic and the scientific method have done far more to advance humanity than any religion - but maybe that's just me.

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