What was the 'BLANK in the Blight'

[Avalonjohn44]

My first post here, and a crazy thought, what if the _______ is a community of tinkers that learned the song from the Green Man? Not only did they learn the song, but they also learned the secret of remaining unaffected/undetected in the blight. The surrounding blight would keep them from being discovered by anyone else, and it also ties up a plot thread that has been dangling since the first book. Furthermore, what would be more shocking than finding out that a community of pacifists are thriving in the harshest environment in Randland?

 

Oh well, back to lurking.......

 

I really like that idea too, but like the other ideas (including the red veiled Aiel) still feel there isn't enough 'umph' to it that would shock Team Jordan members. Maybe I'm just setting the bar too high on my expectations. But I hope we're as floored as Hariet and Wilson.

[ShiftedInsights]

I'm in the mood to rant and ramble for a bit, I don't have my series handy, and I don't have the Big White Book, so I won't be citing text with academic rigor, and if I say anything hopelessly misguided feel free to point it out, I'd usually rather know what is going on than be right. This might be a bit far reaching but I want to bring up some theory and background, and maybe address some ideas in this thread so far.

 

First, on the metaphysics of the World of the Wheel, Mirrors of the Wheel, Reason and Unreason, Kingfishers, iterations, quantum worlds and other ideas that seem present in WOT

 

Being that fantasy worlds are exceedingly complex and usually have an internal consistency and logic, and being that RJ was a High Lord of generalist curiosity and all around wonder at thinking about the ideas and structures that keep people and reality together in civilizations and matter and energy and such, there is a good deal of inference and speculation, and thought experiment, so bear with me. We know that the Pattern is sustained by the Creator, and that people leading their lives and making choices around other people create tangles and tapestries and this in turn creates the Age Lace, and the Age Lace in turn spreads through time in a fashion akin to eternal return to forge the many iterations of the ages that make up the sum of reality. Some threads have a far greater effect on the lives of others near them and far away, and their choices, and the seen and unforseen consequences of those choices twist their thread around the threads of others (even the most insane or destructive decisions and actions still being in the morally neutral category, as they still are positive creations within the construction of reality). The ur force behind all of this being the attraction and repulsion that underlie the behavior of sadin and sadir in respect to each other, as these turbulence's create the forward motion that turns the Wheel of Time. The Wheel, and the serpent, and the male and female aspects of the Power all spring from the Creator as the first mover and sometimes sustainer of the system. Taveren are generated by the Pattern as self correcting devices in order to repair the inevitable flaws that arise from such a complex, self sustaining system. Taveren, for the most part are not there by the Creator's affirmative will but arise as a necessary function of the Age Lace to keep the chaos generated through the creation of order from tearing it (with Rand being something of an exception to this rule). They seem to do this by being something of a mathematics rule changer upon the statistics of choice, causing more unlikely, but necessary interconnections in the pattern of the life threads they come into contact with. This effect manifests in different ways, from Matt's very up front random odds manipulations, to very intense corrective sub patterns forming around them via their presence causing odds weight changes in the 'this or that' neural pathway choices that result in the actions of people (placement of the threads). This effect seems stronger around them, possibly conforming to something of a rule of inverse squares from the taveren as a center point (More on that speculation in regards to other things in a moment). This theory also speaks to the necessity of the three taveren to go running off around the world in order to correct weaknesses and flaws in the Patter as caused by both unforeseen consequences and the machinations of destruction. It was needed for them to interact with people, and through just being near them, sending their lives off in vastly different directions than would have happened otherwise(Domon and Galad come to mind as supporting evidence). Now, for the Portal Stones and Mirrors of the Wheel, alternative Patterns fan out from the Randland Prime, at various degrees of 'realness' based on the liklihood of those alternate patterns in reference to the real and realer ones that will be fuller than the ones where unlikelier choices played out (the world where Rand and Selanfear were as an example of a less likely quantum potential, and a hypothetical world where almost everything else == Randland save that Rand was killed as a child and the DO is up with a 'lesser win' with humanity in retreat and hordes of Darkfriends and Trollcs waiting for the Return being a world that would be more full and real, and also possibly provide cannon fodder available to be delivered to the Big Show in Randland), the speed that time/space moves is not a constant respective to the sub realities. The Portal Stones allow these other Quantum Potentials to be visited, the Ways and One Power Traveling exploit the null spaces in between these other realities, and once again, time/space is not constant to ur Randland or the Quantum Potentials within the nullspace, as the Ways show us. TAR, The One Power, The Wheel, and the Creator exist on layers that are constant to all potential Randlands, though of course time and space move differently there in respect to the physical worlds. The Dark One and his True Power exist in a layer that is wholly outside all other elements in the Randland/Many sub Randlands/TAR/Creator/One Power/Wheel Superstructure, being a force that is innately in opposition to Creation yet whose presence is necessary as a nullspace in order for Creation to exist at all. The DO and The True Power that stems from him, that Merim detected and tapped at the Sharon at Collam Daan in TAoL is a purely destructive force, and malignantly destructive for the sake of it, which works change but always does corruption or causes destruction, which is why True Power traveling is destructive to the Pattern but the One Power of the Creation superstructure pokes between the threads without 'making them scream'. Now as the DO is outside Creation, the Bore is the metaphysical weak spot where his anti creation spreads out onto the Pattern, which is physically grounded in Shayol Ghul, which we can safely assume I think, is the same geographical location as Collam Daan was located in the AoL (accounting for Breaking of the World Drift of Course), which was in the city of V'saine, which I would not doubt was obliterated in the freeing of the Dark One (Save for the buildings near Shayol Ghul that Moridin makes use of perhaps...) Still, during the Age of Legends, the Bore can be considered Ground Zero for the Shadow, and that they spread out territorially from there. I consider it very important to note that during the first War of Power that the forces of the Shadow took over cities and territory and attempted to twist the societies there to their philosophies and doctrines, as Moridin in the only dark friend aware that the DO is chaotic, malicious, end of existence evil and not merely just Dominion over the World, self interested evil like they are. Personally, I conceptualize the Dark One's ability to touch the world using the Law of Inverse Squares again, though not with total uniformity, as he can focus his energies on the locales and projects he chooses, and with an absolute power limit based on the number of metaphysical seal points intact via their heartstone-ish seals in Randland. This kind of accounts for the ways the DO chose to stack the deck. The taint on sadin tied up a significant portion of the DO's total available energy in Randland, as did fixing the summer in place pre Bowl of Winds, if i recall the Blight started to recede from its maximum penetration into the Borderlands around then. Once the CK were used to clean it (which was almost assuredly the largest single drawing and use of the One Power by humans ever, including AoL), this freed up a good deal of the DO's force, but also pissed him off real bad. The Wondergirls and Seafolk using the Bowl of Winds unfixed the summer and brought winter crashing down with a vengeance, after all, it was supposed to be then and only the DO kept it from happening, so nature, abhoring a vaccum roared right in. This freed up a good deal of energy from the DO too, pissed him off even worse, but then it looks like he threw some effort into magnifying and fixing the Winter. I think the rest of that surplus went into war preparations for a while before the blight began advancing again just before things started to really kick off. Now since the blight, and the corruption therein is an expression of the dark one affecting destructive change on the physical world, and he can choose to direct efforts where he wants, I don't see any reason why crops couldn't grow there If the DO wills it. He certainly has enough control around the reality around Shayol Ghul to make whatever he wants happen in regards to physical material and the nature of reality there, it could extend further into the Blasted Lands, though lose some force as it does.

Now, we get to the Greatest of Great Games, Creator v Dark one Face Off through endless iterations of the 7 Ages. It was made clear through some of Ishy's ranting and hinted at through the bright ideas of a few of our character/philosophers, The Dark One and the Creator are in constant combat, though they have rules about it, and one of those rules is that they may not directly interfere, but instead fight via proxies, manifested as the sould of Ishy/Moridin, and the soul of the Dragon. Of course, the DO being the DO means that he gets to cheat and the Creator does not (though that is debatable, as we do have one example in TEotW of the Creator talking in Rand's head, even though he is telling him he can't interfere, letting your champion know for certain you exist at all could be considered interference, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the glowing, white, anti sadin/true power taint counter tendrils in his mind count as divine interference too, though that could be defined as the Creator working through Rand). Through the Moridin POV where he goes on about philosophy and games (and I know, I know, Moridin is not exactly a trusted voice), he goes on about how they've been fighting this fight for all the turnings of the Wheel, and that sometimes the Light wins a round, sometimes the Shadow wins a round, but there are win's and then there is the Big Win which he goes on about with the Kingfisher metaphor. Killing Rand, or beating him, or negating him or even turning him to evil is a win per turn of the wheel, but if the wheel is still turning, the game is still going. The Big Win for the Dark One is not to make Rand self interested and evil, but to bring his personal belief system into line with the DO's; namely that death is the best anyone can get if life is all suffering, and that existence just has to go, and the Big Win moment came and went on Dragonmount in VoG if you ask me, I think that no matter what happens at the final battle of the Age, the next Age will still be coming. Since Rand we have learned, has a metaphysical connection to reality, and his mindstate and well being affects the material state of the world, if he pulled the CK trigger feeling like he did about everything, that would have been That. The prophecy even included a failsave for an unreconciled Rand that could not get at uninsane Lews Therin's memory at will (assuming he did not destroy the world, but did not achieve synthesis with his former lives) though the question asked at the Borderlander army meeting, since, as Cadusane had said once (since she is savvy to the connection between Rand's mental health and reality) that if he stayed like he was, winning the Last Battle might be just as bad as losing it. I also put forth that Ishy was indeed crazy as a loon, as he had similar memory integration issues as Rand did, save with all of his past lives, and the Ishy body's brain was completely rotten with addiction and corruption by the True Power, and since he was at the metaphysical 'top' of the Seal of the Bore, he spent way more time conscious with nothing to do over a few thousand years, which can't be a recipe for sanity, though it did give him free agency to set up some serious Pattern Distorting Events in play. The Moridin body is less TP corrupted, and it is not outside the realm of the DO to grant him fuller sanity along with Nae'blis status. I have to take some of what Moridin says at face value for some of this theory, but since the only people who seem at least somewhat versed on the biggest big picture have been Moridin, Herid Fel, Moiraine, Verin, and to an extent Min at the level of Philosophers of Wheel World Ontology, and then the empirical explorations of Egwene and Perrin and the other Dreamwalkers for TAR, the Ogier Ways, Portal Stones, and Taveren to tease out some reality rules from their use and reactions, and fragments of books and histories from the AoL. I have great hopes for the rest of Verin's red wax sealed letters, as she is one of the few with the greatest access to both the Karetheon Cycle Prophecies, and the Dark Prophecies, as well as being the Black Ajah expert, and knowing her history in and out, and the only one who knows most if not all of both who would have used them to help the Light. Perhaps the letter that was left by Verin at the Tower for Rand will shed some light on it. I wouldn't be surprised if Min pulls a few ontological zingers out of her Post Herid Fel Studies, and wouldn't it be fun if it was something that Moridin should have caught but missed due to his extremely depressive thread of nihilism putting a blind spot in his studies. Though as I said elsewhere, the fact that Moridin is aware of his unending chain of lives engaged in an existential war he might not even care about makes him something of a sympathetic figure to me. I also have a slightly out there theory that perhaps even he is wrong, and the effect of one potential Last Battle senario is to free the cyclical repetition of the Age Lace, and the inherent prison of iteration implied, and replace it with a Pattern free to continue into a future that is not pre ordained to repeat as an infinite loop. My other big theory for the endgame is based off of some of the Fel/Min musings. Since the undrilled bore was in existence, and then imperfectly patched in the AoL, to Break in the Third Age, it has to be fixed perfectly again, with a few ages for people to forget that war ever existed before it could be reinvented again towards the end of of the Next AoL Age when the bore is broken into again. Since the Creator only acts through Rand instead of directly interfering against the Dark One's constant violation of rules via blight corruption and the TP, that creates the necessity for him to bleed at Shayol Ghul, So the Creator can use his admin mojo/Dragonblood uplink to do things up proper.

 

Finally, and in line with the thread, I think the city in the Blight idea has a good deal going for it. The Shadow took cities in the War of Power and the Blight is Huge, no reason one could not have mostly survived the Breaking of the World, especially if it was in the pre blight area, where the Dark One could have exerted influence to protect it, and to keep the blight from corrupting it beyond use, and keeping mad male channelers from making rubble out of it. The Shadow needs a location to train Dreadlords, and sources for them. The male Aiel channelers going to the blight for thousands of years is one, either through 13x13 or getting turned by offers for sanity protection, but even that isn't a great number. Randland has hunted down male channelers, and female channelers rarely breed at all, much less with other male channelers and their civilizations still turns out something like 1% who spark and a few more who can learn but do not spark (fuzzy on the canon numbers). If the Shadow has a city, they get human labor and soldiers, fodder for Fade swords, Trolloc food, and most importantly, they can get close to 100% of all people born who can channel, both sparkers and non sparkers, and since it's the Shadow, forced breeding programs to get more and better channelers would not be beyond the pale. If they kept this city up since the Breaking, it would also be a depository for AoL knowledge, allowing the Shadow to train their channelers the old school way. I would love to see an Age of Legends map to overlay with a Randland map, line up the bore and V'saine, and see what cities were closest, at least pre Breaking. Also, the people in red at the end of the book are not Aiel, didn't have veils up while killing, and just aren't. I would not be surprised if Verin was savvy to the Blight City, I hope it is in the Letter she had waiting for him at the White Tower, I'd smile at something like.... Hey Rand Therin, if you got this, that means you didn't destroy reality, nice one! BTW, Paaran Disen is is thriving with a society of Darkfriends built from the decedents of old prisoners, co opted male aiel channelers, and the Hall of Servants is Dreadlord Officer Corps. Drank Hemlock, Joke's on the suckers, I hope. Best of luck with the three wives, Verin.

[Morsker]

There's an impenetrable wall of text in the Blight. Not even the True Power can penetrate it, so all Rand has to do is copy-and-paste it enough times to seal the Bore with it. Callandor has a cut-and-paste feature, but the documentation is long-lost, so Rand needs some women to help him figure out how it works.

[htarcan]

There's an impenetrable wall of text in the Blight. Not even the True Power can penetrate it, so all Rand has to do is copy-and-paste it enough times to seal the Bore with it. Callandor has a cut-and-paste feature, but the documentation is long-lost, so Rand needs some women to help him figure out how it works.

 

this is even funnier than bela :D:D:D

by the way I'm really desperate to know how this bela humor started

[Pinzarn]

I am not holding out much hope for the BLANK to be something huge.

 

I was truely unimpressed with the Big Unnoticed Thing as well as the revelation of Asmodean's killer. I expect the BLANK to be something along the same lines.

[Canis Rufus]

I'm in the mood to rant and ramble for a bit, I don't have my series handy, and I don't have the Big White Book, so I won't be citing text with academic rigor, and if I say anything hopelessly misguided feel free to point it out, I'd usually rather know what is going on than be right. This might be a bit far reaching but I want to bring up some theory and background, and maybe address some ideas in this thread so far.

 

First, on the metaphysics of the World of the Wheel, Mirrors of the Wheel, Reason and Unreason, Kingfishers, iterations, quantum worlds and other ideas that seem present in WOT

 

Being that fantasy worlds are exceedingly complex and usually have an internal consistency and logic, and being that RJ was a High Lord of generalist curiosity and all around wonder at thinking about the ideas and structures that keep people and reality together in civilizations and matter and energy and such, there is a good deal of inference and speculation, and thought experiment, so bear with me. We know that the Pattern is sustained by the Creator, and that people leading their lives and making choices around other people create tangles and tapestries and this in turn creates the Age Lace, and the Age Lace in turn spreads through time in a fashion akin to eternal return to forge the many iterations of the ages that make up the sum of reality. Some threads have a far greater effect on the lives of others near them and far away, and their choices, and the seen and unforseen consequences of those choices twist their thread around the threads of others (even the most insane or destructive decisions and actions still being in the morally neutral category, as they still are positive creations within the construction of reality). The ur force behind all of this being the attraction and repulsion that underlie the behavior of sadin and sadir in respect to each other, as these turbulence's create the forward motion that turns the Wheel of Time. The Wheel, and the serpent, and the male and female aspects of the Power all spring from the Creator as the first mover and sometimes sustainer of the system. Taveren are generated by the Pattern as self correcting devices in order to repair the inevitable flaws that arise from such a complex, self sustaining system. Taveren, for the most part are not there by the Creator's affirmative will but arise as a necessary function of the Age Lace to keep the chaos generated through the creation of order from tearing it (with Rand being something of an exception to this rule). They seem to do this by being something of a mathematics rule changer upon the statistics of choice, causing more unlikely, but necessary interconnections in the pattern of the life threads they come into contact with. This effect manifests in different ways, from Matt's very up front random odds manipulations, to very intense corrective sub patterns forming around them via their presence causing odds weight changes in the 'this or that' neural pathway choices that result in the actions of people (placement of the threads). This effect seems stronger around them, possibly conforming to something of a rule of inverse squares from the taveren as a center point (More on that speculation in regards to other things in a moment). This theory also speaks to the necessity of the three taveren to go running off around the world in order to correct weaknesses and flaws in the Patter as caused by both unforeseen consequences and the machinations of destruction. It was needed for them to interact with people, and through just being near them, sending their lives off in vastly different directions than would have happened otherwise(Domon and Galad come to mind as supporting evidence). Now, for the Portal Stones and Mirrors of the Wheel, alternative Patterns fan out from the Randland Prime, at various degrees of 'realness' based on the liklihood of those alternate patterns in reference to the real and realer ones that will be fuller than the ones where unlikelier choices played out (the world where Rand and Selanfear were as an example of a less likely quantum potential, and a hypothetical world where almost everything else == Randland save that Rand was killed as a child and the DO is up with a 'lesser win' with humanity in retreat and hordes of Darkfriends and Trollcs waiting for the Return being a world that would be more full and real, and also possibly provide cannon fodder available to be delivered to the Big Show in Randland), the speed that time/space moves is not a constant respective to the sub realities. The Portal Stones allow these other Quantum Potentials to be visited, the Ways and One Power Traveling exploit the null spaces in between these other realities, and once again, time/space is not constant to ur Randland or the Quantum Potentials within the nullspace, as the Ways show us. TAR, The One Power, The Wheel, and the Creator exist on layers that are constant to all potential Randlands, though of course time and space move differently there in respect to the physical worlds. The Dark One and his True Power exist in a layer that is wholly outside all other elements in the Randland/Many sub Randlands/TAR/Creator/One Power/Wheel Superstructure, being a force that is innately in opposition to Creation yet whose presence is necessary as a nullspace in order for Creation to exist at all. The DO and The True Power that stems from him, that Merim detected and tapped at the Sharon at Collam Daan in TAoL is a purely destructive force, and malignantly destructive for the sake of it, which works change but always does corruption or causes destruction, which is why True Power traveling is destructive to the Pattern but the One Power of the Creation superstructure pokes between the threads without 'making them scream'. Now as the DO is outside Creation, the Bore is the metaphysical weak spot where his anti creation spreads out onto the Pattern, which is physically grounded in Shayol Ghul, which we can safely assume I think, is the same geographical location as Collam Daan was located in the AoL (accounting for Breaking of the World Drift of Course), which was in the city of V'saine, which I would not doubt was obliterated in the freeing of the Dark One (Save for the buildings near Shayol Ghul that Moridin makes use of perhaps...) Still, during the Age of Legends, the Bore can be considered Ground Zero for the Shadow, and that they spread out territorially from there. I consider it very important to note that during the first War of Power that the forces of the Shadow took over cities and territory and attempted to twist the societies there to their philosophies and doctrines, as Moridin in the only dark friend aware that the DO is chaotic, malicious, end of existence evil and not merely just Dominion over the World, self interested evil like they are. Personally, I conceptualize the Dark One's ability to touch the world using the Law of Inverse Squares again, though not with total uniformity, as he can focus his energies on the locales and projects he chooses, and with an absolute power limit based on the number of metaphysical seal points intact via their heartstone-ish seals in Randland. This kind of accounts for the ways the DO chose to stack the deck. The taint on sadin tied up a significant portion of the DO's total available energy in Randland, as did fixing the summer in place pre Bowl of Winds, if i recall the Blight started to recede from its maximum penetration into the Borderlands around then. Once the CK were used to clean it (which was almost assuredly the largest single drawing and use of the One Power by humans ever, including AoL), this freed up a good deal of the DO's force, but also pissed him off real bad. The Wondergirls and Seafolk using the Bowl of Winds unfixed the summer and brought winter crashing down with a vengeance, after all, it was supposed to be then and only the DO kept it from happening, so nature, abhoring a vaccum roared right in. This freed up a good deal of energy from the DO too, pissed him off even worse, but then it looks like he threw some effort into magnifying and fixing the Winter. I think the rest of that surplus went into war preparations for a while before the blight began advancing again just before things started to really kick off. Now since the blight, and the corruption therein is an expression of the dark one affecting destructive change on the physical world, and he can choose to direct efforts where he wants, I don't see any reason why crops couldn't grow there If the DO wills it. He certainly has enough control around the reality around Shayol Ghul to make whatever he wants happen in regards to physical material and the nature of reality there, it could extend further into the Blasted Lands, though lose some force as it does.

Now, we get to the Greatest of Great Games, Creator v Dark one Face Off through endless iterations of the 7 Ages. It was made clear through some of Ishy's ranting and hinted at through the bright ideas of a few of our character/philosophers, The Dark One and the Creator are in constant combat, though they have rules about it, and one of those rules is that they may not directly interfere, but instead fight via proxies, manifested as the sould of Ishy/Moridin, and the soul of the Dragon. Of course, the DO being the DO means that he gets to cheat and the Creator does not (though that is debatable, as we do have one example in TEotW of the Creator talking in Rand's head, even though he is telling him he can't interfere, letting your champion know for certain you exist at all could be considered interference, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the glowing, white, anti sadin/true power taint counter tendrils in his mind count as divine interference too, though that could be defined as the Creator working through Rand). Through the Moridin POV where he goes on about philosophy and games (and I know, I know, Moridin is not exactly a trusted voice), he goes on about how they've been fighting this fight for all the turnings of the Wheel, and that sometimes the Light wins a round, sometimes the Shadow wins a round, but there are win's and then there is the Big Win which he goes on about with the Kingfisher metaphor. Killing Rand, or beating him, or negating him or even turning him to evil is a win per turn of the wheel, but if the wheel is still turning, the game is still going. The Big Win for the Dark One is not to make Rand self interested and evil, but to bring his personal belief system into line with the DO's; namely that death is the best anyone can get if life is all suffering, and that existence just has to go, and the Big Win moment came and went on Dragonmount in VoG if you ask me, I think that no matter what happens at the final battle of the Age, the next Age will still be coming. Since Rand we have learned, has a metaphysical connection to reality, and his mindstate and well being affects the material state of the world, if he pulled the CK trigger feeling like he did about everything, that would have been That. The prophecy even included a failsave for an unreconciled Rand that could not get at uninsane Lews Therin's memory at will (assuming he did not destroy the world, but did not achieve synthesis with his former lives) though the question asked at the Borderlander army meeting, since, as Cadusane had said once (since she is savvy to the connection between Rand's mental health and reality) that if he stayed like he was, winning the Last Battle might be just as bad as losing it. I also put forth that Ishy was indeed crazy as a loon, as he had similar memory integration issues as Rand did, save with all of his past lives, and the Ishy body's brain was completely rotten with addiction and corruption by the True Power, and since he was at the metaphysical 'top' of the Seal of the Bore, he spent way more time conscious with nothing to do over a few thousand years, which can't be a recipe for sanity, though it did give him free agency to set up some serious Pattern Distorting Events in play. The Moridin body is less TP corrupted, and it is not outside the realm of the DO to grant him fuller sanity along with Nae'blis status. I have to take some of what Moridin says at face value for some of this theory, but since the only people who seem at least somewhat versed on the biggest big picture have been Moridin, Herid Fel, Moiraine, Verin, and to an extent Min at the level of Philosophers of Wheel World Ontology, and then the empirical explorations of Egwene and Perrin and the other Dreamwalkers for TAR, the Ogier Ways, Portal Stones, and Taveren to tease out some reality rules from their use and reactions, and fragments of books and histories from the AoL. I have great hopes for the rest of Verin's red wax sealed letters, as she is one of the few with the greatest access to both the Karetheon Cycle Prophecies, and the Dark Prophecies, as well as being the Black Ajah expert, and knowing her history in and out, and the only one who knows most if not all of both who would have used them to help the Light. Perhaps the letter that was left by Verin at the Tower for Rand will shed some light on it. I wouldn't be surprised if Min pulls a few ontological zingers out of her Post Herid Fel Studies, and wouldn't it be fun if it was something that Moridin should have caught but missed due to his extremely depressive thread of nihilism putting a blind spot in his studies. Though as I said elsewhere, the fact that Moridin is aware of his unending chain of lives engaged in an existential war he might not even care about makes him something of a sympathetic figure to me. I also have a slightly out there theory that perhaps even he is wrong, and the effect of one potential Last Battle senario is to free the cyclical repetition of the Age Lace, and the inherent prison of iteration implied, and replace it with a Pattern free to continue into a future that is not pre ordained to repeat as an infinite loop. My other big theory for the endgame is based off of some of the Fel/Min musings. Since the undrilled bore was in existence, and then imperfectly patched in the AoL, to Break in the Third Age, it has to be fixed perfectly again, with a few ages for people to forget that war ever existed before it could be reinvented again towards the end of of the Next AoL Age when the bore is broken into again. Since the Creator only acts through Rand instead of directly interfering against the Dark One's constant violation of rules via blight corruption and the TP, that creates the necessity for him to bleed at Shayol Ghul, So the Creator can use his admin mojo/Dragonblood uplink to do things up proper.

 

Finally, and in line with the thread, I think the city in the Blight idea has a good deal going for it. The Shadow took cities in the War of Power and the Blight is Huge, no reason one could not have mostly survived the Breaking of the World, especially if it was in the pre blight area, where the Dark One could have exerted influence to protect it, and to keep the blight from corrupting it beyond use, and keeping mad male channelers from making rubble out of it. The Shadow needs a location to train Dreadlords, and sources for them. The male Aiel channelers going to the blight for thousands of years is one, either through 13x13 or getting turned by offers for sanity protection, but even that isn't a great number. Randland has hunted down male channelers, and female channelers rarely breed at all, much less with other male channelers and their civilizations still turns out something like 1% who spark and a few more who can learn but do not spark (fuzzy on the canon numbers). If the Shadow has a city, they get human labor and soldiers, fodder for Fade swords, Trolloc food, and most importantly, they can get close to 100% of all people born who can channel, both sparkers and non sparkers, and since it's the Shadow, forced breeding programs to get more and better channelers would not be beyond the pale. If they kept this city up since the Breaking, it would also be a depository for AoL knowledge, allowing the Shadow to train their channelers the old school way. I would love to see an Age of Legends map to overlay with a Randland map, line up the bore and V'saine, and see what cities were closest, at least pre Breaking. Also, the people in red at the end of the book are not Aiel, didn't have veils up while killing, and just aren't. I would not be surprised if Verin was savvy to the Blight City, I hope it is in the Letter she had waiting for him at the White Tower, I'd smile at something like.... Hey Rand Therin, if you got this, that means you didn't destroy reality, nice one! BTW, Paaran Disen is is thriving with a society of Darkfriends built from the decedents of old prisoners, co opted male aiel channelers, and the Hall of Servants is Dreadlord Officer Corps. Drank Hemlock, Joke's on the suckers, I hope. Best of luck with the three wives, Verin.

 

 

 

*Clears Throat*

 

 

..... no

[Pygmalion79]

I'm in the mood to rant and ramble for a bit, I don't have my series handy, and I don't have the Big White Book, so I won't be citing text with academic rigor, and if I say anything hopelessly misguided feel free to point it out, I'd usually rather know what is going on than be right. This might be a bit far reaching but I want to bring up some theory and background, and maybe address some ideas in this thread so far.

 

First, on the metaphysics of the World of the Wheel, Mirrors of the Wheel, Reason and Unreason, Kingfishers, iterations, quantum worlds and other ideas that seem present in WOT

 

<Lots of speculative stuff>

<city in the blight stuff>

 

I would not be surprised if Verin was savvy to the Blight City, I hope it is in the Letter she had waiting for him at the White Tower, I'd smile at something like.... Hey Rand Therin, if you got this, that means you didn't destroy reality, nice one! BTW, Paaran Disen is is thriving with a society of Darkfriends built from the decedents of old prisoners, co opted male aiel channelers, and the Hall of Servants is Dreadlord Officer Corps. Drank Hemlock, Joke's on the suckers, I hope. Best of luck with the three wives, Verin.

 

*Clears Throat*

 

 

..... no

....I read 90% of it, despite the lack of paragraph breaks. I suppose that I agree with most of it, but the big question on my mind is: "The law of inverse squares?"

 

Also, I will take a shot if Verin's letter to Rand mentions Paaran Disen.

[Guest dachi]

What about the "weapon" that turned the walls of "whatever that city Rand saved from the Trollocs in ToM was named" to rumble? Nobody sensed any channeling, and yet it seems like it had to be charged, or at least took a while to bring into position considering they didn't use it for such a long time.

[DocBean]

What about the "weapon" that turned the walls of "whatever that city Rand saved from the Trollocs in ToM was named" to rumble? Nobody sensed any channeling, and yet it seems like it had to be charged, or at least took a while to bring into position considering they didn't use it for such a long time.

 

Not true, the Ashamen said he felt male channelers working on something big. I think he said he could feel 6 of them.

They were basically reproducing Taims Training - Blowing up Rocks comes in handy when you need to get through a rock wall.

[DocBean]

read 90% of it, despite the lack of paragraph breaks. I suppose that I agree with most of it, but the big question on my mind is: "The law of inverse squares?"

 

Also, I will take a shot if Verin's letter to Rand mentions Paaran Disen.

 

Seriously, You read 90% of that?

Did you have a few cups of coffee while you were at it?

I can't believe anyone would even start.

 

I assumed it was a Troll, and just went down to the next persons post.

Does anyone have the Cliffs Notes Version?

[Canis Rufus]

read 90% of it, despite the lack of paragraph breaks. I suppose that I agree with most of it, but the big question on my mind is: "The law of inverse squares?"

 

Also, I will take a shot if Verin's letter to Rand mentions Paaran Disen.

 

Seriously, You read 90% of that?

Did you have a few cups of coffee while you were at it?

I can't believe anyone would even start.

 

I assumed it was a Troll, and just went down to the next persons post.

Does anyone have the Cliffs Notes Version?

 

 

If it was a Troll it is an Epic Fail, I could be wrong but I took it as a very passionate fan with an exorbitant amount of time and imagination. Still NO but very passionate… Lots and lots of time.

[Kestrel]

....I read 90% of it, despite the lack of paragraph breaks. I suppose that I agree with most of it, but the big question on my mind is: "The law of inverse squares?"

Law of Inverse Squares: one of the Laws of Physics. The closer you get to something, the harder it tugs on you. But the rate of increase of that tug is far greater than the rate of speed of your approach.

 

It's like stepping in quicksand. Or deciphering that post. You're already in over your head and drowning before you even realize you're in the pit.

 

...one potential Last Battle senario is to free the cyclical repetition of the Age...and replace it with a Pattern free to continue into a future that is not pre ordained to repeat as an infinite loop.

Now that is an interesting theory I hadn't heard before. The Last Battle makes the Time stop turning in a wheel to recycle the ages, and instead starts Time down a new straight-line path towards an infinite and unpredictable future. Sort of like how time moves in our world.

 

Might be something to that idea.

 

I know, I know. "Don't feed the Troll." You can stop throwing stuff at me now.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

if the definition of troll is someone who types a ridiculous number of words in a post about the wheel of time, there are an awful lot of graphomanic trolls on WOT boards.

 

i think there's a red herring in the blight. and i don't think wilson was that shocked.

[Kestrel]

OK, I'm ready to step up to the window and place my bet now.

 

I'm betting 100 Gold Tar Valon Crowns that the <Blank> in the Blight IS a city, and Demandred is in charge there. He's been gathering the tainted male sparkers and preparing them to do battle on the Dark Lord's side.

 

The reason we haven't seen Demandred's channeling minions is because he's being selective about the weaves he teaches, there's an entire encampment of Trollocs surrounding the Blight city with permission to eat all runaways, and Demandred may even have a Dreamspike of his own over the place. Undoubtedly, in Demandred's Blight city the 13x13 maneuver is being actively used.

 

Or perhaps we HAVE seen some of Demandred's channeling minions, but just not recognized them. They would include Mazrim Taim, the enemy channelers at the Siege of Maradon, the Red-Veiled Aiel, and most of Mazrim Taim's Inner Circle including Mezar with the "not-quite-alive" eyes. The Logain-supporting Mezar left the Black Tower and went somewhere, then came back as a seemingly-compulsed Taim minion. What safer place could exist for "conversion" than a protected place in the Blight under Demandred's rule?

 

Some of the reasons I'm wagering on this solution:

-- RJ's account of the <Blank> was very complex and took a lot of time. This implies RJ was laying out a completely new and mostly unforseen plot line, such as would be required to incorporate a forsaken-ruled city into the story.

-- RJ insisted that we still had not seen Demandred "on screen" in disguise. That pretty much rules out everyone in Randland. Contrast this to the other big mysterious forsaken, Mesanna, wherein RJ's reaction was one of surprise that we hadn't figured it out yet.

-- RJ was emphatic that Mazrim Taim is not Demandred. Yet the characteristics and actions of the two are so close, and Lews Therin's reaction to Taim was so strong, there must be a serious tie between them. I'm quite certain that Taim has been Demandred's #1 agent since he first emerged as a channeler apparently unafflicted by the taint.

-- Demandred definitely has an affinity for Trollocs. During the War of Power, Demandred captured and fed two complete cities to the Trollocs. Living in the Blight surrounded by resident Trollocs and Myrddraal would make Demandred feel right at home.

-- Demandred MIGHT be hanging about in Shara instead, but the plot foreshadowings and hints we have received suggest that Shara will remain on the sidelines, possibly to have been explored in an Outrigger story. Additionally, while Graendal insisted she was clueless to Demandred's whereabouts, she had the Sh'boan and Sh'botay as two of her pets in Natrin's Barrow. This stunt brought no reaction from Demandred.

-- Another reason for ruling out Shara as Demandred's abode is that we have no revelations RJ developed Shara "off-screen" either. Furthermore, after reading Towers of Midnight and seeing virtually NO mention of Shara, the only way for Shara to become a player is for Demandred's Blight city to be just inside the border of Shara. Barring that possibility Shara is set up to remain a non-player, unless a contingent of unannounced Sharan channelers arrives to fight on Rand's side and reinforce some weakened battle lines.

 

None of this is solid proof, of course, but the stack of coincidences coupled with the few firm answers we DO have come together as a very strong circumstantial case for Demandred ruling a city in the blight.

[Mandro]

Watch, it'll be a Stedding...crazy? just crazy enough?

 

It's what I thought. The rebirth of the treebrother greenman at the end of TEotW created a steading, and will be the base from which all of the treesingers may conquer the 3K years of corruption.

[Mandro]

I think it's a dragon, a wyrm. One of the forsaken mentioned at some point that Aginor's creations had finally bloomed into full size in the Blight. I reckon it's a giant worm who will attack in the last battle

 

Where was this stated? Do you remember?

 

It's in TEotW when they talk about worms chasing them. Their is an insinuation that once mature they are uncontrolable, and I think Moiraine said "not all of aginors creations are as pleasent as trolloc's" or something like that. I think there is also a statement that aginor sometimes reached beyond even his abilities, (I think it was in TGH of lanfear mentioning the forsaken, or maybe it was in her monologue at the end of TSR)

 

At first I thought they were dragons myself, and was waiting for the reveal so that rand might control them. Maybe they are dragons and the reveal will occur in the final book, after all why would Fain be targeting worms at the end of ToM, if they were reliable shadowspawn?

[Kestrel]

after all why would Fain be targeting worms at the end of ToM, if they were reliable shadowspawn?

Fain himself isn't a reliable shadowspawn. Maybe he thinks worm slime is useful.

[Mandro]

after all why would Fain be targeting worms at the end of ToM, if they were reliable shadowspawn?

Fain himself isn't a reliable shadowspawn. Maybe he thinks worm slime is useful.

I bet it's DELISCIOUS!

[Thorgan]

I'm assuming Harriot knew how the books are going to end and therefor knew all important 'actors' (including objects).

So whatever it is, it probably isn't very important.

 

For example something to justify how so many Trollocs can live in the blight. That would just 'fix' the plot but not really change anything.

[htarcan]

Mezar with the "not-quite-alive" eyes.

 

ashes.. I'm listening audiobooks and I always thought his name was written like something else. Now it makes sense why he has "not-quite-alive" eyes. In Turkish, mezar is the exact word for graveyard. Ghenjei is a male name (meaning youngmoon)which is as common as Be'lal. Although they're read the same, they're written a little different (Gencay, Bilal). You know, the Dark One's true name is same as what we call devil.

and so many more turkish words all through the books that I cant remember now.

 

btw way I agree with the city idea too, and Taim being from there is really cool.

[Kestrel]

Names derived from Turkish with particular meanings which describe the character's role and/or destiny. Wow. That suggests this part of the story may have been written by RJ himself.

 

Thanks. I am familiar with several languages but Turkish is not one of them. Being able to understand the name allusions must make the story a lot richer for you.

 

Please let us know about other name-meanings you've spotted whenever it suits the discussion.

[Sharaman]

Names derived from Turkish with particular meanings which describe the character's role and/or destiny. Wow. That suggests this part of the story may have been written by RJ himself.

 

Thanks. I am familiar with several languages but Turkish is not one of them. Being able to understand the name allusions must make the story a lot richer for you.

 

Please let us know about other name-meanings you've spotted whenever it suits the discussion.

 

Same words in Arabic, Farsi and Urdu. So, I'd suspect they're originally derived from Arabic like the names of most of the trolloc clans.

[htarcan]

Names derived from Turkish with particular meanings which describe the character's role and/or destiny. Wow. That suggests this part of the story may have been written by RJ himself.

 

Thanks. I am familiar with several languages but Turkish is not one of them. Being able to understand the name allusions must make the story a lot richer for you.

 

Please let us know about other name-meanings you've spotted whenever it suits the discussion.

 

Well, I wouldn't make a bold claim like that of course, it just surprised me.

Most of them doesn't make sense. Like "aile" used for islands (ie."aile dashar") means family in Turkish.

There are so much examples that make me confused when reading the turkish translation of the books.

 

and yes, a lot of them are arabic originated, but not all.

At least I know for sure that "Gencay" is totally Turkish originated.

 

Have I mentioned "Bela" means trouble? :D:D

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i recognise a lot of hebrew in the books as well. i'm pretty sure there are bits and pieces of lots of languages, as there are bits and pieces of lots of cultures. and lots of mangled english, derived from the WOT's semi-mythical past.

[BananaOnDrugs]

 

Why must it be darkfriends? As stiff and strong as the Borderlands have been (resololute) in warding against the shadow, why not a nation or city of Borderlanders that have withstood the shadow? Why not a city of Aes Sedai who didn't swear on the oath rod that have been there since the breaking following old tradition?

 

The AoL North Pole expedition decided to make kids...and kids...and a city...and active volcanoes for protection...

Then one day they get bored and travel to SG only to find Shaidar Haran and Rand al'Thor with their pants down.

 

On a more serious note that could be pretty darn awesome. It could also be an AoL prison. Eventually the prisoners got out and defended themselves for 3 thousand years.

 

Either that or there was a zoo somewhere north. The animals evolved in the blight, one day migrated south and stamped the DO. Then Randland. Then the rest of the unknown world. And so came the Triassic period. During the Cretaceous period they evolved some more and created the waygates. Then one of them became bad and one of them became good. The bad one tried to kill everything. The good one sealed the bad one but sacrificed his entire species in the process. Then came humans. Then came channeling. Then came Lanfear.Then there was a zoo somewhere north...