Nakomi

[bysomy]

Semirhage Princess of Pie, Semirhage

[Cirin]

This is not really on the topic of this thread, but since people have mentioned the voice at the end of EotW a few times... I initially thought it was the Creator, but after reading it again a few times, I'm led to think it was the Dark One. Sure he doesn't normally talk outside the Bore, but he also normally doesn't have the Dragon Reborn holding all the power of the Eye of the World and screaming at him that it has to end now. Especially when he responds that the Chosen can act, if he wills, and then Rand goes and fights against Ishamael... seems odd that the Creator would talk to Rand in that way if he was, in fact, referring to Rand... as I look at it, I tend to think that Rand tried to challenge the Dark One, and the Dark One told him that now is not the time, and that only Ishamael could act, if he wants to.

 

As for Nakomi... I think overspeculation might be dangerous. It could be Verin... or it could be a piece of cheese playing tricks on the senses... there might be more of gravy than of grave about her! Although Aviendha's first thought is that it might be a specter, particularly with all the weird stuff going on as of late. Ultimately, it may simply be a deus ex machina. We know, after all, that the Pattern seems to be working for it's own self-preservation (ta'veren, for example), so anything is possible.

[pattikins]

Semirhage Princess of Pie, Semirhage

 

Oh, yeah. That's right. Apple-blueberry pie for everyone.

 

But wait, that seems to be an AoL thing since you only mentioned Forsaken. But never mind. . . it probably doesn't matter.

 

Still seems like a stretch that she's Verin. It's the motivation issue that trips me up, but I guess it's possible. My next guess after Shaiel is that it will be one of many unresolved mysteries that Brandon has talked about. Those of you who think she's Lanfear just miss her dangerous sensuality and want her back at any price, even credibility. Admit it, now.

[pattikins]

As for Nakomi... I think overspeculation might be dangerous.

Then you have come to the WRONG PLACE, dear one! (Just an attempt at self deprecation here.)

[Sharaman]

(Assumption 1)

Verin can probably mask her channeling ability and invert-reverse webs, etc. She was surprised when she ran into Graendal at the cleaning. G was not glowing and showed no signs of channeling when she countered Verin's attack. Once somebody as smart as Verin knows there's a way to do something, she could learn.

 

She has a special form of gentle Compulsion which could explain Avi's lack of suspicion and the time-dilation, etc.

 

(Assumption 2)

She may have enough Dream skill to handle TAR if that is what happened - she did study TAR in some detail.

 

She knows something about portal stones.

 

(Assumption 3)

At a stretch, she may be able to talk the Aiel talk with enough conviction.

 

All the above requires assumptions but each in itself is not that major, and you can find supporting evidence.

 

Motivation??

Every other action we see of Verin from that period - between Trustair and WT - is dictated by her need to disseminate hard info.

This is not. Does she have time to spare in this period for Aiel Philosophy 101?

 

How would she know who and where Avi was?

They've never even met onscreen - they may possibly have been in Caemlyn for a brief while together but Verin was specifically staying away from Rand after the Alanna bonding. At that stage, all she'd learn would be AVi is an apprentice WO and a strong channeler with an apparent connection to TDR. Only 3 WOs knew exactly when and where Avi was going.

 

Why would she go there disguised if she needed to meet Avi?

Why would she hang around and have a conversation about the philosophy of the Aiel and their distant future?

 

No remotely satisfactory answers to the above.

[Cirin]

As for Nakomi... I think overspeculation might be dangerous.

Then you have come to the WRONG PLACE, dear one! (Just an attempt at self deprecation here.)

 

This is true.

 

I still don't see her being Verin, though... maybe I'm wrong, but it was all a little too... mystical, for Verin. The knowledge, extended effort, etc. on Verin's part would have been rather profound, especially since she probably could have had the same discussion with Aviendha as herself...

 

But who knows. I thought Graendel was dead too, but as we saw in this book there was clearly WAY too much for her to do for her to have died in the huge climactic scene in TGS...

[pattikins]

Gala-apple pie with streusel and pumpkin pie (made with cream instead of canned milk) for Sharaman and Cirin for their good critical thinking and logic. Just coincidental that I agree.

 

I am actually baking those pies tomorrow morning, with maybe a maple-pecan on the side.

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Sharaman]

As for Nakomi... I think overspeculation might be dangerous.

Then you have come to the WRONG PLACE, dear one! (Just an attempt at self deprecation here.)

 

This is true.

 

I still don't see her being Verin, though... maybe I'm wrong, but it was all a little too... mystical, for Verin. The knowledge, extended effort, etc. on Verin's part would have been rather profound, especially since she probably could have had the same discussion with Aviendha as herself...

 

But who knows. I thought Graendel was dead too, but as we saw in this book there was clearly WAY too much for her to do for her to have died in the huge climactic scene in TGS...

Actually I was in the "Graendal is alive" camp for the very simple reason that it would be inconceivable that she would learn there was an open Gate outside her palace and not place it under observation. Obviously I didn't know about the TP etc, but that one detail is tip off enough.

[FanoLan]

 

 

(Assumption 3)

At a stretch, she may be able to talk the Aiel talk with enough conviction.

 

All the above requires assumptions but each in itself is not that major, and you can find supporting evidence.

 

Motivation??

Every other action we see of Verin from that period - between Trustair and WT - is dictated by her need to disseminate hard info.

This is not. Does she have time to spare in this period for Aiel Philosophy 101?

 

How would she know who and where Avi was?

They've never even met onscreen - they may possibly have been in Caemlyn for a brief while together but Verin was specifically staying away from Rand after the Alanna bonding. At that stage, all she'd learn would be AVi is an apprentice WO and a strong channeler with an apparent connection to TDR. Only 3 WOs knew exactly when and where Avi was going.

 

Why would she go there disguised if she needed to meet Avi?

Why would she hang around and have a conversation about the philosophy of the Aiel and their distant future?

 

No remotely satisfactory answers to the above.

 

 

Just wanted to offer a possible motivation for pre-Turkey mastication. I know I've put it out on the interwebs before, not sure if this thread or not (or even this site).

 

The entire Aiel discussion was strictly Verin's tool to put Avi at ease and therefore allow Verin to perform her Compulsion-lite on the target.

 

Avi's response to the conversation - her thoughts and then actions in Rhuidean - are unforeseen consequences and irrelevant from Verin's perspective.

 

Regarding your postulations:

 

To be clear, please specify what you mean by using the wording "Every other action we see of Verin..." On it's face, this phrase implies enough of a sample size of Verin's actions to prove significant in this discussion. However, we the readers are not yet privy to the details of anything Verin has done between Trustair and tea-sipping at the Tower. We know Galad and Alanna received the distinctive envelopes - not what they contained. Rand suggests that it was Verin who informed him, via letter, of Mattin Step and we can reasonably assume this is true. What else do we know about this time period that I am missing? Just seems like a flimsy (and misleading) supporting argument to me.

 

Further down in your post, we find "At that stage, all she'd learn would be AVi is an apprentice WO and a strong channeler with an apparent connection to TDR." "All she'd learn", really? IMO, dismissing these three factors out of hand, especially when taken together, is a mistake. Briefly skim through any of the encounters between Wise Ones who can channel and AS in the early books and one cannot miss the significance of the channeling ability to the AS. Heck, just review the scene where Mat and Avi show up in Salidar. Each and every initial AS response to WO channeling ability is pronounced, particularly regarding Avi and her potential to outshine nearly every living AS. So we have an apprentice WO of great potential strength, obviously close to the Dragon Reborn, and you conclude Verin would have minimal or no interest in this woman. That just doesn't hold water in my book.

 

Then we get this gem "Only 3 WOs knew exactly when and where Avi was going." While the Avi departure scene includes only the three WOs, it seems impossible that the rest of the WOs would have no idea where Avi was going and why. Every WO, likely every adult Aiel, knows that a WO apprentice heads to Rhuidean to complete their path to WO. There is no way only the three WO who sent Avi to the Waste "know" where Avi is headed and when.

 

Verin shows up in disguise so Avi will let down her guard.

 

The conversation focuses on the Aiel because Verin wanted to distract Avi while simultaneously putting Avi at ease with "Nokomi."

 

Maybe we will find out for sure in MoL, but to me it seems Nokomi=Verin is the most likely correct deduction.

[f3llyn]

Just wanted to offer a possible motivation for pre-Turkey mastication. I know I've put it out on the interwebs before, not sure if this thread or not (or even this site).

 

The entire Aiel discussion was strictly Verin's tool to put Avi at ease and therefore allow Verin to perform her Compulsion-lite on the target.

 

Avi's response to the conversation - her thoughts and then actions in Rhuidean - are unforeseen consequences and irrelevant from Verin's perspective.

 

Regarding your postulations:

 

To be clear, please specify what you mean by using the wording "Every other action we see of Verin..." On it's face, this phrase implies enough of a sample size of Verin's actions to prove significant in this discussion. However, we the readers are not yet privy to the details of anything Verin has done between Trustair and tea-sipping at the Tower. We know Galad and Alanna received the distinctive envelopes - not what they contained. Rand suggests that it was Verin who informed him, via letter, of Mattin Step and we can reasonably assume this is true. What else do we know about this time period that I am missing? Just seems like a flimsy (and misleading) supporting argument to me.

 

Further down in your post, we find "At that stage, all she'd learn would be AVi is an apprentice WO and a strong channeler with an apparent connection to TDR." "All she'd learn", really? IMO, dismissing these three factors out of hand, especially when taken together, is a mistake. Briefly skim through any of the encounters between Wise Ones who can channel and AS in the early books and one cannot miss the significance of the channeling ability to the AS. Heck, just review the scene where Mat and Avi show up in Salidar. Each and every initial AS response to WO channeling ability is pronounced, particularly regarding Avi and her potential to outshine nearly every living AS. So we have an apprentice WO of great potential strength, obviously close to the Dragon Reborn, and you conclude Verin would have minimal or no interest in this woman. That just doesn't hold water in my book.

 

Then we get this gem "Only 3 WOs knew exactly when and where Avi was going." While the Avi departure scene includes only the three WOs, it seems impossible that the rest of the WOs would have no idea where Avi was going and why. Every WO, likely every adult Aiel, knows that a WO apprentice heads to Rhuidean to complete their path to WO. There is no way only the three WO who sent Avi to the Waste "know" where Avi is headed and when.

 

Verin shows up in disguise so Avi will let down her guard.

 

The conversation focuses on the Aiel because Verin wanted to distract Avi while simultaneously putting Avi at ease with "Nokomi."

 

Maybe we will find out for sure in MoL, but to me it seems Nokomi=Verin is the most likely correct deduction.

About the 3 WO's being the only people that knew where Aviendha was going. You're technically right, everyone WO probably knows Aviendha was going to Rhuidean, if not when specifically. There was a lot more than 3 around when Aviendha was being "punished" in TGS. But only a few of them know how she was going to get there and by what path. They certainly wouldn't tell an Aes Sedai about that or anyone else for that matter. Wise ones business.. Unless you're saying Verin used her compulsion on Amys or one of the others as well to find out where Aviendha was traveling from? And Verin is somehow supposed to choose exactly the right spot to "stumble" upon Aviendha? I don't buy it.

[dwn]

Maybe we will find out for sure in MoL, but to me it seems Nokomi=Verin is the most likely correct deduction.

 

While the arguments make some sense, the big problem I have with Nakomi being Verin is that it requires quite a few assumptions, some plausible, some less so.

 

1) Verin must have a very strong reason for wanting time with Aviendha. We can come up with some hypothetical motivations, but Nakomi doesn't seem to pass on anything of vital importance during their conversation. During this time period Verin is handing out deathbed instructions.

2) Verin must know where Aviendha is. This is a bit less believable, but not impossible.

3) Verin must be able to find Aviendha. Again rather difficult, since Verin isn't personally familiar with the Waste, that we know of. Could she really locate a lone traveller there in a reasonable amount of time? This could be answered by Verin pulling Aviendha into T'A'R, yet we don't have evidence Verin has such capabilities in the dream.

4) Verin must pass as Aiel at a cursory glance. Possible, since she did spend a lot of time around them in Cairhien.

 

These points hold for Nakomi being anyone in disguise. She must have a very good reason for seeking out Aviendha, and have sufficient knowledge and skills to find Aviendha between Cold Rocks Hold and Rhuidean.

 

-- dwn

[FanoLan]

Just wanted to offer a possible motivation for pre-Turkey mastication. I know I've put it out on the interwebs before, not sure if this thread or not (or even this site).

 

The entire Aiel discussion was strictly Verin's tool to put Avi at ease and therefore allow Verin to perform her Compulsion-lite on the target.

 

Avi's response to the conversation - her thoughts and then actions in Rhuidean - are unforeseen consequences and irrelevant from Verin's perspective.

 

Regarding your postulations:

 

To be clear, please specify what you mean by using the wording "Every other action we see of Verin..." On it's face, this phrase implies enough of a sample size of Verin's actions to prove significant in this discussion. However, we the readers are not yet privy to the details of anything Verin has done between Trustair and tea-sipping at the Tower. We know Galad and Alanna received the distinctive envelopes - not what they contained. Rand suggests that it was Verin who informed him, via letter, of Mattin Step and we can reasonably assume this is true. What else do we know about this time period that I am missing? Just seems like a flimsy (and misleading) supporting argument to me.

 

Further down in your post, we find "At that stage, all she'd learn would be AVi is an apprentice WO and a strong channeler with an apparent connection to TDR." "All she'd learn", really? IMO, dismissing these three factors out of hand, especially when taken together, is a mistake. Briefly skim through any of the encounters between Wise Ones who can channel and AS in the early books and one cannot miss the significance of the channeling ability to the AS. Heck, just review the scene where Mat and Avi show up in Salidar. Each and every initial AS response to WO channeling ability is pronounced, particularly regarding Avi and her potential to outshine nearly every living AS. So we have an apprentice WO of great potential strength, obviously close to the Dragon Reborn, and you conclude Verin would have minimal or no interest in this woman. That just doesn't hold water in my book.

 

Then we get this gem "Only 3 WOs knew exactly when and where Avi was going." While the Avi departure scene includes only the three WOs, it seems impossible that the rest of the WOs would have no idea where Avi was going and why. Every WO, likely every adult Aiel, knows that a WO apprentice heads to Rhuidean to complete their path to WO. There is no way only the three WO who sent Avi to the Waste "know" where Avi is headed and when.

 

Verin shows up in disguise so Avi will let down her guard.

 

The conversation focuses on the Aiel because Verin wanted to distract Avi while simultaneously putting Avi at ease with "Nokomi."

 

Maybe we will find out for sure in MoL, but to me it seems Nokomi=Verin is the most likely correct deduction.

About the 3 WO's being the only people that knew where Aviendha was going. You're technically right, everyone WO probably knows Aviendha was going to Rhuidean, if not when specifically. There was a lot more than 3 around when Aviendha was being "punished" in TGS. But only a few of them know how she was going to get there and by what path. They certainly wouldn't tell an Aes Sedai about that or anyone else for that matter. Wise ones business.. Unless you're saying Verin used her compulsion on Amys or one of the others as well to find out where Aviendha was traveling from? And Verin is somehow supposed to choose exactly the right spot to "stumble" upon Aviendha? I don't buy it.

 

Avi's departure for Rhuidean doesn't seem like a big secret that Amys et al would withhold from the rest of the WOs. To the contrary, it seems like a notable event that would be important to all of the WOs. Indeed, since supplies have been set aside, we know the Aiel at Cold Rocks are expecting Avi to come there and then proceed to Rhuidean.

 

Though it pains me to mention it, it's almost certain that some DF Aiel still exist so Verin would have that avenue to garner information as well.

 

Though we know better than to trust every word Verin says, if she is Nokomi we have no reason to believe she showed up exactly where Avi was camped the first time she tried to find her. Nokomi implies that Avi was found only with some effort. If you are Verin, and can Travel, it would not be too difficult to approximate Avi's intended path and then search along it until you see some sign, i.e. campfire or something else.

[WhiskyJack]

I don't know if this has been mentioned.

I found it interesting how she reffered to things in the past tense. To be specific

"Our land here is called the three-fold land. Three-fold, for three things it did to us. It punished us for sin. It tested our courage. It formed an anvil to shape us

 

Not long after this is the comment about being far from her roof, but not far at all. Or it's far from her.

 

Further on we have

Serving the dragon was the point behind everything we did. Our customs, our raids on each other, our harsh training. . . our very way of life

 

Specifically, everything we did.

 

There might be more I missed as well.

 

Not conclusive of anything, but certaintly interesting.

 

Pointing to fact that it was time for Aiel to forge a new destiny.

[Val Mickey]

It's all in the tuber.

 

Baking a potato, while decidedly easy, contains so many nuances. They have to be of the right size, dug up at the right time, pre-seasoned with the same mix, heated at a particular degree for a particular time. Change anything, and the difference is obvious. To make it well, let alone delicious, requires - practise. And good ingredients. (With food spoiling at short notice in Randland...)

 

There is no way Verin learned how to cook an Aiel tuber, not when the Aiel were living off grain and other food brought by the Tairens when Verin was apprenticed. Even if she learned that, there is no frigging way she learned how to cut and season the shellback, yet another Aiel "delicacy."

 

That woman is Aiel.

 

P.S On a related note, if Verin asked any of the other Aiel where to find Aviendha, they would haul her by the ear for being a run-away apprentice.

[Sharaman]

 

 

(Assumption 3)

At a stretch, she may be able to talk the Aiel talk with enough conviction.

 

All the above requires assumptions but each in itself is not that major, and you can find supporting evidence.

 

Motivation??

Every other action we see of Verin from that period - between Trustair and WT - is dictated by her need to disseminate hard info.

This is not. Does she have time to spare in this period for Aiel Philosophy 101?

 

How would she know who and where Avi was?

They've never even met onscreen - they may possibly have been in Caemlyn for a brief while together but Verin was specifically staying away from Rand after the Alanna bonding. At that stage, all she'd learn would be AVi is an apprentice WO and a strong channeler with an apparent connection to TDR. Only 3 WOs knew exactly when and where Avi was going.

 

Why would she go there disguised if she needed to meet Avi?

Why would she hang around and have a conversation about the philosophy of the Aiel and their distant future?

 

No remotely satisfactory answers to the above.

 

 

 

 

Just wanted to offer a possible motivation for pre-Turkey mastication. I know I've put it out on the interwebs before, not sure if this thread or not (or even this site).

 

The entire Aiel discussion was strictly Verin's tool to put Avi at ease and therefore allow Verin to perform her Compulsion-lite on the target.

 

Avi's response to the conversation - her thoughts and then actions in Rhuidean - are unforeseen consequences and irrelevant from Verin's perspective.

 

Regarding your postulations:

 

To be clear, please specify what you mean by using the wording "Every other action we see of Verin..." On it's face, this phrase implies enough of a sample size of Verin's actions to prove significant in this discussion. However, we the readers are not yet privy to the details of anything Verin has done between Trustair and tea-sipping at the Tower. We know Galad and Alanna received the distinctive envelopes - not what they contained. Rand suggests that it was Verin who informed him, via letter, of Mattin Step and we can reasonably assume this is true. What else do we know about this time period that I am missing? Just seems like a flimsy (and misleading) supporting argument to me.

 

 

"Every other action we see of Verin..." - literally what we've seen.

We've seen her conversations with Egwene - she traded hard info.

We see what's in the letter to Mat - hard info

We infer what's in the letter to Rand - hard info

We know Alanna was stampeded into running for Arafel as a massive invasion happened - inference is, hard info.

She's living on borrowed time - if she can't free herself from the oaths, she's going to suicide

She's not going to spend time doing things without a strong motive.

 

 

 

Further down in your post, we find "At that stage, all she'd learn would be AVi is an apprentice WO and a strong channeler with an apparent connection to TDR." "All she'd learn", really? IMO, dismissing these three factors out of hand, especially when taken together, is a mistake. Briefly skim through any of the encounters between Wise Ones who can channel and AS in the early books and one cannot miss the significance of the channeling ability to the AS. Heck, just review the scene where Mat and Avi show up in Salidar. Each and every initial AS response to WO channeling ability is pronounced, particularly regarding Avi and her potential to outshine nearly every living AS. So we have an apprentice WO of great potential strength, obviously close to the Dragon Reborn, and you conclude Verin would have minimal or no interest in this woman. That just doesn't hold water in my book.

 

Read TDR, TSR, TFoH LoC and get your timelines straight.

There is a very short period when Verin and Avi are anywhere near each other.

At that stage, Verin has been told by Rand to stay away from him

At that stage, Avi is sticking to Rand like glue.

Ergo difficult for them to meet.

Verin has had zilch contact with WOs at that stage - there are no other WOs in Caemlyn for her to have contact with.

Before that, she's been in the TR - no WOs.

They have never even met onscreen!

 

 

 

Then we get this gem "Only 3 WOs knew exactly when and where Avi was going." While the Avi departure scene includes only the three WOs, it seems impossible that the rest of the WOs would have no idea where Avi was going and why. Every WO, likely every adult Aiel, knows that a WO apprentice heads to Rhuidean to complete their path to WO. There is no way only the three WO who sent Avi to the Waste "know" where Avi is headed and when.

 

You think the WOs told everyone - Ah Avi's off to Rhuidean? Is that normal WO behaviour?

Any quote to back your assumption?

You think Verin wandered around Arad Doman fishing for information while sitting in Trustair passing pictures of Mat around?

Any quote to back this?

Avi has been successively to Carhein, Caemlyn, Salidar, Ebou Dar, Caemlyn, Arad Doman - while being an apprentice.

Why would anyone necessarily infer that this time she's off to the Waste?

 

 

Verin shows up in disguise so Avi will let down her guard.

 

The conversation focuses on the Aiel because Verin wanted to distract Avi while simultaneously putting Avi at ease with "Nokomi."

 

Maybe we will find out for sure in MoL, but to me it seems Nokomi=Verin is the most likely correct deduction.

Possible but what's her motive ? Why is she wandering around chatting up people in the Waste when she's under a self-imposed death sentence?

[WhiskyJack]

This is what happens when you allow people to think. So many wild theories! Most with so many assumptions..even RJ/Sanderson probably never gave this much thought to Nakomi;)

[Vorkia]

I have to admit, after reading 18 pages about Nakomi, I’m impressed with how creative most of the theories are. Just to be sure it is understood, creative does not equal plausible—even in Randland. I think some of the theories are a bit more farfetched than others. Nakomi=Bela is my personal favorite though.

 

But I would be amiss if I didn’t add my two tubers to the kettle...

 

What some are failing to remember is that Dreamers can “see” the future and some can even interpret them into knowing what those dreams mean. So what if the WO dreamers had a foretelling (or whatever you want to call a prophetic dream) either about the Aiel future or that Avi was going to enter the columns a second time to reveal the Aiel future and as a result of their foretelling, went to Avi in a dream (not TAR) to prompt her into questioning what’s next so she lingers at the columns causing a domino effect. It is possible that as Dreamers they knew that if they approached her the way they did (as Nakomi) that it would be enough to start the chain reaction and they do have the knowledge and ability to manipulate dreams when necessary without being in TAR.

 

A second idea that hasn’t been mentioned, and the one I am more inclined to believe…

When Avi entered the three ring Ter'angreal she was shown many prospective futures, futures that, with a couple exceptions, faded into the recesses of her mind when it was all said and done with. Could it not be possible then, that one of those visions were of the Aiel post LB and her trek to Rhuidean triggered that memory subconsciously to where she was actually dreaming (or hallucinating depending on if she was dreaming awake or asleep) her meeting with Nakomi manifesting those concerns that were brought on by what she saw in the rings? Taking them from the subconscience to the conscience.

 

A third option is that Nakomi is real and was one of those Aiel who were taken by the bleakness who was voicing her own concerns to someone who may be in a position to thwart it.

 

*shrugs*

 

I think the second theory is more plausible and possible than any other so far. At least until someone points out why that won’t work and then I can smack myself in the head and say “how could I have been so dense to think that, it is soooo obvious why it would never work?”

[Crael123]

I am sorry but like who cares who she was? She could have been some traveler or a plot device used by Sanderson as an intro the the Ruidean visions.

[dwn]

I have to admit, after reading 18 pages about Nakomi, I’m impressed with how creative most of the theories are. Just to be sure it is understood, creative does not equal plausible—even in Randland. I think some of the theories are a bit more farfetched than others. Nakomi=Bela is my personal favorite though.

 

But I would be amiss if I didn’t add my two tubers to the kettle...

 

What some are failing to remember is that Dreamers can “see” the future and some can even interpret them into knowing what those dreams mean. So what if the WO dreamers had a foretelling (or whatever you want to call a prophetic dream) either about the Aiel future or that Avi was going to enter the columns a second time to reveal the Aiel future and as a result of their foretelling, went to Avi in a dream (not TAR) to prompt her into questioning what’s next so she lingers at the columns causing a domino effect. It is possible that as Dreamers they knew that if they approached her the way they did (as Nakomi) that it would be enough to start the chain reaction and they do have the knowledge and ability to manipulate dreams when necessary without being in TAR.

 

A second idea that hasn’t been mentioned, and the one I am more inclined to believe…

When Avi entered the three ring Ter'angreal she was shown many prospective futures, futures that, with a couple exceptions, faded into the recesses of her mind when it was all said and done with. Could it not be possible then, that one of those visions were of the Aiel post LB and her trek to Rhuidean triggered that memory subconsciously to where she was actually dreaming (or hallucinating depending on if she was dreaming awake or asleep) her meeting with Nakomi manifesting those concerns that were brought on by what she saw in the rings? Taking them from the subconscience to the conscience.

 

A third option is that Nakomi is real and was one of those Aiel who were taken by the bleakness who was voicing her own concerns to someone who may be in a position to thwart it.

 

*shrugs*

 

I think the second theory is more plausible and possible than any other so far. At least until someone points out why that won’t work and then I can smack myself in the head and say “how could I have been so dense to think that, it is soooo obvious why it would never work?”

 

Those are very good theories. Amys has been suggested before, and meets all the logistical requirements of intercepting Aviendha, but your first option gives a good reason why she would do such a thing. The Wise Ones have definitely been good at understanding their dreams before.

 

I like the second theory as well, but it's perhaps a bit too subtle for WoT.

 

-- dwn

[f3llyn]

I have to admit, after reading 18 pages about Nakomi, I’m impressed with how creative most of the theories are. Just to be sure it is understood, creative does not equal plausible—even in Randland. I think some of the theories are a bit more farfetched than others. Nakomi=Bela is my personal favorite though.

 

But I would be amiss if I didn’t add my two tubers to the kettle...

 

What some are failing to remember is that Dreamers can “see” the future and some can even interpret them into knowing what those dreams mean. So what if the WO dreamers had a foretelling (or whatever you want to call a prophetic dream) either about the Aiel future or that Avi was going to enter the columns a second time to reveal the Aiel future and as a result of their foretelling, went to Avi in a dream (not TAR) to prompt her into questioning what’s next so she lingers at the columns causing a domino effect. It is possible that as Dreamers they knew that if they approached her the way they did (as Nakomi) that it would be enough to start the chain reaction and they do have the knowledge and ability to manipulate dreams when necessary without being in TAR.

 

A second idea that hasn’t been mentioned, and the one I am more inclined to believe…

When Avi entered the three ring Ter'angreal she was shown many prospective futures, futures that, with a couple exceptions, faded into the recesses of her mind when it was all said and done with. Could it not be possible then, that one of those visions were of the Aiel post LB and her trek to Rhuidean triggered that memory subconsciously to where she was actually dreaming (or hallucinating depending on if she was dreaming awake or asleep) her meeting with Nakomi manifesting those concerns that were brought on by what she saw in the rings? Taking them from the subconscience to the conscience.

 

A third option is that Nakomi is real and was one of those Aiel who were taken by the bleakness who was voicing her own concerns to someone who may be in a position to thwart it.

 

*shrugs*

 

I think the second theory is more plausible and possible than any other so far. At least until someone points out why that won’t work and then I can smack myself in the head and say “how could I have been so dense to think that, it is soooo obvious why it would never work?”

 

Those are very good theories. Amys has been suggested before, and meets all the logistical requirements of intercepting Aviendha, but your first option gives a good reason why she would do such a thing. The Wise Ones have definitely been good at understanding their dreams before.

 

I like the second theory as well, but it's perhaps a bit too subtle for WoT.

 

-- dwn

She would have the familiarity that would fit the "there was something about her" part that Aviendha couldn't place. She would also know how to pull Aviendha into T'A'R and manipulate it enough to where she wouldn't notice it.

 

But I'm still leaning towards Nakomi being a Jenn Aiel. I think it would be cool if they showed up to help teach the Aiel a new way of life.

[Nooska]

I think the first requirement that must be met for answering the "who" is location.

 

'Nakomi' Must know the following things;

 

1) That Avi is going to Rhuidean

2) The route (going from Cold Rocks)

 

 

Only the WO's directly invovled with Avi, and the (presumeably few) other Aiel asked to make preparations know.

Those "others" however will play a role in determining who can know her route - it has been expected for a while, so "nakomi" can have prepared for a while, and just gotten a "go".

 

The requirements, of course, only matter if the meeting is in the real world or through a portal stone (that is, not T'A'R or a dream).

 

Looking at the mentioned suspects;

 

Verin seems a bit too wishy - does Verin have the time to go to the waste at the drop of a hat - i.e. when Avi gets the message and declares herself an equal? My money is on no, she has been shown as beeing too busy with other stuff.

 

Mierin I don't see her fulfilling the location requirement, leaving nonphysical meeting. This leaves us with a motivation to seek out Avi there to hold a philosphy conversation focused on the future of the Aiel - My money is again on no - very un-lanfearish.

 

Rand has been mentioned - so far timelines put Nakomi pre VoG, and Dark Rand would be very improbable - Light Rand, post VoG, could have the discussion no problem, but wouldn't see a need to hide himself - anyway, this is pre voG by the timelines so far.

 

Shaiel/Tigraine - from all info she is dead, I see her as very unlikely.

 

Bela, okay, no particular objections to Bela.

 

Random Jenn Aiel possible but improbable - no buildup previously to the Jenn still existing

 

Amys (or another WO DW) - this is the most probable explanation in my opinion. The WO DW have repeatedly entered the dreams of others, its the way they communicate to the other WOs, add to this that the way they have treated Avi lately has been to lure her into being a WO and not an pprentice. The whole address is to a WO, until Avi says she is not yet. An instruction to contemplate the future of the Aiel wouldn't have worked either, because the Avi would have contemplated WHY the WOs wanted her to think about t (thats what she has shown by her dogged acceptance of punishments). Add in that the WO's say that they have been desperate (my words) to get her to make the trip before TG, something must have caused the urgency - they are too pragmatic to think in any way that her status as a WO would change anything about what she does or how she serves during TG. Looking at the scene and the oddities suggests a dream (not TAR) which also explains the easy acceptance of Nakomi, in a dream odd things don't seem so odd. Only one oddity isn't explained by this;

 

Someone from the future (possibly Avi) would explain the past tense, but seems very out of the blue apart from that.

 

I agree with Terez that the encounter with Nakomi is not about the result Avi gets from the columns, but is is directly contributing to it (however unforeseen the specific actions would have been).

 

Also, the past tense could be explained simply by pragmatism - the aiel HAVE left the 3 fold land, they HAVE served their toh (or rather the preparation is done and in the past) and they HAVE to figure out what to do next. Thw WOs are actually among the most pragmatic group we have seen in the series, not caring too much about tradition if tradition needs to be changed - while being very sure that their guidance is subtle so change is accepted by the chiefs (and others).

 

The "there was something about her" observation could be from any number of things - it could be a subconcious recognition of Amys (or other suspect), but it also just could be one of those recollections from her first trip to Rhuidean - some of those visions of the possible futures include an understanding or recognition when the time arises.

[Crael123]

I have a feeling that people are so distraught that we know who asmodean is that we have to come up with another pointless and probably glaringly obvious mystery to fill our time with.

 

Whoever she is, she probably will not be coming back. She acted very Verin, and the timeline would fit, so thats what i am calling.

[Crael123]

My above post sounded sort of mean.. I am sorry. I was not trying to antagonize anybody I could very well be totally wrong and she is incredibly important

[Sabio]

Reason I don't think she was real is Avi goes looking for her, comes back and Nakomi's stuff is missing. Seems werid to me she would go do a nature call, wait out in the darkess till Avi goes to look for her just to sneak back and grab her stuff. Seems strange to me.

[Danvighar]

Had a crazy thought when re-reading earlier today:

 

What if the whole thing - from Nakomi until after the crystal spires part 2 - was a dream? What if she still hasn't actually been to Rhuidean for her second trip yet?