Discuss The Full Book

[dfchang]

 

 

- Perrin showing Egwene that common Dreamwalkers are nothing compared to Wolfdreamers had me laughing for five minutes.

 

IMHO, it is all a matter of perspective. Weapons are more real to Perrin in T'AR than weaves and he can be hurt by them. Once Egwene saw how he overcame weaves by simple disbelief, she was able to follow suit. But since she was a channeler before she was a Dreamwalker, it is logical that something like this would have never occurred to her. Also, being tutored by a native of T'AR who didn't hedge him with tons of silly restrictions like the WOs did Egwene was a definite advantage.

 

Well, come on, going into NIGHTMARES to build up control of the Dream is pretty intense. If you slip, you can die just like that. The wolves ARE NOT human and Perrin has been trained in a way that would NEVER be condoned by the Wise Ones. He is taveren and has some natural talent in this area.

 

Of course he has limitations that Egwene does not and there are certain things she can do that he can not because he hasn't been trained. But in sheer strength in the dream world, he's probably got the edge because of his training with the nightmares and battles with Slayer.

 

Dennis

[Bob T Dwarf]

Keep in mind, people...not everyone who has read the book has a brain.

 

The Tin Man is Here??? Where????

 

Toto didn't bark or nuthin.

 

;-^

[Kestrel]

I appreciate those of you who are putting up early spoilers.

 

For me, it would be hard to get a release date worse than Nov 2nd. I'm going to be up to my eyeballs in Real Life workload for the full first three weeks of November. Having this book burning a hole in my hands, without having the time to actually read any of it for several weeks, would be just awful.

 

No, it doesn't ruin the story for me to have the 5-cent tour and know how it ends before I read it. This is kind of like watching a movie where I get the high points of the story, then reading the book behind the movie to get all the rest of the details which landed on the editing room floor.

 

After all this buildup and waiting (and after having to leave the book on a shelf for another 3 weeks after I buy it), I would probably be so impatient that I would have done a lot skipping back and forth anyway. Thanks to all the rest of you, I can now read the book much more placidly.

[Beren]

who did lead the circle when they did create the powerwrought hammer? I guess no Aes Sedai as they have a restricition.

There were no Aes Sedai in the circle, only Wise Ones. Brandon said that it probably wouldn't work if there were Oath-bound Aes Sedai in the circle.

 

I just smacked myself in the head. Yes, I am an idiot in this regard. :/ I think they must have just been watching or might not have been there at all when it was forged. I did read this thing in 8 hours and my friend is borrowing it now so I may not be completely accurate in things like that.

 

---

 

As for badass moments.

 

Perrin takes the cake in this book followed by Rand and Mat who are tied for second.

 

PERRIN

1) Believes the balefire woven at him in T'a'R isn't there and it just disappears into his hand. (I would have loved to get a description of Egwene's thoughts at that point)

2) EPIC fight with Slayer and I love how he won it, by dumping himself and Slayer into a Nightmare where he had the advantage.

3) Forging of Mah'alleinir with a circle putting Saidar AND Saidin into it. This particular section is one of my favorite parts of the entire series. Perin finally comes to terms with himself and who he is and you see it as he is forging the hammer. The imagery here is just incredible. I would think this is a part that RJ had to have written most of.

 

RAND

1) Kills 100,000+ Darkspawn (Myrdraal, Trollocs and Drakghar) by himself. It was one of those moments where you have to go back and reread it just because you can't believe he just did that.

2) Rand walking into the White Tower followed by TWO circles of 13 Aes Sedai who are SCARED of him even at that point.

3) Meeting with Cadsuane

 

MAT

1) EPIC kill of the Gholam

2) Tower of Ghenjei and his luck.

3) His luck got BETTER after he lost an eye apparently. The scene where he just throws a knife BEHIND him and kills a rabbit is amazing.

 

GAWYN

1) 1v3 against the Bloodknives WITH their Ter'Angreal was nuts. That made up for everything he has put us through in the rest of the series.

 

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Touching Moments

 

1) Rand and Tam again after Dragonmount tops it all.

2) Morgase and Tallanvor (about time)

3) Perrin and Noam

4) Hopper (RIP)

5) Olver (it just made me want to cry when we got that PoV in the epilogue)

6) Thom and Moiraine (the part where he pulls her out)

7) Rand/LTT and Mierin

 

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They've had it coming moments

 

1) Graendal. It only took how maany dead Chosen before they reigned her in?

2) Byar. Go Dain Bornhald. (I want to see how he resolves this in AMoL)

3) Slayer. Epic win for Perrin, but Slayer's not gone yet.

 

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The biggest reveals

 

1) Graendal killed Asmodean. (I was wrong)

2) Mesaana as Danelle (I was right)

3) The Tower of Ghenjei sequence (I was partly wrong)

 

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The biggest "Oh Crap!" moments

 

1) Caemlyn in flames

2) The Black Tower is about to implode

3) Olver... NO! If you do, I will dig up your grave and do something horrible to your body RJ! (not really, but still...)

4) The Prophecy of the Shadow at the end of the book

[Jeangray]

So, what do you guys think about Lanfear's 3 wishes? Apparently she got them, after all. And also, did the Finn destroy the Tear portal? Why? Just to keep Mat inside? And if they enjoy emotions/experiences, why do they kill intruders, rather than harvesting their despair for years?

1 : 1000 coming out of ToG again... hm. Are the Finn responsible for depopulation of Randland now? Because Mat has memories of hundreds of men who got out again, doesn't he? Their death scenes don't include the Finn either.

If I was the Finn, I'd keep the ratio much more enticing to keep the steady supply of hopefuls coming. Particularly now that the Tear portal is apparently gone as well.

[Beren]

So, what do you guys think about Lanfear's 3 wishes? Apparently she got them, after all. And also, did the Finn destroy the Tear portal? Why? Just to keep Mat inside? And if they enjoy emotions/experiences, why do they kill intruders, rather than harvesting their despair for years?

1 : 1000 coming out of ToG again... hm. Are the Finn responsible for depopulation of Randland now? Because Mat has memories of hundreds of men who got out again, doesn't he? Their death scenes don't include the Finn either.

If I was the Finn, I'd keep the ratio much more enticing to keep the steady supply of hopefuls coming. Particularly now that the Tear portal is apparently gone as well.

 

Yes, Lanfear got her wishes. What they are, who knows? Look at what Cyndane has been doing and guess away.

 

As for melting the Tear portal, my guess is Moridin.

[Tervvo]

A spoiler of a type.With all of this happening in this book, is there a chance in hades to wrap up with one more book?

 

I have read most replies but it is a long thread and may have missed an answer /opinion on this.

[The Fisher King]

A spoiler of a type.With all of this happening in this book, is there a chance in hades to wrap up with one more book?

 

I have read most replies but it is a long thread and may have missed an answer /opinion on this.

 

At this point, all indications are currently pointing to a Split for AMOL.

 

Wait ... Deja V...

 

 

 

Fish

[Stevros]

Just finished and all I can say is Wow. (I'm going to bed now, and I'm hoping that epilogue was just a bad dream, I had Rand and the light as favorites till then, now I'm not too sure) If RJ and BS think they can end the series with a victory for the shadow...

[DottieGirl]

Just finished and all I can say is Wow. (I'm going to bed now, and I'm hoping that epilogue was just a bad dream, I had Rand and the light as favorites till then, now I'm not too sure) If RJ and BS think they can end the series with a victory for the shadow...

In some ways wouldn't that almost be more interesting though? I mean, everyone seems to implicitly assume the Light siders are going to win. Wouldn't a Shadow victory be an interesting twist on the fantasy genre? See how the DO really ticks? I don't think this will happen, but it would be a courageous/fascinating direction for an author to take for a change.

[Stevros]

Just finished and all I can say is Wow. (I'm going to bed now, and I'm hoping that epilogue was just a bad dream, I had Rand and the light as favorites till then, now I'm not too sure) If RJ and BS think they can end the series with a victory for the shadow...

In some ways wouldn't that almost be more interesting though? I mean, everyone seems to implicitly assume the Light siders are going to win. Wouldn't a Shadow victory be an interesting twist on the fantasy genre? See how the DO really ticks? I don't think this will happen, but it would be a courageous/fascinating direction for an author to take for a change.

 

 

I know what you mean, but after giving 10 years of my life reading these books supporting the light. I don't know if I could take it.

 

 

 

Also I have loads of highlights but one of my favorites has to be:

 

"you may call me Rand Sedai"

[Sharaman]

So, what do you guys think about Lanfear's 3 wishes? Apparently she got them, after all. And also, did the Finn destroy the Tear portal? Why? Just to keep Mat inside? And if they enjoy emotions/experiences, why do they kill intruders, rather than harvesting their despair for years?

1 : 1000 coming out of ToG again... hm. Are the Finn responsible for depopulation of Randland now? Because Mat has memories of hundreds of men who got out again, doesn't he? Their death scenes don't include the Finn either.

If I was the Finn, I'd keep the ratio much more enticing to keep the steady supply of hopefuls coming. Particularly now that the Tear portal is apparently gone as well.

Lanfear must have got her wishes given what Moiraine said about the bargains being obligatory to anyone who came through the Rhuidean portal.

Maybe they prefer the high adrenaline emotions of somebody who is dying violently to slow despair?

The 1:1000 is a random, probably exaggerated guess ratio.

We don't know how the Finns harvest memories. Maybe the era (Mat's memories are specific to a certain period) when ToG was being widely used by adventurers had enough back and forth between Finnland-WoTland for bargainers to ask to be released free as one of their wishes, (they'd still get two).

One mildly puzzling thing - Rand channeled his sword of fire and walked out the first time in Tear. If the Finns can drain channelers quickly, they could have captured and killed him. Why didn't they?

On a different tack, we still don't know how (and where) Asmo died - wonder if we'll ever find out the modus operandi because RJ said that was important in ensuring that he couldn't be resurrected. So it wasn't just BFire.

[Diederichos]

Week 14 Question: Military strategy in the War of Power must have been odd, indeed. How do the concepts of capturing and holding territory even make sense in a world where forces can Travel?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Good question, though not all of the forces involved could use gateways. (Rafo! Rafo!) Think of the ability to Travel in terms of moving troops via aircraft, and you will begin to get the picture. Even with the largest possible circles, there are limits to the size of gateways and thus limits to the front along which you can move troops out through it, the numbers you can commit simultaneously. Of course, you can use multiple gateways, but each is still only so large and can admit only so many soldiers at a time.

 

So-called front lines were very fluid, but you couldn't fling your forces in anywhere without regard to what would be surrounding them or how you were going to resupply, reinforce or withdraw them. Although no one has shown it so far in the books, there are ways to interfere with the making of a gateway - and ways to defend against interference - so the battle would take place on many levels.

 

I expect the counter to the Dreamspike mentionned by RJ to figure prominently in aMoL, any thoughts?

[KefkaPalazzo]

Couple questions:

1. Is there anything from Laras? Who is she, how much does she know, etc.

2. Do we see Aginor coming back? If getting glassed 10 minutes after getting freed warrants a new body, months of spying on Rand and influencing the BT would warrant something, wouldn't it?

[MattTaz]

Wow, just sounds a great book. I read all the spoilers here, because I have a lot on with work over Nov and theres no freakin way i'm gonna wait

a month to finish this book.

The Rand/Moridin merging thing sounds interesting. Is Moridin the Champion for the Shadow?

With RJ being into balance and this being the Last Battle, be interesting to see if Randridin - yes you heard it first here folks :)

does a Jim Henson's Dark Crystal type of thing.

I dont usually get misty-eyed with WoT, but Rand's reunion with his Dad just might do it.

I hope Perrin and Mat had a good chat as well, good to see those two catch up after 9 books?

The One-Eyed Fool wandering the Halls of Mourning - gee, i'm really thinking Olver is going to die

Mat is a Gateway from returning so I dont think I see the whole Band getting rolled over????

I could have sworn Rand put a Web over the Waygate at Camelyn and Cairhein just like Shadar Logoth

If so the Trollocs will die, but from memory of CoS not straight away.

Just so many things, if they decide to split AMOL into 2 parts - fine by me :)

[The Fisher King]

Wow, just sounds a great book. I read all the spoilers here, because I have a lot on with work over Nov and theres no freakin way i'm gonna wait

a month to finish this book.

The Rand/Moridin merging thing sounds interesting. Is Moridin the Champion for the Shadow?

With RJ being into balance and this being the Last Battle, be interesting to see if Randridin - yes you heard it first here folks :)

does a Jim Henson's Dark Crystal type of thing.

I dont usually get misty-eyed with WoT, but Rand's reunion with his Dad just might do it.

I hope Perrin and Mat had a good chat as well, good to see those two catch up after 9 books?

The One-Eyed Fool wandering the Halls of Mourning - gee, i'm really thinking Olver is going to die

Mat is a Gateway from returning so I dont think I see the whole Band getting rolled over????

I could have sworn Rand put a Web over the Waygate at Camelyn and Cairhein just like Shadar Logoth

If so the Trollocs will die, but from memory of CoS not straight away.

Just so many things, if they decide to split AMOL into 2 parts - fine by me :)

 

Its looking that way - almost unavoidable, actually - and it would be JUST Fine with me too, lol! :)

 

 

 

Fish

[Beren]

Wow, just sounds a great book. I read all the spoilers here, because I have a lot on with work over Nov and theres no freakin way i'm gonna wait

a month to finish this book.

The Rand/Moridin merging thing sounds interesting. Is Moridin the Champion for the Shadow?

With RJ being into balance and this being the Last Battle, be interesting to see if Randridin - yes you heard it first here folks :)

does a Jim Henson's Dark Crystal type of thing.

I dont usually get misty-eyed with WoT, but Rand's reunion with his Dad just might do it.

I hope Perrin and Mat had a good chat as well, good to see those two catch up after 9 books?

The One-Eyed Fool wandering the Halls of Mourning - gee, i'm really thinking Olver is going to die

Mat is a Gateway from returning so I dont think I see the whole Band getting rolled over????

I could have sworn Rand put a Web over the Waygate at Camelyn and Cairhein just like Shadar Logoth

If so the Trollocs will die, but from memory of CoS not straight away.

Just so many things, if they decide to split AMOL into 2 parts - fine by me :)

 

Rand and Tam's reunion is a tearjerker or was for me anyway. You can't really help it after how things went in The Gather Storm. Perrin and Mat, well, I haven't laughed that hard in a while at the series. I agree about Olver. As for AMoL being two parts, I would almost prefer it, I think. I don't know if it could be finished sufficiently in one book. I just don't think that will happen. Everyone, besides Tuon, Egwene and perhaps Mat have had their plotlines developed as far as needed in my opinion. I think it is about time for Tarmon Gaidon to begin! :D

[bloodyflamingthisandthat]

Ok, I've gotta ask what was Leigh Butler's "It's getting all Barry White up in here but funny" moment? Any ideas?

[Terez]

Ok, I've gotta ask what was Leigh Butler's "It's getting all Barry White up in here but funny" moment? Any ideas?

Did you read the prologue?

[bloodyflamingthisandthat]

Ok, I've gotta ask what was Leigh Butler's "It's getting all Barry White up in here but funny" moment? Any ideas?

Did you read the prologue?

Yeah, I did. It was Arangar and Delana?

Ugh....

[Terez]

I agree. Leigh must have a bit of a twisted sense of humor.

[Kestrel]

[JenniferL]

No, they are not going to split AMoL. Let's stop that rumor now before everyone gets crazy. Thanks.

[Elend]

Indeed, let's remember that so far everything's been on schedule based on Brandon's predictions. He surely knows more than us and if he thinks it can be done in a book, I believe him.

[Kaznen]

I have a question,

 

Where did Nyn find a Saidin wielding crazy guy, after the taint there would be no more and during the taint the AM put them down as soon as they pop a stitch.