Gaidel Cain

[moratcorlm]

That would fit in with Birgitte wearing clothing that's "the height of Seandar fashion" (being nearly identical to Galgan's).

[Daruya]

I've been doing a re-read lately and am currently in tGS again. I read something that made me wonder if we haven't "found" Gaidal Cain, although we haven't met him. In Chapter 10, Grady is talking to Perrin about going back to the Black Tower to see Sora and his son, Gadran, again.

 

Perrin says, "I'm sure he's a handsome child, Grady." Grady laughed. It felt odd, but good, to hear that from the man. "Handsome? Gadren? No, my Lord, he might be big for his age, but he's about as pretty as a stump. Still, I love him something fierce."

 

Which makes me wonder . . . if Gadran is Gaidal, is Gaidal going to be a channeler in this incarnation? We know that Grady's father could channel. Grady said he was taken by the Reds right after Grady was born.

[Terez]

I take it you didn't read the thread? See the new FAQ article: Gaidal Cain For Noobs. I almost called it mine but I forgot Marie wrote this one, lol.

[mb]

Gaidal Cain was spun out during time frame of Fires of Heaven. According to Encyclopaedia's timeline, that is late summer through early fall of 999 NE.

Gathering Storm they place at late spring through early summer of 1000 NE.

Less than a year would then be Gaidal's oldest age.

 

Of the character's shown up through Gathering Storm, only one fits that age:: That baby at Arad Doman. Gathering Storm Chapter 32.

If not him, then Gaidal reborn is yet to be revealed or was revealed in Towers of Midnight. I doubt the later.

[Kestrel]

If we're not going to see the birth and childhood of Elayne's babies, we're certainly not going to see Gaidal Cain play any role in the story. At this point the whole Gaidal Cain factor has receeded to being merely part of Birgitte's character development backstory. We might have seen Cain play a role if the Outrigger novels were eventually written, but that's not likely any more.

[aclund3]

Hi all, I'm new posting here, but have been on the site reading for a couple of months. I've read through the entire series twice, some books more, so I know some things but basically just enought to be dangerous;) So, forgive me if someone has brought up this theory and properly squashed it. Here goes......

 

I'm not sure of the exact timeline, but if Gaidal Cain dissapeared (i.e. was spun by the Wheel) towards the end of tSR/the beginning of tFoH, is there any chance that a different form of rebirth took place where his soul was placed within Mat and manifested as the memories that Mat gained during his rebirth from his 'first' death. In my recollection Gaidal was a military commander/genius type, seems like it could fit. I have to agree that the Wheel could certainly use Gaidal now rather than in 20 yrs. And I don't understand why Sanderson would tease us all with the 'I know who he is and he isn't Olver' statement.

 

Again, forgive me if that was stupid or incredibly wrong, it was just an interesting thought i had and hadn't seen it discussed yet. I do think that possibly the ugly thing has too much of an emphasis on the forums. In my understanding, it is the soul that is reincarnated, not the physical body, why couldn't Gaidal be reborn as a handsome strapping man every once in awhile? I'm sure there's a reason for that beyond 'whenever he is brought up in the books his ugliness is also always mentioned' But, what do I know, remember that i have 'dangerous' knowledge. That's just my two cents. Cheers!

[Muad Cheade]

I do think that possibly the ugly thing has too much of an emphasis on the forums. In my understanding, it is the soul that is reincarnated, not the physical body, why couldn't Gaidal be reborn as a handsome strapping man every once in awhile? I'm sure there's a reason for that beyond 'whenever he is brought up in the books his ugliness is also always mentioned' But, what do I know, remember that i have 'dangerous' knowledge. That's just my two cents. Cheers!

Yes. It is the soul that is reborn not the physical body. However, the souls do seemingly have recurring characteristics. For example, Birgitte always uses a bow and is not as proficient with a sword. Gaidal is recognized by the dual swords he wields. Birgitte's preference for ugly men seems to be evidence supporting the fact that Gaidal always is ugly or else she'd have broader tastes. Rand's reaction to seeing the Heroes of the Horn would imply that some characteristics carry over.

 

The fact that Rand's only similarity with LTT is their relative heights is possible evidence against that though.

[Terez]

I'm not sure of the exact timeline, but if Gaidal Cain dissapeared (i.e. was spun by the Wheel) towards the end of tSR/the beginning of tFoH, is there any chance that a different form of rebirth took place where his soul was placed within Mat and manifested as the memories that Mat gained during his rebirth from his 'first' death. In my recollection Gaidal was a military commander/genius type, seems like it could fit.

But don't you think that Mat would remember Birgitte in that case? In any case, I believe Brandon said that the 'Finns can't transmigrate souls - they can only steal memories. Aside from that, RJ confirmed that he had been spun out as a baby.

 

I have to agree that the Wheel could certainly use Gaidal now rather than in 20 yrs.

RJ said there will be other important things going on when Gaidal grows up.

 

And I don't understand why Sanderson would tease us all with the 'I know who he is and he isn't Olver' statement.

He was basically following up on things that RJ said about it.

 

Also, echo what Muad said on the soul traits - some things are always the same. Perhaps Rand/Lews Therin is always tall, for example - that seems to be the only physical similarity. Strength in the Power is probably also consistent from life to life. Certain Talents are soul traits, like Rand's ability to block gateways, and Wolfbrotherness (though there are some Ages where the Power is forgotten completely - perhaps inaccessible - and some Ages where natural-born Wolfsiblings won't manifest the Talent at all).

[aclund3]

All fair points. It did seem like a far out theory, and with the knowledge of what RJ had to say about it, what you are saying makes complete sense. Thanks!

[bsmnt23]

I'm a little disconcerted about the mixed way the pattern is prepping for the last Battle. The entire series, and in fact the whole of the previous 3000 years has been a build-up for the pattern to balance out the damage done to it by the Dark One. We see for the first 10 books or so the Pattern "stacking the deck" so to speak and getting its top big guns out to play all at once for the biggest single event in this turn of the wheel, and it lets some of its star players on the bench. Its allowing two of its major players, two heroes who, together could balance out a whole legion of trollocs with their called-from-beyond-by-the-horn superheroics to either get spun out as an infant (not much good against the forces of darkness, unless maybe as poison for some trollocs who wanted a soup or something ) and allowing one to be ripped out as a vanilla mortal with "bow hunting skills, gawd!".

 

While we're on the topic anyway, I think RJ let his fans down by NOT having Olvir be Gaidal. Everything he wrote about the kid indicated he was on track for something incredible in his future and he is described exactly as what RJ said Gaidal is always spun out as: that ugly kid who gets the pretty girl. (I think he was actualy slated to BE Gaidal, but someone pointed out the timeline dificulties, and in a fit of CYA made Gaidal some other kid). On the other hand, the kid is getting exactly the kind of education that could set him up to become the next Conan of Cimmeria of the Third Age (actualy, maybe the 4th Age, I guess). This little guy is going to have the kind of life that will save him a seat right next to Arture Hawkwing in TAR...if he survives the next book...

[FarShainMael]

It has been explicitly said many times over that both Grady's son and Olver are too old to be Gaidal. The fact is, he only entered the world about a year ago, and RJ once said that people enter the world at conception, not birth, so we're talking about a baby a couple months old.

Close. RJ said the soul enters the fetus, and the fetal stage begins some time after conception.

 

It does indeed, but was RJ's knowledge that detailed? A lot of people misapply the word 'foetus' to mean anywhere between the zygote and the about-to-be-born.

 

(I know you don't, BTW.)

[Terez]

RJ knew a lot of things, and I doubt he was ignorant on this one. Harriet founded the local Planned Parenthood clinic, so it seems unlikely that he was disinterested enough to be unaware of the difference between a zygote and a fetus.

 

But it's not as if it makes much difference either way.

[Sharaman]

Sad as it may seem for Gaidal fans, there's no way in which he can play a pivotal role in AMoL.

However, there could well be something big in Olver's future -- the end of ToM certainly doesn't preclude that.

And, if RJ had wanted to make Olver=Gaidal, well he set the rules for WoTverse didn't he?

[yoniy0]

I thought for a minute the creepiest thing I can think of is Cain being one of the boys Marigan had with her, but they were 6 and 7, much too old. Good on RJ, that would've been... dark.

[Terez]

I tend to believe Moghedien for some reason when she said she didn't do anything to them - they were probably just suffering from PTSD. They were fine after a while in Salidar.

[cmsnaith]

 

Jain Farstrider was not called by the Horn and didn't answer it's call. We don't know if he's a hero of the Horn, but he was certainly not there to fight near Falme. The reason is evident: he was alive and kicking.

Brigitte wasn't torn from the Pattern, but torn into the Pattern (from TAR). From a viewing from Min we know that she's bound to an ugly man both much younger and older than she is. That's Gaidal. They probably hook up some time after TG. Or she's killed and spun again into the Pattern at the time she was supposed to be born.

 

But when the Horn sounds, Birgitte won't answer, because she's alive. She will answer if she's killed before Mat sounds it. I wouldn't be surprised if Jain answers it's call this time, so he might be revealed as a Hero.

 

I wonder if this might be due to Birgitte being a warder. Gaidal may live and grow a normal (heroic) life, and meet Birgitte when he's much older. All the while, Birgitte could remain Elayn's warder, hardly aging at all (via the warder bond), making her actually much older than Gaidal, yet physically appear much younger.

[ZeshanHamdani]

According to Min's viewings, Birgette lives.

i thought for a while Grady's kid was Gaidal but no.

could it be Rands kid? which has been mentioned.

the reason all the heroes were not called back is because they are needed in case Rand wins. and what they would provide would be inconsequential in this current fight. And RJ didn't want it.

 

man, if they get to it, i can't wait to see what Birgette and Gaidal look like in the Movies.

[yoniy0]

hardly aging at all (via the warder bond)

That's not how the Warder Bond works. She would age, but stay fit and healthy.