Nakomi

[Caedn of the Taardad]

Verin's ability is not all that revealed either. She's never ever popped up when the Aiel Dreamwalkers were around (and they have memories/ anecdotes about TAR going back centuries given that they remember Nedeal. Nor has she appeared anywhere in the dreamland PoVs of the Wondergirls.

You're presuming she can do the DW at very high levels of skill - I find it difficult to imagine that she could have got to that stage without some early fumbles where the Aiel DW would have picked her up. It certainly isn't a given.

 

Not meaning to dig up old bones here, but I didn't have time to come on yesterday, so...

 

The WOs wouldn't necessarily have picked up on Verin bumbling around T'a'R. They only catch Egwene at it because she pops up right in the middle of Amys's hunt. The WO didn't know about Egwene's bumbling before then, had no knowledge of the Forsaken wandering around at first, and never once picked up on the Black Sisters (discounting the fight in the WT).

 

Verin had no reason to be that interested in the Aiel during any trips into T'a'R with the ring, so there would have been no popping in to startle an Aiel WO. She could have entered every night for 20 years for all the WOs could know, though she likely stopped whatever exploring she was doing when she earned her scar.

 

The person you should be asking about that is Birgitte, she at least is able to find people consciously in T'a'R if she wants to.

[WMTom]

Many good theories in place here.

 

My primary problem with Nakomi being Verin is the interaction between her and Avi. It is the cultural familiarity. In this I am not talking about the Ji-e-Toh or the conversation as much as I am the food aspects. Verin did not travel the waste with Rand and crew. Yes I know Verin was a book worm (an over zealous brown). Verin't time as an apprentice was not enough (in my mind) for her to pick up on the cultural nuances of one having lived that life. It seemed to me Nakomi had an intimate knowledge of Aiel culture

 

Internal conflict on this: "Perhaps it is far from me". She emphasized this. Is she talking about home being the White Tower, her soul (knowing Verin sold hers for study of the BA), another world or whatever?

 

Nakomi was described as having a brown skirt and a brown blouse. IRC most Aiel wear a white blouse (perhaps that is the way I picture them in my mind). She was also described as being middle aged with gray hair (This would fit Verin but many others as well).

 

Jenn Aiel, this one has merits but still kind of hard to swallow. The last of the Jenn Aiel were seen in the vision as the last Aes Sedai were close to dying (IRC). That was a long time ago. How to keep one alive other than one of the portal worlds? I think there is a possibility of the large rock Avi made her camp next to being a very weathered head of a statue perhaps. It does not have to be the protal stone itself, only near it. Case in point, Perrin's battle with the Trollocs to save the White Cloaks. The portal stone was burried but the Trollocs were still able to appear.

 

I am still on the fence on this one. I will have to re-reread this some more.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

I think she is a Jenn Aiel that is in TAR and obviously with the Pattern and TAR being extremely messed up atm it's possible she's spending some local time down in randland? would explain the knowledge about the aiel yet how it seems just a touch off.

 

Edit: i do like the above idea about the portal stones too that would make some sense.

[Random Man]

Many good theories in place here.

 

My primary problem with Nakomi being Verin is the interaction between her and Avi. It is the cultural familiarity. In this I am not talking about the Ji-e-Toh or the conversation as much as I am the food aspects. Verin did not travel the waste with Rand and crew. Yes I know Verin was a book worm (an over zealous brown). Verin't time as an apprentice was not enough (in my mind) for her to pick up on the cultural nuances of one having lived that life. It seemed to me Nakomi had an intimate knowledge of Aiel culture

 

Internal conflict on this: "Perhaps it is far from me". She emphasized this. Is she talking about home being the White Tower, her soul (knowing Verin sold hers for study of the BA), another world or whatever?

 

Nakomi was described as having a brown skirt and a brown blouse. IRC most Aiel wear a white blouse (perhaps that is the way I picture them in my mind). She was also described as being middle aged with gray hair (This would fit Verin but many others as well).

 

Jenn Aiel, this one has merits but still kind of hard to swallow. The last of the Jenn Aiel were seen in the vision as the last Aes Sedai were close to dying (IRC). That was a long time ago. How to keep one alive other than one of the portal worlds? I think there is a possibility of the large rock Avi made her camp next to being a very weathered head of a statue perhaps. It does not have to be the protal stone itself, only near it. Case in point, Perrin's battle with the Trollocs to save the White Cloaks. The portal stone was burried but the Trollocs were still able to appear.

 

I am still on the fence on this one. I will have to re-reread this some more.

 

If it's Verin, I'd say the quote you referenced "Perhaps it is far from me" referring to the fact that she's not Aiel, so she's being honest in saying she doesn't have much ground to speculate on the Aiel.

 

I can't say I agree with your opinion that Verin couldn't have picked up enough of the cultural nuances of the Aiel to have been Nakomi. She's a quick study and has spent quite a bit of time with them. Additionally, much of what Avi and Nakomi were discussing was quite superficial in terms of what the Aiel believe. And Nakomi was pointing Avi straight to the idea that the Aiel were preparing to serve the Dragon, and only speculating on what the future after TG should mean to the Aiel.

 

IMO Nakomi screamed "VERIN" all over her. She certainly had means and opportunity, and perhaps the motive -- speaking to one connected to the Dragon to make sure the Aiel remain focused on being his people. Her nunaces should have been a dead giveaway -- upon ascertaining that Avi isn't a Wise One she refers to her as "child" as she did with Egwene, she talks about being prone to rambling, there's the tea, she retains her trademarked gray hair (any mask of mirrors works better when it's closer to the original appearance). When she termed Rand as the one "named the Car'a'carn" I immediately thought of her saying it this way because Verin would think of Rand as the Dragon. Additionally, wasn't it interesting that Nakomi asked to share "water" and later Avi thought of it as her offering Nakomi to share "shade?" I would have thought an Aiel would request to share "shade" with the understanding that water and food were implied -- as Avi seemed to take sharing shade to mean.

 

 

Her being a living remnant of the Jenn or a ghost are (in this order) far-fetched and implausible. No ghosts have actually communicated or been aware of the living, and there's no evidence that any of the Jenn have survived. Would not one of the thousands of clan chiefs and Wise One apprentices have encountered one over the thousands of years? Additionally, would not a Jenn have recognized immediately that Aviendha was making the trip to Rhuidean (and was therefore not a full Wise One?)

[f3llyn]

I think she is a Jenn Aiel that is in TAR and obviously with the Pattern and TAR being extremely messed up atm it's possible she's spending some local time down in randland? would explain the knowledge about the aiel yet how it seems just a touch off.

 

Edit: i do like the above idea about the portal stones too that would make some sense.

It wasn't a portal stone though. Aviendha would recognize one of those as she found the one in TSR before they returned to the waste. She would probably have seen the portal stone in Rhuidean through out her life, though I don't recall her ever saying that she's been to the slopes of Rhuidean before Rand took them there through the portal stone.

 

The rock that she camps under is described as a "tremendous stone". A portal stone would be a tall column with characters/designs carved into it. It would be very odd for Aviendha to forget what one looked like. Besides that, with her proximity to Rhuidean, I feels even more out of place for two portal stones to be so close together.

 

I could be wrong but I don't think so as far as that is concerned.

[WolfDragonFox]

Many good theories in place here.

 

My primary problem with Nakomi being Verin is the interaction between her and Avi. It is the cultural familiarity. In this I am not talking about the Ji-e-Toh or the conversation as much as I am the food aspects. Verin did not travel the waste with Rand and crew. Yes I know Verin was a book worm (an over zealous brown). Verin't time as an apprentice was not enough (in my mind) for her to pick up on the cultural nuances of one having lived that life. It seemed to me Nakomi had an intimate knowledge of Aiel culture

 

Internal conflict on this: "Perhaps it is far from me". She emphasized this. Is she talking about home being the White Tower, her soul (knowing Verin sold hers for study of the BA), another world or whatever?

 

Nakomi was described as having a brown skirt and a brown blouse. IRC most Aiel wear a white blouse (perhaps that is the way I picture them in my mind). She was also described as being middle aged with gray hair (This would fit Verin but many others as well).

 

Jenn Aiel, this one has merits but still kind of hard to swallow. The last of the Jenn Aiel were seen in the vision as the last Aes Sedai were close to dying (IRC). That was a long time ago. How to keep one alive other than one of the portal worlds? I think there is a possibility of the large rock Avi made her camp next to being a very weathered head of a statue perhaps. It does not have to be the protal stone itself, only near it. Case in point, Perrin's battle with the Trollocs to save the White Cloaks. The portal stone was burried but the Trollocs were still able to appear.

 

I am still on the fence on this one. I will have to re-reread this some more.

 

If it's Verin, I'd say the quote you referenced "Perhaps it is far from me" referring to the fact that she's not Aiel, so she's being honest in saying she doesn't have much ground to speculate on the Aiel.

 

I can't say I agree with your opinion that Verin couldn't have picked up enough of the cultural nuances of the Aiel to have been Nakomi. She's a quick study and has spent quite a bit of time with them. Additionally, much of what Avi and Nakomi were discussing was quite superficial in terms of what the Aiel believe. And Nakomi was pointing Avi straight to the idea that the Aiel were preparing to serve the Dragon, and only speculating on what the future after TG should mean to the Aiel.

 

IMO Nakomi screamed "VERIN" all over her. She certainly had means and opportunity, and perhaps the motive -- speaking to one connected to the Dragon to make sure the Aiel remain focused on being his people. Her nunaces should have been a dead giveaway -- upon ascertaining that Avi isn't a Wise One she refers to her as "child" as she did with Egwene, she talks about being prone to rambling, there's the tea, she retains her trademarked gray hair (any mask of mirrors works better when it's closer to the original appearance). When she termed Rand as the one "named the Car'a'carn" I immediately thought of her saying it this way because Verin would think of Rand as the Dragon. Additionally, wasn't it interesting that Nakomi asked to share "water" and later Avi thought of it as her offering Nakomi to share "shade?" I would have thought an Aiel would request to share "shade" with the understanding that water and food were implied -- as Avi seemed to take sharing shade to mean.

 

 

Her being a living remnant of the Jenn or a ghost are (in this order) far-fetched and implausible. No ghosts have actually communicated or been aware of the living, and there's no evidence that any of the Jenn have survived. Would not one of the thousands of clan chiefs and Wise One apprentices have encountered one over the thousands of years? Additionally, would not a Jenn have recognized immediately that Aviendha was making the trip to Rhuidean (and was therefore not a full Wise One?)

 

EXACTLY WHAT MY POINT WAS!! I applaud you bringing in more nuance examples...i made one of those posts which just said a few reasons why I think its Verin in disguise but I actually was thinking about these small clues that you've mentioned here the entire time. Hint for the future for me: Don't watch Son's of Anarchy/ Edit photos and try to post on DM Forum all at the same time. I am with you on this 100 percent and hope we are correct cuz i'd love to see Verin again whether it be her pre death or if she somehow did live and went to Avi after her telling to Egwene!

[Sharaman]

Verin's ability is not all that revealed either. She's never ever popped up when the Aiel Dreamwalkers were around (and they have memories/ anecdotes about TAR going back centuries given that they remember Nedeal. Nor has she appeared anywhere in the dreamland PoVs of the Wondergirls.

You're presuming she can do the DW at very high levels of skill - I find it difficult to imagine that she could have got to that stage without some early fumbles where the Aiel DW would have picked her up. It certainly isn't a given.

 

Not meaning to dig up old bones here, but I didn't have time to come on yesterday, so...

 

The WOs wouldn't necessarily have picked up on Verin bumbling around T'a'R. They only catch Egwene at it because she pops up right in the middle of Amys's hunt. The WO didn't know about Egwene's bumbling before then, had no knowledge of the Forsaken wandering around at first, and never once picked up on the Black Sisters (discounting the fight in the WT).

 

Verin had no reason to be that interested in the Aiel during any trips into T'a'R with the ring, so there would have been no popping in to startle an Aiel WO. She could have entered every night for 20 years for all the WOs could know, though she likely stopped whatever exploring she was doing when she earned her scar.

 

The person you should be asking about that is Birgitte, she at least is able to find people consciously in T'a'R if she wants to.

 

We do know that Coreanin wasn't a very good or talented dreamer - she did interact with Aiel. No AS since has until Eqgene comes along.

It's unlikely that Verin would have managed to just read her notes and self-teach herself to the extremely high level of skills required without at least interacting with other TAR-users and Dreamers.

She can't talk to wolves. The Athan Miere and Seanchan don't do TAR. We don't know about the Sharans but we've never seen a Sharan Dreamer (except one "possible" who got in by accident).

The only ones around who could help Verin learn until the Forsaken escape are the Aiel.

She didn't interact with them.

 

To my mind this makes it exceedingly unlikely that she has the levels of practice and skills required to do what we're suggesting may have happened with Avi.

If it is Verin at all, mild Compulsion using reversed Weaves and masking her own channeling ability seems more likely.

 

But I find Verin a stretch. No apparent motive, not much if any acquaintance, unreal levels of info (how does she know Avi has finally received permission to go to Rhuidean?), unknown skill levels for any of the methods suggested, no exchange of concrete info ---

[WhiskyJack]

From the looks of it, Nakomi was only real for Avi;). She just made her up.

[consma3304]

Aviendha left for the Waste about 20 days before Verin died.

 

Deadsy apparently had the same impression as me when reading it - to both of us it seemed to be obviously Verin. The why of it is kind of murky, but the mannerisms were all Verin (Brandon's Verin, mind...though I think Brandon got her very close in TGS).

 

Pretty sure I read one of the Tower Guards saying that Sanderson told them Jordan wrote Verin in TGS.

[WhiskyJack]

Why would Verin give a crap about Aiel? And it's not like Verin did something to the glass column to help Avi see what future holds for her descendants. All the little clues like appearance of coal, really good food, all of Nakomi's item disappearing when Avi went to look for her gave me the feeling that Nakomi never was there. It was all in Avi's mind.

[anthonypero]

This whole "Avihenda was just dreaming her up thing" strikes me as a bit ridiculous, since there would then be no point to the scene. The Wheel of Time does not shy away from people having an internal dialog for pages at a time, just thinking things through. Why would Brandon, or RJ, create a random fake character? That whole scene could have been done just by Avi thinking about the stuff. It doesn't make any sense from a plotting standpoint, and isn't remotely similar to anything we've seen before from RJ or Sanderson. There has to be a deeper reason for this whole scene than just making Avihendha think about the future of the Aiel.

[WhiskyJack]

This whole "Avihenda was just dreaming her up thing" strikes me as a bit ridiculous, since there would then be no point to the scene. The Wheel of Time does not shy away from people having an internal dialog for pages at a time, just thinking things through. Why would Brandon, or RJ, create a random fake character? That whole scene could have been done just by Avi thinking about the stuff. It doesn't make any sense from a plotting standpoint, and isn't remotely similar to anything we've seen before from RJ or Sanderson. There has to be a deeper reason for this whole scene than just making Avihendha think about the future of the Aiel.

 

 

We have only one book left. I hope people are not looking for deeper meaning into every plot. Aiel are just one of many people in Randland.

 

By the way, Nakomi scene inspired Avi to test those ter'angreal. So something did come out of it.

[f3llyn]

This whole "Avihenda was just dreaming her up thing" strikes me as a bit ridiculous, since there would then be no point to the scene. The Wheel of Time does not shy away from people having an internal dialog for pages at a time, just thinking things through. Why would Brandon, or RJ, create a random fake character? That whole scene could have been done just by Avi thinking about the stuff. It doesn't make any sense from a plotting standpoint, and isn't remotely similar to anything we've seen before from RJ or Sanderson. There has to be a deeper reason for this whole scene than just making Avihendha think about the future of the Aiel.

Because perhaps, in the back of Aviendha's mind she is uncertain what her thoughts mean, she's worried about the future of the Aiel. So in her exhaustion she falls asleep without realizing it and dreams of this person who voices her thoughts back to her without her realizing they are actually her thoughts.

 

I'm not saying I believe that's what happened, but why not? It's just as plausible as any other explanation at this point.

[Jillain Sanche]

IF it is Verin, and I am leaning strongly to that conclusion, I believe she must have Traveled to the waste before she drank the poison (about the time she was writing up all those little letters). Her motive for the discussion with Avienda may or may not be the topic of the Ramble.

 

But the description of her making the meal and of her subsequent disappearance along with her gear struck a bell of there being some type of light compulsion weave on Avi.

[Sharaman]

Timing-wise it could be Verin. That is not a problem. She dropped Mat in Caemlyn around VoG-20 and Avi left the Waste around the same time.

[f3llyn]

IF it is Verin, and I am leaning strongly to that conclusion, I believe she must have Traveled to the waste before she drank the poison (about the time she was writing up all those little letters). Her motive for the discussion with Avienda may or may not be the topic of the Ramble.

 

But the description of her making the meal and of her subsequent disappearance along with her gear struck a bell of there being some type of light compulsion weave on Avi.

 

 

Timing-wise it could be Verin. That is not a problem. She dropped Mat in Caemlyn around VoG-20 and Avi left the Waste around the same time.

 

Like I've said before. Verin doesn't have any reason to seek Aviendha out like this. Nothing we've ever seen of her shows she even knows Aviendha exists to begin with.

 

Second it's just to convenient to pin all the mysterious events in the series on Verin since her big reveal. I would prefer the mystery of Nakomi being left unfinished completely to it being Verin.

[didymos]

I would prefer the mystery of Nakomi being left unfinished completely to it being Verin.

 

Wish possibly granted:

 

Apy12: @brandonsandrson Who on earth is Nakioma (should check name...)

 

BrandonSandrson: @Apy12 RAFO. :) I'm leaving that one open to interpretation.

 

Not sure if he just means "for now".

[Goramier]

It's another "who killed Asmo" thing I bet. He is leaving it open for us to RAFO except that there are a hundred different possible answers and in the end one can only guess.

[GusE]

With the wierd things happening it has to be the Creator stepping in or happening in TAR. If TAR then either the wise ones (which would be wierd since they've got time to prep her for this train of thought before actually leaving for Rhuidean), a forsaken or someone with a dream Ter'angreal. The BA stole most dream Ter'angreals. I don't get the feeling Nakomi is a darkfriend and thus I am left with only 2 possibilities. The Creator or Verin.

[f3llyn]

Why not a Jenn Aiel? Just because they disappear from the series doesn't mean they died off. We've never seen Shara, but it's still there, too. So just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean anything. And they would know better than anyone else what the future holds for the Aiel.

 

I think the key to finding out who Nakomi is lies in the answer to the question Aviendha asks her about where she's from:

 

"I am far from my roof," the woman said, wistful, "yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."

 

To me this suggests something to do with time. How are your close to your home yet far away from it at the same time? She could be from a different time. And where were they close to? About a 3 day walk from Rhuidean, the home of the Jenn Aiel. Perhaps the Jenn Aiel locked themselves in some sort of stasis like the Forsaken were trapped in when they erected the barriers around Rhuidean? We know they had Aes Sedai with them and most likely some dream walkers among them as well so that sort of thing is not beyond reason.

[Duskfire]

It does seem like Verin. However to me its a huge coincedence that Nakomi would approach Aviendha about all these questions to ponder, and then just after Aviendha has that vision of the future which addresses those very questions. Huge huge coincedence, and there is no such thing as coincedences in the Wheel of Time :P Thats why I think it was something else. But who knows.

[MikeRiley]

I think maybe this one would be better left completely open and unanswered. Everybody will have their own idea that makes sense to them and that feels right. Reading this thread it seems a lot of people believe this was Verin.. I don't believe it myself but if it makes sense to them.. We don't have enough information to say one way or the other. What turns me off to this idea is the extra burning coals, knowing where Aviendha is and having the roots (as well as the right kinds to comfort Aviendha).

 

What I can say is that when I read this my first thought was that it was the Creator giving advice. I mostly shrugged that off because I remembered the quote at the end of The Eye of the World (that's not the Dark One, by the way - he can't speak outside Shayol Ghul at that point, and Rand made the stairs). The talk was nothing world changing, in itself. Aviendha did come to her own conclusions in the end so it still could have been the Creator. Besides, the Creator's not going to interfere in the Last Battle or Tarmon Gaidon but what Aviendha is worried about does not involve it. People pray to the Creator all the time so he/she did not abandon the world.

 

My second thought was that Nakomi does not exist. Aviendha was tired and had a lot on her mind that troubled her, she was working things out and Nakomi came along and provided arguments that she herself was hesitant to consider. In a sense, Nakomi was Aviendha's temporary (but fake) Lews Therin. This is the answer that feels most right to me and if it comes about that Brandon Sanderson does not go into more detail on Nakomi's identity then it's what I'll believe.

[WhiskyJack]

Why not a Jenn Aiel? Just because they disappear from the series doesn't mean they died off. We've never seen Shara, but it's still there, too. So just because we haven't seen them doesn't mean anything. And they would know better than anyone else what the future holds for the Aiel.

 

 

While there is always a possibility, Jenn Aiel is just a way of saying Aiel who followed Way of leaf. They didn't "die" out per se. They simply merged into different Aiel Clans (well most of them). Those who didn't must have died in Rhuidean. Not sure why they would go to Shara. Every Aiel says that Jenn are no more. I am guessing they really are no more (Aiel following Way of Leaf).

 

And imagine one of them survived (even in Shara). Why would she approach Avi? How would she even know when or where to find her? Too much happy coincidence;) Besides this woman didn't actually push Avi into any direction..She just made confirmed doubts Avi already had about future of Aiel. I would think a Jenn would be less mysterious about more about "follow the leaf and stuff"..

 

I think the key to finding out who Nakomi is lies in the answer to the question Aviendha asks her about where she's from:

 

"I am far from my roof," the woman said, wistful, "yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."

 

 

 

To me this suggests something to do with time. How are your close to your home yet far away from it at the same time? She could be from a different time. And where were they close to? About a 3 day walk from Rhuidean, the home of the Jenn Aiel. Perhaps the Jenn Aiel locked themselves in some sort of stasis like the Forsaken were trapped in when they erected the barriers around Rhuidean? We know they had Aes Sedai with them and most likely some dream walkers among them as well so that sort of thing is not beyond reason.

 

Sounds symbolic. I doubt that statement is suppose to be taken literally..

 

 

Rhuidean itself was home of Jenn Aiel..Now many Aiel families are living in Rhuidean for a while..so they would have discovered this sleeping woman..And why would she come mysteriously and just disappear like that?Where did Nakomi go?

 

I am just rambling..I have no clue who Nakomi was;)

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

Well we know the ter'angreal was kinda alive from the description avi made...

 

What if... It projected out Nakomi? Nakomi being a Jenn Aiel we know they set the ter'angreal so that generations would know what went down so long ago. would it be a stretch for it do this?

[Random Man]

Like I've said before. Verin doesn't have any reason to seek Aviendha out like this. Nothing we've ever seen of her shows she even knows Aviendha exists to begin with.

Yes she does have a reason to seek out Aviendha -- she's doing her part to help keep the Aiel focused on helping Rand. She's been around the Aiel and has likely picked up on some of the same rifts beginning to form among the Aiel that Aviendha thought about in T'A'R. As for the second, she'd have to be rather unobservant to have not known who Aviendha was. Verin trained under the same Wise Ones who schemed to get Aviendha close to Rand in the first place, the same Wise Ones who Aviendha reports to. She has also been in the company of others who know of Aviendha's connection to Rand. I don't think it's a huge secret that Aviendha has connections with Rand. She was his tutor, in public, for months. She's also present with the Wise Ones when Rand briefs the clan chiefs.

 

Second it's just to convenient to pin all the mysterious events in the series on Verin since her big reveal. I would prefer the mystery of Nakomi being left unfinished completely to it being Verin.

 

So far, Verin's had a hand in with Mat, sent Alanna packing off to Light knows where, and wrote a letter to Galad of all people. She's been up to quite a bit of some very odd things in far-flung places. And now another unusual incident comes up where she fits the character and also had means and opportunity. She's a viable suspect. If Nakomi's mystery is never resolved, we'll all have our own thoughts and it'll be fun to argue.