Three become one

[Shoe326]

As far as the three become one prophecy, we could be looking at a combination of some form of Min, Aviendha and Elayne. It is mentioned in the gathering storm referring to LT "If I live again, then she might as well!" Maybe somehow Ileyna is alive in the three loves of RA'T and somehow become combined through the shared bond. Half baked and not very fleshed out theory, and may already have been discussed and if so I apologize. I am new to these forums although a reader of The Wheel of Time books since 1990.

[Abutt]

As far as the three become one prophecy, we could be looking at a combination of some form of Min, Aviendha and Elayne. It is mentioned in the gathering storm referring to LT "If I live again, then she might as well!" Maybe somehow Ileyna is alive in the three loves of RA'T and somehow become combined through the shared bond. Half baked and not very fleshed out theory, and may already have been discussed and if so I apologize. I am new to these forums although a reader of The Wheel of Time books since 1990.

When is this prophecy linked to LTT saying "If I live again then she might as well!" Im certain they were mentioned at separate times.

[Majsju]

Souls can not be split, according to RJ.

[didymos]

It's quite possible Elayne is Ilyena, though there's not any real evidence beyond her name and strength in the Power (neither of which are themselves anything beyond rather weak evidence). It's just as possible Min or Aviendha are Ilyena reborn (you have to have the genetics for channeling in addition to a channeling soul, so Min's definitely in the running). Maybe the three of them are who the Dragon hooks up with sequentially in other Ages, but it's also just as possible that none of them are Ilyena reborn, and that she won't be reborn until the next iteration of the AoL comes around. Additionally, there's nothing that says she's always spun out with the Dragon soul, the way Birgitte and Gaidal always are (or always were). It's quite possible that even if she's reborn, she might end up with someone else, or no one else for that matter. We don't even know that the Lanfear soul is always associated with the Dragon soul. Maybe in the AoL that came before the last one, the Dragon was a lifelong bachelor with no lasting relationships or children, and the people who opened the bore just plain died and never had the chance to go to the Shadow. Point being, there's so little evidence about these things that just about anything you'd care to think up is about as plausible as anything else.

 

ETA: In fact, about the only person for which have any actual evidence of Dragon-linkage is Elan/Ishamael/Mordin.

[Cyf]

Do we have actual evidence? I just recall Ishy babbling constantly about how they've done it thousands of times before, but saw no evidence of this. Him saying so doesn't make it so, he was rather insane. I could be not recalling something, but really, I don't find Ishy's words to be evidence.

[didymos]

Do we have actual evidence? I just recall Ishy babbling constantly about how they've done it thousands of times before, but saw no evidence of this. Him saying so doesn't make it so, he was rather insane. I could be not recalling something, but really, I don't find Ishy's words to be evidence.

 

Yeah, it's not necessarily great evidence, but it's pretty much the only time in the text where it's stated that the Dragon is linked with a particular person. However, recall also that all the dismissals of his allegedly insane ramblings on the topic come from Forsaken POVs, and we know for a fact that they don't know as much as they think they do (not even close, in most instances). When you put that together with his Nae'blis status, book signing statements about him being the most trusted of all the Forsaken, and his obviously being much more in the know than anyone else on Team Shadow (going by his own POVs), it's at least evidence that is not too bad, and maybe even qualifies as "pretty good". Yes, he's obviously not a picture of mental health, but crazy isn't always about being wildly delusional. But yes, it's definitely not at all confirmed. However, that was sort of my point: that's the best evidence we have for anybody being linked to the Dragon soul, and it's pretty iffy. The evidence for anyone else being linked incarnation-wise, Ilyena included, is just plain non-existent at this point.

[Abutt]

Do we have actual evidence? I just recall Ishy babbling constantly about how they've done it thousands of times before, but saw no evidence of this. Him saying so doesn't make it so, he was rather insane. I could be not recalling something, but really, I don't find Ishy's words to be evidence.

 

Yeah, it's not necessarily great evidence, but it's pretty much the only time in the text where it's stated that the Dragon is linked with a particular person. However, recall also that all the dismissals of his allegedly insane ramblings on the topic come from Forsaken POVs, and we know for a fact that they don't know as much as they think they do (not even close, in most instances). When you put that together with his Nae'blis status, book signing statements about him being the most trusted of all the Forsaken, and his obviously being much more in the know than anyone else on Team Shadow (going by his own POVs), it's at least evidence that is not too bad, and maybe even qualifies as "pretty good". Yes, he's obviously not a picture of mental health, but crazy isn't always about being wildly delusional. But yes, it's definitely not at all confirmed. However, that was sort of my point: that's the best evidence we have for anybody being linked to the Dragon soul, and it's pretty iffy. The evidence for anyone else being linked incarnation-wise, Ilyena included, is just plain non-existent at this point.

I think what Ishmael was rambling on before was The Dragon and The Dark One having this battle time and time again. Because remember, he called himself Bal'azoman which means the Dark One in the Trolloc Tongue, implying that he is the dark one... but he is not. So, thats not any evidence either of the dragon being linked to any one particular person... one thing I have to ask, and the answer to this question may be obvious and I somehow missed it..... Why do people seem to treat Ishamael as almost some immortal being?

[Cyf]

Boba Fett syndrome. He's dark and cool, so he has to be badass. :)

 

It's certainly true that he's probably the most dangerous adversary Rand has, because he's evil and fairly smart. But people push it way too far.

[Puck]

I would think that means Mat Perrin and Rand form into one power or something to seal the bore. All throughout the books they say that Mat and Perrin are drawn to Rand and that Rand needs them. So it could be that.

[Finnssss22]

Boba Fett syndrome. He's dark and cool, so he has to be badass. :)

 

It's certainly true that he's probably the most dangerous adversary Rand has, because he's evil and fairly smart. But people push it way too far.

 

 

No probably about it, he IS the most dangerous. The other Forsaken are all vying for what power they will hold after the DO achieves victory. He on the other hand is the only one, aside from Rand himself, that understands that the DO winning means a final ending and nothingness will ensue.

Unlike all the others, Ishamael did not turn to the shadow for power. He did so out of logic of all things, he believes the DO will eventually win so why fight it, he would rather just get it over with.

 

This is why I subscribe to the theory of using Fain to actually kill the DO and once Rand opens Ishy up to this possibility it will give him a way out of his logic, showing him it is possible to end the conflict the DO presents without ending everything.

 

Moridin will be the final third with Rand and LTT the other two parts.

Moridin is already halfway there anyway, linked to Rand as it is from when their balefire's crossed in SL at the end of aCoS.

[Pokeriser]

I actually always assumed that the 'Three Become One' was a reference to Mat, Perrin and Rand. They've been linked in a similar way to Rand and Moridin since the start of the series. In fact, when I read it, my first conclusion was that it was a reference to the three. Remember, the prophecies talk about Mat and Perrin as well as Rand, though I cant get the exact quote right now, it refers to Perrin's past as a blacksmith and calls him the "King of Wolves", and says something about Mat... "the lightning his eye", and "luck his blade" or something like that.

 

It sounds a lot less out there than Fain, Moridin and Rand. And Rand and Lews Therin are one person, they arent seperate AT ALL, "Lews Therin" (the voice in Rand's head) was a figment of Rands maddened imagination and created by his mind when he continued to deny that he and Lews Therin were the same person, and he used Lews Therin's memories, and his own ideas of the man, to create an alternate personality for him. We learn this in Veins of Gold, though I hear people continue to insist that Lews Therin was real...

[dovien]

I hear people continue to insist that Lews Therin was real...

I would not mind you in my thread if you were not so clearly mad.

[Mulk]

I would not mind you in my thread if you were not so clearly mad.

 

One internet for you, sir. Well played. :)

[Incom]

There's a lot of trios.

 

Rand + Mat + Perrin

Elayne + Min + Avi

Callandor

Saidin/Saidar/TP (-ish)

Rand + Moridin/TDO + ...Fain?

 

Just off the top of my head.

[moratcorlm]

Rand's political alliance, the Seanchan Empire, and the free channelers.

[mb]

As far as the three become one prophecy, we could be looking at a combination of some form of Min, Aviendha and Elayne. It is mentioned in the gathering storm referring to LT "If I live again, then she might as well!" Maybe somehow Ileyna is alive in the three loves of RA'T and somehow become combined through the shared bond. Half baked and not very fleshed out theory, and may already have been discussed and if so I apologize. I am new to these forums although a reader of The Wheel of Time books since 1990.

You seem to forgot the first part of the Prophecy; he holding a blade of light.

 

My guess has been that the blade of light is Callandor and that the three become one is he doing a channeling circle with 2 women; maybe the 2 being his 2 channeling lovers, yet the 2 could be any women.

 

 

About Ilyena being his 3 loves, that has been speculated a number of times. Like another told; Robert Jordan told that souls cannot be split.

There are these possibilities about her rebirth::

-She being 1 of the 3.

-She being another woman character.

-She being someone the books not yet shown.

-She not yet reborn.

-Her rebirth & death both occurring before this series began.

[Monte]

Wow, maybe I'm way off on this one, but I had thought that it meant that Rand, Lews Therin (and forgive me I haven't read Books 12 and 13 yet) the third entity in Rand's head. Unless the picture that is forming is Moridin from the balefire streams touching, in which case disregard that, but if it is a past life from BEFORE Lews Therin then it could have some credence. I'll read the next two books and post more intelligently, I could just be that far behind!

[moratcorlm]

This forum's open to spoilers up through the end of TGS unless the topic's marked otherwise, and TGS has a lot to bring to bear on certain interpretations of this prophecy, and on what's happening to Rand. Some big revelations do occur in TGS.

[fikkie77]

Wow, maybe I'm way off on this one, but I had thought that it meant that Rand, Lews Therin (and forgive me I haven't read Books 12 and 13 yet) the third entity in Rand's head. Unless the picture that is forming is Moridin from the balefire streams touching, in which case disregard that, but if it is a past life from BEFORE Lews Therin then it could have some credence. I'll read the next two books and post more intelligently, I could just be that far behind!

I think it has been quite obvious from before TGS that it is Moridin, because of the balefire streams crossing.

[Monte]

Right...not much of a spoiler, because you are correct, it was fairly obvious, but now it's crystal clear from your responses. I went back and reread, and yeah there is obviously no "other" third entity, I was just a little confused thinking maybe there was moridin AND another third entity. Seems clear now it's just a link between Rand and Moridin, on reinspection.

[OptimusPrime]

Three become one I think will be Narishma Alivia and Nynaeve. This is how I think it will play out. (Ive said this before several times)

 

Rand breaks the Seals and siezes the True Power, drawing as much as he can. This tempts the Dark One to try and possess him, and that would result in Randzamon, the Dark One existing in the Pattern in Rands place. Rands plan is to die while that struggle is going on, because it will weaken the Dark One. He plans to die by having Callandor deliver the new Sealing weave, so basically Rand has to draw as much of the Dark One as he can and then Sheathe The Sword That Is Not A Sword. Enter Callandor, used by Narishma Alivia and Nynaeve. Narishma to wield the blade, Alivia to guide the flows, and Nynaeve for her spirit and trustworthiness. In this scenario the tides are all reversed; the Light want Rand to die because the death siginifies their victory now, whereas the Shadow want Rand to live long enough to lose the battle of wills and then the Dark One will have won. During that battle of wills Rand will need to think of the people he is connected to; the Warder bonds Veins of Gold will bring him strength, and seeing Mat and Perrins faces with the swirling colors will give him determination.

 

So Rand is doing this. a PoV could show him losing control of himself, the Dark One in him channeling a True Power blade just as Rand channeled a saidin fire sword early on, and Narishma cant beat him because the Dark One can tap into Rands swordsmanship experience. Narishma cant land a blow.

 

And all of a sudden Rand feels something nip him in the back and the Dark One/True Power flinches. Fain, who can now sense the Dark Ones presence in Rand, proceeds to stab Randzamon in the back several times, weakening the Dark Ones control. Rand has a new surge of strength and holds his hands in the air, and with the booming voice of the Dark One he screams "NARISHMAAAAAAAAA!" and Narishma dives at him with Callandor extended before him, taking Fade blade wounds as he flies through the air, and drives Callandor through Rands heart-and also through Fain at the same time.

[Hopefire]

I think that the three becoming one means that Elayne, Aviendha and Min will get the same treatment that Slayer did, with the three of them keeping their souls apart, being able to shift between which person is active at any given time, but sharing the same body and to some extent the same awareness. Among other things, it helps provide a neat solution to the Rand/sharing issue (because it would be way, way more awkward if they shared a body and had different men... ) and it helps resolve how Min wouldn't be an old crone while Rand, Elayne and Aviendha still look like they're in their twenties.

[Gathering Storman Norman]

I'm with the whole circle needed to wield Callendor being the three/one prophecy.

[Ananta]

It's either the Callandor circle, or Rand, LTT and Moridin.

 

Wasn't there a "two become one" viewing by Min? And it was explained by LTT and Rand "merging" (although they were one and same from the beginning...)

 

So three become one could be simply 2 + 1 from Rand/LTT merging with Moridin.

[threadnecromancer]

Do we have actual evidence? I just recall Ishy babbling constantly about how they've done it thousands of times before, but saw no evidence of this. Him saying so doesn't make it so, he was rather insane. I could be not recalling something, but really, I don't find Ishy's words to be evidence.

 

Yeah, it's not necessarily great evidence, but it's pretty much the only time in the text where it's stated that the Dragon is linked with a particular person. However, recall also that all the dismissals of his allegedly insane ramblings on the topic come from Forsaken POVs, and we know for a fact that they don't know as much as they think they do (not even close, in most instances). When you put that together with his Nae'blis status, book signing statements about him being the most trusted of all the Forsaken, and his obviously being much more in the know than anyone else on Team Shadow (going by his own POVs), it's at least evidence that is not too bad, and maybe even qualifies as "pretty good". Yes, he's obviously not a picture of mental health, but crazy isn't always about being wildly delusional. But yes, it's definitely not at all confirmed. However, that was sort of my point: that's the best evidence we have for anybody being linked to the Dragon soul, and it's pretty iffy. The evidence for anyone else being linked incarnation-wise, Ilyena included, is just plain non-existent at this point.

I think what Ishmael was rambling on before was The Dragon and The Dark One having this battle time and time again. Because remember, he called himself Bal'azoman which means the Dark One in the Trolloc Tongue, implying that he is the dark one... but he is not. So, thats not any evidence either of the dragon being linked to any one particular person... one thing I have to ask, and the answer to this question may be obvious and I somehow missed it..... Why do people seem to treat Ishamael as almost some immortal being?

 

I thought that Bal'azoman just meant heart of the dark? I had thought that it referred to Ishamael and interpreters just got confused over the years as to just what it meant, I suppose the Trollocs may not know the difference though.