Moiraine

[Luckers]

Go.

[dwn]

The saddest part about Moiraine's rescue is that she seems to have lost her kesiera.

 

-- dwn

[Crossroad]

Well we all know Moiraine has been brought back for some reason and I think it has to do with supporting Rand and Nynaeve with Callandor.

[Random Man]

I found it quite intriguing that the Finns had the ability to actually drain her strength in the One Power. How in the Light would that be possible?

 

Also, I wonder if she was kept the whole time where they found her, Snow-White style. She was in some sort of induced sleep, it looked like -- still makes me wonder whether they fed her.

 

I also wonder if one of her requests was for her bond with Lan to be severed -- if they were capable of doing so. That way everyone would think she was dead and Lan would go follow his own path.

[Cazajay]

Did you notice that when Thom was holding Moiraine and took of her bracelet he said to Mat it looks like a ter'angreal an Eelfinn in the room of Bonds said in reply "Its an angreal it can be used to pay her price"

It was kind of sneaky of them as they have admitted that they never discussed a Price with Moiraine who went through a doorway Ter'angreal.

They also chose to put the angreal on her to drain much more of her power so obviously Moiraine didn't ask for the angreal as part of her 3 needs/wants as she had it in her possession already when she fell through the doorway.

So it begs the question what were her 3 wishes?

[f3llyn]

Actually Moiraine specifically says that she asked for it as one of her three demands.

 

pg 824-

"I asked for it, actually, as one of my three demands. I did not realize they would end up using it against me."

 

And hi, my first post on these forums..

[fborch]

Very interesting to find out the Finns feed on the ability to channel. Wonder if she can be severed and healed back up.

[Guest]

Nevertheless, she is as strong or slightly stronger than she was with it, so at the end of the day she didnt lose much. This angreal is hers, not the white towers, so practically there is no change.

 

To me, this rises a speculation though.

 

Do channelers already strong in the power benefit more than weaker ones with angreal?

 

By using the channeler strength meaasure on 13depository, lets say we have a whole bunch of angreals, we have a few channelers above 16 in power, and an equal amount of below level 10 in str.

 

which group should they give angreals to? those weaker or stronger? (Thinking the WT as a whole, and that that one organization is one unit) Where would we come out on top ?

 

I guess this depends on whether an angreal increases power by % or by given levels.

 

Thoughts?

[Jeangray]

I am ecstatic to have Moiraine back, as she is my favorite character, but a few things are bothering me:

 

Her de-powering. While other characters who matter are powering up, it is disappointing to see her powered down, not to mention that it has already been done with Siuan, Leane and arguably Morgase. Yes, she can still advise, but Moiraine has been a warrior as much as Lan and that's like seeing Lan lose an arm or a leg. Yes, she can use angreal, but she could do it previously too. Also, isn't channeling through an angreal more tiring?

 

The reason for her needing rescue was also a bit disappointing. Personally, I had hoped that she _had to_ to spend all her wishes on something crucial for the Light's victory.

 

And if Moiraine knew that bargaining her way out wasn't an option, why ask to keep an angreal? Why not go for broke and ask for the strongest sa'angreal that the Finn had? Not to mention that the bracelet is kind of evilish in appearance.

 

Also, how is it that Moiraine, who had seen their possible escape in the rings didn't tell them that ashanderei was the key? She was already conscious at that point. "I wish you wouldn't have come, but I knew you would" is kind of strange too, since she wrote that letter without which they wouldn't have showed up, after all.

 

And finally, her offer to _throw away_ an angreal on the eve of TG was downright bizarre. Was she practicing headology with Thom? I.e. she was certain that he wouldn't take her up on it, but needed to confront him with this choice, so that he'd accept her fully?

 

Now, what I am hoping for next is that Moiraine's remaining 2 wishes are suitably epic and that one of them will give her AoL channeling knowledge, which she will use creatively, so that she remains effective without needing to be a powerhouse.

I also feel that Mat's new appreciation for Moiraine needs to be cemented by them working hand-in-hand to save Caemlyn. Mat's one conspicuous weak point as a general of Light for TG so far was his near-complete ignorance of the channeling factor on the battlefield - IMHO, this needs to be remedied ASAP.

[karehiro]

Well, it goes without saying that I'm immensely glad to see her. I have to admit though that I was disappointed when I read she was de-powered. Even with the angreal there, I just don't like that development. Hopefully she got something good in return for all that she's been through.

 

And we already know she's the one needed in order for the Last Battle to be won, so I'm not worried over any lack of major role for her. I'm almost positive that she'll be the 2nd woman to link with Rand when they go off to Shayol Ghul. That would be the best thing, and also the most gratifying to read in my opinion.

[Guest]

could it be so simply that one of the things she got is full knowledge of callandor? how to use it safely and more efficiently ?

[didymos]

Also, how is it that Moiraine, who had seen their possible escape in the rings didn't tell them that ashanderei was the key? She was already conscious at that point.

 

She doesn't remember everything from the Rhuidean ter'angreal, just bits and pieces. She was also barely aware inside 'Finnland. She seems to sleep again when Thom starts playing his music right after that. Combine those two things, and there's a third possibility: that she never even saw Mat use the ashandarei in her visions at Rhuidean. I mean, do you think those things actually show you what you're doing while sleeping in your possible futures? It seems pretty clear that they show you stuff you might actually experience consciously. Now add in another, fourth possibility: she did see it, but she also saw that telling Mat about it would somehow cause it to fail, much like how he had to ask to see her letter to Thom or the rescue would fail. IOW, there's plenty of possible reasons for her not saying anything, so it's not really an issue.

 

"I wish you wouldn't have come, but I knew you would" is kind of strange too, since she wrote that letter without which they wouldn't have showed up, after all.

 

Yes, but she also said in that letter that there was no guarantee of success. She could have easily believed they'd stumbled into one of the "failure futures" at that point. Also, read the letter again: she didn't know from the visions that the rescue attempt itself was inevitable. She says "it may be" in it. But she knew they'd come because she knew them and believed that that was who they were, but she was wishing that one of the futures in which they never tried had happened so at least they would have lived.

[Dams1986]

So if the Finns can give Mat memories of great generals, could they have given Moiraine vital knowledge about Callandor/TG? Considering we've had to wait 6 books to finally see her again, we can count on her doing something badass in tMoL so you guys can stop worrying about that! :D

[nogoodatnames]

I wish there had been more of a reunion. I suspect that her final wishes are suitably epic, probably along the lines of knowledge of how to win the last battle. I wouldn't be suprised if one of her wishes concerns how keep Mat/Perin/Rand alive afterwards.

 

Of course I am looking forward to a Rand/Moiraine reunion, however I think Nynaeve and Moiraine will be far more interesting.

[Demon_AS]

And if Moiraine knew that bargaining her way out wasn't an option, why ask to keep an angreal? Why not go for broke and ask for the strongest sa'angreal that the Finn had? Not to mention that the bracelet is kind of evilish in appearance.

It makes me wonder if it's just an angreal (or was it a sa'angreal? I can't remember). It seems like an odd request - "Please give me an item of Power that I already have access to in the real world" - I am willing to bet that Moiraine could locate an angreal or three if she needed them from the WT.

 

No, I think there's more to this bracelet than a simple enhancing of Power... otherwise it seems like a god-awful request.

[Graveyardhag]

And if Moiraine knew that bargaining her way out wasn't an option, why ask to keep an angreal? Why not go for broke and ask for the strongest sa'angreal that the Finn had? Not to mention that the bracelet is kind of evilish in appearance.

It makes me wonder if it's just an angreal (or was it a sa'angreal? I can't remember). It seems like an odd request - "Please give me an item of Power that I already have access to in the real world" - I am willing to bet that Moiraine could locate an angreal or three if she needed them from the WT.

 

No, I think there's more to this bracelet than a simple enhancing of Power... otherwise it seems like a god-awful request.

 

 

It's an angreal that is almost powerful enough to be a sa'angreal. according to that one Finn.

As to the rest, no idea. It could have other properties, but have we ever seen a single channeling item that has more than one use? The only things I can think of are Nyneave's and Cadsuane's paralis-nets and they aren't single items. The only things we actually know about it is that it isn't pretty (it's a man bent back with his hands and feet tied together in a circle right?) It's very strong, Lanfear used it, and Moraine bargained to keep it with her. Doesn't really tell us much.

[analyticalkeys]

I was excited to have Moraine back, but I really can't stand her sudden emotional outburst with Thom. It's true that she's been tortured by these Finns for a long time, but the Moraine we knew would always keep her cool, and if there was a time where she'd show her emotions for Thom... it would be in private, not in front of Mat.

[Guest]

I was excited to have Moraine back, but I really can't stand her sudden emotional outburst with Thom. It's true that she's been tortured by these Finns for a long time, but the Moraine we knew would always keep her cool, and if there was a time where she'd show her emotions for Thom... it would be in private, not in front of Mat.

 

but then Mat wouldnt give them some private-time :P i reckon she didnt want to wait that much ^_^

[JDJ]

Well we all know Moiraine has been brought back for some reason and I think it has to do with supporting Rand and Nynaeve with Callandor.

 

I think that will be Lanfear (not a turn to the light, but either forced / trying to pick a winning side to gain advantage)... Moiraine will go save Lan, IMHO, as Nyn will be busy with Rand.

 

That will be bittersweet for Nyn to take, but she has no choice in the matter.

[nwash_10]

I found it quite intriguing that the Finns had the ability to actually drain her strength in the One Power. How in the Light would that be possible?

 

Also, I wonder if she was kept the whole time where they found her, Snow-White style. She was in some sort of induced sleep, it looked like -- still makes me wonder whether they fed her.

 

I also wonder if one of her requests was for her bond with Lan to be severed -- if they were capable of doing so. That way everyone would think she was dead and Lan would go follow his own path.

 

I agree with this. I think it had to be one of her requests. Otherwise, Lan(and probably others) would have tried to save her and they all would have died.

[nolirion]

I found it quite intriguing that the Finns had the ability to actually drain her strength in the One Power. How in the Light would that be possible?

 

Also, I wonder if she was kept the whole time where they found her, Snow-White style. She was in some sort of induced sleep, it looked like -- still makes me wonder whether they fed her.

 

I also wonder if one of her requests was for her bond with Lan to be severed -- if they were capable of doing so. That way everyone would think she was dead and Lan would go follow his own path.

 

I agree with this. I think it had to be one of her requests. Otherwise, Lan(and probably others) would have tried to save her and they all would have died.

I think the destruction of the doorway severe the bound

[JDJ]

I found it quite intriguing that the Finns had the ability to actually drain her strength in the One Power. How in the Light would that be possible?

 

Also, I wonder if she was kept the whole time where they found her, Snow-White style. She was in some sort of induced sleep, it looked like -- still makes me wonder whether they fed her.

 

I also wonder if one of her requests was for her bond with Lan to be severed -- if they were capable of doing so. That way everyone would think she was dead and Lan would go follow his own path.

 

I agree with this. I think it had to be one of her requests. Otherwise, Lan(and probably others) would have tried to save her and they all would have died.

I think the destruction of the doorway severe the bound

 

I do not see how the destruction of the doorway severs the bond.

 

Now of the destruction of the doorway killed Moiraine, and one of her wishes was to be resurrected from that, or simply the Snakes and Foxes ressed her to feed off her, then that is another story.

[nogoodatnames]

Maybe the bond only works in there own dimension, so if the snakes&foxes are in a parrelel reality, maybe it won't cross that. Or maybe there in the same reality and just very, very distant, an the bond has a distance limit.

[nolirion]

I found it quite intriguing that the Finns had the ability to actually drain her strength in the One Power. How in the Light would that be possible?

 

Also, I wonder if she was kept the whole time where they found her, Snow-White style. She was in some sort of induced sleep, it looked like -- still makes me wonder whether they fed her.

 

I also wonder if one of her requests was for her bond with Lan to be severed -- if they were capable of doing so. That way everyone would think she was dead and Lan would go follow his own path.

 

I agree with this. I think it had to be one of her requests. Otherwise, Lan(and probably others) would have tried to save her and they all would have died.

I think the destruction of the doorway severe the bound

 

I do not see how the destruction of the doorway severs the bond.

 

Now of the destruction of the doorway killed Moiraine, and one of her wishes was to be resurrected from that, or simply the Snakes and Foxes ressed her to feed off her, then that is another story.

The doorway was a portal betwin two world a tunnel into reality , I Think it destruction (much like the sharp edge of a gateway if you prefer) would do some damage .

But i am no sure .

[A2597]

I think her reduction in power will play a role in the power structure at the white tower.

 

We now have a former Amerlyn, former keeper, and current "legend" status Aes Sedai, all greatly reduced in power. That has to turn a few heads into thinking the power structure is a little whak.