Warder Rage

[Smittyphi]

What would happen if an Aes Sedai drew upon too much OP and killed herself while the Warder was still alive. What would happen to the Warder as he can't seek vengeance on anyone in particular.

[randsc]

The Warder "rage" need not be directed at anyone in particular. Egwene hopes that the non-Darkfriend Warder of the Black Ajah she executes can be induced to go on their rampage in the Blight, for example. (That she isn't thinking about how to help them through that rage without dying, something she knows to be possible, is telling of her chracter, IMO. But that's another thread.)

[Kal11]

He would either die outright or just be a mess. The rage has nothing to do with vengeance itself, though it can certainly be directed that way, but with an effect of the bond being snapped violently. I don't know about you but there have been times in my life I have been depressed or murderously angry with nobody to direct it at.

[WoTMegaFan_007]

Obviously they would kill the one power.... or die trying. I think the main point is that they seek out death when their Aes Sedai dies.

[Muad Cheade]

What would happen if an Aes Sedai drew upon too much OP and killed herself while the Warder was still alive. What would happen to the Warder as he can't seek vengeance on anyone in particular.

They just feel rage in general. They can seek death in general or focus on a particular thing/group/person.

 

Egwene hopes that the non-Darkfriend Warder of the Black Ajah she executes can be induced to go on their rampage in the Blight, for example. (That she isn't thinking about how to help them through that rage without dying, something she knows to be possible, is telling of her chracter, IMO. But that's another thread.)

If I recall correctly, she wanted to redirect their rage against the Shadow in order to give their lives purpose instead of them seeking a meaningless death. As Perrin said, every man is needed for Tarmon Gai'don. Also, the only rehabilitation from the Warder-rage we've seen involves having sex (i.e. Lan and Myrelle) so I'm pretty sure Egwene wouldn't really consider that an option. Your objectivity is noted though.

[randsc]

What would happen if an Aes Sedai drew upon too much OP and killed herself while the Warder was still alive. What would happen to the Warder as he can't seek vengeance on anyone in particular.

They just feel rage in general. They can seek death in general or focus on a particular thing/group/person.

 

Egwene hopes that the non-Darkfriend Warder of the Black Ajah she executes can be induced to go on their rampage in the Blight, for example. (That she isn't thinking about how to help them through that rage without dying, something she knows to be possible, is telling of her chracter, IMO. But that's another thread.)

If I recall correctly, she wanted to redirect their rage against the Shadow in order to give their lives purpose instead of them seeking a meaningless death. As Perrin said, every man is needed for Tarmon Gai'don. Also, the only rehabilitation from the Warder-rage we've seen involves having sex (i.e. Lan and Myrelle) so I'm pretty sure Egwene wouldn't really consider that an option. Your objectivity is noted though.

 

Well you do not, in fact, recall correctly. Your faulty memory is noted though.

[Mordaunt]

Give them all to Myrelle - she'd love it.

[randsc]

She might. But it isn't necessary, Maud Cheade's faulty memory notwithstanding. The process is explained in ACoS, Chapter 12. The Warder must be re-bonded, worked hard physically, and kept from risk. Only "some" sisters believe that the sex part is necessary, and the text is clear that that sex need not necessarily be with the Aes Sedai.

 

Seriously, does anyone have a good reason why it would not even occur to Egwene to try?

[WoTMegaFan_007]

Look, it's not complicated. If the warder's old lady dies... they get all emo and seek out death unless someone fixes them. It's not easy to fix an emo though. Simple concept to grasp.

[randsc]

True, it's not easy. And true, if it fails, the Aes Sedai has some emo issues of her own to deal with. But she's not dead. The least the witches owe their Warders is a honest attempt to keep them alive.

[Muad Cheade]

Well you do not, in fact, recall correctly. Your faulty memory is noted though.

Oh, I was mistaken about Egwene's reasoning regarding the Warders?

 

Give them all to Myrelle - she'd love it.

She is a Green after all.

 

She might. But it isn't necessary, Maud Cheade's faulty memory notwithstanding. The process is explained in ACoS, Chapter 12. The Warder must be re-bonded, worked hard physically, and kept from risk. Only "some" sisters believe that the sex part is necessary, and the text is clear that that sex need not necessarily be with the Aes Sedai.

 

Seriously, does anyone have a good reason why it would not even occur to Egwene to try?

In the three cases re-bonding has been explicily mentioned (Avar, Nuhel, and Lan), relations were implied to have been used. Yes, it is possible to do so without Myrelle's method but if I recall correctly, she says it would take months and even then it is not a guarantee. Tarmon Gai'don has already started. It is unlikely they even have weeks.

 

True, it's not easy. And true, if it fails, the Aes Sedai has some emo issues of her own to deal with. But she's not dead. The least the witches owe their Warders is a honest attempt to keep them alive.

It is not easy trying to help a very dangerous man who wants to die, especially with Tarmon Gai'don occurring. The fact that the Warders are still alive is testament to the Aes Sedais' attempts.

[Eichhörnchen]

Send them to a whorehouse. The answer can't be that hard.

[David Selig]

There is no prostitution in Randland. Yeah, I know it sounds implausible, but that's what RJ said.

[Eichhörnchen]

There is no prostitution in Randland. Yeah, I know it sounds implausible, but that's what RJ said.

 

 

Where there are human beings there is prostitution. It's a fundamental law of nature, even other animals follow a more base form of prostitution. Considering the famine and refugee situations in much of Randland at the moment there is now more prostitution than ever.

 

If there is no prostitution in Randland, then we must assume that we are not speaking of human beings inhabiting that reality.

[Mordaunt]

I think that was RJ's episcopalian side emerging. There were hookers, they just kept it quiet from him. What do you think happened at Easing the Badger in Illian? Or the Tinker girls that danced for Perrin in EoTW - you think they bake bread from foraging?

[rand4747]

there are those that are "easy" they just don't take money from it.

[bsmnt23]

the reason she didnt even try to rehab the warders is very simple. There is no way to test them to find if they were darkfriends, too. The only thing that could be certain was that they were Warders and they would suffer the rage after their (proven) Black Aes Sedai were executed. Egwene didnt want to execute the warders outright on the off chance that they were unwitting accomplices and not darkfriends themselves, wich is just damned decent of her considereing what a darkfriend Warder could be capible of. She also couldnt take the chance that rehabing them by giving them to another Aes Sedai would be saddling someone with a truly badass Darkfriend to have to put their lives in their hands. Giving them the benifit of the doubt and sending them to the Blight would give their deaths meaning and maybe take out a few fists of trolocs, to boot.

[Ogrelin]

Another thought, are they even Warders after their AeS Sedai is dead? or are they just ordinary men?

[Zentari]

the reason she didnt even try to rehab the warders is very simple. There is no way to test them to find if they were darkfriends, too. The only thing that could be certain was that they were Warders and they would suffer the rage after their (proven) Black Aes Sedai were executed. Egwene didnt want to execute the warders outright on the off chance that they were unwitting accomplices and not darkfriends themselves, wich is just damned decent of her considereing what a darkfriend Warder could be capible of. She also couldnt take the chance that rehabing them by giving them to another Aes Sedai would be saddling someone with a truly badass Darkfriend to have to put their lives in their hands. Giving them the benifit of the doubt and sending them to the Blight would give their deaths meaning and maybe take out a few fists of trolocs, to boot.

So she's damn nice for not executing them on a suspicion that they might be DF ? That's one heck of a way to think.

[bsmnt23]

the reason she didnt even try to rehab the warders is very simple. There is no way to test them to find if they were darkfriends, too. The only thing that could be certain was that they were Warders and they would suffer the rage after their (proven) Black Aes Sedai were executed. Egwene didnt want to execute the warders outright on the off chance that they were unwitting accomplices and not darkfriends themselves, wich is just damned decent of her considereing what a darkfriend Warder could be capible of. She also couldnt take the chance that rehabing them by giving them to another Aes Sedai would be saddling someone with a truly badass Darkfriend to have to put their lives in their hands. Giving them the benifit of the doubt and sending them to the Blight would give their deaths meaning and maybe take out a few fists of trolocs, to boot.

So she's damn nice for not executing them on a suspicion that they might be DF ? That's one heck of a way to think.

 

Darn tootin this was an unmitigated act of mercy. It's a good bet that these warders that been bonded with the Black Aes Sedai were, in fact, darkfriends themselves. Egwene coming down on the side of "innocent till proven guilty" is her perogitave as Amrylin, she would be well within her rights to execute them all quite handedly, thats how societies like this work. Dont be confused by our own very very soft legal system, Randland has no ACLU, and at this point in the story with the Last Battle just over the hill Egwene had to make a choice that could--possibly--condemn a few inocent men to death but woud definatly eliminate a potential very lethal threat of a force of raged-out darkfriend warders wandering arround. Send them to the blight, let them take it out on a pack of Jumera, problem solved.

[Zentari]

Darn tootin this was an unmitigated act of mercy. It's a good bet that these warders that been bonded with the Black Aes Sedai were, in fact, darkfriends themselves. Egwene coming down on the side of "innocent till proven guilty" is her perogitave as Amrylin, she would be well within her rights to execute them all quite handedly, thats how societies like this work. Dont be confused by our own very very soft legal system, Randland has no ACLU, and at this point in the story with the Last Battle just over the hill Egwene had to make a choice that could--possibly--condemn a few inocent men to death but woud definatly eliminate a potential very lethal threat of a force of raged-out darkfriend warders wandering arround. Send them to the blight, let them take it out on a pack of Jumera, problem solved.

You are mixing things up.I do not question her rights , only her morals and while morals are subjective I can't help but find it a little harsh.

[bsmnt23]

Darn tootin this was an unmitigated act of mercy. It's a good bet that these warders that been bonded with the Black Aes Sedai were, in fact, darkfriends themselves. Egwene coming down on the side of "innocent till proven guilty" is her perogitave as Amrylin, she would be well within her rights to execute them all quite handedly, thats how societies like this work. Dont be confused by our own very very soft legal system, Randland has no ACLU, and at this point in the story with the Last Battle just over the hill Egwene had to make a choice that could--possibly--condemn a few inocent men to death but woud definatly eliminate a potential very lethal threat of a force of raged-out darkfriend warders wandering arround. Send them to the blight, let them take it out on a pack of Jumera, problem solved.

You are mixing things up.I do not question her rights , only her morals and while morals are subjective I can't help but find it a little harsh.

 

It was a harsh decision, but thats the thing about being a leader; you have to be the one to make the harsh decisions. She the Amrylin, she's the Boss. The Buck stops with her.

[randsc]

the reason she didnt even try to rehab the warders is very simple. There is no way to test them to find if they were darkfriends, too. The only thing that could be certain was that they were Warders and they would suffer the rage after their (proven) Black Aes Sedai were executed. Egwene didnt want to execute the warders outright on the off chance that they were unwitting accomplices and not darkfriends themselves, wich is just damned decent of her considereing what a darkfriend Warder could be capible of. She also couldnt take the chance that rehabing them by giving them to another Aes Sedai would be saddling someone with a truly badass Darkfriend to have to put their lives in their hands. Giving them the benifit of the doubt and sending them to the Blight would give their deaths meaning and maybe take out a few fists of trolocs, to boot.

 

That's a nice theory, unsupported by the text. Egwene's thoughts are clear; she intends to sort out the Darkfriends and send the rest to die in the Blight.