The Aiel Thing in the Epilogue

[Vardar]

Holy crap this thing is interesting!!!

[Sebasatia]

Back to original topic: the red-veiled "Aiel."

 

Okay here goes. Been giving this a bit of thought.

 

These beings are remarkably like the Aiel from the 3FL and most likely branched off from that population group (similarities are many, including dress, veiling, and weapons) at some time.

 

Now...where could they branch off to?

 

Obviously not the West (Randland). The ocean is a bit of an inhibitor to the South (considering also their fear of water). The Blight is an inhibitor to the North.

 

This leaves us with the East.

 

Yes, I think they came from Shara. I also wonder what happened to the Aiel clans that refused to enter Rhuidien with the Jenn Aiel so many centuries ago. I think that these are good candidates for those people.

 

Which begs the question: how did they end up on the blightborder? Some sneaky Forsaken is involved...could it be the one whose plans remain so mysterious? Is Demandred ready with an army of Sharan channelers and fighters at his back?

 

I think so.

[Apple Scruff]

This is bloody, flaming fantastic! I love all these theories, even the completely mad ones!

 

So, they are dark-Aiel, started that way or turned via 13X13 that bred with captured female Borderlanders developing dark eyes and a twisted culture.

 

Or, they are Sharans that are somehow akin to or split off from Aiel, even though they have complete opposite physical descriptions.

 

Or, they are Finns that Mat somehow released into the world by escaping the ToG.

 

Or, they are Gholam.

 

Or, Aiel from an alternate reality.

 

And, the LoMM is chok full of male Sea Folk channellers that built some boats and are attacking Seanchan!

 

I love all these things!

 

Also, I don't think the Black-Eyed Aiel thing is a mistake or coincidence. I think they've been around awhile whoever or whatever they are.

[Guest Limbonik]

I think they're either the Aelfinn or Eelfinn in disguise, maybe hoping for more "channeler snacks" or another off shoot from the Da'shain Aiel.

 

Or MAYBE they came out of the ter'angreal in Rhuidean after Aviendha "messed" with it...

[Sightblinder'sMinder]

My initial thought on first read was they were Aelfinn/Eelfinn due to their pointed teeth (plus, it comes not long after the Ghenjei chapter, so, admittedly, they were on my mind), but then I thought that couldn't possibly be right, because Barriga makes no mention of their snake-like and/or fox-like appearance. 

 

But then I started thinking about Mat's first encounter with the Finn and I changed my mind back to my original position. At first glance, Mat thought the Aelfinn were human. It took him a moment or two before he realized they were "something else". And that's the exact same reaction Barriga had. He thought they were human at first, Aielmen in particular, until they removed their veils, at which point he thought they were "something else". 

 

Granted, "something else" could simply imply a people other than the Aiel, but "something" instead of "someone" makes it much more ambiguous. Plus, the full quote is, "They were something else. Something terrible". In my mind, "something else" paired with "something terrible" definitely alludes to something other than human, rather than renegade Aiel or Sharans. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but I have a feeling Sanderson was being vague for a reason. 

 

And, if that's correct, here we have a humanoid creature with pointed teeth that moves with a "sleek grace" (so much so, Barriga mistakes them for Myrddraal at first glance) that are presumably tall enough to be Aiel. Not only that, but Barriga thought they were dressed in black and brown before he realized they were veiled in red. I got the impression they had come out of nowhere, as if they had materialized out of thin air, or stepped out of the shadows (that much isn't made clear, but invoking the imagery of a Myrddraal definitely points to that - especially since Myrdraal are always compared to snakes). Sounds pretty Finn-ish to me (read: Finn-ish, not Finnish). 

 

Of course, there's problems with that theory. Namely, we don't even know if the Finn can enter the world of Randland or not (but we do know humans from Randland can enter their world, so it seems likely it should work the other way around). We also don't know why they'd want to enter Randland, or why they'd be in the Blight of all places, or why they'd be wearing red veils like Aielmen. We can be fairly certain they're not in league with the Dark One (though, they're not exactly opposed to him either) so the Last Battle probably isn't of much concern to them. They could be after Mat and/or Moiraine, but why they're in the Blight, I don't know. It could be as others have said, and Mat unwittingly unleashed them upon the world. It's difficult to say based on the little information we have about them. But, in any case, even though I can't establish a motive, the Finn do fit the description, as far as I can tell. So, that's the direction I'm leaning. 

[Suttree]

You really should get around to reading the early release materials for AMoL Sightblinders. Just saying...

[Sightblinder'sMinder]

You really should get around to reading the early release materials for AMoL Sightblinders. Just saying...

 

I'm trying to hold off until the whole thing comes out. It's killing me - It's like Mat's letter from Verin - but I'm going to remain in the dark (pun intended) for at least a little longer. I just started reading New Spring, so that should tie me over for a day or two, at least. After that, I don't know what I'll do. Go insane, probably. 

 

-----

 

But, entertain me if you will. Here's an explanation for why the Finn would be in the Blight (if it hasn't already been proposed somewhere in this endless thread), they could be feeding on Trollocs... Yes, that's right. Filthy, stinking Trollocs. Why? Because Trollocs are supposedly consumed by emotion; rage and terror mostly, but that seems to be right up the Finn's alley. 

 

So, if early AMoL already reveals all this stuff, feel free to ignore my inane ramblings. But it would be pretty cool if there was a creature that "ate" Trollocs (in a sense), since we're always hearing about humans in Trolloc cookpots. 

[Bobwheel]

Anyone else wonder what that black tower with all the ancient items that Moridin lives in the blight is?

 

I wonder if it's the old Hall of the Servants corrupted and preserved in the blight. Just my wacky theory.

 

Those Red Veiled Aiel definitely have to be Aiel even though they have black eyes. I wonder of Janduin is there corrupted leader to face Rand? Just because some Aiel came back and said they saw Luc kill him doesn't mean he actually died when they left. 

[Morden]

Havent read the pre-release either myself, but I was kinda hoping that Aginor had done a bit more cross-species work. Imagine a cross between the finns and a myrrdral, would be pretty fierce, not gonna happen though dont think. Just feel like Aginor had almost nothing to give to the 3rd age as his AoL use was creating beasties

[wotfan4472]

Going from the red veil, and in particular the pointed teeth........... I have to say a new type of Shadowspawn not seen yet. Maybe Jumara?

 

Sammael in LoC said when speaking with Graendal that Jumara could change shape when young, but old Jumara could not and became known as Worms. Also this scene is set just South of Heeth Tower. I know this, because the man about to die is the merchant mentioned by the commander of Heeth Tower in the Prologue. Just a theory I have had since I read the book. I have been waiting to see a Jumara on screen since I read somewhere that they are listed in the Shadowspawn ranks. These threads are way cool!!! Enjoying it!!!!!

[Knivy]

Them being jumara is pretty nonsensical.. Aren't worms the larval stage of them?  The size difference just doesnt work out, in my opinion.

[Ozzie_aiel]

They could be a new kind of spadowspawn, basically a negative image of the Aiel made from those who have fallen in the Blight.

 

I doubt Sharans are in the habit of practising cannibalism, their society is too advanced for that. As for warriors from the Land of Madmen, this is a possibility but why use them in the borderlands amid hordes of trollocs when they would be much more useful shock troops in the south?

 

Corrupted aiel is also possible but only if the original tribesmen were caught many centuries earlier, but these would still have the some colouring as normal aiel.

[wotfan4472]

My jumara theory was based on the simple fact that Sammael spoke of them as one whom knew both what the jumara could do and one whom watched them in action. It is interesting to me that the Aes Sedai know of the worms, and also know that this shadowspawn is capable of more - much more. Or why have them mentioned so early?  The only reson to me is that the jumara were held back by the Shadow until TG and then unleashed.

[Knivy]

I personally think they have gone feral.  Possibly in their infant stage they dont have the intelligence to obey orders, which is why they arent part of border raids.  They seem like theyd be pretty effective there.

[he who comes with a bong]

With what is out there now that we know this thread is far more humerous than it once was great stuff for sure.

[Knivy]

Shh some of us havent read yet.  Only 34 more days.

[newxr]

My initial thought on first read was they were Aelfinn/Eelfinn due to their pointed teeth

 

This was and still is my position. I mentioned the same in the "said it first" thread.

 

Unlike some others who think that it may have been Matt/Thom and their escape from the ToG as the catalyst for the Finns to come out; I think it was Olver and the fact that he won S&L. Although I have little evidence I think the ToG is a form of prison and the only release was someone winning S&L on the outside. Given how easily Morodin was able to come into the ToG and release Lanfear I assume that the DO has some influence over the running of Finn world. As such, if my prediction is correct, the red veiled "aiel" will actually fight the one who released them i.e Olver - making Olver a significant part of the end game. This is  something that RJ has previously indicated as being likely.

[Suttree]

- making Olver a significant part of the end game. This is something that RJ has previously indicated as being likely.

 

Would love to see how you came up with this concerning RJ and Olver?

[Balefire to da face!]

Wow, I remember this thread.

 

Since it has to do with aMoL pre-release details I will put it in spoilers....

 

 

I would say I nailed this one pretty good. I have never been a very good theoryizer, but it looks like my Isam predication was spot on and I seem to be the first one to tie the CRAD's directly with the "Blank" in the Blight. I look forward to details about how this has been a long simmering Ishy plot for a few thousand years.

 

[wotfan4472]

I do have one problem with the Finn theory. If they could enter Randland, why not go straight for Moiraine and especially Mat? Or, put another way, if they had the ability to leave their world, wouldn't they come out of the Tower of Ghenjei after Mat? That is why I think they are jumara. They WILL obey Moridin, since he is communicating with the DO in real time, going by Graendal's scene after escaping Nattrin's Barrow.

[newxr]

I can point to a direct site however Jordan has confirmed that Olver has a purpose other than being a red herring.

[Guest Kyle Pelletier]

If the DO is able to take a soul of a person after they die, and stick them into another body who is alive, whats to say that it can't be done with the trollocs and they are placed inside captured Aiel? just a thought.

[Viperswhip]

I can point to a direct site however Jordan has confirmed that Olver has a purpose other than being a red herring.

He opened the letter and probably saved someone or something I can't go into on the General board. Maybe his only purpose was to be a little kid and open things that he was not supposed to. I think that's all kids are good for in real life as well.

[Suttree]

I can point to a direct site however Jordan has confirmed that Olver has a purpose other than being a red herring.

Found it...

 

Interview: Jan 16th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Tim Kington (Paraphrased)

Question

Is Olver Gaidal Cain?

Robert Jordan

No. I didn't really think that this would last as long as it has. The timing is wrong. He has another reason for being there besides being a red herring, though.

QUESTION

He's too old.

ROBERT JORDAN

Yes. Time in Tel'aran'rhiod and the real world run at different rates, but it never runs backwards. You may spend an hour in Tel'aran'rhiod, and a day has passed when you get back, or you may spend a day, and an hour has passed when you get back, but you'll never go in on Tuesday and come back on Monday.

QUESTION

Is the difference in time constant?

ROBERT JORDAN

No. It's fairly random. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow, sometimes the same as real time.

QUESTION

It's different for different people, then?

ROBERT JORDAN

Yes. Unless they're together in Tel'aran'rhiod. Then the same amount of time passes for them obviously.

[Suttree]

So apparently Terez and Marie Curie are in Charleston going through RJ's notes that are at the College of Charleston. Interesting tidbit about the rva and the eye. I imagine we have one hell of an update coming to the Theoryland Q&A database.

 

Terez ‏@Terez27 2h

The main purpose of the red-veiled Aiel was to find the Eye and "blind" it.