Discuss The Full Book

[Darth Krewl]

I have many complaints with the book but like the others who stated theirs, I will read the last book when it comes out. I personally think the story has gotten WAY to convoluted. Scenes that should be jumping out as us and either shocking us or making us do the literarary gasp are lost because we have so many characters, plots and events to digest. I feel the pace of the book is far to fast for the huge story being told. I suspect that is why RJ slowed it down when he did. He likely saw that to flesh out the characters properly he would need to spend more time on them.

 

Funny, 'cause to me, what made Robert Jordan's books much slower than most of his peers was his attention to detail and not so much character or plot development. I agree that the story became too complex and convulsed (I blame that on so many secondary character arcs. And by secondary, I'm talking about so many chapters devoted to the likes of Siuan, Gawyn, Galad, Faile, Tuon, etc. because to me, the main characters are the ones who left the 2 Rivers at the very opening of TEoTW, just like the Hobbits in TLoTR, Harry Potter and his friends, etc. The rest are the supporting cast and IMO, should've been treated as such.) But he also loved to devote lots of paragraphs to describe settings, characters' costumes, etc. and that was his style. What set him apart from most other authors in the field.

 

The thing is, IMO, that Sanderson's style diverts from what people have come to expect from TWOT. And therein may lie the reason why many find the last 2 books different from the rest of the series. But again, IMO Sanderson's done an outstanding job, staying true to Jordan's vision, while at the same time, staying true to his style. Not an easy balancing act for any writer.

[PatsNats28]

Can anyone give me the pg # for where Egwene has the Towers dream?

[TheBeerPatriot]

Can anyone give me the pg # for where Egwene has the Towers dream?

Page 74

[TheBeerPatriot]

Ok, after a full read followed by a first re-read of ToM, I am at long last prepared to discuss the whooooooole book.

 

I very much enjoyed it, especially the Tower of Ghenjei sequence. I knew that they would tease that part out to the end of ToM, but well worth the wait. 16 years is far too long to have been without Moiraine, don't you think?

 

I have to say that I enjoyed Gathering Storm slightly more than Towers for a couple of reasons. First, I think the dueling plotlines of Rand & Egwene really made for a tight narrative in TGS, while the focus was more uneven in ToM. Brandon had indicated the scope would be widening, but I was surprised to see Perrin take up half the book, with Egwene getting almost equal time with Mat. I was hoping Mat would have had nearly as equal time as Perrin, but it still worked out. But my second reason for liking TGS a bit more is that there was some trepidation on whether TGS could deliver, and Brandon really knocked it out of the part; I remember being blown away at how good it was...arguably the best book since TFOH. In that respect, it's unfair to include ToM in such a comparison but nevertheless I do like TGS a bit more for those reasons.

 

The good stuff:

-The One Left Behind: the dramatic buildup between Thom's singing and Mat figuring out the escape from the Tower took some fantastic writing, and was a powerful scene. I definitely pumped my fist in victory as Mat jumped through the doorway to escape the Tower. An outstanding sequence, and a poignant end for Noal/Jain.

-Aviendha! Wow, I was blown away by this. Even though she was only in 3-4 chapters, she nearly stole the book from Perrin and Mat with her final 2 chapters. As dark as that sequence was though, we're left with a glimmer of hope and determination that Aviendha will do whatever it takes for the Aiel to avoid that fate.

-Gawyn: yes, you heard that right. He finally stopped being a total dipsh*t and had a really heroic scene dispatching the Bloodknives while Egwene was Dreaming. Instead of putting him out to pasture over and over again (granted, Gawyn deserved some of it), Egwene finally stopped being totally arrogant with him and bonded him. Finally!

-Egwene: that was a great showdown with Mesaana, dispatching the a'dam before disposing of the great Forsaken researcher..er, teacher ;) Egwene has truly united the Tower just in time for the Last Battle.

-Perrin's forging of the magic hammer-epic!

-Perrin's fight with Slayer-EPICCCCCC!!!!!

-Mat's confrontation with the Gholam: loved how he tricked it into the gateway. Quite original way to finish off that menace to society!

-MOIRAINE. Woohoo!!!!

-Epilogue: is this the best epilogue in WoT thus far? I think this one trumps LOC and KoD's epilogues.

 

The stuff I didn't like as much:

-Perrin's long drawn out judgement with the Whitecloaks. Simply dragged out too long over several chapters. I understand that there needed to be room for more development from both Galad and Perrin, but it just seemed to go on and on. Although I liked most of Perrin's chapters, there were a few around this sequence that could have been trimmed to allow more coverage of other plots (i.e. other Forsaken, Seanchan, Black Tower)

-Not enough Forsaken/Shadow: with the exception of Graendal (and Mesaana to a lesser extent), there was very little coverage of the Forsaken in the penultimate book. Aside from Cyndane and brief appearances from Moridin, we still see nothing of the other remaining Forsaken (no, Aran'gar doesn't count ;) I was expecting to see more scenes surrounding the forces of the Shadow, especially more from Shaidar Haran and Padan Fain. Yes, we get a scene each from those two, but I'm greedy and want more more MORE!

-Borderlanders: this one troubled me. Not so much the slapping/heckling of Rand (although some of that was ridiculous), but the prophecy that Paitar quoted to Rand? It seems a bit vague and opportunistic of them to suddenly bring that to the forefront. Perhaps we need to wait until AMoL to truly judge this scene, but it didn't ring true with me.

 

Overall:

I give this 4 out of 5. Despite any shortcomings, Towers of Midnight did deliver the goods. However, there is still sooo much left to be played out. I know Brandon is sincere when he states there is 1/3 of the outline remaining to be covered, but I can't help but think that AMoL will turn out to be the largest book in WoT. Think of what's still in play as we gear up for the Last Battle:

-Seanchan

-Black Tower: big mystery with Logain which will definitely take up a good chunk of AMoL

-fallout from Aviendha's experience among the columns

-Borderlanders: what are they hiding?

-the Forsaken: Moghedien? Cyndane? Graendal? Demandred? Moridin? Hmmmmmmmm?

 

Thanks for tolerating my review, I needed to get out my initial thoughts on it. Let's discuss!

[parsnip2009]

Stop whining. Jordan made an amazing world is awesome characters. Its not always about the main characters and epic endings. He made a complete world and i for one am glad coz i enjoyed every bit of it.

 

Only he didn't make a complete world. We don't really get to see inside Seanchan. We don't get to go to Shara. We don't go to the Island of Madmen. We didn't even get to meet the Amyar before they all drank the kool-aid. We've barely had a glimpse of Sea Folk society.

 

Jordan got lost in lace and frills and fluff and spankings to the point where there was neither time not space to create that complete world. We're stuck with knowing far too much about far too many trivial things and people in a fragment of a complete world.

 

That's not good writing.

 

I tend to agree with this. I also feel this is part of the reason why none of these elements were necessary to the story. We have indeed barely had a glimpse of Sea Folk society, but perhaps this is a good thing, as how many different societies and communities do we need?

 

It's a complete immersive world. But he was writing a story about that world, and not all places are relevent to the story. While I agree that his level of detail can be overwhelming (to the point of annoyance for some), I find it helps me visualize scenes or people in a way I can't with many other stories. Just think, if these are ever made into a movie/miniseries all of the detail for various scenes/costumes will be prewritten.

 

I'm confused by a couple things I've read regarding places/people that should or shouldn't appear. It seems contradictory to complain about too much stuff being in the books that you don't need to read about, while simultaneously complaining that you don't get to learn about inconsequencial people/places like Shara, the Seafolk, or the Land of Madmen. Much of the world/cultural details will probably come out if there's an Encyclopedia WoT published by BS/Harriet. RJ undoubtedly had a host of notes about the world that isn't depicted in the books. Not to mention, these places may still be come relevent to the plot and receive a big (if not complete) reveal in aMoL.

 

 

To answer you saying im being contradictory, allow me to clarify.

 

I have no problem with the seanchan, sea folk, knitting circle, rodel etc being given full service and time spent on their stories in the novels, if, it is not at the expense of the primary characters.

 

Ideally i would like a 17-18 book series, to really justify the world Jordan created. Obviously this is impossible.

 

As such i find it frustrating that any time is spent on these, in my view not even secondary, but tertiary storylines getting in the way of essentially Rand.

 

I hope that clarifies what i was saying.

[parsnip2009]

Yes that is fair. I do think that Gathering Storm was one of the best in the series. In my opinion Towers Of Midnight is not. That doesn't mean that i dont think Brandon is doing as good a job as might be expected.

 

I agree. The Gathering Storm weighs in for me at #4. Towers of Midnight was still good, but it ranks about 7th or 8th of the books (it's better than 8-12, for me). I just don't know how he can finish everything in A Memory of Light!

 

 

As i said, i believe it to be an impossible task to do Memory of Light due justice.

[FarShainMael]

 

Rand is wearing the sword in the dragon scabbard (Justice). I think he may use it to carry the day with Fortuona (mslf), perhaps by revealing himself as Hawkwing's descendant. That sword should in any case have a powerful effect on the Seanchan when they recognise it for what it is.

 

Just a thought.

 

I think this is very possible but I have a hard time thinking Fotuana would see it and think, "that resolves it for me." I would agree though that she could see that as an omen and it would weigh on her decision to join Rand or change her views. Perhaps finding out that all of those who are the leash leaders (forget the name) can channel, that Rand has that sword, and that her prophecies were very likely tainted by a forsaken would cause her to simply change on the spot assuming she believed it all or was given proof. I don't think any of them alone would do it though BS has written the characters to be much more understanding or reasonable to help conclude the series in what I feel is a much shorter period then would have really been possible.

 

I'd certainly agree with that. No single factor is going to change the Empress's mind; but there have now been a succession of such factors, the ones you mention, and her relationship with Mat. I would hope that by the time she gets to meet Rand once more, these things will have been fermenting within her.

 

And then of course, there's Rand's super-ta'veren influence. She withstood him before when he was Darth Rand. Now he's Zen Rand Sedai, with Hawkwing's sword in clear view, that is a bit different.

[rhadamanthus]

Finished it last night. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

Good things:

1) Mat and Rand being awesome.

2) Perrin (finally) being awesome.

3) Nyneave and Egwene starting to make tangible changes to those goofball aes sedai.

4) Avi's story: creepy and disturbing but very powerful.

5) Moiraine - nuff said.

6) About eleventy-billion other things. Great book. Damn I cannot wait for aMoL.

 

Bad things:

1) Will someone please annihilate those damn seanchan. I am so sick of their stubborn hypocrisy and disgusting culture.

2) I thought the borderlander thing was very strange. Why drag the armies with you for that? To assure Rand's attention? That's preposterous.

3) Verin's letter is confusing. Not much of a demand, so why the order that Mat had to "do what it said"?

4) Wish we had seen more black tower scenes.

[Axon]

There were three things I wasn't much of a fan of:

 

1. Dreamspikes. Why is this the first we're hearing of it?

 

2. Prophecies of the Shadow: Again, the first we're hearing of this is the penultimate volume of the series? One of the more competent forsaken did not even know of it until now. Felt like a lame throw in for me. I wonder if this was RJ's plot point or Brandon's.

 

3. Messana went down like a punk. I hate dream battles. zzzz...I suppose it wasn't the end of the world, since she did virtually nothing throughout the series.

[Cyf]

1. Dreamspikes. Why is this the first we're hearing of it?

 

Why would we have heard of something till it's necessary? And for the record, Jordan mentioned various ways that Travelling could be blocked in interviews.

 

2. Prophecies of the Shadow: Again, the first we're hearing of this is the penultimate volume of the series? One of the more competent forsaken did not even know of it until now. Felt like a lame throw in for me. I wonder if this was RJ's plot point or Brandon's.

 

You mean besides the Shadow Prophecy in The Great Hunt written on the wall in Fal Dara when Fain escaped? :) Shadow Prophecies have been around since nearly the beginning, just not mentioned except when they're important to the plot.

 

3. Messana went down like a punk. I hate dream battles. zzzz...I suppose it wasn't the end of the world, since she did virtually nothing throughout the series.

 

Other than being instrumental in breaking the White Tower, you mean? :)

[Axon]

 

Why would we have heard of something till it's necessary? And for the record, Jordan mentioned various ways that Travelling could be blocked in interviews.

 

See, I'm just not that hardcore, I don't follow every interview. Nonetheless, it felt like a sudden deus ex machina plot device. It could have been utilized at any time to take out, or try to take out, Mat, Rand, Perrin, Egwene...etc. I can't buy the "necessary only at this stage" justification, but good to know RJ wanted it in.

 

You mean besides the Shadow Prophecy in The Great Hunt written on the wall in Fal Dara when Fain escaped? :) Shadow Prophecies have been around since nearly the beginning, just not mentioned except when they're important to the plot.

 

I'm not surprised to learn this, but they still make little sense to me. Who else saw this prophecy? Any main light people? Why would the Shadow even need them, given that their whole point is to destroy the pattern? This is a slippery slope in my eyes. Who's prophecies are...correct? I guess with the shadow, it's only correct when they finally win. Unless Rand finally really wins this time. But then the shadow's prophecies are still worthless.

 

Other than being instrumental in breaking the White Tower, you mean? :)

 

White Tower is still standing + Messana's efforts mostly off-screen x crushed in about 10 seconds = totally unsatisfying(for me). I did like the Rand in a box plot, however. The White Tower split plot is one I've had a beef with, but sure, it was there.

[jmniles]

 

Why would we have heard of something till it's necessary? And for the record, Jordan mentioned various ways that Travelling could be blocked in interviews.

 

See, I'm just not that hardcore, I don't follow every interview. Nonetheless, it felt like a sudden deus ex machina plot device. It could have been utilized at any time to take out, or try to take out, Mat, Rand, Perrin, Egwene...etc. I can't buy the "necessary only at this stage" justification, but good to know RJ wanted it in.

 

You mean besides the Shadow Prophecy in The Great Hunt written on the wall in Fal Dara when Fain escaped? :) Shadow Prophecies have been around since nearly the beginning, just not mentioned except when they're important to the plot.

 

I'm not surprised to learn this, but they still make little sense to me. Who else saw this prophecy? Any main light people? Why would the Shadow even need them, given that their whole point is to destroy the pattern? This is a slippery slope in my eyes. Who's prophecies are...correct? I guess with the shadow, it's only correct when they finally win. Unless Rand finally really wins this time. But then the shadow's prophecies are still worthless.

 

Other than being instrumental in breaking the White Tower, you mean? :)

 

White Tower is still standing + Messana's efforts mostly off-screen x crushed in about 10 seconds = totally unsatisfying(for me). I did like the Rand in a box plot, however. The White Tower split plot is one I've had a beef with, but sure, it was there.

 

It has been stated multiple times that prophecies don' tell what WILL happen but what could happen if certain conditions are met

[Terez]

Where is that stated? Other than the fact that they won't happen if the Pattern is destroyed.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Where is that stated? Other than the fact that they won't happen if the Pattern is destroyed.

 

That's one of the conclusions that Rand has come to concerning prophesies. Not sure exactly when he first mentions it. Not that many books ago, but not fifteen minutes ago either.

[didymos]

Where is that stated? Other than the fact that they won't happen if the Pattern is destroyed.

 

It's certainly implied when Mat asks what happens if he refuses to go to Rhuidean:

 

"You will have sidestepped the thread of fate, left your fate to drift on the winds of time, and you will be killed by those who do not want that fate fulfilled."

 

and these RJ quotes (I'm pretty sure you know where I found them):

 

Knife of Dreams book tour, Santa Cruz, CA 29 October 2005 - hermano de lobos reporting

 

...One person asked something to the effect of 'How valid are the viewings and prophecies, given that the pattern has been loosened?' There was also a comment by the person about how the viewings and prophecies are readings of the pattern.

 

Jordan responded (not word for word): The viewings and prophecies that occured before the loosening of the pattern are very valid. But those that occured at, or after, the loosening have a higher chance of not coming true.

Scifi.com Chat 1 November 1998

 

Rothaar: When Rand takes Verin and the others through a portal stone in The Great Hunt, at the end of each life he hears "I have won again Lews Therin". I thought that if the Dark One won even once the Wheel would be broken and therefore the Dragon would not be reborn again. How could the Dark One have won before to be able to say "again"?

 

RJ: There are degrees of victory. The Dark One can achieve victory by breaking free, but can also achieve lesser victories. Such as by stopping the Dragon Reborn from doing other things he was born to do. It isn't as simple as him being born to fight the Dark One. It's never simple.

 

and this quote from tGH:

 

"Even prophecy can fail if the one prophesied is slain or gentled. And then we face the Dark One naked to the storm."

 

and this from tDR:

 

"He will fulfill no prophecies dead, and even if he manages to avoid Darkfriends and Shadowspawn, there are a thousand other hands ready to slay him."

 

and these from tSR (admittedly, the first is from Lanfear):

 

"Prophecy is no more than the sign of what people hope for. Fulfilling the Prophecies will only bind you to a path leading to Tarmon Gai'don and your death."

 

"Prophecy is most dangerous when you try to make it happen. Did you not learn that in Tear? The Pattern weaves itself around you, but when you try to weave it, even you cannot hold it. Force the Pattern to tight, and pressure builds. It can explode wildly in every direction. Who can say how long before it settles to focus on you again, or what will happen before it does?"

 

and LoC:

 

He had lived too many prophecies to believe any of them meant exactly what they said. Or even that they ensured anything. In his opinion, prophecy set the conditions that had to be met for a thing to happen; only meeting them did not mean the thing would happen, just that it could.

 

That and most of what the Forsaken (especially Ishamael/Moridin) do is attempt to circumvent the Prophecies in one way or another. Sure, maybe they're just deluded, but they certainly believe it is possible to achieve. It's worth noting though that Cadsuane is a dissenter and thinks the only way any form of prophecy could fail is, as you mentioned, with the destruction of the Pattern. Personally, I find the what the Aelfinn said to Mat to be the most persuasive, as far as in-world stuff goes.

[Axon]

I dunno...I don't think I'd want to follow the shadow under any circumstances if I had to live up to any of those prophecies. Heh.

[pfgonzo]

I was kind of hoping for Rand to take another stab at an alliance with the Seanchan. He still doesn't know about Mat/Tuon. Next book!

 

I keep imagining this scene in my head where Rand shows up to the Tarasin palace, bringing Mat and Perrin with him for some extra ooomph in the ta`veren department. I picture a scene where Rand leads everyone into the throne room, and one of the Deathwatch guard yells "Everyone kneel to the Prince of the Ravens!" Rand will assume it's a reference to himself (perhaps some Seanchan prophecy that he's never heard about), until Mat clears his throat and walks past him and up to Tuon.

 

Prolly won't happen like that, but I still can't wait for the full reunion!

 

[update] for those who don't follow BS's tweets: Someone asked him if the fog that came about in tPoD when Rand snuck into Toram Raitin's gathering was a bubble of evil, or something Fain brought about. BS replied with a "RAFO"

 

I don't think we've been told the fog he zombified the Trollocks with in ToM is similar to Mashadar or not, but if Fain/Mordeth can just bring up this fog at will, he's certainly growing in power since we last saw him.

[Guest jordansfan]

Finished the Book! LOVE IT! Best Birthday present ever! (Book was released same day!) No idea how I'm going to get through the next 12-18 months waiting for the final installment!

 

One thing I noticed though and not sure if I missed something or I haven't paid enough attention to the time-line. In Chapter 46 - Working Leather - Androl, while in the Black Tower '..wove a tiny gateway..' Yet throughout the book Asha'man, and Rand, mention they can't open gateways to or from the Black Tower (obviously a Dreamspike)..? Then, in Chapter 56, Androl is unable to create a 'regular sized' gateway.

Does this possibly mean that 'mini' gateways are able to be created (whatever use that would be) but gateways big enough to allow someone to pass through can't be created?

 

p.s. Sorry if this has already been discussed but with the search function not working it was really difficult to check all the threads :)

[Sharaman]

The artist that was formerly known as Padan Fain can still apparently be killed by a channeler operating from a distance - provided he doesn't see the channeler first. If he does, he'll maze the channeler with illusions and mashadar him as well.

Otherwise, he's pretty much immune to anything.

 

@Jordansfan No all Gates just collapse once the Dspike is in action. That tiny Gate tells us something about the timeline of when it went into action and also helps introduce Androl as a character with an interesting mysterious back story (we've seen him before of course).

[Guest chrisicc]

Am I the only one that laughs at people that read a spoiler thread and then complain about it?

 

1: I assume most of Mat's screentime will involve Ghenjei, but do Mat and Tuon get screentime together? (a simple yes/no suffices here)

 

2: Do we see Suffa at all? (yes/no only would be great)

 

3: Do we get to see Mat in action commanding the Band at all?

 

These are the things I'm curious about in TOM that I feel doesn't really give away plot details, but allows me to look forward to these scenes, as I already do. So these questions are harbored out of hope of seeing these things in TOM.

 

4: Last question, do the supergirls - Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve come to appreciate Mat more in this book? This is directed at Elayne moreso than the others. (once again a simple yes/no is fine here - I don't mind and would rather not have intimate plot details )

 

no yes yes kinda

[GusE]

I recently scrolled throught the reviews on Amazon.com; so far 72 x 5 stars, 19 x 4 stars, 8 x 3 stars, 1 x 2 stars and 25 x 1 star. Was wondering how someone could give it a low rating, scrolled through and it turns out none of them read the book lol.

[Freud]

The silly reviewers at Amazon are now handing out 1 star reviews to books that don't have an ebook out yet. Their way of 'protest'.

[nolirion]

I was kind of hoping for Rand to take another stab at an alliance with the Seanchan. He still doesn't know about Mat/Tuon. Next book!

 

I keep imagining this scene in my head where Rand shows up to the Tarasin palace, bringing Mat and Perrin with him for some extra ooomph in the ta`veren department. I picture a scene where Rand leads everyone into the throne room, and one of the Deathwatch guard yells "Everyone kneel to the Prince of the Ravens!" Rand will assume it's a reference to himself (perhaps some Seanchan prophecy that he's never heard about), until Mat clears his throat and walks past him and up to Tuon.

 

Prolly won't happen like that, but I still can't wait for the full reunion!

 

[update] for those who don't follow BS's tweets: Someone asked him if the fog that came about in tPoD when Rand snuck into Toram Raitin's gathering was a bubble of evil, or something Fain brought about. BS replied with a "RAFO"

 

I don't think we've been told the fog he zombified the Trollocks with in ToM is similar to Mashadar or not, but if Fain/Mordeth can just bring up this fog at will, he's certainly growing in power since we last saw him.

He don't know they are married but he does know there is a connection

[FanoLan]

We learned in this book that Graendal controls Slayer (might have learned it before but it was news to me at the time) since she gave the Dreamspike to him to trap Perrin. So if Greandal was responsible for Asmodean's death, couldn't it have just been Slayer directed by her? The other 2 she was responsible for she didn't directly kill either.

 

She didnt have access to Slayer until ToM. "I will lend you another tool, the man with two souls. But he is mine, just as that spike is mine. Just as you are mine." If anything we learn that Moridin has been controlling Slayer. Moridin gave Graendel both the spike and use of slayer to kill Perrin.

 

Not sure of the repercussions from the following, but would like to get some feedback from my fellow WOTicts.

 

Thinking about the above quoted confirmation of Slayer belonging to Moridin led me to conclude we now know Halima'gar, while impersonating Moridin, was behind the Slayer attempt on Rand and Min in Far Madding. S/he thinks about wanting to kill the Dragon (Nae'blis be damned) and also on one of the other Chosen using her method of impersonating other Chosen to issue orders to tools of the DO (who's Sammy, s/he said). Seems like six and six make a dozen here....unless I'm missing the mess.

 

Any ideas on potential significance going forward? Or as an explanation for something done?

 

We already knew the Chosen could access Slayer and this adds nothing to our knowledge of the mechanics of getting it done (TAR, ter', Chez Luc/Isam???). Is the knowledge of the ploy merely a further fleshing out of the Halima'gar story? Maybe to cement the self-interest first aspect of the Chosen for something to come? But that point has been heartily affirmed, re-affirmed and terrafirmed ; >, if a reader has missed that point so far, they surely wouldn't pick up on this somewhat subtle reminder.

 

A chin-scratcher for me at this point.

 

Pretty sure at Far Madding Slayers target was Nyn and Lan not Rand.

 

Do not have the books in hand, but I seem to recall Slayer referencing a failed attempt on his nephew and the wench when reporting back to his handler. Would that not mean Rand as son of Tigraine?

[FanoLan]

So, has anyone else noticed that the bracelet angreal that Morraine was wearing is the same one that Lanfear was wearing when she confronted Rand at the end of FoH. Same description. Any speculation about it?

 

Is there anything to speculate on? Here's how I see it:

 

1. Lanfear and Moiraine fall through into their realm.

 

2. Lanfear is the strongest and wearing the Angreal so they start draining her first.

 

3. Someone comes to retrieve Lanfear when she is very weak in the Power. The Finn take the Angreal as part of the bargain or the person who came for Lanfear left it behind.

 

4. The Finn puts the Angreal on Moiraine and begin to drain her. Probably more slowly than they drained Lanfear since she was the only one they had left to feed on.

 

This is basically how I saw it. I think the book did explain it and this is it, though I cannot recall any exact language. They drained Lanfear first who died because they did it to fast, so they put it on Moraine and drained her much slower so they could be in their "high" state for longer. I think they transfered the angreal because it created even more of a high for them since it made her more powerful. If you sum up the finns in modern terms, they are addicts. Kinda like the Elfs in Warcraft lore, if your familiar with it.

 

 

 

Rand is wearing the sword in the dragon scabbard (Justice). I think he may use it to carry the day with Fortuona (mslf), perhaps by revealing himself as Hawkwing's descendant. That sword should in any case have a powerful effect on the Seanchan when they recognise it for what it is.

 

Just a thought.

 

I think this is very possible but I have a hard time thinking Fotuana would see it and think, "that resolves it for me." I would agree though that she could see that as an omen and it would weigh on her decision to join Rand or change her views. Perhaps finding out that all of those who are the leash leaders (forget the name) can channel, that Rand has that sword, and that her prophecies were very likely tainted by a forsaken would cause her to simply change on the spot assuming she believed it all or was given proof. I don't think any of them alone would do it though BS has written the characters to be much more understanding or reasonable to help conclude the series in what I feel is a much shorter period then would have really been possible.

 

 

Moiraine clawed the bracelet from Lanfear's wrist when she grappled her through the twisted doorway Ter'. It's explicit in the text.