Discuss The Full Book

[The Fisher King]

Some AWESOME reviews,ummaries and sharing of spoilers and info in this thread and I have enjoyed and appreciated it all. Its also made me even MORE excited to buy the book, lol!

 

Quest: Do we know how much time went by for Moiraine in Finnland since she entered?

 

 

 

Fish

[Jeangray]

So, does anybody think that Aviendha's vision was more along the lines of a cautionary scenario that drew from information in her brain, rather than actual future? IMHO it is significant that she saw not a hint of any of this in the Rings, which do show potential futures.

 

Because, there are tons of oddities in it. Like, it seems that _all_ of the main characters including Avi herself must have died relatively young for it to come to pass. Ditto Tuon.

"Remnant of the remnant" prophecy seems to be wholly ignored - there are way too many Aiel just a generation after TG.

 

Also, how can people who can build circles up to the max of 72 be beaten by Seanchan damane who can't? This just doesn't make sense. Neither, frankly, do Seanchan advances with OP, unless one of the FS survived and set shop among them. I mean, extreme mental brainwashing and eradication of independent thinking in damane and creativity just don't compute.

It is equally suspicious why Seanchan would have quicker technological advancement than, say, Andor. Their stratified society is not very favorable for something like that.

 

In the end, I feel that there is a double caution here - Aiel can't remain what they are, but neither should the Seanchan be accepted into the alliance of Light as the happy slaveholders they are.

[MattTaz]

Do you remember when Sammael was killed, the Waygate at Shadar Logoth was open. Does this mean when Rand removed the Taint, The Waygates and Machin Shin (sp?) was

removed as well. Because moving a massive army through there would have attracted it for sure.

Also I'm sure Rand put a Trolloc killing web over Shadar Logoth. Didnt he do this with Caemlyn and Cairhein as well?

 

The streetfighting in Caemlyn looks like a job for The Legion of Superheroes.....the Dragon :)

 

Thanks to the above review as well.

 

Funny, I always look for the difficult answers, but Weiramon, Galad, Graendel and Mat physically losing an eye are the obvious ones :)

 

Mat giving up 'half the light' to save the world, may be that Moiraine is the 'dead and gone woman' Rand needs to win the LB or Mat

giving his eye meant that he lived and helped Rand save the world. If he died Rand would probably lose???

[OptimusPrime]

Rand goes to the borderlands and kills thousands of trollocs by himself while saving Iltuarde (spelling) in the process. He finally meets with the borderland monarchs and they ask him who some woman was in the Age of Legends as part of a prophecy to determine if he is really the Dragon Reborn. At the time of the meeting, he gets slapped by the monarchs. During the visit, they mention him not being able to hurt them because of the Guardian and he says it ONLY stops the One Power.

 

Hell yeah I cant WAIT for that bit!!! I cant get enough. Can he block someone from the Source with his will?

[Elend]

Rand goes to the borderlands and kills thousands of trollocs by himself while saving Iltuarde (spelling) in the process. He finally meets with the borderland monarchs and they ask him who some woman was in the Age of Legends as part of a prophecy to determine if he is really the Dragon Reborn. At the time of the meeting, he gets slapped by the monarchs. During the visit, they mention him not being able to hurt them because of the Guardian and he says it ONLY stops the One Power.

 

Hell yeah I cant WAIT for that bit!!! I cant get enough. Can he block someone from the Source with his will?

 

Me too. Love the implication that things like the Guardian can't contain him now.

[ShadowsFell]

Rand goes to the borderlands and kills thousands of trollocs by himself while saving Iltuarde (spelling) in the process. He finally meets with the borderland monarchs and they ask him who some woman was in the Age of Legends as part of a prophecy to determine if he is really the Dragon Reborn. At the time of the meeting, he gets slapped by the monarchs. During the visit, they mention him not being able to hurt them because of the Guardian and he says it ONLY stops the One Power.

 

Does this imply TP? Or because of what happened, he's something different/more?

[Elend]

Rand goes to the borderlands and kills thousands of trollocs by himself while saving Iltuarde (spelling) in the process. He finally meets with the borderland monarchs and they ask him who some woman was in the Age of Legends as part of a prophecy to determine if he is really the Dragon Reborn. At the time of the meeting, he gets slapped by the monarchs. During the visit, they mention him not being able to hurt them because of the Guardian and he says it ONLY stops the One Power.

 

Does this imply TP? Or because of what happened, he's something different/more?

 

Based on a few other posts in the thread I'd almost say that its a Light counterpart to the True Power or something unique to Rand's saidin channeling. The talk about how the taint in Rand is counterbalanced by something light, etc.

[sumquy]

i read somewhere that he is always connected to the source now. does the guardian even work to shield him now?

[Elend]

i read somewhere that he is always connected to the source now. does the guardian even work to shield him now?

 

Hmmm, I see. He has a deeper connection to saidin at a guess, so its not possible to shield him via Guardian or circle of 13 now? Luckers (I think?) mentioned that Siuan mentioned how she didn't think a full circle could hold him anymore, the perma-connection might be why.

[Crael123]

How is rand and mins relationship?

[bscuga]

I assume Rand's comment is based on the True Power and he does not have an ability with the One Power for the Guardian not to affect him. It was Cadsuane's POV and she thought his comment was interesting but did not elaborate on it in her thoughts.

 

Min and Rand's relationship is fine right now. Min was not really in the book other than a couple of scenes and she did some viewings and talked to Rand about Callandor, but there were no new insights regarding Callandor.

 

We do not know how long Moiraine was in the Tower from her point of view. We can certainly do the math on the time from an outside perspective.

 

I don't know how relevant the visions that Aviendha had are because I don't believe that is how the future will be played out. I think Aviendha will change it. I do believe that there are aspects of the visions that will come true. I think Rand wanted Egwene to have everyone meet him at the end of the book/beginning of the next book because he is going to try to get everyone to agree to a deal about not fighting each other after the Last Battle - which is something that Aviendha saw in her vision. Her vision did not see the Aiel agreeing to it though. I think that they will agree this time because of the visions.

[raydurz]

I'm wondering if Olver stays behind at the Tower of Ghenji, swaps places with Moiraine or something.

[WhiskyJack]

I'm wondering if Olver stays behind at the Tower of Ghenji, swaps places with Moiraine or something.

 

 

You mean Noel?

[raydurz]

I'm wondering if Olver stays behind at the Tower of Ghenji, swaps places with Moiraine or something.

 

 

You mean Noel?

 

No. Im wondering if he sneaks in afterward, since he knows how to get in.

[WhiskyJack]

I'm wondering if Olver stays behind at the Tower of Ghenji, swaps places with Moiraine or something.

 

 

You mean Noel?

 

No. Im wondering if he sneaks in afterward, since he knows how to get in.

 

 

In Tower of Ghenjei? Did you read this thread at all?

 

 

and NO. Tower of Ghenjei is 100s of leagues away from Camelyn. Too far for sneaking;)

[raydurz]

I'm wondering if Olver stays behind at the Tower of Ghenji, swaps places with Moiraine or something.

 

 

You mean Noel?

 

No. Im wondering if he sneaks in afterward, since he knows how to get in.

 

 

In Tower of Ghenjei? Did you read this thread at all?

 

 

and NO. Tower of Ghenjei is 100s of leagues away from Camelyn. Too far for sneaking;)

 

He's snuck into places where he shouldnt have before. I dont think its not just going to be Mat, Thom and Noel going there to Ghenji. In Ghenji, yes, but not to Ghenji. In TGS Matt mentions that Bayle knows where the tower is at, and thus he will show the way.. And do you think that Mat and co. are going to ride all the way to the tower from Camelyn? If its hundreds of leagues it will take weeks to ride there. No. I believe someone will weave a gateway to near the general area and Bayle, along with others, including Olver in my looney theory, will go with them and wait for them outside the Tower of Ghenji. Olver, who knows how to get in the tower (Birgitte told him how and he passed it onto Matt), will then sneak in after Matt.

[sumquy]

I'm wondering if Olver stays behind at the Tower of Ghenji, swaps places with Moiraine or something.

 

 

You mean Noel?

 

No. Im wondering if he sneaks in afterward, since he knows how to get in.

 

 

In Tower of Ghenjei? Did you read this thread at all?

 

 

and NO. Tower of Ghenjei is 100s of leagues away from Camelyn. Too far for sneaking;)

 

He's snuck into places where he shouldnt have before. I dont think its not just going to be Mat, Thom and Noel going there to Ghenji. In Ghenji, yes, but not to Ghenji. In TGS Matt mentions that Bayle knows where the tower is at, and thus he will show the way.. And do you think that Mat and co. are going to ride all the way to the tower from Camelyn? If its hundreds of leagues it will take weeks to ride there. No. I believe someone will weave a gateway to near the general area and Bayle, along with others, including Olver in my looney theory, will go with them and wait for them outside the Tower of Ghenji. Olver, who knows how to get in the tower (Birgitte told him how and he passed it onto Matt), will then sneak in after Matt.

 

at 20 pages this thread has gotten kind of long, but you should at least skim through it. otherwise you make yourself sound kind of silly.

[WhiskyJack]

I'm wondering if Olver stays behind at the Tower of Ghenji, swaps places with Moiraine or something.

 

 

You mean Noel?

 

No. Im wondering if he sneaks in afterward, since he knows how to get in.

 

 

In Tower of Ghenjei? Did you read this thread at all?

 

 

and NO. Tower of Ghenjei is 100s of leagues away from Camelyn. Too far for sneaking;)

 

He's snuck into places where he shouldnt have before. I dont think its not just going to be Mat, Thom and Noel going there to Ghenji. In Ghenji, yes, but not to Ghenji. In TGS Matt mentions that Bayle knows where the tower is at, and thus he will show the way.. And do you think that Mat and co. are going to ride all the way to the tower from Camelyn? If its hundreds of leagues it will take weeks to ride there. No. I believe someone will weave a gateway to near the general area and Bayle, along with others, including Olver in my looney theory, will go with them and wait for them outside the Tower of Ghenji. Olver, who knows how to get in the tower (Birgitte told him how and he passed it onto Matt), will then sneak in after Matt.

 

You do realize that this a TOM spoiler thread and people have actually read the book and they are discussing the actual book and not theory?

 

You are one step away from suspension.

[MattTaz]

Someone said that Carlinya dies?

Isn't she part of Min's vision of having Raven Tattoos?

Is this a mistake?

[Terez]

Perhaps it only meant she would be killed by the Shadow. Min can't always interpret her viewings, and that was one she had no clue on.

[Beren]

Back on topic -- were there any EPIC moments in ToM, aside from the (potentially epic) rescuing of Moiraine?

 

Yes, Perrin forging his hammer was pretty epic for me, especially after he named it. ;)

 

Also, first power forged weapon made in a very long time.

[WhiskyJack]

Back on topic -- were there any EPIC moments in ToM, aside from the (potentially epic) rescuing of Moiraine?

 

Yes, Perrin forging his hammer was pretty epic for me, especially after he named it. ;)

 

Also, first power forged weapon made in a very long time.

 

 

Dreamspike?

[nuclearunderpants]

Back on topic -- were there any EPIC moments in ToM, aside from the (potentially epic) rescuing of Moiraine?

 

Yes, Perrin forging his hammer was pretty epic for me, especially after he named it. ;)

 

Also, first power forged weapon made in a very long time.

I am very excited to see how Perrin's story line ends up. It sounds like he is finally coming into his own and starting to reach his potential.

[Beren]

Back on topic -- were there any EPIC moments in ToM, aside from the (potentially epic) rescuing of Moiraine?

 

Yes, Perrin forging his hammer was pretty epic for me, especially after he named it. ;)

 

Also, first power forged weapon made in a very long time.

 

 

Dreamspike?

 

If you are referring to the hammer name, no. One of my friends has my copy of the book and is reading it now, but the name is something like M'hallneir or something like that. Think Mjollnir if you know Norse mythology.

 

 

-------

 

 

On a separate note, lets talk again about Rand cleansing Saidin.

 

We know that when he cleansed Saidin, he channeled A LOT of Saidin into Shadar Logoth where it was attracted to the evil of Shadar Logoth. At that point, it continued pouring into Shadar Logoth on its own.

 

So, we have Fain heading to Shayol Gul to apparently kill Rand and/or the DO. He now embodies the evil of Shadar Logoth. So what happens when we channel the True Power with the Dark One's taint into Fain. Would it not then follow that the rest of the DO's taint would follow after it? So, theoretically, they could put the DO back into his prison or make a new prison after he has been released. "The rubble must be cleared" seems to fit with this. In which case, we get the DO's prison sealed as it was before the bore was drilled which fits in with how time works in the series.

 

Another interesting thing in this same area that I have to note is this. Fain has been cutting his fingers and bleeding all over the place recently. The Dragon's blood will be spilled at Shayol Gul. The Dark Prophecy in "The Great Hunt" talks about "Blood calls blood. Blood feeds blood. Blood is and blood was and blood ever shall be." Coincidence? I am thinking not.

[WhiskyJack]

Dreamspike is a ter'angreal that stops the formation of gateways or something like that. I was curious about the power based weapon you mentioned.