Mat's Arc

[Barid Bel Medar]

How he escaped was masterful. I have not seen that theory on any board, ever.

 

Nor have I. A number of us did wonder how the ashandarei fitted into Mat's three 'purchases' - I called it a Post-it ™ note - but we didn't see that one coming.

 

Yeah, definitely not expected. Although after reading it it was sooooooo obvious. (this was the BUT)

 

On another note, Sorry FSM, I have to do this.

 

What was that about Moiraine and Lanfear being merged again?

 

Again, sorry, but i couldnt help it.

[Sharaman]

How he escaped was masterful. I have not seen that theory on any board, ever.

 

Nor have I. A number of us did wonder how the ashandarei fitted into Mat's three 'purchases' - I called it a Post-it note - but we didn't see that one coming.

 

Yeah, definitely not expected. Although after reading it it was sooooooo obvious. (this was the BUT)

 

On another note, Sorry FSM, I have to do this.

 

What was that about Moiraine and Lanfear being merged again?

 

Again, sorry, but i couldnt help it.

 

Is the naginata the BUT? The Aiel DF and male channelers theme also starts in book 4.

IMHO, it's a bigger BUT.

[AuldGoldBeard]

Good point, Rootbeer, about feeling a TV's pain.

 

 

I'm starting to think Moiraine may be the third in Callandor. Rand commented to Nynaeve that he still didn't know who the third would be, and Moiraine's requests could have been some sort of knowledge and/or weaving ability related to Callandor.

[FarShainMael]

How he escaped was masterful. I have not seen that theory on any board, ever.

 

Nor have I. A number of us did wonder how the ashandarei fitted into Mat's three 'purchases' - I called it a Post-it note - but we didn't see that one coming.

 

Yeah, definitely not expected. Although after reading it it was sooooooo obvious. (this was the BUT)

 

On another note, Sorry FSM, I have to do this.

 

What was that about Moiraine and Lanfear being merged again?

 

Again, sorry, but i couldnt help it.

 

Is the naginata the BUT? The Aiel DF and male channelers theme also starts in book 4.

IMHO, it's a bigger BUT.

 

All right BBM, I asked for it.. But I'm still wondering. (Cue frantic clutching-at-straws of scene with Mierin/Lanfear).

 

Yes, I've been wondering about the ashandarei being the BUT. Could be.

 

Oh, and wasn't that a lovely bit of foreshadowing, when Mat escapes from the gholam in his tent by cutting his way out with it..

[Frostmuse]

You guys have a really crazy notion of "out of character", you know that? I'm fully fluent in two languages and have no problems spelling in either of them, but sometimes I write in lolcats grammar for effect, comical or otherwise. Is that somehow out of character for me?

 

And the important part is, it worked. The outrageous letter was the one that actually reached her. None of the others had, and it wasn't the first one he sent. The comment in the end about Thom laughing should have tipped you off: Thom was laughing at Mat writing a highly zany letter out of the amusement of it, not at Mat's inability to spell - that would have been out of character for Thom. But even if you missed that, the part where he said of course he was going to swear at her, how else would she know it was from him was also clear: Mat and Elayne's rapport was established on swearing.

 

If he'd wanted to write a perfectly proper letter with grammar and spelling and all, he would have. But he's not stupid, he writes the way he wants.

[Maji]

The letter was absolutely awful; can't believe the editors let that through after ACOS. Sanderson's humor is more over-the-top and slapstick, but Harriet should have said something when he screws with the character that badly.

 

Overall, Mat was much better written than in TGS. I would put money on RJ having written the ToG scenes, which I thought were very well done. (These chapters and the two with Aviendha in the columns are the only ones I'm sure RJ wrote; the writing style is just completely different from most of the rest of the book.)

 

I was a little disappointed with the gholam thing. The fight itself wasn't really the climax--we've seen Mat fight it before, and with more immediately at stake. What was important, and made this different, was the Gateway, and we didn't get to see any of the thought process behind that, and didn't even learn it was there until the gholam was falling.

 

I somehow always interpreted "half the light of the world," as "half the Light in the whole wide world," not Mat simply losing an eye. I of course knew that would happen, just always thought of them as two separate events, so I loved the connection there. Not sure why an eye should be all that valuable, though.

 

Moraine did end up saying after that they seem ta'vern seem especially tasteful to the 'Finns. I think it makes perfect sense that he lost the eye, even if we all saw it coming. He had to give up something and it was one of his 3 answers. It would be either that or give up something else like a limb, which he most definitely needs at the last battle. I believe one of Min's first viewings was of darkness surrounding our 3 ta'vern heroes but when they were all together they were keeping the darkness at by, and their little fireflies weren't being gobbled up as quickly. If Mat doens't/didn't make it to the last Battle, it's pretty much over. They ALL 3 need to make it there (doesn't mean they will survive) for the Light to have a chance at winning.

 

 

Mat and Fortuona better meet up in AMoL so he can slap some sense into her and hopefully avoid some other things foretold in the book... It takes two to 'argue' as they say and the Seanchan definitely have some fault there.

[Sharaman]

You guys have a really crazy notion of "out of character", you know that? I'm fully fluent in two languages and have no problems spelling in either of them, but sometimes I write in lolcats grammar for effect, comical or otherwise. Is that somehow out of character for me?

 

And the important part is, it worked. The outrageous letter was the one that actually reached her. None of the others had, and it wasn't the first one he sent. The comment in the end about Thom laughing should have tipped you off: Thom was laughing at Mat writing a highly zany letter out of the amusement of it, not at Mat's inability to spell - that would have been out of character for Thom. But even if you missed that, the part where he said of course he was going to swear at her, how else would she know it was from him was also clear: Mat and Elayne's rapport was established on swearing.

 

If he'd wanted to write a perfectly proper letter with grammar and spelling and all, he would have. But he's not stupid, he writes the way he wants.

I'm fluent in about five languages and I can get by in three more. It's more difficult to deliberately misspell and cross out stuff.

No, this is just BS screwing up (mildly) - it would be ok, if we hadn't already seen a perfectly good and very forceful letter written by Mat.

[TheAngryDruid]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority, but I didn't think the Mat arc was that enjoyable, though the scene at the ToG was very nice.

 

What I liked:

1) Mat using the spear to escape. Very cool. I certainly had no idea. What this the big unnoticed thing?

2) Mo getting out and marrying Thom.

3) Mo isn't stilled.

4) Mo got three wishes, I wonder what she used them on. Very interesting!

5) Someone else came through and destroyed the Tear gateway. Think Weiramon was involved since he was a DF?

 

What I didn't like:

1) The letter he wrote was awful

2) Mat continuing to think that no woman can resist his smile. God, what an ass! Especially since there is ample evidence to the contrary.

3) I'd have thought he'd have written out his wishes before time. He knows they are sneaky. He know he's going to that room. And between he, Thom, Noal, and Perrin, they never discuss/figure out what he's going to say? He just goes in there, wings it, and then asks Thom to kick him if he tries to negotiate again? Man, that's weak. Pretty reckless. It have been cooler if he'd done it right, thought he was going to make it, and then had the snakes tell him that an agreement with the foxes was not binding on them.

4) Verin's letter. Why didn't he open Verin's letter? She told him it wouldn't be onerous. And he liked her. Seemed a bit incongruous. More to the point, why did Verin, who hadn't made a serious mistake in 70 years, leave such a thing to chance? There seem a thousand other ways she could have done it (word the agreement different, tell him it wouldn't take the whole Band to complete, give it to a sister, etc).

[Goramier]

I liked Mats POV in this book. It was a nice touch. I laughed at the letter he wrote and felt it as much (in the book) for its humor then anything else. I can't say anything that happed in the Tower was perticularly suprising. I had not thought of it before but when they were going in, I wondered why Mat didn't use his Ash' to do the drawing and at the end when he was starting his reasoning I had already felt like I know where it was going and it did. I am not trying to say I know whats going on, just that I felt the scene had been well staged to feel right as you read it but without having been predictable before hand, if that makes sense.

 

Mat was not my favorite character in this book which is odd, since he had been for so long. This book as all about Perrin and his redemption as a person, and a character in this book IMO and Mat, though having to go to the Tower which we have been waiting for did, at least to me, feel secondary.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'm fluent in about five languages and I can get by in three more. It's more difficult to deliberately misspell and cross out stuff.

No, this is just BS screwing up (mildly) - it would be ok, if we hadn't already seen a perfectly good and very forceful letter written by Mat.

 

That's you. Is everybody compelled to do things the way you would?

 

Not only do I not write letters identically, I try not to butter my bread the same way twice.

 

Mat wrote for effect. It worked.

[TheAngryDruid]

I was also a bit disappointed in the gholam scene, though maybe I need to re-read.

 

When the golam falls through the gateway onto the platform, I have two questions:

 

1) How does it hold onto the platform before falling? Shouldn't the weaves just melt away? Or are the platforms not a weave, but a function of T'A'R?

 

2) Shouldn't going through a gateway either:

a) Kill the gholam outright since it is a construct, OR

b) Not work at all, as the flows wouldn't affect it?

 

 

Again, I'm not sure I'm correct in any of my assumptions, but they detracted from that scene for me.

[singingsteph]

So, mat gave up half the light of the world to save it. He gave up half the light of the world to save Moraine. Looking forward to the Moraine theories!

She must have the answers we all want to know.

 

Mat Rules.

 

I am a bit sad he lost his eye. Makes him seem weaker. Even though blind luck, etc.. works for him.

 

Looking forward to Mat/Tuon encounter coming up next book. Only a year and 3 months!!!! =)

 

*edit* So, what do we know of son of battles? I don't believe we've heard it before. I wonder who he is. It seems so odd that he wouldn't be a part of the horn heroes if hes being spun out, etc and such an epic general... THE general really.. by the son of battles claim. He's so awesome, lol.

*edit again* haha well not necessarily the general, but obviously the greatest fighter to exist, ever. I'm pretty sure that's a safe bet.

[singingsteph]

So, mat gave up half the light of the world to save it. He gave up half the light of the world to save Moraine. Looking forward to the Moraine theories!

She must have the answers we all want to know.

 

Mat Rules.

 

I am a bit sad he lost his eye. Makes him seem weaker. Even though blind luck, etc.. works for him.

 

Looking forward to Mat/Tuon encounter coming up next book. Only a year and 3 months!!!! =)

 

*edit* So, what do we know of son of battles? I don't believe we've heard it before. I wonder who he is. It seems so odd that he wouldn't be a part of the horn heroes if hes being spun out, etc and such an epic general... THE general really.. by the son of battles claim. He's so awesome, lol.

*edit again* haha well not necessarily the general, but obviously the greatest fighter to exist, ever. I'm pretty sure that's a safe bet.

 

I was absolutely blown away, when he said he'd pay the price and they cut out his eye. Wow!

[AuldGoldBeard]

You guys have a really crazy notion of "out of character", you know that? I'm fully fluent in two languages and have no problems spelling in either of them, but sometimes I write in lolcats grammar for effect, comical or otherwise. Is that somehow out of character for me?

 

And the important part is, it worked. The outrageous letter was the one that actually reached her. None of the others had, and it wasn't the first one he sent. The comment in the end about Thom laughing should have tipped you off: Thom was laughing at Mat writing a highly zany letter out of the amusement of it, not at Mat's inability to spell - that would have been out of character for Thom. But even if you missed that, the part where he said of course he was going to swear at her, how else would she know it was from him was also clear: Mat and Elayne's rapport was established on swearing.

 

If he'd wanted to write a perfectly proper letter with grammar and spelling and all, he would have. But he's not stupid, he writes the way he wants.

 

1. When approximately 80% of dedicated fans who have weighed in on this thread so far all have the same opinion, and you're the one disagreeing, the 80% probably aren't the crazy ones.

 

2. You have a crazy definition of out-of-character if you think Thom laughing at stupidity would be out of character for him.

 

3. Neither the spelling errors nor the crossed-out words would make anyone more likely to bring the letter to Elayne's attention. The tone, certainly, and I can believe the tone is something of what RJ intended. The grammatical mistakes, absolutely not. If anything, the mistakes would make him seem more like a typical mercenary captain with no connection to Elayne.

 

4. Since intentionally including grammatical mistakes would in no way serve Mat's purpose in writing the letter (unlike your writing for comic effect), there is no reason for them to have been included other than Sanderson botching the character.

 

5. In the postscript mentioning Thom, Mat says he was going to rewrite the letter because of the "scratched out words and bad spellings," and the only reason he didn't was because Thom was "laffing" at him. (Laughing at him, not with him.) That's clear-cut evidence they weren't intentional.

 

 

Sanderson screwed up. It happens sometimes. He's a good enough writer that his fanboys don't have to defend every word he ever writes.

[Goramier]

Who got Lanfear out? Mor or Slayer?

 

I haven't reread the scene so I don't recall exactly but I think it was left with a general "man" got her out and saw that Moraine wasn't the one he was after. Basically BS/RJ doesn't out right say if she saw his face or not. If she would have saw his face and it was Luc/Slayer, she would have known. She had been with Lan for a long time and would have known who the man was who looked so much like him. Perrin noticed it so Moraine would have most definately noticed it. I also suspect she would have noticed it without having seen his face, but by judging by size, gate, etc... I think she is smart enough to have had a much better guess and better description then some "man".

 

Neither Mor or Slayer/Luc had any reason to kill her considering where she was. She was being eaten essentially. Slayer would have dismissed her off-hand as not being in any way relevant and Mor would likely have to, especially knowing she was being feasted on and would almost certainly die there...well I think Mor would have thought of it as she was certainly going to die there.

 

Therefore, until I reread the scene and see it otherwise IMHO the "man" was most likely Moridin. They which one it was seems a bit irrelevant. Either could have. Either would have had no problem simply leaving her there and that is what mattered. In the end though, I think it much more likely Mor had been the one.

[MatthewWallace]

I could consider an argument about state of mind affecting his concentration on the letter. People have mentioned that Thom's messing with him is no more distracting than Tylin's distractions but there is more to state of mind. I can make some serious typos/written mistakes when I'm riled up about something (forum flame war or angry letter to wife for example).

 

Then again, its also possible Brandon missed the mark. It just seems to me that every one is jumping on the "Brandon messed that up" bandwagon. Its really easy to say that Brandon fell a little short of the standard set by Jordan than to think through what other reasons there could be.

[Mulk]

Then again, its also possible Brandon missed the mark. It just seems to me that every one is jumping on the "Brandon messed that up" bandwagon. Its really easy to say that Brandon fell a little short of the standard set by Jordan than to think through what other reasons there could be.

 

This. Personally, I love it. The fact that Harriet et al let it pass says to me that those who knew Jordan and his material best thought it fitting enough to stay and that's enough for me.

 

My only complaint? Typos throughout. I don't really pin that on Brandon; not many are very successful at seeing their own typos because you tend to see what you meant instead of what you actually typed. You don't normally catch them all in a book that size I wouldn't think, but imo edit/review at Tor (or by his assistants if they were the ones doing that prior to printing) should have been a bit sharper than that.

[DPT24]

Personally, I didn't find Mat's letter that out of character. A little odd, but not that out of character. Especially because he's "trying to get back to basics" as he tells Perrin.

[Mehn_Deke]

Anyone else getting the vibe that Moiraine's importance is linked to the giant meeting about ready to be held? Or perhaps rooted in the defense of Caemlyn in some manner? Both are possible directions for her to go at this point.

 

I highly doubt she's just going to be a cheerleader.

 

 

My bet?

 

Moiraine is the one that persuades the WT and other women channelers to help Rand, not argue with his plan.

[Sharaman]

I'm fluent in about five languages and I can get by in three more. It's more difficult to deliberately misspell and cross out stuff.

No, this is just BS screwing up (mildly) - it would be ok, if we hadn't already seen a perfectly good and very forceful letter written by Mat.

 

That's you. Is everybody compelled to do things the way you would?

 

Not only do I not write letters identically, I try not to butter my bread the same way twice.

 

Mat wrote for effect. It worked.

Do you spell differently?

[Rootbeer]

I just reread the gholam scene.

 

Am I the only one who had an image of the gholam falling endlessly into blackness, starving and desperately reaching out for the bloody spit that Mat spat out for dramatic purposes? On the other hand, if the gholam did escape, then technically, he did taste Mat's blood and can be free to terrorize his other targets. Then again, it's unlikely.

[dicetosser1]

The letter didn't bother me tooooo much it was a bit ooc but not too bad. BUT some of the other Mat stuff annoyed me such as since when did ANY character in WOT say "yeah"??

 

I dont think BS has a handle on how to write mat the humor is wrong the speech is wrong and mat just doesn't FEEL the same to me.

 

I was actually a little disappointed with the ToG but maybe thats cause i built it up HUGE in my head.

 

From reading previews by jason and that i had expected there to be a lot more mat in this book than there was. Also it took FAR too long for him to actually leave for ToG. BUT i loved the Gholam stuff! not too sure about the ending of him but overall i liked it. (just wish it was killed)

 

One of the things i really didn't like was the stuffing up of some of the old tongue phrases in particular the one on the back cover!! If you are going to put it in such a prominent place then GET IT RIGHT! Dovie'andi se tovya sagain. means its time to TOSS the dice! not roll the dice! (hence why i am diceTOSSER!!! not roller.) and there were a couple of other ones in the text from various characters.

 

So overall i am not real happy with the mat stuff in this book but am glad to see a couple main plot points cleared for him. Now bring on TUON!!! i refuse to call her the other!

[Owayn The Traveller]

Please please let me know if this was brought up.

 

The buns Mat gave to either Teslyn or Joline. When someone was talking to him about the Aes Sedai, Mat asked if the liked the Aes Sedai liked the buns and the reply was yes and Mat was suprised that the weren't peeved over the blue stuff. I cant rememeber who was talking to Mat but I dont think they know anything about the prank Mat played. Is this not strange or is it just late and I'm over reacting?

 

Also can someone please unmuddle that.

[Alanna]

Do you mean when he was talking to Setalle Anan, who had heard from Joline? I don't think he asked her about the buns; Setalle was just telling him that Joline was very grateful for all he had done from them. And then he mentioned the prank in passing, but it was just sort of an offhand comment, which is probably why Setalle didn't really say anything about it.

[MatthewWallace]

I was also a little disappointed by the gholam's end. It was a tactically clever strategy but story-wise it feels like a cop-out to me. I was thinking maybe the asha'man (forget the name) that helped Perrin create his power wrought hammer combined with Elayne's studying of the ter'angreal could result in some sort of anti-gholam blade or some such.

 

I guess I'm just not satisfied with no weakness being found. Its one thing to outmaneuver a specific character who is more wily or more powerful than others like him (e.g. Egwene manipulating people to do stuff she can't lawfully order) but leaving the gholams (since we know there are most likely more that may or may not make appearances) as mostly invincible bothers me. If I'm not mistaken, the shadowspawn are all creations of aginor (a human, w/e the 'chosen' think) created using human abilities (OP/TP). I believe we also have confirmation that Aginor created the gholam also. If it can be created by man then it should be possible to destroy it with the power of man.