To live you must Die...(a possible ending)

[StringWinder]

Haven't been around for a while so its good to be back.

 

While i've been gone I've had a lot of time to think, and was thinking about the answer to his question in finnland about surviving TG.

 

This has probably been brought up before, especially cause after I thought of it it seemed so obvious, but i haven't yet seen it on this board.

 

 

I was thinking the Horn might be used to keep him alive.

 

Suppose Rand is sealing the bore, and the DO touches him, or he loses the net of light protection on his brain just before he seals the bore. So he comes out nuts, totally bonkers and causes some mayhem before the AS get a shield on him.

 

Or perhaps he body swaps with moridin, (and this would probably only work if someone else knew he would or finds out damned fast) who's brain has been twisted from TP use.

 

During the fight Birgitte has died. and they want to gentle Rand. Birgette comes back as horn bound, or maybe someone, prolly elayne, goes to TAR and finds her, and knows she is still bound to the horn.

 

She goes back, and tells Alivia, that they cant gentle him and wait for him to die, Alivia must kill him. She does.

 

Elayne goes to TAR, find Rand, as a horn bound hero, is ripped out by one of his girlies birgitte style, bonded, and lives.

 

(if this belongs somewhere else let me know. or move it. or something. heh.)

[Sleeper]

I'm cool with any theory as long as it's not the bodyswap one. I detest that theory.

 

Anyway, your idea about him getting ripped out of T'A'R is a pretty big one around here, and I like it quite a bit, although the general consensus is that it'd probably be Nynaeve who does the ripping.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, it is definitely a popular theory, I am partial to it myself. Much more so than the Bodyswap. I never liked it either.

 

The only think I dont like about your version is Rand going mad again and Aes Sedai wanting to gentle him.

 

Rand has had enough of the maddness and people hating him/wanting to gentle him. He is finally on the right path and better than any modern AS can be.

 

To rip it all away would just be stupid. The world needs equality between male and female channelers. Not Rand being gentled. (ps. I know your only throwing out possibilities, im just sayin, i would be annoyed)

[StringWinder]

Well I was just trying to think of why he would need help dying...if he comes out not a threat to anyone...and if he did bodyswap, well it seems the madness is a physical thing, or bodily attachment. I'm not a fan of the bodyswap, but think that it may happen (i hope not but we'll see) and if that did happen he'd be all loaded with saa and prolly pretty crazy

 

Anyhow if comes out sane and alive he can be told the plan and kill him self, he wouldn't need help. Although he might not want to kill himself, without outside help he easily could, and all the prophecy of the necessity of outside influence would not be needed

[Agitel]

I'm leaning towards a body merge, similar to Luc and Isam. I mean, there's really no point to having them unless to foreshadow something?

 

We've seen that both Rand and Moridin's souls and bodies are now connected. Moridin's soul is tied to the dark one, and Rand was able to use that link to channel the True Power. Rand loses his hand, and Moridin now can't feel his hand. The Pattern's connecting them as one person to explain the paradox. Perhaps if one of them were to die, the soul wouldn't pass on as it normally should, but become permanently tied (rather than split) into the other's body, and thus have another Luc/Isam type character.

 

Maybe even the prophecies view them as one person since their merge. If Moridin dies, or has his blood spilt on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, would the pattern read that as Rand's blood at this point, given their connection? Or if Rand were to die, would him and Moridin wrestle with the same body.

 

Moridin seems less convinced of himself, now. He's more of a fatalist, resigned to what he's committed himself to. Perhaps he would essentially retreat, or give up fighting for the Shadow -- if Rand were to succeed in healing the Bore but loses his body -- and let Rand dominate.

 

To me it makes more sense than an all out swap, and perhaps Luc/Isam is a bit of foreshadowing for that.

[Tom Sawyer]

I always took that quote to mean that if he's willing to die to save the world, he'll be able to come back in his next life as opposed to the Wheel being destroyed and his being dead forever, not that he'd find some way to survive the Last Battle. Given that the entire series has been building up to his sacrificing himself for victory over the DO, I would find it particularly lame if they wrote in some way for him to call a mulligan on that and live happily ever after.

[tkroll]

Is there a chance it might not be a "literal" death?

 

Maybe just a stilling? Or he "dies" to something else or someone else maybe? We know Aveindha will have four of Rand's kids. As far as we know she isn't pregnant. A lot of the Rand's death prophecies and foreshadowy dreams could easily be misinterpreted. Has Min had a vision anywhere where she sees Rand die? I know about the boat with Rand and three women on it, and Logain stepping over what looked like Rand's body (might not be Rand, maybe Taim used the power to look like Rand and Logain blows him away).

 

Rand has also been corrected many times about taking prophecies too literally.

[idiostock]

How do any of the theories tie in to "Twice dawns the day he dies"

[Gathering Storman Norman]

Just after dawn Moridin kills Rand then Logain (or someone else) balefires the heck out of Moridin. The sun rises again with Rand alive.

 

No, not a theory just throwing something out there that fits that quote.

[idiostock]

Just after dawn Moridin kills Rand then Logain (or someone else) balefires the heck out of Moridin. The sun rises again with Rand alive.

 

No, not a theory just throwing something out there that fits that quote.

 

Except the day doesn't dawn twice, he just stops being dead.

[Mandro]

I am of the harry potter school myself.

 

Rand becomes an avatar posessed by the darkone, and his death marks the death of the Dark One, but then Nynaeve heals him and returns him to life.

 

A lot of people have died in the series only to still be alive (including asmodean) and I think more than just mat without the use of balefire.

 

Mentioning mat, how many times did he die? Rhuidean, Caemlyn, and I guess technically you can say during the direwolf attack.

 

[edit: typoed "die"]

[Mr Ares]

I am of the harry potter school myself.

Hogwarts?

 

Mentioning mat, how many times did he die? Rhuidean, Caemlyn, and I guess technically you can say during the direwolf attack.

In Rhuidean, he was only nearly dead.

[FarShainMael]

How do any of the theories tie in to "Twice dawns the day he dies"

 

Can I just point out that the prophecy actually reads as follows

 

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth."

 

Shedding blood doesn't necessarily equate to dying. The 'mourning' may be for others who have died, in the fighting perhaps, rather than thr DR himself.

[Gathering Storman Norman]

I am of the harry potter school myself.

You know how to make an insane amount of money by making incredibly boring movies.

 

(i can't talk bad about the books because I have never read them and never will)

[Sbond91]

Isn't one of Rand's titles 'Lord of the Morning' and 'Prince of the Dawn' - need it be a literal dawn that comes twice, or Rand? Or is "twice dawns" some metaphorical reference to the importance of the Moridin link? I find it hard to believe the sun will actually rise twice.

[FarShainMael]

Isn't one of Rand's titles 'Lord of the Morning' and 'Prince of the Dawn' - need it be a literal dawn that comes twice, or Rand? Or is "twice dawns" some metaphorical reference to the importance of the Moridin link? I find it hard to believe the sun will actually rise twice.

 

We've already seen three examples of 'recycled time'. One is at Hinderstap. Then there's the interesting point that Fain may be able to do a rerun, if the incident in Far Madding with Gedwyn and Torval wasn't an illusion (WH33). The third is much earlier in the series, Fain's trap in the village in TGH10 - the one with the flies, and the Fade nailed to a door.

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/tgh/ch10.html

[Rcurran]

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth."

 

This quote, in my opinion, is not directly related to the thread topic. On the other hand it could be, we don't know. This is just a prophesy and the topic is what the fins said.

 

Having said that I always assumed this to mean that Elayne would give birth on the same day Rand sheds blood at SG. From a readers point of view this would go along the lines of: chapter 1 The sun is rising at SG and Rand is doing some important stuff, oh dear his blood spilt. Chapter 2 Dawn rises over the Sun Palace and "oh dear, said Elayne, my waters broken."

 

Don't think her babies have had enough time in the oven yet though so no longer know if this is possible.

 

As for time differences there is a scene when Moridon or Demandred travels to SG and there is noticeable time differences but I'm not sure where the Sun rises in Ramd Land. I suppose it doesn't matter anyway as the prophesy does not state the order of the events.

 

As for eclipses and things I don't think that can really be aid to be twice dawning.