The Aiel Thing in the Epilogue

[Durinax]

You might have been thinking of the Seia Doon of the Shaido Aiel..

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/organizations/aiel/black_eyes.html

 

Now why, if black eyes are unknown among the Aiel, is there an Aiel clan with that name?

 

It's possible, and IMO probable, that they aren't named for the colour of their eyes. Just as Knife Hands don't literally have knves for hands or Stone Dogs aren't dogs made of stone.

 

The mind boggles.. I take your point; but, 'black eyes' are possible, unlike an Aiel version of Edward Scissorhands. I was just wondering if there had indeed once been a black-eyed strain of Aiel. If so, as Sharaman reminds me, they would be dominant and should have spread throughout the population, unless they were removed by some means - migration, perhaps. Although it's unlikely that turning DF would change one's eye colour, they might have been thought to be DFs - so they were chased off, and maybe ended up in the Blight!

any clan like that would have been mentioned by the WO's when they tried to teach rand the history of the aiel. . . or maybe it was during the founding of Rhuidan when they said any clan who does not send a man here shall die out, one could have migrated too far north I guess.

 

Black Eyes are a society not a clan though I beleive

[shadowofomioc]

I personally think they were once Aiel who went seeking death into the Blight but the Dark One took them and twisted them into these new soldiers. Teeth filed to mock their old ways, red veils to showcase their new allegiance, etc.

 

May be the start of a new type of army for the Dark One outside of twisted trollocs and the like. Take the supreme skills of the Aiel, add in some possible channeling ability and twisted darkness from the Dark One himself ( itself? ) and you get a really bad enemy to face on the battlefield.

 

Could be future assassins too.

 

And we have not heard anything or seen anything about a Dreadlord. So who knows, those Dreadlords that will command the armies may indeed by twisted Aiel who go into the blight to die, but end up serving the dark one instead.

[toss the dice]

Im not one for the Shara theory. First of all we have a possible description of what a Sharan looks like. In Knife of Dreams their is someone who is thought to be sharan with a bright coat and a musical tone and dark features. Also, Graendal captured their rulers I believe? We get a description from that which does not match the description in the epilogue of ToM.

 

Second I do not like the Land of Madmen theory. The land of the madmen is filled with channelers (both male and female) who would kill with the power if anything. Other than the madmen their are citizens who deeply distrust mainlanders and would kill them on site. Doesnt seem like the people who are described in ToM.

 

I posted a thread called Evil Aiel about this. take a look if you want

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/69916-the-evil-aiel/page__p__2272805#entry2272805

[Vardar]

I'm with the people who say they are Aiel. But I have yet to decide which camp I'd go with of the following two:

 

Aiel from a mirror world that has fallen for shadow. This would definitely explain where Demandred has been, why the other Forsaken are ignorant of his whereabouts and how he has been able to gather an army when there really aren't any armies left for taking.

 

 

Then again, I also think that Fain could be behind them. Transforming the remaining Shaido into something horrible. He was described "turning" Trollocs into something even more fearsome in the prologue, so I suppose it would make sense that he can transform Aiel too. Would be fitting that only times he/his doings were described were in Prologue and Epilogue.

 

 

 

 

Just because someone said "These weren't Aiel. They were something else. Something terrible." doesn't mean they aren't Aiel.

 

I mean, people do say in real world that "They weren't human" or something similar to that, when describing something rather sick and/or weird.

 

This one makes the most sense to me. And it what I figured,. If the DO had an army, A FREAKING Army of Male Channelers at his disposal do you think he would have waited this long to attack? Hell, as soon as the Forsaken were lose, Grab your thousands of male channelers (More if you bred them) and level the entire freaking world. I mean who could stop you? Nothing short of the entire Seanchan nation, and honestly they'd be swept away too from sheer shock.

[Jonrox]

I asked Sanderson at a book signing "Do all the Aiel male channelers who go to the blight to die, actually die?"

 

He said it was a really good question and gave me a RAFO card. He also asked me if I had finished the book already, which indicated to me he knew exactly what I was asking about since these Aiel are at the end.

[DemandredFO]

Barriga was clearly dying, so if they were channelers, why use a bazooka to kill a fly? I think they were Male Aiel. Why show us the blight village unless something will come of it? It's to late for the Land of Madmen. It could be Shara, but even if they were scouts, why invade through the blight? 99% sure Male Aiel channelers.

[Tai'shar Malkier]

i bet you theyy're from shara

 

 

I think that this is right - since Shara keeps coming up but we never see much of it.

 

I could also see them being corrupted Aiel, but there is no indication of channeling, so I think that is too much of a leap.

 

I think the male channelers with the enemy forces are turned Black Tower Asha'man. It is pretty obvious that is what is going on there, so why would we need another group of male dark channelers?

 

I agree, this is an unnecessary overlap of the one power, we have AS and AM and forsaken and rand, if these were chanellers, id say they'd have to be dreadlords to be introduced this late, and seeing as how dark friends delight in displaying their power by using the one power, and they killed with a knife, it is unlikely that they can use it.

[Vardar]

Barriga was clearly dying, so if they were channelers, why use a bazooka to kill a fly? I think they were Male Aiel. Why show us the blight village unless something will come of it? It's to late for the Land of Madmen. It could be Shara, but even if they were scouts, why invade through the blight? 99% sure Male Aiel channelers.

 

Again. Why wait to release an army of channelers? If the shadow had them, this whole war could have been won years ago. Who would have stopped them? Teach them travelling, assault the white tower directly, never more than a few hundred there at a time, mop up other resistence. I stand by it, if the shadow had an army of HUNDRED of battle trained channelers at it's disposal, and it never used them (Not even counting the fact that it could call all the Black Ajah out to link with them) then it's stupid.

 

In my mind, that would be a horrible horrible plot twist. We keep hearing about all these great generals on the side of the Shadow, you're telling me no one thought, Oh wait, we have a few hundred male channelers from the Aiel? Hell, why wait to attack, lemme grab up the Black Ajah, get some linkage going on and DESTROY THE FREAKING WORLD 2 YEARS AGO!

[boli]

I have always found it weird that Aiel were referred to as "black-eyed"; when they were generally anything but dark eyed.

[Vardar]

I have always found it weird that Aiel were referred to as "black-eyed"; when they were generally anything but dark eyed.

 

It's Black-veiled Aiel.

[Suttree]

I have always found it weird that Aiel were referred to as "black-eyed"; when they were generally anything but dark eyed.

 

It's Black-veiled Aiel.

 

People call wrongly call them black eyed Aiel as well...

 

Winter's Heart, Chapter 27: To Surprise Queens and Kings

 

Where the others carried their years with grace, Tenobia of Saldaea flaunted youth if not beauty, with her eagle's beak of a nose and wide mouth. Her tilted, almost purple eyes, level with Elayne's, were her best feature. Perhaps her only one. Where the others dressed simply, even if they did rule nations, her pale blue dress was worked with pearls and sapphires and she wore more sapphires in her hair. Suitable for the court, but hardly for a camp. And where they were courteous. . . . "Under the Light, Merilille Sedai," Tenobia said in a high voice, frowning, "I know you speak truth, but she looks more a child than an Aes Sedai. You did not mention she would be bringing a black-eyed Aiel."

 

...

 

"Black?" Aviendha muttered in confusion. "My eyes are not black. I never saw black eyes except on a peddler until I crossed the Dragonwall."

 

POD, ch. 20: "Tisn't right, if you ask me. He's one of them black-eyed Aielmen, I hear. We ought to march on Caemlyn and drive him and all them Aiel back where they come from. "

[Barid Bel Medar]

Ahhh, I thought I did see quotes about black-eyed Aiel somewhere in the series! I had been looking for ages.

 

This is from the Borderlanders, possibly a sneaky reference to these "Aiel Creatures"?

[Suttree]

This is from the Borderlanders, possibly a sneaky reference to these "Aiel Creatures"?

 

But there is one from Andor as well...

[RandA lThor]

I think that these Aiel creatures are only the male channelers that went to the Blight. The 13x13 trick turned them into Dark Friends and they got a little makeover. That makes the most sense to me.

[Logian]

Hi all this is my first time posting, and I don't know if this theory has been put forward yet. If it has forgive me and ignore. I read a lot of theories about them being the cannibals from Shara, or channelers turned by the 13 X 13. Has anyone put out there that they may be the dead aiel who traveled north to fight in the blight?

It makes sense to me that the dark one, being lord of the dead who can raise the forsaken and cram them into a new body, could cram some of his more evil creatures into the corpses of the fallen. Plus, by this time in the story he's almost free.

[Suttree]

Hi all this is my first time posting, and I don't know if this theory has been put forward yet. If it has forgive me and ignore. I read a lot of theories about them being the cannibals from Shara, or channelers turned by the 13 X 13. Has anyone put out there that they may be the dead aiel who traveled north to fight in the blight?

It makes sense to me that the dark one, being lord of the dead who can raise the forsaken and cram them into a new body, could cram some of his more evil creatures into the corpses of the fallen. Plus, by this time in the story he's almost free.

 

Them being dead is a new twist all your own. But yes, many people think they are the Aiel channelers that go to fight the DO that have been twisted in some way to serve the shadow.

[Duskfire]

Barriga was clearly dying, so if they were channelers, why use a bazooka to kill a fly? I think they were Male Aiel. Why show us the blight village unless something will come of it? It's to late for the Land of Madmen. It could be Shara, but even if they were scouts, why invade through the blight? 99% sure Male Aiel channelers.

 

Again. Why wait to release an army of channelers? If the shadow had them, this whole war could have been won years ago. Who would have stopped them? Teach them travelling, assault the white tower directly, never more than a few hundred there at a time, mop up other resistence. I stand by it, if the shadow had an army of HUNDRED of battle trained channelers at it's disposal, and it never used them (Not even counting the fact that it could call all the Black Ajah out to link with them) then it's stupid.

 

In my mind, that would be a horrible horrible plot twist. We keep hearing about all these great generals on the side of the Shadow, you're telling me no one thought, Oh wait, we have a few hundred male channelers from the Aiel? Hell, why wait to attack, lemme grab up the Black Ajah, get some linkage going on and DESTROY THE FREAKING WORLD 2 YEARS AGO!

 

But you are assuming that 1) The Dark One isnt controlled by the pattern to some extent, and 2) the Dragon Reborn doesnt need to be around for him to be released. The mirror world Rand went to, the Trollocs had beaten Hawkwing, yet presumably the Blight still remained, the Dark One hadnt been freed, etc etc. More and more I thinking that the DR is the only one who can truly free the Dark One.

[Suttree]

But you are assuming that 1) The Dark One isnt controlled by the pattern to some extent,

 

We know he's not. The DO per RJ is outside of the pattern.

 

Robert Jordan

 

The people, the Heroes who are bound to the Wheel, are the corrective mechanisms. Human behavior is throwing the Pattern out. It's throwing the balance off. And the Wheel spins out the proper correctives. Put everything back in the balance. So not even the Forsaken are apart from that, they're not outside. The only things that are outside are the Creator and the Dark One. Neither is affected by the Pattern.

[jwood01]

I can't believe I just scanned all 11 pages of this thread!

 

 

Many, many posts claiming the EP are either turned male Aiel channelers OR a renegade Aiel sept in the blight that may (or may not) serve the DO.

 

However, I have not seen a post (I could've missed it in my scan) that ties the two together, i.e., male Aiel channelers started a sept in the blight. Aiel male chanelers that were either turned, were DF's to begin with, or chickened out were given kidnaped borderlander women to breed with; thus, setting up a renegade Aiel sept in the blight, of which the regular Aiel have no knowledge of.

 

This would explain why they have dark eyes, and why a knife was used instead of channeling. It would also answer the "Blank in the Blight" mystery. The filling of the teeth and the unveiling to kill could be how their separate culture has changed from being isolated in the blight overtime. Part of why the regular Aiel veil may be due to being originally ashamed of killing due to their pacifist origins (I know this isn't how it started, but could be a reason why it persisted). Unveiling to kill suggests wanting your opponent to see your face when they kill you which fits with filling your teeth to scare the sh*t out of your opponent.

[Vardar]

Barriga was clearly dying, so if they were channelers, why use a bazooka to kill a fly? I think they were Male Aiel. Why show us the blight village unless something will come of it? It's to late for the Land of Madmen. It could be Shara, but even if they were scouts, why invade through the blight? 99% sure Male Aiel channelers.

 

Again. Why wait to release an army of channelers? If the shadow had them, this whole war could have been won years ago. Who would have stopped them? Teach them travelling, assault the white tower directly, never more than a few hundred there at a time, mop up other resistence. I stand by it, if the shadow had an army of HUNDRED of battle trained channelers at it's disposal, and it never used them (Not even counting the fact that it could call all the Black Ajah out to link with them) then it's stupid.

 

In my mind, that would be a horrible horrible plot twist. We keep hearing about all these great generals on the side of the Shadow, you're telling me no one thought, Oh wait, we have a few hundred male channelers from the Aiel? Hell, why wait to attack, lemme grab up the Black Ajah, get some linkage going on and DESTROY THE FREAKING WORLD 2 YEARS AGO!

 

But you are assuming that 1) The Dark One isnt controlled by the pattern to some extent, and 2) the Dragon Reborn doesnt need to be around for him to be released. The mirror world Rand went to, the Trollocs had beaten Hawkwing, yet presumably the Blight still remained, the Dark One hadnt been freed, etc etc. More and more I thinking that the DR is the only one who can truly free the Dark One.

 

Still makes 0 sense to me. He wants destruction, not to be freed. Hundreds of mad channelers could destroy the world (They nearly did before), so why would he not use them. Hell, if push came to shove they could bring him Rand, who could stop that force (2 years ago that is).

 

I like the theory, it just doesn't make any sense to me. saving that kind of power when at the time nothing could touch it!

[Stormofheaven]

I see that alot of people are trying to use the 13X13. However, you have to remember that if you have 50 + male channelers, they will eventually go insame destroying the world. Furthermore, after 1000's of years there would be word of this. They wouldn't be able to catch all the male channelers and how would they know if the all the aiel that go up can channel. As well, we don't know anything about the 13X13. Does it have to be a mix of channelers? Male and Female? Just Female? Just Male? Etc. I think the 13X13 trick is going on in the Black tower, but I think this is different. Just my thoughts.

[Durinax]

I see that alot of people are trying to use the 13X13. However, you have to remember that if you have 50 + male channelers, they will eventually go insame destroying the world. Furthermore, after 1000's of years there would be word of this. They wouldn't be able to catch all the male channelers and how would they know if the all the aiel that go up can channel. As well, we don't know anything about the 13X13. Does it have to be a mix of channelers? Male and Female? Just Female? Just Male? Etc. I think the 13X13 trick is going on in the Black tower, but I think this is different. Just my thoughts.

I have to say we have no idea about the 13x13 except it includes channellers and myrdraal and is used to force convert people.

as for the 50+ male channellers I would think if they turned to the DO he would extend his protection to them

[MountaineerWV]

I don't particularly care for any of the theories presented.

 

The bizarro Aiel theory popped up because of the dying borderlander's initial impression. Turned Aiel Channellers? Why not use them prior to this? Sharans or people from the Land of Mad Men...why not just introduce armies from Mirror Worlds or Parallel Worlds.

 

I don't have a good answer, but neither have I read a good theory.

 

The only thing I would venture to guess is that there is a link between the veiled killers and the Blight village that Perrin destroyed.

[Luckers]

Barriga was clearly dying, so if they were channelers, why use a bazooka to kill a fly? I think they were Male Aiel. Why show us the blight village unless something will come of it? It's to late for the Land of Madmen. It could be Shara, but even if they were scouts, why invade through the blight? 99% sure Male Aiel channelers.

 

Again. Why wait to release an army of channelers? If the shadow had them, this whole war could have been won years ago. Who would have stopped them? Teach them travelling, assault the white tower directly, never more than a few hundred there at a time, mop up other resistence. I stand by it, if the shadow had an army of HUNDRED of battle trained channelers at it's disposal, and it never used them (Not even counting the fact that it could call all the Black Ajah out to link with them) then it's stupid.

 

In my mind, that would be a horrible horrible plot twist. We keep hearing about all these great generals on the side of the Shadow, you're telling me no one thought, Oh wait, we have a few hundred male channelers from the Aiel? Hell, why wait to attack, lemme grab up the Black Ajah, get some linkage going on and DESTROY THE FREAKING WORLD 2 YEARS AGO!

 

But you are assuming that 1) The Dark One isnt controlled by the pattern to some extent, and 2) the Dragon Reborn doesnt need to be around for him to be released. The mirror world Rand went to, the Trollocs had beaten Hawkwing, yet presumably the Blight still remained, the Dark One hadnt been freed, etc etc. More and more I thinking that the DR is the only one who can truly free the Dark One.

 

Still makes 0 sense to me. He wants destruction, not to be freed. Hundreds of mad channelers could destroy the world (They nearly did before), so why would he not use them. Hell, if push came to shove they could bring him Rand, who could stop that force (2 years ago that is).

 

I like the theory, it just doesn't make any sense to me. saving that kind of power when at the time nothing could touch it!

 

Firstly, a couple of hundred men couldn't break the world again. A couple of thousand couldn't. In the Breaking there were hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

 

Secondly, the Dark One doesn't just want global destruction, as you suggest. He wants the destruction of the Wheel itself, and to achieve that he needs his freedom. To that effect he has, in a great many ways, not used the tools at hand in order to lull the Light into a false sense of security which he's exploiting by turning them against each other. That is what the 'Let the Lord of Chaos Rule' policy is all about, and its the same reason that the Trollocs have been kept on a Leash, and Darkfriends havn't done any big open nastiness.

 

Re-read the scene where Demandred gives the Let the Lord of Chaos Rule command--Mesaana renumirates on how its a risky plan, but how it could win them everything.

[TristanWebb]

If the world is broken enough that the pattern couldn't form the 4th age as it is supposed to, if the theme is say an empire taking over the world as Avi's vision suggests and all the people were dead, perhaps that would break the wheel and tear the age lace. Is there only 2 options: either the DO breaks free and destroys the world or he doesn't and the wheel keeps turning. Or is there a third and fourth, that the pattern is destroyed but the DO is locked up with no chance of ever being free or that the DO as killed which breaks the wheel as the second and third ages can't work to the pattern?

 

I like the binary option myself, but Rand still seems intent on the 4th option.