Super Spoiler PoV

[TreeJoe]

I had a mis-statement earlier in this regarding people being able to sense the true power...

 

I just wanted to add that I think someone might find a way with the one power to sense if the true power is being channeled. Much like the Aes Sedai who discovered a weave to detect men's channeling.

 

Bialio - He would've gotten the goosebumps when the channeling occurred, rather than just holding the source. As far as we know people can mask the ability, mask holding the source, and even invert weaves after they've been woven...but they can't channel hidden weaves in the first place.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Hey all.

 

About Graendal's survival being convinient I completely disagree.

 

She clearly states that the reason why she makes Delana use compulsion is that she wants to lay a false trail for Rand, which is why she asks Delana to give him some random instructions. She will not do this herself in case Rand will be able to see through her random instructions.

That logic doesn't hold water with me. What is Nyneave supposed be able to divine from her compulsion which prompts her to let Delana do it? Does she think that Nyneave could figure out her state of mind or her thoughts? Or are we supposed to believe that Graendal thinks that Rand through his memories of LTT can read Graendal like a book and that a false trail she laid would allow him somehow to figure out her plans?

 

She had already decided to abandon the place the moment Rand's messenger arrived. So what does it matter whether she herself adds random instructions to occupy Rand for a while or whether Delana does.

 

BS is too forceful about making us believe that Graendal's survival is realistic.

[TreeJoe]

 

That logic doesn't hold water with me. What is Nyneave supposed be able to divine from her compulsion which prompts her to let Delana do it? Does she think that Nyneave could figure out her state of mind or her thoughts? Or are we supposed to believe that Graendal thinks that Rand through his memories of LTT can read Graendal like a book and that a false trail she laid would allow him somehow to figure out her plans?

 

She had already decided to abandon the place the moment Rand's messenger arrived. So what does it matter whether she herself adds random instructions to occupy Rand for a while or whether Delana does.

 

BS is too forceful about making us believe that Graendal's survival is realistic.

 

In tEotW, Moiraine states that the Dark One's effect on Fain's mind may have left an imprint of his plans. Similar scenes have been throughout the book series.

 

I believe that someone who can "read" Compulsion can measure the intent of the person who put it there, or something similar. And, perhaps, the exact person who put it there when compared to a previous weave.

 

Graendel compelling Ramshalan would've been actual confirmation she was there when it was read (in her mind). She didn't risk confirming anything for Rand. It was a smart move.

 

Your haste in dismissing the chapter is making you blind to the possible reasons behind it?

[Carteeg_Struve]

That logic doesn't hold water with me. What is Nyneave supposed be able to divine from her compulsion which prompts her to let Delana do it? Does she think that Nyneave could figure out her state of mind or her thoughts? Or are we supposed to believe that Graendal thinks that Rand through his memories of LTT can read Graendal like a book and that a false trail she laid would allow him somehow to figure out her plans?

 

She had already decided to abandon the place the moment Rand's messenger arrived. So what does it matter whether she herself adds random instructions to occupy Rand for a while or whether Delana does.

 

BS is too forceful about making us believe that Graendal's survival is realistic.

 

I think it is a case that Graendal is extraordinarily cautious and is a master at laying misleading information down, even if she doesn't have a plan on where the misleading information should take her opponents. If it even just slows her enemies down by a half-step, she will do it.

 

As for what she thinks Nynaeve can pull from her compulsion, all she knows is that Rand and the others somehow found out where she was. From her viewpoint, they were able to get something from the boy left behind. Although she was consciously underestimating people from this Age, her gut instincts were telling her to be extremely careful. The truth is, we're not entirely sure what can be pulled from a Compulsion. Maybe it could be more than just the commands the victim is given. Graendal might be covering information we, Rand, and Nynaeve don't know can be pulled; yet Graendal, as an expert in the field from the AoL, knows it is possible. And if Rand and company got as far as they did in their investigations, she has to assume they can go much further... even if they actually didn't and don't know how (or are even able to).

 

If this is how Graendal operates, meaning 95% of the time getting somebody else to do what she would normally do, this shows exactly how much of a master craftsman she is. I now see why Moridin is treating her almost as his second. Heck, she was supposedly heavily involved with Rahvin's work in Fires of Heaven, and we rarely even saw her lift a finger. If Lanfear had this woman's skill and luck way back when, I think Rand would be dog-meat by now.

[bialio]

He would've gotten the goosebumps when the channeling occurred, rather than just holding the source. As far as we know people can mask the ability, mask holding the source, and even invert weaves after they've been woven...but they can't channel hidden weaves in the first place.

 

I'm not sure I buy this totally - men can't see the weaves, and can't feel the goosebumps when a masked woman is holding the source. We don't know for sure if a masked woman channeling would produce bumps or not. If the bumps are a product of the woman holding the source, then I would think not.

 

btl.

[Natural Born Killer]

I found it so absurdly convenient that after books and books and books another Forsaken aside from Ishamael was finally granted access to the TP (and actually wanted to use it...), which naturally has a secret weave that they can use to spy on people with, which she uses to find Rand and see he has the access key, which somehow after 12 books of Rand refusing to harm women she realizes means he's going to balefire her.

 

I think you're of on the wrong path there. Some thoughts:

 

1) That another Forsaken aside from Ishamael is grante access to the TP is a sentiment to Graendal being reward for good work, as she was in the prologue of TGS. Graendal is turning into one of the few successful forsaken Moridin/the dark one can count on. I don't think it is surprising at all that she's the one to get rewarded by being allowed to. Keep in mind, it's only a trickle of TP – not a no-limits kind of thing that Moridin has access too.

 

2) The “a secret weave that they can use to spy on people with” is hardly a secret. We have many times throughout the series been reminded of the dark ones use of birds, most often ravens, as his eyes throughout the world. As early as the second chapter of TeotW. “A vile bird, to be mistrusted in the best of times" as Moiraine put it. Or the “bonus prologue” called Ravens in the “From The Two Rivers: The Eye of the World”. To me this is just us finally getting more information about the workings of the powers of the dark one – more specifically the True Power of the dark one.

 

3) That she see him with the access key is not a “just random thing that helps her”, it's pretty much what saves her life. Seeing him with that, talking about Callandor and preparing something big is enough of conclusion that he's about to strike and that she is in danger. In-fact that's the thing makes her realize she's been played.

 

4) The fact that Graendal's first reaction to learning Rand knows of her place is weaving “a gateway to one of her most secure hiding places” proves how much any given female forsaken by now trust Rand's “weakness for women” for their protection. I'm not sure she knows of Semirhage's destruction – but non the less he's been taking the forsaken down one by one. It's not surprising that Graendal's reaction wasn't “but he would never hit a girl”...

[Random Man]

I don't find the scene hard to believe, either. When Graendal saw Rand had brought the access key and was able to use it, obviously he was about to do something that required a large amount of Power. His use of Ramshalan doesn't really make sense unless the man was used in the way Graendal figured out. If he's going to strike NB, why send the man in to essentially give her warning before striking? It doesn't make sense unless he was planning to use balefire. Plus, Rand kind of dithered there for a bit before acting, rambling on about Callandor and such, giving her time to escape. Too bad for him; if he hadn't telegraphed his punch, he'd have gotten a two-for-one.

 

EDIT: Also, even without the TP weave with the bird, I'm sure there would have been other ways for her to follow Ramshalan back. Make a gateway to the woods nearby or simply follow him and use an inverted weave to eavesdrop, for instance. That way she wouldn't even be in the palace to begin with, and Aran'gar would be toast anyway.

[sdelu]

I think you're of on the wrong path there. Some thoughts:

 

1) That another Forsaken aside from Ishamael is grante access to the TP is a sentiment to Graendal being reward for good work, as she was in the prologue of TGS. Graendal is turning into one of the few successful forsaken Moridin/the dark one can count on. I don't think it is surprising at all that she's the one to get rewarded by being allowed to. Keep in mind, it's only a trickle of TP – not a no-limits kind of thing that Moridin has access too.

 

Right. She's granted a trickle, just enough to enable her to use the weave that allows her to survive. If there had been a hint throughout the rest of the series that someone other than Moridin would be granted access to the TP it would not be so bad. Yes, they all used it in the AoL, but in this age, called the third age by some (;p), there has been no indication that anyone save Moridin would get it. Just because she gets a little praise doesn't mean she'd be given access to the TP... and why would she not hesitate to use it, after all the Forsaken went to such lengths to describe how awful it was that Moridin used it? Wasn't Demandred held in good standing at the end of LoC? I don't see him running around with the TP because he was doing good Forsakeny things. Blech.

 

2) The “a secret weave that they can use to spy on people with” is hardly a secret. We have many times throughout the series been reminded of the dark ones use of birds, most often ravens, as his eyes throughout the world. As early as the second chapter of TeotW. “A vile bird, to be mistrusted in the best of times" as Moiraine put it. Or the “bonus prologue” called Ravens in the “From The Two Rivers: The Eye of the World”. To me this is just us finally getting more information about the workings of the powers of the dark one – more specifically the True Power of the dark one.

 

Just because there is foreknowledge that something CAN be done doesn't mean the circumstances surrounding it finally happening aren't contrived. It's not the fact that there are secret weaves that jarred me, it was the fact that she had juuuust enough power to use the secret weave, and she attained that power at just the right time. And while it was never a secret that the birds could be used to spy on people, I was never under the impression that it was something to do with the TP. Maybe I'm just silly, but I always took it for granted that it was just one of those powers the Dark One had... which is what makes calling it a secret weave an easy explanation, I suppose.

 

3) That she see him with the access key is not a “just random thing that helps her”, it's pretty much what saves her life. Seeing him with that, talking about Callandor and preparing something big is enough of conclusion that he's about to strike and that she is in danger. In-fact that's the thing makes her realize she's been played.

 

4) The fact that Graendal's first reaction to learning Rand knows of her place is weaving “a gateway to one of her most secure hiding places” proves how much any given female forsaken by now trust Rand's “weakness for women” for their protection. I'm not sure she knows of Semirhage's destruction – but non the less he's been taking the forsaken down one by one. It's not surprising that Graendal's reaction wasn't “but he would never hit a girl”...

 

Except for the fact that Graendal thinks the following just pages earlier: "Would he attack? No, he wouldn't harm women. That particular failing was an important one."

 

I don't care that she sees the access key lit up and runs. That seems a natural enough reaction to me. But the fact that she thinks "It was nearly as bad as balefire." and suddenly realizes she's about to be balefired, after just calming herself with the thought that he wouldn't harm her feels forced. Obviously she's absurdly paranoid (I guess you'd have to be to survive around the Forsaken) but it still rankles me.

 

None of that seems convenient to you? Of course it can be explained, all the pieces exist somewhere in WoT lore, but it's the way they came together that smells of fish.

 

 

Oh, and for everyone claiming she "outsmarted" Rand, she definitely did not. You don't call it "outsmarting" someone if they try to kill you by burning your house down and you jump out the back window without them noticing. She got lucky, and is smart enough to realize the strong position she now finds herself in, but running away at the last second and just barely surviving has nothing to do with how smart she is. As for having other people make the weaves, that's just her paranoia paying off bigtime, not her outsmarting Rand.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Okay might be dense here but...

Isnt Shara in the east and it was during the day in Araf Doman so shouldn't it be later in the day in Shara but early in Seanchan???

[Sid]

Light! How clever he's become.

 

Really? A bonna fide Forsaken thinking "Light!" to themselves? Really? I seem to dimly remember a member of the Black Ajah thinking that to themselves, but Greandal?

Light's sake.

[Grig]

Yes, they all used it in the AoL, but in this age, called the third age by some (;p), there has been no indication that anyone save Moridin would get it.

 

It makes more sense that anyone the DO holds in high regards at the moment can use it than to arbitrarily limit it to Nae'blis only. Making it a tool only the "anointed one" could use never made sense to me (except as a tool to motivate the Chosen through their defining selfishness, I suppose).

[jemron]

Light! How clever he's become.

 

Really? A bonna fide Forsaken thinking "Light!" to themselves? Really? I seem to dimly remember a member of the Black Ajah thinking that to themselves, but Greandal?

Light's sake.

 

This was the only thing that stood out to me as strange in the whole prologue.

 

So, why not "Burn me!" or "The Great Lord take me!" or something?

[Azral]

I think it's just an error. Someone will probably point it out to him (harass him about it on tour) and it will be rectified in future editions. i hope

[yoniy0]

I actually liked the fact that she has access to the TP. Just when you think you've got everything figured out, it turns out you forgot something after all (at least, I did). That she has this one edge is a very nice surprise - I was very angry at myself for not considering that possibility earlier.

 

BTW I think it's weird that no one mentions the way in which Aran'gar met her end. Was it really that important that a man should Compel Ramshalan? I know why that was put in - we had to see some of that cleverness we've heard about, and what better way than having her lay careful plans that didn't even register with Rand - but why would Aran'gar agree to be part of the false trail Graendal laid without as much as an explanation? Had she not done so, there would be no reason for her to be left behind. Me, if Rand was to fail so spectacularly, I don't see why he deserves that redeeming measure.

 

In any case, I want it clear that I'm not criticizing Brandon. For all I know, RJ had left careful instructions on how that scene should go. I just find it somewhat lacking. Since early-bookism is a fairly acknowledged phenomenon (so invoking it should hopefully not offend anyone), let me just chalk this down to late-bookism.

 

EDIT:

Light! How clever he's become.

Nice catch. Me, 'darkness within' bothered me more.

[DottieGirl]

Light! How clever he's become.

 

Really? A bonna fide Forsaken thinking "Light!" to themselves? Really? I seem to dimly remember a member of the Black Ajah thinking that to themselves, but Greandal?

Light's sake.

I was also a tad surprised when she called the Great Lord the Dark One. Have any of the other FS, in their POVs, ever called Shai'tan the Dark One?

[Decius]

Maybe she's converting.

 

Now that WOULD be a shocker!

[MichaelJG]

Anyone else think we might end up with a Graendal-Avhienda showdown?

 

Graendal lost all of her power objects in the balefire. She also likes to hide out in abandoned places of power and historical significance. Why not Rhuidean?

 

It's places of power and beauty. Rhuidean is far from abandoned and I'm not sure that it has much beauty.

 

My question is where did Delana learn compulsion, as we know that Graendal did not teach it to her.

 

1. Does that mean she lost her pinky ring angreal she found at Sammi's pad?

2. Rhuidean--I've been thinking Demadread may have filled that vacuum when the Aiel all got up and left

3. Delana could have learned Compulsion from Verin

 

I think Delana might have been able to deduce a lot from that Blue Ajah weave that Moiraine used in NS.

[Swithin]

I've let my thoughts on this passage congeal for a couple of days, and I think I'll put them up.

 

First off, Graendal has been my favorite Forsaken for a very long time. I think it started with her nifty name, but she was always built up to be a bad-ass. Her POV in (IIRC) PoD sealed the deal for me; she's competent, paranoid, proactive, and ultimately invested only in her own survival and profit. She strikes me as the kind of character who would exist opulently on the periphery if she were the only game in town, but the existence of the other FS and the DO means she's (almost reluctantly) driven to compete. She's not a "True Believer", she's not an enforcer, she's a kingpin in an organization of kingpins, with a supreme and uncontestable Big Boss. She's irredeemably evil, of course, but if she thought it was possible that the DO could be totally sealed away, I've always thought she'd be the one to put the knife in his back.

 

So I think she's a great villain, and her 'death' in tGS stunned me. In a very good way, in fact. I liked it specifically because she had all these potential fireworks down the line; not in the sense that future writing would elaborate on that potential, but because it was already well established. It made the death pay off double: an awesome scene for Rand which raised the stakes, and a surprise death for a character whose future plot-line has basically already matured in its build-up.

 

I'm a little disappointed she survived, honestly. I can't fault Brandon's writing, and now that she is alive I'm seriously looking forward to what he will do with her. After tGS, I trust Brandon's judgment completely. I just hope the future pay-off is bigger than the one that got taken away.

 

That said, if any Forsaken is a survivor, it's Graendal. I find the passage believable; her immediate concern for her own safety is entirely consistent with her character, as is her sacrifice of Balth and Delana. That said, now that she's cheated a big boomy death, my hope is that Graendal lives through TG. Brandon and RJ have both said that not all threads will be neatly tied up. I think there's an expectation on the part of the audience that all evil-doers will get their just desserts and be righteously slaughtered or punished by the series's end. Just as in life, some criminals go free. It's usually the smart ones, barring that the lucky ones. Graendal is both.

 

My revised expectation (not a prediction, however,) is that Graendal will turn on the DO. She's not going to become a nicer person, ever, but she'll get her shot at running her own racket in a post-Bore Randland. After all, you always need at least one good villain running around. Then again, she might get a death scene to make Jimmy Cagney proud... I'll have to wait and see.

[mossman87]

I really disliked this whole sequence.

 

I found it so absurdly convenient that after books and books and books another Forsaken aside from Ishamael was finally granted access to the TP (and actually wanted to use it...), which naturally has a secret weave that they can use to spy on people with, which she uses to find Rand and see he has the access key, which somehow after 12 books of Rand refusing to harm women she realizes means he's going to balefire her.

 

Right.

 

Actually, the whole scene is really absurd. It reads more like fanfic than anything else (maybe because it sounds just like all the theories that people came up with last year), out to prove a point that Graendal really is a super-genius. I mean, we had 12 books to learn that firsthand, and we only get to see it after she was finally supposed to die? Pfah. I for one am really sick of these useless Forsaken staying alive.

 

So instead we get the death of a Forsaken that Rand didn't even know existed and who has already been killed and a black ajah member who has done a similar amount of nothing as the Forsaken.

 

I almost feel betrayed, in a way.

 

 

 

Hi! Maybe you missed all the references to rats, ravens, etc. having the eyes of the DO. Rats and Ravens are no different from any other bird or animal. And the True Power is the DO. Put these two together and....!

 

I hope this has helped you out.

[Random Man]

I think you're of on the wrong path there. Some thoughts:

 

1) That another Forsaken aside from Ishamael is grante access to the TP is a sentiment to Graendal being reward for good work, as she was in the prologue of TGS. Graendal is turning into one of the few successful forsaken Moridin/the dark one can count on. I don't think it is surprising at all that she's the one to get rewarded by being allowed to. Keep in mind, it's only a trickle of TP – not a no-limits kind of thing that Moridin has access too.

 

Right. She's granted a trickle, just enough to enable her to use the weave that allows her to survive. If there had been a hint throughout the rest of the series that someone other than Moridin would be granted access to the TP it would not be so bad. Yes, they all used it in the AoL, but in this age, called the third age by some (;p), there has been no indication that anyone save Moridin would get it. Just because she gets a little praise doesn't mean she'd be given access to the TP... and why would she not hesitate to use it, after all the Forsaken went to such lengths to describe how awful it was that Moridin used it? Wasn't Demandred held in good standing at the end of LoC? I don't see him running around with the TP because he was doing good Forsakeny things. Blech.

We don't have any idea whether Demandred was in good standing. All we got was the DO laughing his "head" off while Demandred asked him whether he's done well. And additionally, Moridin's return happened at that point, and it makes sense to withhold permission for a period of time to make sure everyone understood Moridin was Nae'blis. Then he gets the power to decide who gets to use TP. Graendal even though to herself that the use had come, in a way, from Moridin.

 

2) The “a secret weave that they can use to spy on people with” is hardly a secret. We have many times throughout the series been reminded of the dark ones use of birds, most often ravens, as his eyes throughout the world. As early as the second chapter of TeotW. “A vile bird, to be mistrusted in the best of times" as Moiraine put it. Or the “bonus prologue” called Ravens in the “From The Two Rivers: The Eye of the World”. To me this is just us finally getting more information about the workings of the powers of the dark one – more specifically the True Power of the dark one.

 

Just because there is foreknowledge that something CAN be done doesn't mean the circumstances surrounding it finally happening aren't contrived. It's not the fact that there are secret weaves that jarred me, it was the fact that she had juuuust enough power to use the secret weave, and she attained that power at just the right time. And while it was never a secret that the birds could be used to spy on people, I was never under the impression that it was something to do with the TP. Maybe I'm just silly, but I always took it for granted that it was just one of those powers the Dark One had... which is what makes calling it a secret weave an easy explanation, I suppose.

Yup, that's pretty much about it. Is it any surprise that one can use the TP to do something like control animals if it's well known that the DO uses certain animals as spies? Not exactly a secret weave, just something that hasn't been explained before.

 

3) That she see him with the access key is not a “just random thing that helps her”, it's pretty much what saves her life. Seeing him with that, talking about Callandor and preparing something big is enough of conclusion that he's about to strike and that she is in danger. In-fact that's the thing makes her realize she's been played.

 

4) The fact that Graendal's first reaction to learning Rand knows of her place is weaving “a gateway to one of her most secure hiding places” proves how much any given female forsaken by now trust Rand's “weakness for women” for their protection. I'm not sure she knows of Semirhage's destruction – but non the less he's been taking the forsaken down one by one. It's not surprising that Graendal's reaction wasn't “but he would never hit a girl”...

 

Except for the fact that Graendal thinks the following just pages earlier: "Would he attack? No, he wouldn't harm women. That particular failing was an important one."

 

I don't care that she sees the access key lit up and runs. That seems a natural enough reaction to me. But the fact that she thinks "It was nearly as bad as balefire." and suddenly realizes she's about to be balefired, after just calming herself with the thought that he wouldn't harm her feels forced. Obviously she's absurdly paranoid (I guess you'd have to be to survive around the Forsaken) but it still rankles me.

 

Seeing the access key lit up, as you pointed out, would provoke a natural reaction to run. The reason being that he's about to channel a lot of power -- a sudden realization she's about to be attacked. That's when Ramshalan's visit made sense to her. As I said earlier, you don't warn someone you're about to attack that you know where she is. That's military strategy 101 -- unless, as Rand did, you wanted proof she was dead. Of course it was easy enough for her to connect the dots.

 

None of that seems convenient to you? Of course it can be explained, all the pieces exist somewhere in WoT lore, but it's the way they came together that smells of fish.

Of course it's convenient. Nothing happens in literature that isn't convenient to the plot. Obviously the plot is written to allow Graendal to live. Sorry if you don't like the mechanism by which that was achieved. At least all of the pieces are easily explainable. We even had theories on this board saying that Graendal used a dupe to weave the Compulsion, and if she used a bird to spy on Rand instead of using an inverted eavesdropping weave instead...I mean, come on, of course she's going to follow Ramshalan one way or the other! It would be way out of place for her not to!

 

Oh, and for everyone claiming she "outsmarted" Rand, she definitely did not. You don't call it "outsmarting" someone if they try to kill you by burning your house down and you jump out the back window without them noticing. She got lucky, and is smart enough to realize the strong position she now finds herself in, but running away at the last second and just barely surviving has nothing to do with how smart she is. As for having other people make the weaves, that's just her paranoia paying off bigtime, not her outsmarting Rand.

Oh, I agree, she didn't outsmart him. She herself said she'd been played. Rand laid a trap and she just barely got out of it. The fact that she realized the truth in time to escape, though, does speak volumes of how smart she is. Sometimes it's smart to be paranoid. That and quickly throwing Aran'gar and Delana under the bus, which gave her the advantage of Rand thinking she was dead. She was also lucky. Had Rand not hesitated a bit as he had, she'd be dead regardless of how quickly she figured things out.

[mikael]

Graendals survival relied too much on a deus ex machina for me, to introduce the saving weave in the same chapter that its used in such detrimental fashion is.. not so good. They shouldve introduced the weave earlier and let the fact that she could channel the TP be a mystery up until now.

[Charlz Guybon]

Graendals survival relied too much on a deus ex machina for me, to introduce the saving weave in the same chapter that its used in such detrimental fashion is.. not so good. They shouldve introduced the weave earlier and let the fact that she could channel the TP be a mystery up until now.

We've known the Shadow can do that to animals since the first book, it doesn't count as an introduction.

 

Also, Moridin said in TGS that she would be rewarded for her "good" work.

[mikael]

Graendals survival relied too much on a deus ex machina for me, to introduce the saving weave in the same chapter that its used in such detrimental fashion is.. not so good. They shouldve introduced the weave earlier and let the fact that she could channel the TP be a mystery up until now.

We've known the Shadow can do that to animals since the first book, it doesn't count as an introduction.

 

Also, Moridin said in TGS that she would be rewarded for her "good" work.

 

Really? Where did it say that TP channelers could see through the eyes of animals? In fact, we've been told that it's possible to prevent the DO to retrive information from animals by killing them before they reach someone to report to. There's really no way I'll accept this as "good storytelling".

 

Anyway, I hope this means a bad guy will finally hurt someone that is important in some way.. Of course Rand has been hurt plenty, but I've never felt that someone really important has been in deep shit, no power and no way out you know? Like a truly horrible hopeless situation, where no pleading or reasoning is going to change the fact that someone dies. What Semirhage did came close, and if it was the DO that allowed Rand to reach the TP I think it was worth it to "ruin" the moment since it was such a good way to force Rand to corrupt himself. If that turns out to be another (albeit, more hinted at) dues ex machina I'll be very dissapointed.

[Luckers]

That seems to be because your looking for it not to be 'good storytelling'. That the Dark One had power over animals has been known for the first book, we simply did not think about the concept that that power could be expanded beyond what was known--and that it could be makes logical sense. The Myrdraal draw this ability from their connection to the Dark One. The Forsaken have a stronger connection to the Dark One. That they could both do things Myrdraal can, and that they could do more than Myrdraal, are reasonable progressions.

 

I for one welcome the Forsaken getting some badassery back. With the existence of Shaidar Haren, and the spreading of AoL knowledge through Asmo and Moggy, they lost a great deal of what made them unique. That they can pull stuff like this is great.

[Maji]

That seems to be because your looking for it not to be 'good storytelling'. That the Dark One had power over animals has been known for the first book, we simply did not think about the concept that that power could be expanded beyond what was known--and that it could be makes logical sense. The Myrdraal draw this ability from their connection to the Dark One. The Forsaken have a stronger connection to the Dark One. That they could both do things Myrdraal can, and that they could do more than Myrdraal, are reasonable progressions.

 

I for one welcome the Forsaken getting some badassery back. With the existence of Shaidar Haren, and the spreading of AoL knowledge through Asmo and Moggy, they lost a great deal of what made them unique. That they can pull stuff like this is great.

 

Amen, I like how this was explained, I was kinda curious how the DO was able to use rats and ravens as his eyes. I didn't think it was so much as "convenient" but a nice fact that was thrown in there because it was appropriate for the time.