Discuss Egwene

[DemandredFO]

I'll take a stab at it, I haven't read the BWB so I might be wrong, but I think LTT wanted to use saidin and saidar but was denied saidar because wanted her plan. Maybe she was LTT's second-in-command, thus the split when they couldn't agree. It could also be that since pandora's box had been opened, vice was infecting the Light. I could be totally wrong and the BWB may give a different explanation.

[Durinax]

Also, does anybody know what caused the AoL fissure to happen along gender lines? From what i understand as the gender question was not a big deal as it is in the third age, there was no reason for the divide in opinions to be along gender lines. (in the lack of any more information, i find this occurence too, too contrived).

it was due to Letra beign a very good public speaker, and making the potential for failure appearing higher. So she decided that the men would need women to complete the circles, so she convinced women of the required strength levels to sign a pact not to help the men.

[White_star]

...

 

and a part of her will always love Rand, and I think this is what makes her so angry about the whole situation.

i dunno about that. really. i have seen it mentioned before. i think beyond what is decent and generally expected of a human towards their childhood close friend/first love (scarcely a few years beyond that childhood), there is nothing really to suggest anything significant.

It sure doesn't despite the fact that she said TO HIS FACE that she loved him like a brother, and to Elayne's face, "I love him too" she has NEVER demonstrated it, Never told him anything nor shown any kind of affection since Fal Dara in TGH. If she truly does have a heart, as her fans seam to think she does, and truly loves him as she says she does and Rand dies before she does prove/say anything to him, it will(or should) tear her apart as much- if not more- then it did for Rand when Moriane 'died' especially when/if she realizes what a pain in the back side she has ever been to him.

 

OK I'll get off my soap box now.

Drinks on the house!

Cheers!

[Ltsegarra]

On Egwene and the Seachan...

 

As we all know Egwene has developed an extreme fear of what it means to be a "leashed one" vowing to free all channelers. Hence she "hates" the Seachan. As other posters have pointed out she's in a Arrogant phase, that hopefully Gawyne can help her overcome soon. As shown in Aviendhas vision of the possible future, as the Aiel are doomed if they attack the Seachan, so too is it implied that the WhiteTower under Egwene's irrational response to being chained will be doomed if the tower attacks the Seachan breaking "Rands Peace".

Robert Jordan has already sown the seeds of the unchaining of "leashed" ones by uncovering the "Sul'damane's secret" named that they can channel also. But in order for the unchaining to work they MUST NOT be attacked. The Seachan must be allowed a chance to look inwards recognizing what's wrong first with the adman society, then with the empress/goddess outlook. If the Seachan ARE attacked this introspection will be turned outward and against aggression. Also implied by Aviendhas and Aiel future, the Seachan in fact honor Rands Peace under Tuon until they are attacked. The Seachan are shown to be honorable as a people, their leaders are another matter. Tuon brings an opportunity for great change within their society especially being married to Mat. Tuon is shown both the folly of damanes and the folly of not listening to other peoples. Tuon must be given an opportunity to free the damns on her own terms and terms that the Seachan as a whole can accept. Perhaps as willing members of a new Seachan society.

However Egwene must come to understand her own fears and steer the White Tower from making the first move. Aviendha role will be decidedly important for not only the Aiel, but for Egwene and the Whitetower. Which to me, shows the importance of why Robert Jordan had Egwene and Aviendha train together. It so that if Aviendha tell Egwene the prophecy, Egwene will believe it, and hopefully steer the sitters away from also seeking to free the "sisters". Egwene has shown that unlike some Aes Sedai. She can rise above her own personal hatreds, such as Elaida, for the good of the Tower. This is what makes Egwene a great amaryllin seat and Aes Sedai.

Im predicting then in the final book that Egwene must accept peace with the Seachan and bring the Ashaman into the a new/"legendary" Aes Sedai (male and female). After all since book 1 Jordan has implied that only working together was the MOST important works of legend were done by women and men together.

[Elan Tedronai]

i rather egwene led the aes sedai to battle against the seanchan to free the sisters rather than letting women chained like animals because they can simply channel.

 

the seanchan are an abomination and it's a shame darth rand didnt use the choedan kal to simply finish them off

[DemandredFO]

I wouldn't say Egwene's violent hatred of the seanchan is irrational but I do agree that as a leader she must act in the best interest of the world. Rather than simply assume Rand to be insane even though she was told the taint is gone ask him for help freeing the captured sisters and novices which isn't doing a very good job protecting. Speaking of which, do we know how many days before the field of Merrilor the Seanchan get Traveling?

[babuada]

I think there was a comment by Tuon that even if she could channel it does not matter because she does not want to. IMO this may be important and that may be the true way of coming out of collar. You need to give off the lust for power.

[babuada]

i rather egwene led the aes sedai to battle against the seanchan to free the sisters rather than letting women chained like animals because they can simply channel.

 

the seanchan are an abomination and it's a shame darth rand didnt use the choedan kal to simply finish them off

She will not if she thinks it will hurt her power base. But if she thinks that she can finish them off and get some credit, she will do that no matter the cost to others.

[Elan Tedronai]

i rather egwene led the aes sedai to battle against the seanchan to free the sisters rather than letting women chained like animals because they can simply channel.

 

the seanchan are an abomination and it's a shame darth rand didnt use the choedan kal to simply finish them off

She will not if she thinks it will hurt her power base. But if she thinks that she can finish them off and get some credit, she will do that no matter the cost to others.

 

her powerbase is the aes sedai. Ppl who the seanchan are hell bent on collaring to the point of launching a second attack on the tower. They need to be taught a lesson it seems

[anotherfingolfin]

i rather egwene led the aes sedai to battle against the seanchan to free the sisters rather than letting women chained like animals because they can simply channel.

 

the seanchan are an abomination and it's a shame darth rand didnt use the choedan kal to simply finish them off

She will not if she thinks it will hurt her power base. But if she thinks that she can finish them off and get some credit, she will do that no matter the cost to others.

 

her powerbase is the aes sedai. Ppl who the seanchan are hell bent on collaring to the point of launching a second attack on the tower. They need to be taught a lesson it seems

 

so you're saying that Rand should have killed the entire city, filled with normal residents? there are those who say that destroying a manor full of brain-dead/zombie would-be fanatics who would have fought till the death, in order to kill a Foresaken is too much. i don't think very many would agree with destroying a capital city worth of non-compelled innocents, to get to members of the Seanchen.

 

about the Seanchan needing to be "taught a lesson", well i can't agree more. but that is really not going to be achieved by attacking them, or even defeating them in a battle.

[Elan Tedronai]

the ppl should not be killed. but the top dogs and the armies of seanchan should be wiped out!

[RyanDuranGeiger]

i rather egwene led the aes sedai to battle against the seanchan to free the sisters rather than letting women chained like animals because they can simply channel.

 

the seanchan are an abomination and it's a shame darth rand didnt use the choedan kal to simply finish them off

She will not if she thinks it will hurt her power base. But if she thinks that she can finish them off and get some credit, she will do that no matter the cost to others.

 

her powerbase is the aes sedai. Ppl who the seanchan are hell bent on collaring to the point of launching a second attack on the tower. They need to be taught a lesson it seems

 

 

Seems like you think that Aes Sedai are no different because they can channel?

 

Going off that. should they be better than other people then?

 

Their power is like having weapons of mass destruction, and saying if we're not the worlds leaders, we'll destroy you..

So in the Seanchan's eyes, they're stopping terrorists, that will try to over take their kingdom, and enslave their followers.

 

The peasants of Randland don't like the White Tower, they manipulate and threaten for the best (Best of the White Tower) of the world.

 

The peasants under the rule of the Seanchan aren't starving, they aren't getting murdered, raped, beaten, enslaved.. They're being treated fairly and justly. The traveling folk weren't going towards the White Tower, they were going to the Seanchan.

 

The White Tower wouldn't be in power, if they weren't able to channel, they would still be farmers and peasants.

Nobody likes Aes Sedai, and they wouldn't be in power if they couldn't channel, but the peasants won't say "no" to any of them, in fear of their life (I.e To anger an Aes Sedai is to anger a hornets nest, and a 100 other sayings.)

 

 

Well, at least that's what comes to my mind, I never really liked Aes Sedai, I prefer the Seanchan

[babuada]

the ppl should not be killed. but the top dogs and the armies of seanchan should be wiped out!

Actually, Darth Rand was thinking about doing that before he changed in VoG. Any war between fellow human beings leads to the path to DO. War is never an answer.

[Elan Tedronai]

i rather egwene led the aes sedai to battle against the seanchan to free the sisters rather than letting women chained like animals because they can simply channel.

 

the seanchan are an abomination and it's a shame darth rand didnt use the choedan kal to simply finish them off

She will not if she thinks it will hurt her power base. But if she thinks that she can finish them off and get some credit, she will do that no matter the cost to others.

 

her powerbase is the aes sedai. Ppl who the seanchan are hell bent on collaring to the point of launching a second attack on the tower. They need to be taught a lesson it seems

 

 

Seems like you think that Aes Sedai are no different because they can channel?

 

Going off that. should they be better than other people then?

 

Their power is like having weapons of mass destruction, and saying if we're not the worlds leaders, we'll destroy you..

So in the Seanchan's eyes, they're stopping terrorists, that will try to over take their kingdom, and enslave their followers.

 

The peasants of Randland don't like the White Tower, they manipulate and threaten for the best (Best of the White Tower) of the world.

 

The peasants under the rule of the Seanchan aren't starving, they aren't getting murdered, raped, beaten, enslaved.. They're being treated fairly and justly. The traveling folk weren't going towards the White Tower, they were going to the Seanchan.

 

The White Tower wouldn't be in power, if they weren't able to channel, they would still be farmers and peasants.

Nobody likes Aes Sedai, and they wouldn't be in power if they couldn't channel, but the peasants won't say "no" to any of them, in fear of their life (I.e To anger an Aes Sedai is to anger a hornets nest, and a 100 other sayings.)

 

 

Well, at least that's what comes to my mind, I never really liked Aes Sedai, I prefer the Seanchan

 

 

the seanchan are better than the aes sedai because of the security they provide? I have heard it all. I prefer the 'chaos' of tar valon rather than the security of slaves the seanchan offers.

[RyanDuranGeiger]

i rather egwene led the aes sedai to battle against the seanchan to free the sisters rather than letting women chained like animals because they can simply channel.

 

the seanchan are an abomination and it's a shame darth rand didnt use the choedan kal to simply finish them off

She will not if she thinks it will hurt her power base. But if she thinks that she can finish them off and get some credit, she will do that no matter the cost to others.

 

her powerbase is the aes sedai. Ppl who the seanchan are hell bent on collaring to the point of launching a second attack on the tower. They need to be taught a lesson it seems

 

 

Seems like you think that Aes Sedai are no different because they can channel?

 

Going off that. should they be better than other people then?

 

Their power is like having weapons of mass destruction, and saying if we're not the worlds leaders, we'll destroy you..

So in the Seanchan's eyes, they're stopping terrorists, that will try to over take their kingdom, and enslave their followers.

 

The peasants of Randland don't like the White Tower, they manipulate and threaten for the best (Best of the White Tower) of the world.

 

The peasants under the rule of the Seanchan aren't starving, they aren't getting murdered, raped, beaten, enslaved.. They're being treated fairly and justly. The traveling folk weren't going towards the White Tower, they were going to the Seanchan.

 

The White Tower wouldn't be in power, if they weren't able to channel, they would still be farmers and peasants.

Nobody likes Aes Sedai, and they wouldn't be in power if they couldn't channel, but the peasants won't say "no" to any of them, in fear of their life (I.e To anger an Aes Sedai is to anger a hornets nest, and a 100 other sayings.)

 

 

Well, at least that's what comes to my mind, I never really liked Aes Sedai, I prefer the Seanchan

 

 

the seanchan are better than the aes sedai because of the security they provide? I have heard it all. I prefer the 'chaos' of tar valon rather than the security of slaves the seanchan offers.

 

 

If there were people who could destroy cities, kill people, turn invisible and change their appearance (Among thousands of other things) with their mind.. Do you think any country would willingly let them go into power? as opposed you, lets say.. Kidnap, do experiments on them and forcefully use them in war?

If they did manage to go into power, do you think you would appreciate them manipulating your government, telling your president what and how to do everything?

 

Now, if there was someone who had that power, and destroyed a city, with thousands of people.. And you were a leader, would you support a group of people who say they cannot lie, harm anyone or make weapons for people to harm each other?

 

 

I personally don't see how hard it would be, to turn to desperate measures, to avoid a group of people from being able to destroy hundreds upon thousands of people in a matter of days.

[HeWhoComesWithTheDawn]

Once again I could not stand her. First, I can't stand how she treated Gawyn. Even when he saved her life, she didn't know whether she should be thankful or be mad at him for disobeying her orders. Secondly, I can't wait until Rand shows her up in the next book by convincing everybody else that breaking the Seals is the right thing to do. O and my favorite part of ToM (at least one of my favorite parts) was when Perrin showed her up in TAR/Wolf Dream. I loved it when Egwene realized that she wasn't queen of TAR and that Perrin was actually better in it. With all this said about me not liking her, I think she is a great character for the book. I love what Jordan and Sanderson has done with her character (as well as every other character in the book).

[Kahlika]

If there were people who could destroy cities, kill people, turn invisible and change their appearance (Among thousands of other things) with their mind..

 

Humanity can achieve those things without the one power perfectly fine (although we'd probably just have to hide under a table if we wanted to be invisible). I generally don't have an enourmous amount to say in favour of the Oaths, but they're certainly an easy rebuttal to that kind of argument.

 

Do you think any country would willingly let them go into power? as opposed you, lets say.. Kidnap, do experiments on them and forcefully use them in war?

 

As long as they're human beings my expectation would be that their human rights would be respected. That is that they would not be kiddnapped, experimented on etc. Any country not able to respect its citizens human rights is pretty illegitimate to start with imo.

 

If they did manage to go into power, do you think you would appreciate them manipulating your government, telling your president what and how to do everything?

 

Now admittedly I'm Australian, and thus don't have a Presidential system politically, but what you described sounds an awful lot like our existing political parties. Presidents, Prime Ministers and leaders generally are all surrounded by advisors and constantly under pressure from various lobby groups telling them what to do. People don't need to be able to use the one power to do that.

 

Now, if there was someone who had that power, and destroyed a city, with thousands of people.. And you were a leader, would you support a group of people who say they cannot lie, harm anyone or make weapons for people to harm each other?

 

Are you really implying the Oaths aren't true?

 

What city with thousands of people did the Aes Sedai destroy?

 

I personally don't see how hard it would be, to turn to desperate measures, to avoid a group of people from being able to destroy hundreds upon thousands of people in a matter of days.

 

I was going to avoid this, because I have fairly strong feelings on the subject. But using national security rhetoric to justify the introduction and implimentation of excessive measures that have the potential to infringe up the civil and political rights of citizens is very common. It's easy to do, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do, or the best thing for a society.

[Danvighar]

I was re-reading the fight with Mesaana, and the scene where Mesaana attempts to use a dream-a'dam on Egwene in particular. And... I think I saw something for the first time.

 

Some of you above have touched on this tangentially, but here's the summary and the explanation of my thought:

 

I think that Egwene was far more broken by her time as a damane than she or we realize.

 

In this section, Egwene didn't just come across as afraid... This was shades of Rand in its desperation not to be bound, hearkening back to ACoS ch. 34, where on the Seafolk ship he was swamped in claustrophobia, and in Winter's Heart and after, how increasingly, everything that restricted his movement/freedom was a "box". That's the 'reasonable fear rising to an irrational level' I read from her.

 

I think, from what I read in, and read into, that passage, that if this had been the Real World, or if she hadn't had her realization, that Egwene was about 13 seconds from "Tuli is a good damane!" I think this breaking has made her eager to ingratiate and integrate with each group she finds herself part of, just like the converted damane who were only a few weeks ago proud, upstanding Aes Sedai.

 

I don't think she's healed yet, either. She got a partial reprieve, and perhaps it will suffice for the duration of the emergency, but she is still broken, with jagged, raw edges that haven't even begun to scar or heal.

 

And taking this, and re-filtering all that I've seen in the last few books that I disliked about her personality, I see perhaps signs of how I interpret what is described as the need for a victim to exert control - it was certainly there for Rand, and his increasing stress and lack of control when he needed it most led him down a dark path.

 

With Egwene being the female counterpart to Rand, pray that she does not end up following the same path. We really don't need another Accidental Sith, let alone one that people don't naturally fear insanity from her. We covered that with Elaida, after all :P

 

Tangential thought of my own: In many ways, the three Amyrlin Seats have mirrored various failings of the Dragon Reborn. Siuan is as addicted to manipulation (still) as Rand's dark musings on 'using people', Elaida grew visibly more unhinged and angry, just as Rand was not truly 'without emotion' but let his rage build unrecognized as he grew more and more crazy from the Taint. Egwene, who grew up with him, mirrors with her phobia of the Seanchan/a'dam, Rand's phobia of being confined and led around by people trying to manipulate him.

 

Rand got the White Taint to counter the Dark Taint, granting him a reprieve. He may need a temporary death or something to clear it completely, Nynaeve didn't think she stood a chance (I think that it was stamina. Maybe a large circle, all skilled at Healing and taking turns leading as they grew tired, could succeed). Egwene got a temporary reprieve with her mini-revelation (flawed though it was) about Being Aes Sedai and Being the Amyrlin Seat. Hopefully it lasts past the emergency so she can break down in a controlled situation.

[sleepinghour]

I think that Egwene was far more broken by her time as a damane than she or we realize.

 

I think, from what I read in, and read into, that passage, that if this had been the Real World, or if she hadn't had her realization, that Egwene was about 13 seconds from "Tuli is a good damane!" I think this breaking has made her eager to ingratiate and integrate with each group she finds herself part of, just like the converted damane who were only a few weeks ago proud, upstanding Aes Sedai.

I agree with much of what you say, but I think Egwene was like that long before she was collared. When she's first introduced, she's described as a mirror of Nynaeve:

 

Egwene stood a few paces behind the Wisdom, watching intently. Of a height with Nynaeve, and with the same dark coloring, she could at that moment have been a reflection of Nynaeve's mood, arms crossed beneath her breasts, mouth tight with disapproval.

—TEotW

As soon as she left Two Rivers, she stopped braiding her hair and began to emulate Moiraine. Then it was the Tinkers she wanted to be like. Then the Wise Ones. Then the Aes Sedai again. Egwene's a chameleon, for good or worse. She's learned a lot and made other people's strengths her own that way, but also adopted their negative traits and prejudices (mostly from the Aes Sedai).

[Danvighar]

I agree with much of what you say, but I think Egwene was like that long before she was collared. When she's first introduced, she's described as a mirror of Nynaeve:

 

Egwene stood a few paces behind the Wisdom, watching intently. Of a height with Nynaeve, and with the same dark coloring, she could at that moment have been a reflection of Nynaeve's mood, arms crossed beneath her breasts, mouth tight with disapproval.

—TEotW

As soon as she left Two Rivers, she stopped braiding her hair and began to emulate Moiraine. Then it was the Tinkers she wanted to be like. Then the Wise Ones. Then the Aes Sedai again. Egwene's a chameleon, for good or worse. She's learned a lot and made other people's strengths her own that way, but also adopted their negative traits and prejudices (mostly from the Aes Sedai).

 

Point made. I agree, that she's always been a chameleon, but I think the later parallel/counterpoint with Rand's trauma was an intentional theme, even though most of us, reasonably, don't get around to caring about due to her lack of (on-screen) introspection/being called on the carpet.

 

Still, having had the thought, I am unable to entirely dismiss it, and find myself... slightly more sympathetic. Countering that, I am more ready to dismiss areas that her thoughts dogmatically insist on Aes Sedai traditions (or those of the Wise Ones) instead of the plain facts, as 'part of her trauma' rather than 'valid difference of opinion that I just haven't read the reasoning behind it yet'.

 

Speaking of differences of opinion, I was contemplating her insistence on retaining the 3 Oaths and the thought of 'retiring into the Kin' (it would be suitably ironic if releasing the binding did nothing to restore the lost lifespan) - has Egwene actually pointed out to the Aes Sedai, at least the Whites, the likelihood of the Oaths shortening lifespan? I know something was discussed with Siuan, but I've forgotten the details of whether it was just the preservation of the Oaths, or the forgotten price the Aes Sedai pay in years of their lives. I've also forgotten whether it was mentioned to anyone outside her 'most trusted' advisors.

[Ltsegarra]

I think Egwenes thinking about allowing Aes Sedai to "retire" is really a hidden point. I believe that Egwene and traditional Aes Sedai places loyalty to the order first and foremost for your entire life. The dedicate themselves to the order. Robert Jordan has alluded to the fact that this type of mindset is actually hurting the Aes Sedai in the fact that Male channelers were being hunted down and killed/stilled and regular Aes Sedai werent having children.

The Knitting circle proves that life "outside" the confines of the Aes Sedai was more beneficial. The circle ladies live longer, have children that could channel, and developed several weaves that the Aes Sedai have trouble replicating. Really if one looks at the various groups of channeled both male and female, we can see that being an Aes Sedai weakens them in certain areas and strengthen them in other, which is why Egwenes role is most important for the future past TG. In essence Egwene will hopefully return the male and female Aes Sedai to their share glory...whatever that will be.

[Ltsegarra]

I think Egwenes thinking about allowing Aes Sedai to "retire" is really a hidden point. I believe that Egwene and traditional Aes Sedai places loyalty to the order first and foremost for your entire life. The dedicate themselves to the order. Robert Jordan has alluded to the fact that this type of mindset is actually hurting the Aes Sedai in the fact that Male channelers were being hunted down and killed/stilled and regular Aes Sedai werent having children.

The Knitting circle proves that life "outside" the confines of the Aes Sedai was more beneficial. The circle ladies live longer, have children that could channel, and developed several weaves that the Aes Sedai have trouble replicating. Really if one looks at the various groups of channeled both male and female, we can see that being an Aes Sedai weakens them in certain areas and strengthen them in other, which is why Egwenes role is most important for the future past TG. In essence Egwene will hopefully return the male and female Aes Sedai to their share glory...whatever that will be. Egwene also has hopes to have a family..eventually with Gwayn. At least I think so.

[Hadilmir]

As for Cuendillar, Leane Sharif and Bodewhin Cauthon can both make it; Nicola could as well, until she died.

 

I'm pretty sure you know that isn't what Ltsegarra meant... Egwene discovered the Saidar weaves for skimming, traveling, and making cuendillar. He clearly meant discovering the weave, not just being able to perform it. Egwene has also gone toe-to-toe with a Forsaken in case you've already forgotten. Remember her recent battle of wills with Mesaana? That was more of a battle than who is stronger in the power if you ask me. Holding together the White Tower after and during Elaida's reign is a major feat in itself as well. Imagine what would have happened if it had collapsed, with nothing to tie down the wrong-minded Aes Sedai, half could have left to gentle Rand at its falling. Now let's go with her indirect actions- Without her political maneuvering, Elayne and Nynaeve never would have escaped Salidar to go to Ebou Dar in the first place. Also, there is the fact that almost all of the recent victories involving Aes Sedai have used the Saidar gateway, which wouldn't have been possible without her.

 

Nynaeve definitely deserves some extreme credit, I even ranked her as just behind Egwene (Perhaps a tie, but this thread is focused on Egwene) when I made my post. The main reason I don't see her actions at the Cleansing as being world-changing is that Rand had an alternate readily available (Alivia) and she was just a source for Saidar. Just like at the Bowl of the Winds (Her finding the Bowl was incredibly important though)

[dwn]

Speaking of differences of opinion, I was contemplating her insistence on retaining the 3 Oaths and the thought of 'retiring into the Kin' (it would be suitably ironic if releasing the binding did nothing to restore the lost lifespan) - has Egwene actually pointed out to the Aes Sedai, at least the Whites, the likelihood of the Oaths shortening lifespan? I know something was discussed with Siuan, but I've forgotten the details of whether it was just the preservation of the Oaths, or the forgotten price the Aes Sedai pay in years of their lives. I've also forgotten whether it was mentioned to anyone outside her 'most trusted' advisors.

 

Yes, she has. At least Romanda and Lelane know about it. With increasing contact with other groups of channelling women, I expect the use of the Oath Rod, if not the Oaths, will fall out of favour. An organization as traditional as the Aes Sedai are going to need years to come to terms with something like that. The same goes for the other institutional changes that the Aes Sedai need to make.

 

Egwene bashers make a big fuss about her adopting Aes Sedai behaviour, as if she'd be accepted in the Tower (let alone as the leader) if she didn't. Egwene is amazingly progressive, but realizes the change she wants is going to take decades or centuries to achieve.

 

-- dwn

[sleepinghour]

I'm pretty sure you know that isn't what Ltsegarra meant... Egwene discovered the Saidar weaves for skimming, traveling, and making cuendillar. He clearly meant discovering the weave, not just being able to perform it.

Egwene didn't discover how to make cuendillar. They got that weave from Moghedien.