He Used The True Power Again

[OptimusPrime]

Right dudes and dudettes.

 

When Ituralde watches Rand lay waste to the Trolloc army, we see him show an incredible ammount of power, which is fine. But two things about this scene make me think he used the True Power.

 

First off is how Rand describes the anger that rose again during the incedent, which he thought he was invulnerable to after the VoG incedent.

 

Second, and most important. While almost everyone who witnessed it displayed awe, Rands own words were that "it came too close to an encounter between us" and is clear beyond clear that when Rand talks about "him" without naming it, he is talking about the Dark One. Now I dont think Im making a big leap AT ALL in saying that in this scene, despite the magnitude of his power, Rand didnt use anywhere near the ammount of Power as he did in, say, the Cleansing, and there was no mention at all of anything like this then. I cant see how, given everything thats happened so far, that any saidin related incedent after the Cleansing could risk starting the encounter with the Dark One. The exceptions to that would of course include balefire, and maybe Callandor, but almost definitely not the weaves he used in this particular scene. We dont even need to know what the weaves were exactly to know that when Rand channeled this, his own words on it-it came too close to an encounter between us-could only mean that he channeled the True Power.

 

I also find it interesting that Rand says the Guardian stops the One Power, and the One Power only. It seemed clear to me that he was referring to the True Power here, which was the earlier scene of the two. But when Rand says it almost started an encounter between him and the Dark One the fact that he had implied knowledge of the True Power previously makes me think he used it, especially given his thoughts on the anger he thought he was immune to.

 

Thoughts?

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

I personally would agree. The True Power and the link to it is growing to be an integral part of his being due to the merger going on with Moridin. I am also fairly certain that since Moridin feels Rand's pain, that Rand is probably not immune from feeling Moridin's addiction to the true power.

 

Also that scene in particular seems to lend credence to his having used the true power to lay waste to the shadowspawn. Using the dark one's own essence to destroy his minions would certainly incur the DO's wrath moreso than many other things. As you stated if he had used Saidin the scene would make very little sense, since he used significantly higher amounts of saidin in the defense of the farmhouse in the 11th book and certainly much more when laying balefire to Graendal's entire fortress.

[Luckers]

The problem is people saw the webs Rand was weaving. Otherwise I'd leap on this--I'm not a fan of Jesus-Rand.

[Elan Tedronai]

sigh naeff says no.

 

we are no longer dealing with rand al thor the farmboy. we are dealing with a 400 year old Male aes sedai with enough knowledge of the power to kill in a thousand and one different ways

[OptimusPrime]

Hmmm. Didnt think about that on weaves. Nice one guys

[Dream]

I never thought about the True Power while reading that section. I assumed by "close to starting an encounter" that Rand and the DO were close to committing more and more forces that would escalate the small battle into a full-out war.

 

Rand channeling thte TP to initiate the encounter does sound attractive though. I don't think he actually did. By "coming close" he may have meant he was very tempted to use it, having reached the limits of his Saidin wielding. And as mentioned, there were witnesses.

 

About his anger, Rand states that he is entitled to his anger. He has always had a temper and trying to bottle it all up was the problem in the first place.

 

 

 

[Hadilmir]

Other explanation-

 

Rand, by creating a 'miracle' at Maradon, drew the focus of the Pattern. Not only was this probably the most faith ever put into him by hundreds of thousands in one location at once, but it was also too close to the Blight wherein the Dark One's touch on the world is stronger. Remember Falme, Pattern level events can be triggered by seemingly anything. The second point, about his words to the borderland rulers, he was talking of the past month where he would have balefired them with the True Power for those slaps, stop confusing that.

[Aquarius]

Reading ToM, it seems obvious to me (it's not spelled out but it makes sense to me) that Rand cannot access the TP no more. TP was the bait to drive him over the edge, which was apparently Moridin's intent. Now that part of the plot is over and Rand moves to the Last Battle. No more TP. He will probably have tough things to do, angish & all ... but I'm not sure TP will play a part (except wielded by Moridin himself)

[chinnma]

There seems to be evidence that Rand is able to channel the TP:

 

1:He is not the least bit bothered by the amount of Aes Sedai in the white tower when he visits Egwene (way more than neccesary to sever him), and doesn't object to being shielded which indicates that he has access to a power that is not the OP.

 

I should point out a possibility i have considered here, that his confidence in this regard comes from the magnitude of his "Ta'verenness" and his control over it. There is even evidence that the sisters were unable to resist his "pull" ("i couldn't even move"). However-

 

2:The comment he makes about the Gaurdian when meeting with the borderlanders that he would have returned their slaps with Balefire. There is no indication that Rand could use his "Ta'verenness" to produce Balefire from the pattern itself. Therefore, being sheilded from the OP, he must have been refering to the TP.

 

This doesn't neccisarily prove that Rand still has TP access. He commented that he would have in the past, perhaps indicating that he no longer could; i think however it is much more likely he is refering the recent change in his mental state which allow him to overcome his initial impulse to Balefire them out of the pattern. This is shown in that he "passed the test" so to speak, of the Borderlanders. Their prophesy had nothing to do with whether or not he had TP access; his mental state, however, was in question.

[fikkie77]

1. He relied on his Ta'verenness (as you suspected). More than this: he felt the visit was needed.

2. You're thinking about Rand and forget the Dragon, with all his AoL knowledge. The Dragon knows what the Guardian is and what it really can and cannot do. He could be referring to the True Power, but that knowledge comes from the AoL.

[Muad Cheade]

I think it's unlikely he can/would use the True Power again. He's no longer his old pragmatic Rand self and as this new Rand he seems focused on the Dark One and there being no chance of him turning, breaking or snapping.

 

The problem is people saw the webs Rand was weaving. Otherwise I'd leap on this--I'm not a fan of Jesus-Rand.

I'm inclined to agree.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Rand isnt stupid enough to use the TP again. He might be able to, but he wouldnt, unless at the uttermost end of need.

[Durinax]

rand drew the power through moridin throguh their bond and used him like an sa angreal. just to through another crazy idea into the mix

[Aquarius]

There seems to be evidence that Rand is able to channel the TP:

 

1:He is not the least bit bothered by the amount of Aes Sedai in the white tower when he visits Egwene (way more than neccesary to sever him), and doesn't object to being shielded which indicates that he has access to a power that is not the OP.

 

I should point out a possibility i have considered here, that his confidence in this regard comes from the magnitude of his "Ta'verenness" and his control over it. There is even evidence that the sisters were unable to resist his "pull" ("i couldn't even move"). However-

 

2:The comment he makes about the Gaurdian when meeting with the borderlanders that he would have returned their slaps with Balefire. There is no indication that Rand could use his "Ta'verenness" to produce Balefire from the pattern itself. Therefore, being sheilded from the OP, he must have been refering to the TP.

 

This doesn't neccisarily prove that Rand still has TP access. He commented that he would have in the past, perhaps indicating that he no longer could; i think however it is much more likely he is refering the recent change in his mental state which allow him to overcome his initial impulse to Balefire them out of the pattern. This is shown in that he "passed the test" so to speak, of the Borderlanders. Their prophesy had nothing to do with whether or not he had TP access; his mental state, however, was in question.

1- I put than on the ZenRand or ta'veren attitude. No more access to TP but he knows he has nothing to fear from the double-13 shield on him.

2 - Of course pre-VoG Rand can use the TP. That's what he refers to here, I think.

[Seeker]

Based on A Storm of Light, it doesn't seem Rand would need the TP for most things. I doubt the sister's circle could hold even using the OP. The Far Madding comment does seem to be a clear reference to TP though.

[OptimusPrime]

Rand isnt stupid enough to use the TP again. He might be able to, but he wouldnt, unless at the uttermost end of need.

 

Look at Rand intergrated with LTT. If you think he would even think of using the TP with his knowledge, i think you might want to get a checkup.

 

Whys that? Because DEMANDRED cant use the True Power?

 

I reckon the encounter with the Dark One will be begun by Rand by specifically channeling the True Power once the Seals are broken.

[Harvster7]

Hi Guys, new to the boards but been a fan for the last 20 years. Am i wrong in saying that the DO bestows the ability to channel the true power, because if this is true its very doubtful that he would allow Rand to channel the TP after his intergration.

 

I think and agree with a previous poster,that its his intergrated knowledge from LTT that allowed him to channel that amount of the one power and the complexity of the weaves.

 

Any thoughts?

[OptimusPrime]

Hi Guys, new to the boards but been a fan for the last 20 years. Am i wrong in saying that the DO bestows the ability to channel the true power, because if this is true its very doubtful that he would allow Rand to channel the TP after his intergration.

 

I think and agree with a previous poster,that its his intergrated knowledge from LTT that allowed him to channel that amount of the one power and the complexity of the weaves.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I have a theory, that because Rand and Moridin are merging, Moridins permission to channel the True Power IS Rands permission, and if the Dark One wanted to stop Rand from using it, he would have to stop Moridin. But the Dark One needs someone to have access.

 

Could be wrong of course.

 

One thing though. Graendal, in ToM, thought to herself that her access to TP was a gift from Moridin, but then she corrects herself and says it was the Dark One.

 

Why on earth would anyone make that mistake? I think its because the Dark One can possess True Power wielders. Im also tempted to believe that Ba'alzamon really was the Dark One possessing Ishamael back in the day, but Im not sure. But I think the possession thing will come into play at the end, I reckon Rand will break the Seals and channel the True Power, this will make the Dark One try to possess him, and Rands plan will be to die with some of the Dark One in him

[Harvster7]

I like that theory, never really thought about it in that context so its got me thinking. Can I ask do we know if there is still the connection with Moridin going on? Since VOG there does not seem to be the description of Rand seeing a face etc when he channels.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Rand isnt stupid enough to use the TP again. He might be able to, but he wouldnt, unless at the uttermost end of need.

 

Look at Rand intergrated with LTT. If you think he would even think of using the TP with his knowledge, i think you might want to get a checkup.

 

Whys that? Because DEMANDRED cant use the True Power?

 

I reckon the encounter with the Dark One will be begun by Rand by specifically channeling the True Power once the Seals are broken.

 

To the first point. thats just sad... Drekka, as I said, I love you, but you have to get over this. So I like a character you hate. Calm down.

 

the second point. Yes, that is possible. I didnt say Rand CANT use the TP, I just think that if you thought he would have used it unless specifically needed (as in the case with the seals, where the TP is needed to seal him away again) but I just dont know how anyone could think he would still use the TP to do something like kill Trollocs after all he knows from LTT. LTT would rather have died than use the TP (The Last that could be done) he knows all the dangers it represents now. I jsut cant see it.

 

Poor choice of words by me, however. I didnt even realize I put the last bit in. My mistake. I didnt mean to offend. Ill have to edit the post.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Hi Guys, new to the boards but been a fan for the last 20 years. Am i wrong in saying that the DO bestows the ability to channel the true power, because if this is true its very doubtful that he would allow Rand to channel the TP after his intergration.

 

I think and agree with a previous poster,that its his intergrated knowledge from LTT that allowed him to channel that amount of the one power and the complexity of the weaves.

 

Any thoughts?

 

I have a theory, that because Rand and Moridin are merging, Moridins permission to channel the True Power IS Rands permission, and if the Dark One wanted to stop Rand from using it, he would have to stop Moridin. But the Dark One needs someone to have access.

 

Could be wrong of course.

 

One thing though. Graendal, in ToM, thought to herself that her access to TP was a gift from Moridin, but then she corrects herself and says it was the Dark One.

 

Why on earth would anyone make that mistake? I think its because the Dark One can possess True Power wielders. Im also tempted to believe that Ba'alzamon really was the Dark One possessing Ishamael back in the day, but Im not sure. But I think the possession thing will come into play at the end, I reckon Rand will break the Seals and channel the True Power, this will make the Dark One try to possess him, and Rands plan will be to die with some of the Dark One in him

 

An interesting point here. I do like the theory of the DO possession. It would explain Ishamael's insanity adn thinking he is really the DO. Because, well... technically he WOULD be the DO. Or the DO acting through his body.

 

Anyway, I am not sure about Rand using the TP to make the DO possess him. However, it does have a certain similarity between the viewings of Callandor. Callandor's flaw seems to make him vunerable to the Shadow. It has already been established it magnifies the Taint. Perhaps it does the same or a similar thing with the TP. Rand uses Callandor to make himself vunerable, then uses the TP to connect himself to the DO, then use his own body as the buffer between the DO and the OP, so the prison is sealed again, and instead of the OP being Tainted, Rand dies?

 

Hell, I dont know. The point is, I like the possibilites that your theory has.

[bluecole]

This may be out there somewhere, but I think it is a good possibility Rand will use the TP to seal the Bore.

 

He may have to in order to prevent any backlash tainting both Saiden and Saidar. (Which may happen anyway, if they are entering an age without it)

 

Wouldn't it be a kicker for the series to end with both men & women going insane?

 

B.

[ranjitb]

Other than the fact that Naeff could (almost) see his weaves, what Rand did at Maradon was described as an "Explosion of Light" in more than a physical sense - that drove all darkfriends nearby insane. It's highly unlikely that would have happened if he was using the DO's power.

 

Its far more likely that the event was a one time only light-side declaration of "Oh IT'S ON!" on Rand's part, the "shout that starts the avalanche" as he describes it, not to be repeated again.

I personally would find it very disappointing if his role at TG was just to blow up armies in a huge explosion - I mean clearly that will be happening, but it should be left to the various others, I have always expected Rand's role to be deeper, and his conflict to be more philosophical rather than just "My blowup is bigger than your blowup".

[Muad Cheade]

The amount of Power he used drained him completely, so it is unlikely he'll do it again as it leaves him vulnerable. Another reason he will not do it again is because he does not want the men to be dependent on him.

[BaLeFiRe WRaTH]

As far as him drawing so much, what do you guys think of the idea that he found a way to harness a part of the Power that the Choeden Kal gave access to when he destroyed it in meditation on top of Dragonmount? Did he find a way to hold an immensely larger pool of the Power through that scene, thus making him powerful enough to almost challenge the DO without any external aids (TP)?