Demandred- Old thread needs new eyes

[blackmore]

Alright. I know this is nothing new, but I heard a rumor that RJ flat out stated that the Mazrim Taim is not Demandred; is this valid??? If so, is anyone else wondering who, and when we'll find out? I'm new here, so I'm guessing this has been discussed to death, but did I miss something? I have been reading these books since I was sixteen; I'm in my 30's now... and while I have some theories of my own I"d love to hear others if it's not too annoying to pick up this old thread. I've read everything currently out, including the chap. 8 excerpt, so no worries about spoilage.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Alright. I know this is nothing new, but I heard a rumor that RJ flat out stated that the Mazrim Taim is not Demandred; is this valid??? If so, is anyone else wondering who, and when we'll find out? I'm new here, so I'm guessing this has been discussed to death, but did I miss something? I have been reading these books since I was sixteen; I'm in my 30's now... and while I have some theories of my own I"d love to hear others if it's not too annoying to pick up this old thread. I've read everything currently out, including the chap. 8 excerpt, so no worries about spoilage.

 

 

This has been said a million times, its annoying, but your new, so its all good :)

 

Demandred is not Taim.

 

"Rumor" is not the best to describe it. Its been stated a billion times.

 

We have not seen Demandred's alter-ego (if he has one) nor his position in the world as of CoT.

 

Dont mind answering these questions, but it gets annoying when a billion people ask the first question. Demandred=Taim. (im just kiddin around)

 

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

 

Go to this site to look at almost all RJ and Brandon quotes regarding the WoT. Most questions can be answered here. Its a great source. And it will save you embarassment of being laughed at for being ignorant. (I know, when i joined i was the same.)

 

Anyway, welcome to the forums, hope to see you some more! :D

 

Edit:

 

To give you an overview of the known (to me) theories:

 

Demandred = Shara, going to bring the Ayyad and Sharans to war.

 

Demandred = Prophet of Dragon. using Masema as proxy.

 

Demandred = King of Murandy

 

Demandred = Borderlands

 

Demandred = Black Tower (not Taim)

 

Demandred = a combination of some or all of the above.

 

Im afraid thats all the ones I can think of off the top of my head. If you want any in detail explainations, ask, and I will try, but others will certainly be able to answer more completely.

[The Desert Pea]

There's also the Demandred = Land of Madmen theory, although it's not very likely at all but would be awesome

[Owayn The Traveller]

Demandred = Geogre Constanza theory as well

[OptimusPrime]

I reckon Demandred has been in Saldaea taking advantage of Basheres absence, and that hes been working behind the scenes to get the Borderlanders confrontational, I think Demandred has been making them want to make demands of Rand regarding Taim. The Saldaeans hate him of course, I think the plan is for Demandred and Taim to instigate a fight between the Black Tower and the Borderlanders, two of the Lights strongest military assets. I think the plan would be for Taim and the Darkfriend Ashaman to gate out of that fight when the Ashaman seem to be winning, so as to make it a more even sided, Light vs Light only battle. Mesaanas got some involvement also I think with the 13 Aes Sedai, which I think are Black, although they could easily be under Moridins orders or part of some private circle Demandreds got tucked up his sleeve.

[haloun]

my money is on shara since he has recently stated that he FINALLY has solidified his rule. and the last we saw of shara was that they were in chaos because their rulers both "died" at the same time.

[Tenesmus]

Shara is likely, but I got a sneaky feeling he might be in Rhuidean; with a Sharan Army...

[OptimusPrime]

I think hes been in Saldaea taking advantage of Basheres absence and has been fueling the Borderlanders hatred of Taim, and is working with Taim to start a fight between the Borderlanders and the Black Tower over it.

[Khan]

Calling it now, Olver is Demandred.

[Keiling]

Khan - Thank you, I totaly agree

[Suttree]

Shara is likely, but I got a sneaky feeling he might be in Rhuidean; with a Sharan Army...

 

The only people in Rhuidean are the Aiel that have been repopulating the city after Rand's battle with Asmodean returned water to the area.

[Suttree]

Shara is likely, but I got a sneaky feeling he might be in Rhuidean; with a Sharan Army...

 

The only people in Rhuidean are the Aiel that have been repopulating the city after Rand's battle with Asmodean returned water to the area.

[scraps18]

I always always always thought that Demandred was Taim from the beginning but when RJ said "no," I forgot about it for years until I read one of Leigh Butler's read-throughs the other day (WH or PoD?). Demandred was in a sit-down with Mesaana, Graendal, Cydane, and Moridin I think.... It was from Graendal's POV. Demandred states that he finally mobilized his army blah blah blah.... it made think that he is in the Black Tower in some capacity and that he is using Taim and the Ashy-men were his army. I mean, obviously Taim is a DF, but who is he getting instruction from? Gotta be either Demandred or Moridin and that's 50/50 either way. Admittedly, the final scene in KoD (with the black and red motif) reeks of Moridin. But I remember EVERYONE assuming Demandred = Taim during LoC. I mean everyone. But RJ says no.

 

My take: no way Taim is rolling along by himself without instruction on his own. And I think RJ is blowing false smoke with the color patterns in the Black Tower. Too simple, too easy. So while I think that while I (certainly) have to take RJ at his word, Taim is taking instruction from Demandred, therefore, in a sense, Taim = Demandred! By proxy. Maybe.

 

BTW I'm probably wrong, this was too convoluted, and I read too much into everything.

 

scraps18

[Barid Bel Medar]

I always always always thought that Demandred was Taim from the beginning but when RJ said "no," I forgot about it for years until I read one of Leigh Butler's read-throughs the other day (WH or PoD?). Demandred was in a sit-down with Mesaana, Graendal, Cydane, and Moridin I think.... It was from Graendal's POV. Demandred states that he finally mobilized his army blah blah blah.... it made think that he is in the Black Tower in some capacity and that he is using Taim and the Ashy-men were his army. I mean, obviously Taim is a DF, but who is he getting instruction from? Gotta be either Demandred or Moridin and that's 50/50 either way. Admittedly, the final scene in KoD (with the black and red motif) reeks of Moridin. But I remember EVERYONE assuming Demandred = Taim during LoC. I mean everyone. But RJ says no.

 

My take: no way Taim is rolling along by himself without instruction on his own. And I think RJ is blowing false smoke with the color patterns in the Black Tower. Too simple, too easy. So while I think that while I (certainly) have to take RJ at his word, Taim is taking instruction from Demandred, therefore, in a sense, Taim = Demandred! By proxy. Maybe.

 

BTW I'm probably wrong, this was too convoluted, and I read too much into everything.

 

scraps18

 

Nar, it does sound likely. Not convoluted at all compared to some other theories. And that God you take RJ at his word. Theres altogether too many people popping up saying "RJ lied" and other nonsense. He doesnt need to lie. If he didnt want to answer the question one way or another, it was RAFO. Thats the answer to most of the questions. Why would he lie for a few in particular.

 

Anyway, thats my rant. I am thinking Demandred has something to do with the Asha'man. I also think he is Travelling round alot doing more than one thing. Sowing seeds of Chaos.

[scraps18]

I always always always thought that Demandred was Taim from the beginning but when RJ said "no," I forgot about it for years until I read one of Leigh Butler's read-throughs the other day (WH or PoD?). Demandred was in a sit-down with Mesaana, Graendal, Cydane, and Moridin I think.... It was from Graendal's POV. Demandred states that he finally mobilized his army blah blah blah.... it made think that he is in the Black Tower in some capacity and that he is using Taim and the Ashy-men were his army. I mean, obviously Taim is a DF, but who is he getting instruction from? Gotta be either Demandred or Moridin and that's 50/50 either way. Admittedly, the final scene in KoD (with the black and red motif) reeks of Moridin. But I remember EVERYONE assuming Demandred = Taim during LoC. I mean everyone. But RJ says no.

 

My take: no way Taim is rolling along by himself without instruction on his own. And I think RJ is blowing false smoke with the color patterns in the Black Tower. Too simple, too easy. So while I think that while I (certainly) have to take RJ at his word, Taim is taking instruction from Demandred, therefore, in a sense, Taim = Demandred! By proxy. Maybe.

 

BTW I'm probably wrong, this was too convoluted, and I read too much into everything.

 

scraps18

 

Nar, it does sound likely. Not convoluted at all compared to some other theories. And that God you take RJ at his word. Theres altogether too many people popping up saying "RJ lied" and other nonsense. He doesnt need to lie. If he didnt want to answer the question one way or another, it was RAFO. Thats the answer to most of the questions. Why would he lie for a few in particular.

 

Anyway, thats my rant. I am thinking Demandred has something to do with the Asha'man. I also think he is Travelling round alot doing more than one thing. Sowing seeds of Chaos.

It's funny I've been on this forum for years (in differents reincarnations) and I can't remember anyone calling out RJ for blowing smoke up our arses!

[Barid Bel Medar]

I always always always thought that Demandred was Taim from the beginning but when RJ said "no," I forgot about it for years until I read one of Leigh Butler's read-throughs the other day (WH or PoD?). Demandred was in a sit-down with Mesaana, Graendal, Cydane, and Moridin I think.... It was from Graendal's POV. Demandred states that he finally mobilized his army blah blah blah.... it made think that he is in the Black Tower in some capacity and that he is using Taim and the Ashy-men were his army. I mean, obviously Taim is a DF, but who is he getting instruction from? Gotta be either Demandred or Moridin and that's 50/50 either way. Admittedly, the final scene in KoD (with the black and red motif) reeks of Moridin. But I remember EVERYONE assuming Demandred = Taim during LoC. I mean everyone. But RJ says no.

 

My take: no way Taim is rolling along by himself without instruction on his own. And I think RJ is blowing false smoke with the color patterns in the Black Tower. Too simple, too easy. So while I think that while I (certainly) have to take RJ at his word, Taim is taking instruction from Demandred, therefore, in a sense, Taim = Demandred! By proxy. Maybe.

 

BTW I'm probably wrong, this was too convoluted, and I read too much into everything.

 

scraps18

 

Nar, it does sound likely. Not convoluted at all compared to some other theories. And that God you take RJ at his word. Theres altogether too many people popping up saying "RJ lied" and other nonsense. He doesnt need to lie. If he didnt want to answer the question one way or another, it was RAFO. Thats the answer to most of the questions. Why would he lie for a few in particular.

 

Anyway, thats my rant. I am thinking Demandred has something to do with the Asha'man. I also think he is Travelling round alot doing more than one thing. Sowing seeds of Chaos.

It's funny I've been on this forum for years (in differents reincarnations) and I can't remember anyone calling out RJ for blowing smoke up our arses!

 

Only been popping up recently that I have seen. Only 2-3 times, but still.

[scraps18]

I always always always thought that Demandred was Taim from the beginning but when RJ said "no," I forgot about it for years until I read one of Leigh Butler's read-throughs the other day (WH or PoD?). Demandred was in a sit-down with Mesaana, Graendal, Cydane, and Moridin I think.... It was from Graendal's POV. Demandred states that he finally mobilized his army blah blah blah.... it made think that he is in the Black Tower in some capacity and that he is using Taim and the Ashy-men were his army. I mean, obviously Taim is a DF, but who is he getting instruction from? Gotta be either Demandred or Moridin and that's 50/50 either way. Admittedly, the final scene in KoD (with the black and red motif) reeks of Moridin. But I remember EVERYONE assuming Demandred = Taim during LoC. I mean everyone. But RJ says no.

 

My take: no way Taim is rolling along by himself without instruction on his own. And I think RJ is blowing false smoke with the color patterns in the Black Tower. Too simple, too easy. So while I think that while I (certainly) have to take RJ at his word, Taim is taking instruction from Demandred, therefore, in a sense, Taim = Demandred! By proxy. Maybe.

 

BTW I'm probably wrong, this was too convoluted, and I read too much into everything.

 

scraps18

 

Nar, it does sound likely. Not convoluted at all compared to some other theories. And that God you take RJ at his word. Theres altogether too many people popping up saying "RJ lied" and other nonsense. He doesnt need to lie. If he didnt want to answer the question one way or another, it was RAFO. Thats the answer to most of the questions. Why would he lie for a few in particular.

 

Anyway, thats my rant. I am thinking Demandred has something to do with the Asha'man. I also think he is Travelling round alot doing more than one thing. Sowing seeds of Chaos.

It's funny I've been on this forum for years (in differents reincarnations) and I can't remember anyone calling out RJ for blowing smoke up our arses!

 

Only been popping up recently that I have seen. Only 2-3 times, but still.

Not that I care... I actually love it. Read The Murder of Roger Ackroyd by Agatha Christie. Now THAT's blowing smoke!

[Charlz Guybon]

In my opinion he's the King of Murandy or controlling him and also the one giving Taim his orders...or at least was until Moridin took control. Though I'm sure Demandred still maintains significant influence in the BT.

[NetSlider]

Ok, i have to say something about this whole demandred business. When time comes to reveal himself, he better be stepping out from some crazy place (Bella's a@@ not excluded) because all this hype about him is kind of crazy now. i feel that at this point no matter where he is it won't be good enough unless it's like really, REALLY CRAZY (once again, Bella's a@@ not excluded)

[Eht Slat Meit]

Ok, i have to say something about this whole demandred business. When time comes to reveal himself, he better be stepping out from some crazy place (Bella's a@@ not excluded) because all this hype about him is kind of crazy now. i feel that at this point no matter where he is it won't be good enough unless it's like really, REALLY CRAZY (once again, Bella's a@@ not excluded)

 

I think it matters not so much where he IS, but where he's BEEN. The man's a general, a master of marshaling forces and secondary only to LTT in skill at that. Hopefully, when his time comes, we'll get a bit of a monologue on exactly what he's been up to rather than having to piece it together from where he's at. Myself, I have a feeling that there's a bit of truth to many of the theories floating around about him, with that truth resting in his actions rather than his identity.

[Ashaman Kovan]

To give you an overview of the known (to me) theories:

 

Demandred = Shara, going to bring the Ayyad and Sharans to war.

 

Demandred = Prophet of Dragon. using Masema as proxy.

 

Demandred = King of Murandy

 

Demandred = Borderlands

 

Demandred = Black Tower (not Taim)

 

Demandred = a combination of some or all of the above.

 

Also, Demandred = Marshaling up all the Shadow Spawn.

[deathgate]

I think hes been in Saldaea taking advantage of Basheres absence and has been fueling the Borderlanders hatred of Taim, and is working with Taim to start a fight between the Borderlanders and the Black Tower over it.

 

Sorry Drekka but with Lan going through Saldea early in his march to Tarwin's Gap I don't think Lan vs Demandred is in the cards so early. My guess is he's one of the influential military leaders with the borderland rulers because what they are doing is so against normal borderland action that someone must be "persuading" them and that could be the army he's talking about.

[OptimusPrime]

I think hes been in Saldaea taking advantage of Basheres absence and has been fueling the Borderlanders hatred of Taim, and is working with Taim to start a fight between the Borderlanders and the Black Tower over it.

 

Sorry Drekka but with Lan going through Saldea early in his march to Tarwin's Gap I don't think Lan vs Demandred is in the cards so early. My guess is he's one of the influential military leaders with the borderland rulers because what they are doing is so against normal borderland action that someone must be "persuading" them and that could be the army he's talking about.

 

Lol, I dont know where you got Lan vs Demandred from but it certainly wasnt one of my posts. You disagree with what I say for reasons that pretty much are covered by what I said. Obviously that doesnt make me right or you wrong, I just find it a bit odd. I said Demandred is using Basheres absence to influence the Borderlanders via Saldaea, possibly having usurped someones identity from the Saldaean militia, and he could be using that and the Saldaean national hatred of Taim to get the other Borderlanders with him and send the BT and Saldaea against each other... and your disagreement is "No, because what the Borderlanders are doing means they must be being persuaded." Erm, thats exactly what I said, I just went into detail about how I think it might have actually happened.

[Alanna]

First of all, blackmore, thank you for making this topic, because I've never really discussed Demandred before and recently had been wanting to know what other people thought...except the other main topic about Demandred has gotten really long and frankly I don't have the time to read it. So, also thanks to Barid for the quick recap.

 

I like the idea of Demandred as the King of Murandy, simply because he's kind of been mentioned a lot, and yet he's one of the few rulers we haven't seen yet. Wasn't the Band tied up with him a bit?

 

However, I still find the Black Tower theory more likely. The main thing that gets me was the comment, in one of the Forsaken meetings, about how "Demandred and Taim" were supposed to be keeping an eye on Rand. Not only does that imply that they're kind of in the same place, but it implies that, you know, Demandred actually has to be in a position to keep an eye on Rand, and the King of Murandy doesn't really fit the bill there. Neither do a lot of of the other theories, actually. Obviously he can Travel, but it seemed like they were saying that what Demandred is doing/where he is gives him a position to keep an eye on Rand, as opposed to him doing one thing and also randomly being assigned to peek in on Rand every once and a while.

[Eht Slat Meit]

I like the idea of Demandred as the King of Murandy, simply because he's kind of been mentioned a lot, and yet he's one of the few rulers we haven't seen yet. Wasn't the Band tied up with him a bit?

 

As I recall, they did some mercenary work for Murandy, and their actions were the inspiration for Elayne using the Borderlanders as a political device to show her influence.