Rand & his former lives & rambling

[WhiskyJack]

Does any of this even matter. There is a consensus here that basically everything is wheel's doing (even bad). So Rand doesn't remember his other past lives because wheel doesn't want him to remember it. And as for as sealing the bore goes (or defecting the DO), since it's all upto wheel, at the right moment Rand suddenly will know exactly what to do. Yay, victory. He is champion of light afterall and wheel will not allow any other result.

 

I see we have confused your idea of the Wheel and the Pattern, you seem to misunderstand the points.

 

I suggest looking up the Pattern in the BWB, or search for related threads.

 

here is a good place to start at least http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/52821-choice-and-the-pattern/page__p__1657115__hl__pattern+__fromsearch__1#entry1657115

 

may add more for you

 

Actually, this was tongue in cheek, based on tons of trolls here who say wheel is the shit, wheel is everything, wheel will do everything blah blah blah. Same people who claim that Rand's peeing cycle is controlled by wheel, try to justify this based on "other stuff".

[OptimusPrime]

Does any of this even matter. There is a consensus here that basically everything is wheel's doing (even bad). So Rand doesn't remember his other past lives because wheel doesn't want him to remember it. And as for as sealing the bore goes (or defecting the DO), since it's all upto wheel, at the right moment Rand suddenly will know exactly what to do. Yay, victory. He is champion of light afterall and wheel will not allow any other result.

 

I see we have confused your idea of the Wheel and the Pattern, you seem to misunderstand the points.

 

I suggest looking up the Pattern in the BWB, or search for related threads.

 

here is a good place to start at least http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/52821-choice-and-the-pattern/page__p__1657115__hl__pattern+__fromsearch__1#entry1657115

 

may add more for you

 

Actually, this was tongue in cheek, based on tons of trolls here who say wheel is the shit, wheel is everything, wheel will do everything blah blah blah. Same people who claim that Rand's peeing cycle is controlled by wheel, try to justify this based on "other stuff".

 

Hahaha! Come on, dont deny for a minute that Rands peeing cycle would just happen to land on the right plants to create a chemically flawless cure-all :laugh:

[SylvanFox]

What if Rand's purpose isn't to fight in any specific battle or to defeat any specific person (or entity) but is to figure out the solution provided by the Wheel for this turning. The Wheel has provided the tools: Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, Min, Moiraine, Aiel, etc. The Wheel has provided the clues: Prophecies, Dreams, Viewings, etc. Rand's task is to put it all together and utilize it before the Dark One can figure out the solution and stop it.

 

What if this is all a game between the Creator and the Dark One. The Wheel is like a blacksmith's puzzle for the Dark One, who seeks to solve the riddle and take it apart. But the Wheel is a dynamic puzzle, reorienting itself to prevent the Dark One from finding the solution. Afterall, for all the Dark One's supposedly immense power he seems rather constrained, as if bound by the rules of the game.

 

 

About it being a game, apparently Moridin thinks so. If Rand's task is to solve some kind of puzzle and then to do something... And seeing how much he has changed lately... Remember when Moridin was obviously thinking of Rand as the Fisher piece in HIS sha'rah game?

 

Does Rand resemble it at all anymore? He may have finally stepped outside of Moridin's board game, making himself a real challenge for the man as opposed to how he was before, when he was the Fisher. Now, of the two of them, Moridin bears a more striking resemblance to the blind, bleeding figure of the Fisher. Right about the time he has his little angry TP orgasm, he is giving this some serious thought:

 

The Fisher was always worked as a man, a bandage blinding his eyes and one hand pressed to his side, a few drops of blood dripping through his fingers. The reasons, like the source of the name, were lost in the mist of time. That troubled him sometimes, enraged him, what knowledge might be lost in the turnings of the Wheel, knowledge he needed, knowledge he had a right to. A right!

 

So maybe Moridin is the Fisher. In which case, I'm pretty sure steering him to the Light is going to be on Rand's to do list. Of course, even if he was the Fisher, and even if Rand knew how to play, there are three ways to win. The first one sounds like it's out. The third doesn't sound like a good idea either (it got Ishamael killed, at least), but the second path to victory is "to leave him no choice for the Fisher but to move onto your color." So maybe he will somehow force Moridin to logic his ass back into the Light (pretty sure Rand or Moridin or both will still be killed) and help him out with the sealing process. It's always been kind of weird how Moridin sees himself as somehow outside of the game, as if here were the DO (maybe some of his delusions will be healed like everyone else's?) instead of just a servant. Even though he sees serving the DO as logical, I don't think he likes to think of himself as a servant most of the time. Even when he calls on the DO for assistance, he doesn't say the Great Lord's Prayer or whatever, he yells out "Aid me!" It would probably give him another raging angry TP orgasm to realize that he had been toyed with just like everyone else.

 

Just some thoughts.

[DemandredFO]

Rand needs a Delorian and Christopher Lloyd

[Durinax]

I have a quick query, do you all remember back in the good old days when Rand transported everyone to Falme using a portal stone? (cue horn of valare, fain, ishy in the skys etc)

 

During the shift everyone lived a thousand possible lives since Rand kinda sucked at that point - well anyway i've always wondered why everyone (apparently) forgot these lives... I mean Rand remembered his first trip and a thousand lives worth of channeling knowledge sure would have been helpful for Rand...

 

Also, do you guys think that any of our heroes are ever spun out and then just kinda miss the plot train? (ie Rand never leaving and being a farmer forever)

just thoguht I would say in most of those lives he didnt learn how to really channel, he just chose a different path, and the madness killed him before he could learn

[Guest tracerhaha1]

My thought regarding what would be use to contact the D.O. as a buffer was the true source.

[perrin51]

My thought regarding what would be use to contact the D.O. as a buffer was the true source.

 

That is my thought exactly. Rand will use the TP through an unwitting and unwilling Moridin. This will buffer both halves of the OP to completely open the bore and recreate the Creator's prison. This is another reason that Moridin cannot be killed and why he is so closely linked to Rand. This option was not available in the AOL and therefore sets the premise for the thrid age.

 

Another thing to consider is that when the Bore was originally drilled by Merin and Co. at the Collam Dam, they used both halves of the OP to drill the Bore. Neither side was corrupted by drilling the Bore. This contrdicts the theory that both halves will be corrupted if the touch the DO directly.

[2RiversFan]

Another thing to consider is that when the Bore was originally drilled by Merin and Co. at the Collam Dam, they used both halves of the OP to drill the Bore. Neither side was corrupted by drilling the Bore. This contrdicts the theory that both halves will be corrupted if the touch the DO directly.

 

I don't necessarily agree with your reasoning on this point. Saidin was corrupted by an intentional 'counterstroke' by the dark one when LTT & companions tried to seal the bore. The D.O. wouldn't have had a reason to wish to corrupt both halves while Meirin and Beidoman were drilling into it, which one would expect would make him happy.

 

Personally, I'm leaning towards Fain/Mordeth having an unwitting part in the D.O.'s resealing.

 

We'll all find out later this year when Tor releases it...

[bbarrett90]

I think one thing that is interesting to remember about the dragon's death and rebirth for this age is the way in which he died. He was given his moment of sanity by Ishamael, and then killed himself by drawing too much of the OP, creating dragonmount. I dont recall it being explained how that happened, but could it be that at that moment he became one with the light, one with the pattern itself? If this is the case, maybe he actually couldnt be spun back into the pattern until someone came to the mountain and allowed passage of his soul back into a newborn body. Hence his prophesied rebirth on dragonmount. Really though i feel the manner of his rebirth is a minor detail, the interesting part to me is the idea of him becoming one with the pattern, and essentially the creator. It's like his soul was being preserved by the light.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think one thing that is interesting to remember about the dragon's death and rebirth for this age is the way in which he died. He was given his moment of sanity by Ishamael, and then killed himself by drawing too much of the OP, creating dragonmount. I dont recall it being explained how that happened, but could it be that at that moment he became one with the light, one with the pattern itself? If this is the case, maybe he actually couldnt be spun back into the pattern until someone came to the mountain and allowed passage of his soul back into a newborn body. Hence his prophesied rebirth on dragonmount. Really though i feel the manner of his rebirth is a minor detail, the interesting part to me is the idea of him becoming one with the pattern, and essentially the creator. It's like his soul was being preserved by the light.

 

Was Lews Therin Telamon actually given a moment of sanity by Ishamael, The Betrayer of Hope?

 

He was given enough clarity to see what we saw. He was told what supposedly had happened, just as we were. It seemed logical to him just as it did to us. But was it? This is a tale being told by Ishamael.

 

Whatever happened in his home before we enter the scene it's apparent that some of the bodies were killed when the flooring they were standing on became molten. Those bodies are now trapped in that resolidified rock.

 

Does anybody know how quickly rock can be cooled from a molten state to a solid state without shattering? I'd guess not very quickly.

 

It's also apparent that LTT is so shattered by what he sees that he is in total denial that it has happened. He inhabits some fantasy where everyone is just out-of-sight, around the next corner, or in the next room.

 

All that any of us can say for sure is - something terrible occurred, people died horribly at some unknown previous time, LTT is now there and in total shock, and Ishamael, a lying liar who lies, has an explanation that is sure to deeply wound his greatest adversary.

 

So, was it truth that Ishamael told him? Or a believable lie, supported by current appearances, rendered by his greatest enemy?

[Byzantine279]

It is quite possible that either occurred, as we know the taint appears similar to compulsion in some way, and it has a disastrous influence on someones mind, as has been amply clear.

 

I would argue it is irrelevant whether Ishamael told the truth or not, the only thing of importance was the result.

[FarShainMael]

What if the Dragonsoul never knew how to seal the Bore? In any Turning?

 

I take the points about Rand only remembering himself as LTT now, and losing the memories of that infinity of lives he recalled in VoG. But I think that he would have remembered significant events..

 

Consider how Moiraine recalled enough of her experiences in the Rhuidean rings to write those letters, one of which got her rescued. Likewise, if the Dragon had ever sealed the bore in any (and therefore all!) previous Turnings, that would have been something significant enough to stay with him after VoG. But it didn't... so the secret of how to repair the Pattern is either known to someone else; or is something that happens (perhaps when the three ta'veren become one!) without his knowing how exactly it happened.

[bbarrett90]

I think Moiraine was rescued because of her visit to the Eelfinn (or the Aelfinn, can never keep those 2 straight) through the arch in Tear. She asked them the questions and they told her what she had to do. But i see it similar to something that was mentioned earlier, of how Birgitte is slowly losing her memories. For Rand, a memory of ages past would be extremely hard to interpret, because the times are so completely different. Even if he did seal the bore at one point, i think it would be different every time.

 

My theory on how the bore is sealed has to do with Callandor, obviously. I see Callandor as more than just a sa'angreal. I think Callandor could be a way for the Dragon to communicate directly with the Creator. The problem with callandor when the male half was tainted was that the DO was able to interface with the sword just as the creator was meant to be able to do. Now that the taint is gone, Callandor is able to interface directly with the creator with no interference. I think that maybe rand doesnt have to do anything at all, and that there could be a divine intervention through Callandor, the true link to the true source.

[rane008]

I think Saidin and Saidar will have to be used to do it. (That seems to be Rand's opinion as well.) Since they would both be Tainted if they were to directly touch the Dark One, that leads me to believe that there need to be some sort of buffer. My best guess would be that Callandor has something to do with this. Although, after reading this topic, I am starting to lean towards a printed copy of the whole series doing the trick.

 

Ha! That is the most comical response I think I've ever seen on these boards.

[Orderofolde]

Rand remembers. That's an interesting idea. I've never really considered that Rand remembers how to fix the Bore because, well, what would be the point of the rest of the story? Also, he's still trying to figure things out. But what if...

 

What if the solution is not as easy as remembering what was done before. Afterall, while we speculate what Rand may remember, we know the Dark One remembers. The problem is not static. Rand cannot do the same thing over and over again as the Dark One can and will actively prevent it from happening.

 

What if Rand does (or did) remember exactly how the Last Battle was won each and every time but knows that the solution is never the same. We have evidence that Rand remembered all his past lives. We have evidence that Rand is still searching for a solution. This is consistent with Rand's behaviour in ToM. He generally knows what he has to do, but he's still trying to work out the specifics (re. Min).

 

What if Rand's purpose isn't to fight in any specific battle or to defeat any specific person (or entity) but is to figure out the solution provided by the Wheel for this turning. The Wheel has provided the tools: Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, Min, Moiraine, Aiel, etc. The Wheel has provided the clues: Prophecies, Dreams, Viewings, etc. Rand's task is to put it all together and utilize it before the Dark One can figure out the solution and stop it.

 

What if this is all a game between the Creator and the Dark One. The Wheel is like a blacksmith's puzzle for the Dark One, who seeks to solve the riddle and take it apart. But the Wheel is a dynamic puzzle, reorienting itself to prevent the Dark One from finding the solution. Afterall, for all the Dark One's supposedly immense power he seems rather constrained, as if bound by the rules of the game.

 

Well, there's my train of thoughts.

nice!

[Bob T Dwarf]

Rand remembers. That's an interesting idea. I've never really considered that Rand remembers how to fix the Bore because, well, what would be the point of the rest of the story? Also, he's still trying to figure things out. But what if...

 

What if the solution is not as easy as remembering what was done before. Afterall, while we speculate what Rand may remember, we know the Dark One remembers. The problem is not static. Rand cannot do the same thing over and over again as the Dark One can and will actively prevent it from happening.

 

What if Rand does (or did) remember exactly how the Last Battle was won each and every time but knows that the solution is never the same. We have evidence that Rand remembered all his past lives. We have evidence that Rand is still searching for a solution. This is consistent with Rand's behaviour in ToM. He generally knows what he has to do, but he's still trying to work out the specifics (re. Min).

 

What if Rand's purpose isn't to fight in any specific battle or to defeat any specific person (or entity) but is to figure out the solution provided by the Wheel for this turning. The Wheel has provided the tools: Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, Min, Moiraine, Aiel, etc. The Wheel has provided the clues: Prophecies, Dreams, Viewings, etc. Rand's task is to put it all together and utilize it before the Dark One can figure out the solution and stop it.

 

What if this is all a game between the Creator and the Dark One. The Wheel is like a blacksmith's puzzle for the Dark One, who seeks to solve the riddle and take it apart. But the Wheel is a dynamic puzzle, reorienting itself to prevent the Dark One from finding the solution. Afterall, for all the Dark One's supposedly immense power he seems rather constrained, as if bound by the rules of the game.

 

Well, there's my train of thoughts.

nice!

 

 

I agree. Nice. Logical even. That's probably why it isn't right. But, dang if that solution isn't well reasoned.