Is CoT going to be as bad as I'm told?

[cap10kirk]

WHAT! Tylin is dead?!?!

 

...

 

 

Well the book is good so far!

 

LOL.

 

I'm happy to entertain. lol

 

I was shocked. And sad. Still sad. Mat and Tylin were so cute/funny together! Paused for now. Busy tonight so I probably wont read any more till tomorrow. I'm about to start the first Perrin chapter.

 

Oh other thoughts:

The prologue was freaking long... and random.

I get all my random Aes Sedai confused, having to stop and look them up frequently.

Gawyn! Its been what? 4 books? Wait isn't one of those Aes Sedai evil? (See previous point)

Loial's back!!!!

I've said what i needed to say about Mat's chapters. I hope there are more Mat chapters remaining in this book...

Uh I feel like I should understand Seanchan culture more than I do at this point...

It took three read through to be able to follow the random Aes Sedais and other characters.

[NetSlider]

it's not bad at all. I actually liked it. It was remarked that people that waited for it a lot time like it less than people that just read all books at once. Plus, if you like Mat you'll really enjoy CoT as it is Mat's book in many ways.

[Agitel]

I'm one of those that now enjoys CoT.

 

I think the main problem with it is that something so badass happened in the ninth book and you want to see the ramifications of it in some way and you never get that. It kind of failed to meet expectations. It's like A Feast for Crows in ASoIaF in that respect. Both are good on rereads, or if you go in with the right frame of mind.

[casusev]

It took three read through to be able to follow the random Aes Sedais and other characters.

 

Yeah I think its going to take me a while. My eyes kinda glaze over during these parts, I can't keep it straight.

 

it's not bad at all. I actually liked it. It was remarked that people that waited for it a lot time like it less than people that just read all books at once. Plus, if you like Mat you'll really enjoy CoT as it is Mat's book in many ways.

 

Mat's chapters have been the most fun so far. I hope he turns up some more. He's got a Gholam to kill (though I'm not holding my breath for this book lol). I'm just getting into Elayne's chapters.

 

I'm one of those that now enjoys CoT.

 

I think the main problem with it is that something so badass happened in the ninth book and you want to see the ramifications of it in some way and you never get that. It kind of failed to meet expectations. It's like A Feast for Crows in ASoIaF in that respect. Both are good on rereads, or if you go in with the right frame of mind.

 

It hasn't been bad so far. Just not exciting. When reading it I've yet to be at the edge of my seat. Unlike all the previous books, I can put this book down. And I think thats the problem.

 

Elayne's chapters are going to be the hardest for me I think. I've yet to enjoy one of her PoVs in the series yet.

 

Also I haven't read any of ASoIaF yet. Another series I would like to be more confident of it finishing lol.

[Sid]

Elayne's chapters in CoT (Andor war of succession) are probably the most difficult to make myself care about in the entire series of books. I remember thinking to myself after I read them the first time 'So it's still like that, and that's still like this, and this is the same as before. 6 chapters. Huh.' Nowhere to go but up from there IMO.

[MrMatrim]

I also like CoT a lot more now than I did when it first came out. I was so disappointed with the long wait, and with what was NOT in it, that I did not appreciate what was in it.

 

The thing to keep in mind is this: At the end of WH, Rand's timeline jumped farther ahead of everyone else's, so the first half of the book is mainly catching everyone else up to that time, and seeing what they were doing at the time of the cleansing.

 

I also think of it this way: If the story is a roller-coaster, WH was the ratcheting up to the top, Knife of Dreams starts that rush downwards to the end, slow at first and then building. CoT is that moment or two at the top, with the coaster just starting to inch down, and the world stands still.

[Lynchgrinch]

CoT, while deffo being the "worst" in the series...it's still a WoT book and therefore AWESOME, there some good Mat/Tuon material in there, some good perrin bits (although they do drag out) and a realy cool darkhound bit.

 

Other than that it's just realy slow, tPoD, WH and CoT were deffo like a trilogy for me...thats were the books started to get much less exciting and more....worldbuilding. Which is fantastic in it's own right. Oh dont get me wrong the cleansing and rand going mental with callandor were bothe two of my fave scenes ever....but realy i did struggle with CoT first time round....you just expect so much more i guess...Now on re-reads i do quite like it but mostly because of its little hints and speculations about future events.

 

 

After CoT, KoD is just INCREDABLE...and tbh its incredable as a stand alone too....after CoT it only goes uphill with the last 3 books that have been written being some of my faves in the whole series....woop wooop!!

[NetSlider]

Mat's chapters have been the most fun so far. I hope he turns up some more. He's got a Gholam to kill (though I'm not holding my breath for this book lol). I'm just getting into Elayne's chapters.

 

 

Yeah, don't hold your breath, you def gonna need some air before that happens. :)

[NetSlider]

CoT, while deffo being the "worst" in the series...it's still a WoT book and therefore AWESOME, there some good Mat/Tuon material in there, some good perrin bits (although they do drag out) and a realy cool darkhound bit.

 

Other than that it's just realy slow, tPoD, WH and CoT were deffo like a trilogy for me...thats were the books started to get much less exciting and more....worldbuilding. Which is fantastic in it's own right. Oh dont get me wrong the cleansing and rand going mental with callandor were bothe two of my fave scenes ever....but realy i did struggle with CoT first time round....you just expect so much more i guess...Now on re-reads i do quite like it but mostly because of its little hints and speculations about future events.

 

 

After CoT, KoD is just INCREDABLE...and tbh its incredable as a stand alone too....after CoT it only goes uphill with the last 3 books that have been written being some of my faves in the whole series....woop wooop!!

 

No, no, PoD was the worse. CoT was a great book for KoD set up and for tGS and ToM. PoD, that was completely awful (I always skip it almost in entirety when re-reading; No Mat - No Me).

[-ZanMgt- OneNight]

Yeah, Path of Daggers was terrible for leaving Mat out. However I still hate Crossroads of Twilight FAR more. The entire book is made of (expletive) ELAYNE! I hate any chapter with her in it, with in exception for Mat of course, I have only been ever able to read Crossroads of Twilight once. Every time I read it now I only read the chapters that I like. Mat and some Rand.

[casusev]

It's been a busy week with the holiday coming up, so I'm not as far as I planned to be. Over half way though. A chapter or two into Egwene's story. A lot more energy in these chapters compared to Elayne.

 

Elayne's chapters in CoT (Andor war of succession) are probably the most difficult to make myself care about in the entire series of books. I remember thinking to myself after I read them the first time 'So it's still like that, and that's still like this, and this is the same as before. 6 chapters. Huh.' Nowhere to go but up from there IMO.

 

This. Nothing happened. Probably the most bored I've been in WoT since... Elayne's chapters in ACoS.

 

 

I also like CoT a lot more now than I did when it first came out. I was so disappointed with the long wait, and with what was NOT in it, that I did not appreciate what was in it.

 

The thing to keep in mind is this: At the end of WH, Rand's timeline jumped farther ahead of everyone else's, so the first half of the book is mainly catching everyone else up to that time, and seeing what they were doing at the time of the cleansing.

 

I also think of it this way: If the story is a roller-coaster, WH was the ratcheting up to the top, Knife of Dreams starts that rush downwards to the end, slow at first and then building. CoT is that moment or two at the top, with the coaster just starting to inch down, and the world stands still.

 

Knowing whats not in it, going in, has really helped.

 

 

CoT, while deffo being the "worst" in the series...it's still a WoT book and therefore AWESOME, there some good Mat/Tuon material in there, some good perrin bits (although they do drag out) and a realy cool darkhound bit.

 

Other than that it's just realy slow, tPoD, WH and CoT were deffo like a trilogy for me...thats were the books started to get much less exciting and more....worldbuilding. Which is fantastic in it's own right. Oh dont get me wrong the cleansing and rand going mental with callandor were bothe two of my fave scenes ever....but realy i did struggle with CoT first time round....you just expect so much more i guess...Now on re-reads i do quite like it but mostly because of its little hints and speculations about future events.

 

 

After CoT, KoD is just INCREDABLE...and tbh its incredable as a stand alone too....after CoT it only goes uphill with the last 3 books that have been written being some of my faves in the whole series....woop wooop!!

 

It hasn't been bad. And I really enjoyed Mat's chapters so far. Perrin's were ok too. And I'm sure I'm missing quite a bit of foreshadowing and other little hints.

 

Interesting. WH felt like the end of a 'trilogy' rather than the middle (ACoS, tPoD, WH). The developments and consequences of Rand's decision to create the Asha'men. CoT does feel right to be slower than WH, to 'ramp up' the next 'trilogy' (in five parts!). Probably too slow, however. Looking back I was also pretty frustrated with ACoS after that stellar ending to LoC.

 

I'm quite excited for KoD and the rest of the books. They should be good. :)

[casusev]

Yeah, don't hold your breath, you def gonna need some air before that happens. :)

 

I figured :)

 

 

No, no, PoD was the worse. CoT was a great book for KoD set up and for tGS and ToM. PoD, that was completely awful (I always skip it almost in entirety when re-reading; No Mat - No Me).

 

I actually rather liked PoD...

 

 

Yeah, Path of Daggers was terrible for leaving Mat out. However I still hate Crossroads of Twilight FAR more. The entire book is made of (expletive) ELAYNE! I hate any chapter with her in it, with in exception for Mat of course, I have only been ever able to read Crossroads of Twilight once. Every time I read it now I only read the chapters that I like. Mat and some Rand.

 

Ha! She's been in less than half of what I've read so far (again probably 50-60% the way through) but yeah it really feels like 'her book.' Thats not a good thing! Yeah I don't think I'll reread book ten anytime soon :)

[Lynchgrinch]

I actually rather liked PoD...

 

I didn't mind it either! PoD tends to get alot of stick actualy, IMO it has some of the best Rand scenes in the series, yeah mat's absemce is a bit nippy...but i can live with it. CoT is a far more boring read.

[JordanRutherford]

Part of the CoT bashing comes from people that read the cleansing at the end of WH, waited 2 years for more badassery, and then CoT was largely comprised of non-action scenes. Then it ended with a bit of a cliffhanger. 2 years after that we got KoD and everything picked up again. When reading the series through without pause, it's more like a lull than the complete stop we as a community felt in the early 2000's. This is nobody's favorite WoT book, but it's worth reading and not just getting the Cliff's Notes.

 

 

Yea. I think Sid hit the nail on the head here. I am on my first read through to, just started this year and I am no in the last bit of ToM, and I honestly didn't have any problem at all with CoT. In fact as someone said earlier, I actually really enjoyed the parts with Mat and Tuon.

[Shard]

I actually rather liked PoD...

 

I didn't mind it either! PoD tends to get alot of stick actualy, IMO it has some of the best Rand scenes in the series, yeah mat's absemce is a bit nippy...but i can live with it. CoT is a far more boring read.

 

I don't know why people complain about PoD you had the Weather fixed and the Bowl of Winds arc came to a close.

[Haran]

It's not great.

BUT! But the great thing is that you can, after having read CoT, pick up the next one in the series right away. This was not the case, naturally, when it just came out.

[casusev]

Well I finally set aside a night to read the last third of the book (felt like homework!).

 

So was CoT as bad as I was told it would be? Yes and no.

 

It is without a doubt my least favorite WoT book. In fact at least half the book I didn't really *want* to read. The book really had no narrative structure. If there was a climax, I missed it.

 

However, the Mat and Perrin chapters were still a joy to read. Perhaps my favorite parts were the Rand/Logain interactions. And while the ending left a lot to be desired, many plot lines looks as if they might collide (Rand & Tuon, Perrin & the Seanchan). Btw when was the last time the three Boys were together? The Stone of Tear?

 

Anyway next up is New Spring, which I'm very excited for. Moiraine has been my favorite female character in the series (these days I guess its Nynaeve. Sadly I really don't enjoy many of the female characters...)

[cgk84]

Personally I don't even bother reading Crossroads of Twighlight anymore when I'm re-reading the series. Easily the worst in the series and a real low point at that. Hundreds of pages of walking and talking and endless descriptions of women's clothes... No thanks. It would have benn passable if any of the talk in it was interesting or relevant. It seemed to me like Jordan was trying to write his way through a terrible case of writer's block and his agent went and got it published instead of leaving it alone! Awful, awful book.

[A2597]

1st time I read it, skimmed large portions.

2nd time reading it, skimmed portions.

3rd time reading it, still skimming portions.

[moratcorlm]

Well, if we're still giving advice after the original poster has finished the book, I say it's not that bad, except for the Shaido/Perrin/Faile portions. casusev is correct when he says there's no narrative structure to it, but Sid and Ashaman_Kill are correct to say the reason the fanbase loves to bash it is mostly the wait when it was originally published; the hatred is more for the shattered expectations than because of the quality, or lack thereof, of the book itself.

 

Mat and Tuon is one of my favorite parts of the series, so I'll take more of it wherever I can find it regardless of whether there's 'action' or not; as an Elayne fan, I didn't find her scenes as painful as her detractors do (and come on, that's why the chapters are disliked; there are multiple bathing scenes in this series, and that's the only one that gets vitriol); Rand's chapters in Tear and the involvement of the Logain subplot are interesting; and Pevara and especially Alviarin's scenes are pretty good.

 

I'm not sure whether you'll find New Spring to your taste, but fortunately it isn't too long. Next I suppose you have Knife of Dreams, which is fantastic.

[dovien]

CoT is nowhere near as bad as people seem to think. If you made it through books seven and eight then there's no reason you can't make it through CoT too.

[GaseousAnomaly]

I'm at that book too. As some others said we are lucky that we didnt wait a year or two for that book and wont have to wait a year or two for the next one. But I do find it tedious right now. I've had concerned since I saw it's 1.5 star rating on Amazon. But this one customer review that was on the first page made me chuckle.

Egwhine smoothed her skirts and sat and pondered about the issue of what to do about the problem concerning matters involving the taking of the White Tower, first considered lo these many many pages ago. Then she had some mulled wine. But not just any mulled wine. This was the finest mulled wine in all of Randland, made from grapes that were as plump and ripe as the finest, sparkling cleavage and sparkled like a thousand silvery moons and that were trampled by feet as pretty as a thousand golden sunsets in the most gorgeous of all wooden tubs...

Meanwhile, Mat sat there and thought about things and how nice it would be to have a plump serving girl on each knee and a great deal of ale. And Perrin, finding many weevils, weevils of considerable size and ghastliness, in his breakfast cereal, considered that maybe he would think about considering the possible rescue of his annoying wife Faile, whom he loved, deeply, more deeply than anyone who ever imagined anything imagined. Even though she was more annoying than someone hitting you with a carboard tube and saying "Yeeee! Yeeee! Yeeee!" over and over and over and still over again. And much, much, more did Perrin ponder over another bowlful of weevils, much that would ultimately, indeed, lead to much, much, more pondering...

 

Nynaeve twitched and fidgeted and tugged her braid. In truth, no one was safe from her formidable braid-tugging. Not even the rough side of her tongue was as greatly feared. Anyway, as did her friends, so, too, did Nynaeve ponder and ruminate. And ruminate and ponder. Truly did she miss Lan and how he liked the color blue...

 

And Rand ...sat there and ...brooded. And mused. And still brooded and mused till his brow darkened with the brooding and the musing and...oy! Dark One save us all!

 

[Dasmarius]

It is my least favorite of the series, simply because I despise Faile, and it did go on... and on... and on...

 

But it was interesting to see varied reactions of channelers around the world while the cleansing was going on. I am, however, less interested that apparently no one decided to do anything about it. So, an unspeakable amount of saidin and saidar are being channeled pretty much smack middle of the Randland continent, and no one but the Forsaken even bother to investigate, and their PoVs were already seen.

 

The Black Ajah bits were worthwhile, though :)

[dovien]

That review is surprisingly accurate, I must admit.

[Canis Rufus]

I think COT is not really considered a must read for most, I will agree. However, reading it does give you a deeper appreciation of the story. Call it anticipation of events or even education of your surroundings it adds a deeper flavor to the whole story. It’s like this, anyone can go an order a steak and say “well that was tasty” but if you take the time to understand the ageing of the meat, the skill of butcher that made the cut, the expertise of the cook that seared and flavored the meat, well it’s still tasty but now you can really appreciate the experience on a deeper level. You could tell someone all these things you know about the steak but if they have not ‘learned’ it then they will not appreciate the experience as fully. So to me COT is like learning the current process the, ‘where are we going as people and why’ book. No not for everyone but everyone should at least read it once and may be surprised at the reread how much better it can get especially once you have seen where it will eventually lead. To see it in another light, you don’t rush the night you enjoy the experience, lest you ‘finish’ before you’ve been appreciated.