Wheel of Time Mafia Game Thread

[Moon Sedai]

Red, your logic is impeccable.

 

Vote Mynd

[DrewRiley]

Sorry that post was prematurely sent. I wasn't exactly the most gifted child.

 

Red, I'm just kind of thinking out loud with the associational stuff. But after hearing you guys talk about it, Nae in particular, scum could easily target themselves to be voted by compulsion, so it doesn't necessarily mean anything. What I was trying to say is that if there were a reason to trust verbal 100% (I don't see a reason right now, but if one were to occur), then it's reasonable to trust Aemon as well, given that the mafia were unlikely to know for sure that having someone try to lynch Aemon wouldn't result in an Aemon lynch. Does that make sense? I think it's an important point.

 

Again, I'm not trusting ANYONE right now, but it would be nice to be able to have a group of people to trust at some point, so I'm just trying to set the groundwork for that.

[Aust]

 

..., but she had actually asked for who targeted Aemon but was mistakenly given the names of those who targeted Red by accident. If this were true she shouldn't have gotten my name because as I

 

Sorry I did get called away suddenly and I hit post by mistake (I'm on my phone). but just to finish that thought, she shouldn't have gotten my name because I targeted Aemon.

 

Mynd can you provide the link to the post where Aemon suggested that Verbal hadn't checked his mail? If you can't find it don't worry - I have to go back and reread yesterday but if you have it handy that would be helpful.

[alannalynn]

Yeah, I'm wondering how this would clear Mynd and also, are we just going to lynch ANYONE who displays some odd activity that is due to control in one way or another? In THAT case, let's lynch everyone who is silenced, everyone who is compelled, AND, if one person flips innocent/scum, the other MUST be the opposite alignment.

 

/end sarcasm

 

 

I get where you're coming from Mynd, but then again, I don't. First you say lynch Verbal then Aemon? Which IS it?

 

Not voting for now, that just leads to a bandwagon and less talk.

[Quibby]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the scum were going to do a Compulsion ploy, wouldn't they start out as acting the Compulsion, as they'd have discussed it beforehand? Yet, Verbal voted for Mynd before suddenly switching to Aemon. That reads more to me like Verbal missed the PM, then was poked by the Lord Our Mod to correct. This doesn't clear Aemon by any stretch, as I have a hard time thinking that the scum would think that we'd all pile onto an Aemon vote based off Verbal's "arguments." It could instead be used as a smokescreen to make Aemon appear innocent. In that, I- and I can't believe that I'm about to say this- I can kinda see where Mynd's argument is coming from. I don't agree with lynching Verbal, as was suggested, in order to absolve or damn Aemon, though, as his actions read more like a townie mistake than a scum ploy.

[Verbal32]

At this point, Mynd, I hope you're not still going for the 'lynch A to clear B' plan. That only works with Cop viewings (sometimes) or something mod confirmed. It certainly doesn't work in this instance. I'm surprised at your insistence here. Others have responded to you, and you're still thinking your plan would work?

 

You're a hard one to pinpoint, Mynd. If you're scum, then good work and we need to kill you. If you're town, then stop helping scum and focus. I agreed with several of your posts over the last few days, but you're starting to fire blindly from the hip.....and it's going to get you lynched.

[bgrishinko]

As BG thought about Red's arguments about Mynd, he felt more and more convinced of Mynd's overall scumminess. Too much about what he said didn't add up. Also, as BG listened to the arguments being thrown about, Aemon's name continued to be brought up. It does seem probable that the darkfriends would compel an innocent to vote for a darkfriend as a form of deceit and therefore command Aemon to vote Mynd. The naive would automatically assume the target to be innocent, therefore assume Mynd's innocence. But BG was not convinced, for he had obtained information that may prove Aemon's innocence and makes Mynd's insistence to lynch the compulsed all the more scummy.

 

BG had debated when to share this information, but now feels that it can only help the town to reveal what he had uncovered. As the last night's dawn came and Perrin was found dead, few were nearby when the deed was committed. Bgrishinko just happened to be wandering by when he came upon Perrin's body. In the hopes of preventing Darkfriends from looting the precious items that Perrin may have had, BG decided to do it first.

 

Upon Song/Perrin's body, BG found the one and only Vora Sa'angreal. Bgrishinko reminded the town of what had happend previously with this item. Aemon had stolen this item during Night 1. He came forth and talked about it openly explaining it's purpose and uses. Because the Sa'angreal was useless to Aemon he told the town that he was planning on gifting it to someone else that he believed to be innocent and could make good use of it. As he lifted the Sa'angreal, he realized that Aemon must have gifted the item to Perrin. If Aemon were Scum, he would have never gifted this particular item to Song as an innocent.

 

Bgrishinko submitted his proof to the town and hoped that it would be sufficent.

 

As for Mynd, Bgrishinko was indeed suspicious. He decided that despite his continued distrust of blackhoof, Mynd's comments threw themselves to front of his suspicious list and therefore was compelled to UNVOTE and VOTE: MYND

[bgrishinko]

Bgrishinko also wanted to apologize for his continued switching between Perrin and Song's names in his post. He will make a better effort to be consistent with the group and his storytelling in the future.

[Verbal32]

Good post, bg. That clears some stuff up for me.

[Locke]

Had to think about that a bit to understand as my memory was all jumbled over the Vora and the item Red had.

 

But anyway, that plus what others have said about Mynd today plus my points from the previous night make me reasonably confident in Voting Mynd.

[Myndrunner]

Let's please slow this bandwagon down for a moment. If as we get closer to deadline, you still wish to lynch me, then so be it. I will say that I am the sort of chap that can put the brakes on the desires of the Dark One, so with our assets diminishing, there is value in keeping me around.

 

To be clear: If you disagree with my logic, don't vote with me; but voting for me because you disagree with my logic is quite flawed.

 

Having said that, I don't mind if you vote me because there is evidence that I am scum. Voting for me because I look suspicious when there are facts that point to the contrary is a grave mistake. Allow me to address everyone individually...

 

I don't think either of their deaths would prove your innocence one way or another. A smart scum would choose themselves to try to do exactly what you are trying to do. Namely.. clear themselves.

Absolutely, which is what I was hoping someone would point out. This is exactly what Verbal and Aemon could be doing as well. We would assume Verbal and Aemon are innocent because they appear to have been targeted by compulsion. You are right, even if Verbal is innocent, it doesn't clear Aemon, but it does prove that such a compulsion is in play.

 

[/b][/color]you're sounding to much liek your trying to lead the town imo and i'm not liking it; because of the decision your trying to lead them to make.

 

Huh?

 

I'm in class right now, allow me to continue in a few minutes...

[mcs0083]

I'm willing to stay your execution for now Mynd. Because at this time your lead accuser makes no sense at all

 

and with post #1146

 

VOTE: MYND

 

 

you're sounding to much liek your trying to lead the town imo and i'm not liking it; because of the decision your trying to lead them to make.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a post that could be so hypocritical and make no sense at the same time. But I'm watching you Mynd. Like a hawk.

[Locke]

I don't get it. Red says she doesn't like it that Mynd is trying to lead us to lynch Aemon/Verbal. What am I missing?

[DrewRiley]

I'm willing to stay your execution for now Mynd. Because at this time your lead accuser makes no sense at all

 

and with post #1146

 

VOTE: MYND

 

 

you're sounding to much liek your trying to lead the town imo and i'm not liking it; because of the decision your trying to lead them to make.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a post that could be so hypocritical and make no sense at the same time. But I'm watching you Mynd. Like a hawk.

 

Voting for someone and giving a reason for it is a LOT different from what Mynd was doing. I'm not convinced of the Mynd lynch either, but I certainly don't blame Red for making a decision.

[bgrishinko]

I'm willing to stay your execution for now Mynd. Because at this time your lead accuser makes no sense at all

 

and with post #1146

 

VOTE: MYND

 

 

you're sounding to much liek your trying to lead the town imo and i'm not liking it; because of the decision your trying to lead them to make.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a post that could be so hypocritical and make no sense at the same time. But I'm watching you Mynd. Like a hawk.

 

Bgrishinko read this comment and the one before it in which Mynd also expressed confusion... and became confused himself at the backlash against Red's vote. He thought the post made lots of sense and couldn't see the hypocritical nature of it. BG had believed that Red was simply re-affirming the fact that Mynd was acting suspicious as he had stated in previous posts (in blue) and that post #1146, which was probably posted while he was writing his last one, solidified his mistrust. Red's arguments were well laid out in the post immediately before the poorly typed quoted post. Bgrishinko thought that a good argument against Red would necessarily go against the actual points that Red made in his previous post.

[Quibby]

I think mcs is referring to Red's loud decrying of Aemon as a False Dragon on Day 1, which caused her to vote for him initially if memory serves. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

*wanders off, mumbling about opera in 17th Century Venice and holding his head in his hands*

[bgrishinko]

It had been two days since the great outcry against Aemon when he had proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn, a dangerous claim. Both Red and Bgrishinko had been suspicious of Aemon in loud and outspoken ways. While Bgrishinko has changed his tune in light of more recent events, he couldn't recall Red's current opinions of Aemon and he would love to hear Red on the supposed Dragon Reborn.

[Vambram]

 

 

 

In my mind, us players lynched a couple of characters whom we would rather not have been lynched. Clearly, we did this in our zeal to have a controlled lynching. I propose that everyone be much more careful about lynchings from here on out.

 

*raises eyebrow* so your regreatful for us lynching Be'lal are you? because us players have only lynched 2 people so far, only 1 has ended up as innocent. thats pretty good odds if you ask me, especially in a game this big.

 

FOS @ Vam

 

 

 

 

Geez, there have been over 50 pages of this thread and I lost track of whats been done and when its been done. You are right. There have been only two lynches. In my mind, I got confused with the NK's and stupidly added them into the same mix as the lynches. I apologise for an inaccurate post and I hope my explanation clears me from the FOS and also from the votes to have myself lynched.

[keyholder21]

Dude, suck! PERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIN (yelled like “Stella” in A Streetcar named Desire)

 

I so have to try and sneak on at work because otherwise I end up with five pages of stuff to sort through. Apologies yet again for the long post. I suppose I should just do a blanket apology for this because getting on once a day after work seems to be all I can do *laughs*.

 

If Verbal was indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Aemon, for the time being. If Aemon is indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Mynd. So if we trust Verbal, then we're trusting Aemon and Mynd as well, which gives us a pretty good cohort. Likewise, if we don't trust Verbal, we probably should not trust Aemon or Mynd. I don't know which way to swing with this. Verbal, what were the stipulations exactly of your compulsion? Simply to vote Aemon, or to try to convince others, or to post so many times, or what?

Erm... I don't see how Aemon being compulsed clears Mynd. I can see how it -might- clear Verbal kinda, although if the Forsaken are working on their own, he might be mafia and Compulsed anyway.

 

We're also playing with fire to believe Aust was silenced the whole night. I wonder if he would have been so quiet if the lynch had started mounting for him? And not that I'm asking for a full revelation, but we got an idea of why the other four people targeted Aemon, so, Aust, why did you target Aemon? Hints, etc?

 

Why -wouldn't- we believe it? Yeah, the lynch didn't mount on him, but people did start asking why he hadn't posted. Why would he let that go on if he could post? Also, he'd been extremely active in the game up until that point, so did he just suddenly not feel like posting? I think it makes more sense to believe that he was silenced for the whole cycle. Not that I'm completely sure, as this is mafia, but I'm not super suspicious about that just yet.

 

I haven't sensed a cult yet, but it's only been two days, so anything's possible. All 13 Forsaken, with different abilities for each, would make this a really difficult game, even if we got lucky with the first lynch.

Do you normally sense a cult? I've never played a game that had a cult in it before. I have to agree with Verbal about the 13 Forsaken probably being in the game. I mean, Be'lal wasn't exactly the most exciting FS and he was here, so why include him if they aren't all here?

 

If Be'lal was in the game, then it stands to reason that most, if not all, Chosen are in this game.

 

Freudian slip?

 

It does not clear Mynd. It doesn't even clear me (or Aemon). My command was to vote Aemon - that was it. No reasons to be given - just to not say I'm being compulsed.

 

Were you compulsed during the night? It would be very risky of scum to compel you to vote Aemon if he were scum, you know? It would have been a smart move if you were compulsed once the lynch on Player had already gained momentum, but I'm assuming you were compulsed at night, and given that there was some suspicion on Aemon already, I think it's reasonable to assume that you and Aemon are in the same camp.

 

Why do you think they are in the same camp Drew? All I see is reason to think that they aren't – that either the scum are gunning for Aemon, or he is scum and they are trying to clear his name by making him the target of compulsed votes. Seeing as he has Compulsion for the day, however, I doubt it's the latter. Seems more like they are making a voter choose someone who is really active in the game, which could potentially be bad for town.

 

No, for trashing any healers/docs we have. By doing that, it can subtley make those people come defend themselves, which in turn can give the mafia targets for figuring them out. Putting criticism on the healers/docs for Song's death is counterproductive to what we're trying to do. Mynd should know that, so I'm FOSing him as a result.

 

I totally didn't even think of that.

 

Upon Song/Perrin's body, BG found the one and only Vora Sa'angreal. Bgrishinko reminded the town of what had happend previously with this item. Aemon had stolen this item during Night 1. He came forth and talked about it openly explaining it's purpose and uses. Because the Sa'angreal was useless to Aemon he told the town that he was planning on gifting it to someone else that he believed to be innocent and could make good use of it. As he lifted the Sa'angreal, he realized that Aemon must have gifted the item to Perrin. If Aemon were Scum, he would have never gifted this particular item to Song as an innocent.

 

Makes sense and goes a long way toward ensuring that Aemon isn't scummy. He might not be tDR, but that puts him in the 'town' False Dragon camp for me.

 

I think mcs is referring to Red's loud decrying of Aemon as a False Dragon on Day 1, which caused her to vote for him initially if memory serves. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Probably, but there have been many many posts since then and a lot of information revealed regarding Aemon. I think it's fair that she could have changed her mind. Moreover, even if she still is suspicious of Aemon, pushing town to lynch a claimed Dragon (and finder, iirc) is not a good move imho. We have other people that are acting more scummy and thus her attention and vote is on them instead of Aemon. I don't see how that's hypocritical. You can be suspicious of more than one person (as well we all should be) at a time.

[dapianoplay3r]

So much has happened it seems.

Mynd is just being really weird. I started reading and was ready to do all sorts of FOS on him but is seems in the 4/5 pages I read through, they all got pretty covered.

But I dont think im ready to vote for him yet. I agreed with the names Red put out there though (I cant seem to find the post but it had Blackhoof and the such in it)

I want to hear more from mynd first but he is higher on my list of who to vote for than any of what Red put out. If Mynd does change my mind then ill start on Red's list.

 

Also someone mentioned Mynd'd reference to a lynch/vig kill. What struck me when I read that was maybe he wasnt hinting at something he had the power to do but actually he was hoping someone who did have the power would be easily swayed and do a vig kill on Verbal or Aemon. It's just the thought I had at the time

[Myndrunner]

Ok I'm back...now then.....Red's ironically blue post....

 

it depends on how Womby worded the NA. since i don't have the power of compulsion, nor have i been placed under compulsion, i can only speculate. it could be he has to be told who to vote for and until then he can vote however he wants. and as we dont know when they're told they must vote (if it's any time during the Day or at Day Break) we can't know he didn't obey it immediately.

 

the fact that you claim Verb didn't obey it immediatley raises my eyebrows to the fact that you might have inside info on this role Mynd. and for Verb, his intial vote for Aemon was elborae enough to alert people right off that something is wrong, becuase Verb always gives a reason why he's voting someone. i'm not defending Verb, just pointing out the flaws in your "facts"

Again, I am simply offering an observation. Isn't it possible that Verbal decided to run this gambit mid game? If it was a player error, why didn't Womby delete his previous posts that were in violation of his PR? I'm still confuzzled as hell at the new DM; however, even I know to check my messages before posting. Verb always gives a reason for why he's voting someone, which is why he would have not given any room for mis-interpretation....he would have been OVER-THE-TOP with his vote for Aemon.

 

Secondly, I have no inside info on this at all, save my experience modding games with such a power in play. I am only going by what has already been said in this thread.

 

Thirdly, why the need to make it clear you are not defending Verb when you kinda are?

 

First off.....its good to assume there might be a vig in the game, especially one this size; but still i find it odd that you woudl mention it out of the blue.

 

2nd - Verb's alignment doesn't clear or implicate Aemon; or vice versus. Scum can use this role to attempt to clear their own people (either by compulsing their teammates directly or forcing compulsed people to vote for scum) thsi is a dangerous path your attempting to lead us down Mynd and MAJOR FOS @ you for it.

 

Mynd you're smarter than this, which is why i'm more and more wanting to lynch you. it doesn't clear you and you know most of us know the WIFOM surrounding this situaiton. the fact that your trying to twist events to clear yourself smells alot liek scum trying to take advantage of the situation and get the town to lynch two of their own

 

 

Since when is bringing up that there might be a vig in this game scummish?

 

You are right here, Verb's innocence does not implicate Aemon or vice versa; however, it does make one or the other less likely scum if the other flips innocent. If either Verb or Aemon flip scum, then the compulsion is a lie and both Verb and Aemon must be scum for playing along with it. If Verb or Aemon flip innocent, it validates the claim that compulsion is in play. I agree that it doesn't validate me in any way.

 

Red, I have no problem with you disagreeing with me or pointing out flaws in my logic, that's what I was asking for. I do find it confuzzling that you would cast a vote my way for simply questioning something we cannot completely verify yet. You're jumping the gun here and that's dangerous play. What happened to the methodical Red from Day 1 and 2?

 

...and am I the only one disappointed in our protectors NOT protecting Songs last night?

 

Red, your logic is impeccable. I have nothing to add except that i'm joining this bandwagon.

 

Vote Mynd

*fixed*

 

I get where you're coming from Mynd, but then again, I don't. First you say lynch Verbal then Aemon? Which IS it?

 

Not voting for now, that just leads to a bandwagon and less talk.

I'm not sure who would be the better lynch, if either of them actually, I'm simply presenting options that make sense, to me at least. I'm not trying to lead us anywhere (yet), I'm trying to open discussion. Your statement that I bolded is the most important thing posted so far. I've had my fair share of votes before, but there seems to be a lot of blood lust right now. If we get within a couple hours of deadline and you all still think I'm the smartest lynch, then fine. Allow me some time to convince you otherwise and.....please....let's discuss other options.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the scum were going to do a Compulsion ploy, wouldn't they start out as acting the Compulsion, as they'd have discussed it beforehand? Yet, Verbal voted for Mynd before suddenly switching to Aemon. That reads more to me like Verbal missed the PM, then was poked by the Lord Our Mod to correct. This doesn't clear Aemon by any stretch, as I have a hard time thinking that the scum would think that we'd all pile onto an Aemon vote based off Verbal's "arguments." It could instead be used as a smokescreen to make Aemon appear innocent. In that, I- and I can't believe that I'm about to say this- I can kinda see where Mynd's argument is coming from. I don't agree with lynching Verbal, as was suggested, in order to absolve or damn Aemon, though, as his actions read more like a townie mistake than a scum ploy.

This is why I am going back and forth on who would be a better lynch. If we lynch Aemon, and he flips innocent, it kinda doesn't let Verbal off the hook because Verb could have faked his own compulsion and then used the real deal on Aemon. The inverse is correct as well. The one thing we don't know for sure is that compulsion is even in play. Is there any way we can prove this without lynching either one of them?

 

At this point, Mynd, I hope you're not still going for the 'lynch A to clear B' plan. That only works with Cop viewings (sometimes) or something mod confirmed. It certainly doesn't work in this instance. I'm surprised at your insistence here. Others have responded to you, and you're still thinking your plan would work?

 

You're a hard one to pinpoint, Mynd. If you're scum, then good work and we need to kill you. If you're town, then stop helping scum and focus. I agreed with several of your posts over the last few days, but you're starting to fire blindly from the hip.....and it's going to get you lynched.

My only response here is that town-oriented players are fact focused. Mafia try to discredit the player instead of disputing facts. I ask everyone else, which is Verbal doing in the above post? How is this advancing the game? I would have rather he argue against the whole compulsion argument which is the primary reason for my suspicion. Instead, he's trying to discredit me. Doesn't read like a town-aligned post to me.

 

As BG thought about Red's arguments about Mynd, he felt more and more convinced of Mynd's overall scumminess. Too much about what he said didn't add up. Also, as BG listened to the arguments being thrown about, Aemon's name continued to be brought up. It does seem probable that the darkfriends would compel an innocent to vote for a darkfriend as a form of deceit and therefore command Aemon to vote Mynd. The naive would automatically assume the target to be innocent, therefore assume Mynd's innocence. But BG was not convinced, for he had obtained information that may prove Aemon's innocence and makes Mynd's insistence to lynch the compulsed all the more scummy.

Essentially, BG's logic is a variation of my own, just the names changed. If my logic makes me scummy, then BG would be scummy as well. Also, am I insisting on lynching the compulsed or am I asking for a debate? I hardly would say I am demanding we lynch Verbal or Aemon, but I do think one or the other is the smart move still.

 

BG had debated when to share this information, but now feels that it can only help the town to reveal what he had uncovered. As the last night's dawn came and Perrin was found dead, few were nearby when the deed was committed. Bgrishinko just happened to be wandering by when he came upon Perrin's body. In the hopes of preventing Darkfriends from looting the precious items that Perrin may have had, BG decided to do it first.

 

Upon Song/Perrin's body, BG found the one and only Vora Sa'angreal. Bgrishinko reminded the town of what had happend previously with this item. Aemon had stolen this item during Night 1. He came forth and talked about it openly explaining it's purpose and uses. Because the Sa'angreal was useless to Aemon he told the town that he was planning on gifting it to someone else that he believed to be innocent and could make good use of it. As he lifted the Sa'angreal, he realized that Aemon must have gifted the item to Perrin. If Aemon were Scum, he would have never gifted this particular item to Song as an innocent.

On the surface, this makes a lot of sense....except....the only people who know who is innocent for sure are the mafia. Would it be possible for the mafia to give the (whatever) to someone they know is innocent and then whack said innocent to get it back? What happens again when someone is whacked by the mafia? Do they get the items because they submitted the night kill? Aemon gave the (whatever) to Songs long before it was common understanding that she was innocent. I'm not buying this.

 

So, please argue with me on the facts. If I am wrong, point it out, but don't vote to lynch me because you disagree with me. My points are these:

 

1) We don't know for sure that compulsion is even in play.

 

2) Verbal's sudden shift into the compulsion midway on Day 2 is worth more than an eyebrow raise.

 

3) Aemon being the choice of said compulsion for Day 3 has me vexed. If you were mafia with that power, would you have picked the guy Verbal was going after?

 

4) Being disappointed in the lack of protection on Songs is not a reason to be lynched, nor is voicing said opinion.

 

5) Town-oriented players argue the facts, they don't leap to discredit those who simply doubt their claims. They certainly don't vote because they disagree.

 

Where am I wrong here?

[dapianoplay3r]

Ive been a vote stealer before and I got to choose when I made their vote change in the game. Now I think if there is compulsion it will just be the WoT name for a vote stealer so they could choose when the player gets the PM. Or they might get 2. One for them saying they are compelled and another telling them to vote. If they did this all in one PM to the MOD then the player would get one PM or, if we assume verbal is playing by his PMs and compelled, the player would get two separate PMs telling them how and when to vote.

I made a mess of explaining that but do you see what Im getting at? Its not so hard to believe that compulsion is in play and that a player might only get compelled halfway through a phase.

I still havent made up my mind if it's a gambit or a real play yet but I think Mynd's testing methods are extremely harsh for something like compulsion when we still have all the day one scumminess and Min's lynch to sort through. You seem to be trying to keep us from looking back a bit Mynd

[DrewRiley]

Key, good questions. Answers inside:

 

Dude, suck! PERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIN (yelled like “Stella” in A Streetcar named Desire)

 

I so have to try and sneak on at work because otherwise I end up with five pages of stuff to sort through. Apologies yet again for the long post. I suppose I should just do a blanket apology for this because getting on once a day after work seems to be all I can do *laughs*.

 

If Verbal was indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Aemon, for the time being. If Aemon is indeed compulsed, that sort of clears Mynd. So if we trust Verbal, then we're trusting Aemon and Mynd as well, which gives us a pretty good cohort. Likewise, if we don't trust Verbal, we probably should not trust Aemon or Mynd. I don't know which way to swing with this. Verbal, what were the stipulations exactly of your compulsion? Simply to vote Aemon, or to try to convince others, or to post so many times, or what?

Erm... I don't see how Aemon being compulsed clears Mynd. I can see how it -might- clear Verbal kinda, although if the Forsaken are working on their own, he might be mafia and Compulsed anyway.

 

I addressed this a lit bit later, and you're right that my logic in the post was a little off. I was assuming mafia wouldn't target itself during compulsion. While I still think that's true in Verbal's case, I'm becoming more suspicious of Mynd - I think maybe Aemon was compulsed by Mynd to vote for Mynd, and Mynd was convinced this wouldn't backfire like it sort of is right now.

 

We're also playing with fire to believe Aust was silenced the whole night. I wonder if he would have been so quiet if the lynch had started mounting for him? And not that I'm asking for a full revelation, but we got an idea of why the other four people targeted Aemon, so, Aust, why did you target Aemon? Hints, etc?

 

Why -wouldn't- we believe it? Yeah, the lynch didn't mount on him, but people did start asking why he hadn't posted. Why would he let that go on if he could post? Also, he'd been extremely active in the game up until that point, so did he just suddenly not feel like posting? I think it makes more sense to believe that he was silenced for the whole cycle. Not that I'm completely sure, as this is mafia, but I'm not super suspicious about that just yet.

 

To be perfectly honest, I believe that Aust was silenced as well, but you have to admit that trusting too far, especially with experienced players, is dangerous. Aust isn't under suspicion fro me or anything, it was just something I said.

 

I haven't sensed a cult yet, but it's only been two days, so anything's possible. All 13 Forsaken, with different abilities for each, would make this a really difficult game, even if we got lucky with the first lynch.

Do you normally sense a cult? I've never played a game that had a cult in it before. I have to agree with Verbal about the 13 Forsaken probably being in the game. I mean, Be'lal wasn't exactly the most exciting FS and he was here, so why include him if they aren't all here?

 

I've played when cults were around before, and people start acting much differently all of a sudden. Once it dawns on you, it's scary. But this is a huge game, and for all the posts, we're only on day...3? so, again, anything's possible.

 

[bgrishinko]

As BG thought about Red's arguments about Mynd, he felt more and more convinced of Mynd's overall scumminess. Too much about what he said didn't add up. Also, as BG listened to the arguments being thrown about, Aemon's name continued to be brought up. It does seem probable that the darkfriends would compel an innocent to vote for a darkfriend as a form of deceit and therefore command Aemon to vote Mynd. The naive would automatically assume the target to be innocent, therefore assume Mynd's innocence. But BG was not convinced, for he had obtained information that may prove Aemon's innocence and makes Mynd's insistence to lynch the compulsed all the more scummy.

Essentially, BG's logic is a variation of my own, just the names changed. If my logic makes me scummy, then BG would be scummy as well. Also, am I insisting on lynching the compulsed or am I asking for a debate? I hardly would say I am demanding we lynch Verbal or Aemon, but I do think one or the other is the smart move still.

 

BG pondered the validity of this statement, Then he suddenly remembered something else that Mynd had said earlier:

Now, I will say that my innocence should not be assumed by anything. As we all know, in the game of mafia, no one is innocent until proven otherwise; however, the most effective lynches are those when we go with 1) the most likely scum and 2) the one who would grant us the most information post lynch.

 

A lynch on Aemon might actually make more sense. If he flips innocent, then it not only suggests I am as well, but also Verbal too. Would you trade the life of one innocent player to confirm two others? I would. If he flips scum, then we know who to lynch next. (Spoiler Alert: Verbal)

 

 

Although there wasn't an outright demand to lynch Verbal or Aemon, BG thought the intention was the same. It seemed that Mynd was trying to influence the masses that obviously Verbal must go if Aemon goes, which made no sense. Or simply that no matter what, the information gained from killing Aemon (a finder and proclaimed DR) would be more benifial than keeping him around. How could this be? Bg wondered. Also, BG thought that his own argument was not the same as Mynds. BG argued that in the current situation, it is impossible to know by lynching a compulsed person what the orientation of another was. It seemed to him that any of the following scenarios was just as likely:

 

Verbal votes Aemon = Scum/Scum? Scum/Innocent? Innocent/Scum? Innocent/Innocent?

 

 

He did not understand why one ranks over another. Of course this applied to Aemon votes Mynd as well. He thought that, Mynd, as the focus of today's compulsion (apparently) would understand this and not try to mislead the town into confusion thinking this was not true.

 

BG had debated when to share this information, but now feels that it can only help the town to reveal what he had uncovered. As the last night's dawn came and Perrin was found dead, few were nearby when the deed was committed. Bgrishinko just happened to be wandering by when he came upon Perrin's body. In the hopes of preventing Darkfriends from looting the precious items that Perrin may have had, BG decided to do it first.

 

Upon Song/Perrin's body, BG found the one and only Vora Sa'angreal. Bgrishinko reminded the town of what had happend previously with this item. Aemon had stolen this item during Night 1. He came forth and talked about it openly explaining it's purpose and uses. Because the Sa'angreal was useless to Aemon he told the town that he was planning on gifting it to someone else that he believed to be innocent and could make good use of it. As he lifted the Sa'angreal, he realized that Aemon must have gifted the item to Perrin. If Aemon were Scum, he would have never gifted this particular item to Song as an innocent.

On the surface, this makes a lot of sense....except....the only people who know who is innocent for sure are the mafia. Would it be possible for the mafia to give the (whatever) to someone they know is innocent and then whack said innocent to get it back? What happens again when someone is whacked by the mafia? Do they get the items because they submitted the night kill? Aemon gave the (whatever) to Songs long before it was common understanding that she was innocent. I'm not buying this.

 

Bgrishinko then wondered about the incredibly odd logic of what Mynd said here, especially when Aemon has claimed to be a finder. That power alone gave him the ability to know who is innocent for sure. If the Darkfriends already had the Sa'angreal, why would they need to give it to someone and give them a temporary advantage, then whack them to get it back when they had it in the first place? He realized as well that Mynd obviously missed the Creator's statement that all dead people could be searched for items upon the announcement of their death. BG wondered if maybe Mynd really DID know that, and in an effort to post blame, hinted that BG was Darkfriend in his ability to claim the item. Scummy indeed.

 

5) Town-oriented players argue the facts, they don't leap to discredit those who simply doubt their claims. They certainly don't vote because they disagree.

 

Where am I wrong here?

 

 

Bgrishinko pondered this statement and felt bothered by it. At first it seemed to be a logical truth, but he didn't like Mynd telling him and everyone else how certain players must behave. BG believed that each person had their own strategy and played the game differently. Also, if this had always been true, then finding a Darkfriend would be incredibly easy. No, BG believed that the Darkfriends played the game the same as the townsfolk only in reverse. The strategies for pointing blame were not all that different for a town's person than a Darkfriend. A Darkfriend would also argue facts. A town's person needs to be suspicious of someone who doubts their claims, for a Darkfriend would indeed spread doubt about a true claim. They would most certainly vote for those that disagree, because it makes more sense than voting for those that do agree.

 

Mynd had not eased BG's mind one bit.

[aemonkristen]

Even after viewing Mynd as innocent last night, I think we should lynch him because he seems scummy.