The Seven Striped-Lass

[wvlr2]

Mat judgment right on the money - in Mat's terms that is. When and if he finds out about Verin being black I can see already "What happened to my bloody luck?" freak out going on. - *sigh* Classic Mat

 

As far as Verin still living - can't really see that happening. If it does happen than I'll be upset as hell - CAN WE GET SOME DEAD PEOPLE TO STAY DEAD IN THIS FREAKING SERIES???!!!

In this series - NO! It will never happen!

 

You have the Dragon Reborn, Forsaken in all kinds of bodies. Heros of the Horn. Heros ripped from TaR, Balefire Reserections, Hindersnap. Hey that's an Idea maybe Rand can spend a night in Hindersnap, then he can die on Dragonmount everyday for the rest of eternaty and still be alive to fight the DO come bright & early the next day!

[NetSlider]

Mat judgment right on the money - in Mat's terms that is. When and if he finds out about Verin being black I can see already "What happened to my bloody luck?" freak out going on. - *sigh* Classic Mat

 

As far as Verin still living - can't really see that happening. If it does happen than I'll be upset as hell - CAN WE GET SOME DEAD PEOPLE TO STAY DEAD IN THIS FREAKING SERIES???!!!

In this series - NO! It will never happen!

 

You have the Dragon Reborn, Forsaken in all kinds of bodies. Heros of the Horn. Heros ripped from TaR, Balefire Reserections, Hindersnap. Hey that's an Idea maybe Rand can spend a night in Hindersnap, then he can die on Dragonmount everyday for the rest of eternaty and still be alive to fight the DO come bright & early the next day!

i think if Rand would be in Hinderstap he would either fix it with his presence or really mass it up (like zombies don't go to normal people during the day).

[unlabled]

Did anyone else here notice Thom & Mat talking about Verin.

********************************************

"Best that one stays away," Thom said. "I don't trust her. There's something off about that one."

 

"She's Aes Sedai," Mat said. "There's something off about them all—like dice where the pips don't add up—but for an Aes Sedai, I kind of like Verin. And I'm a good judge of character, you know that."

 

Thom raised an eyebrow. Mat scowled back.

********************************************

 

Is that a hint that something more might be coming out about Verin?

 

Which one do you think is the better judge of character - Thom or Mat? Me - I say Thom.

 

On a side note- Egwene only did a mirror test of Verin to see if she was dead, right? So is it possable to fake that with the Power?

 

I would be very suprised if verin was still alive, but her comments in tGS were very strange and these comments from Thom in this chapter seem very ominous.

 

Maybe that is why she did not keep Thomas with her - is she supposidly dies & he did not go all death rage then it would have been a clue that she was not really dead.

 

 

What do you think?

 

I don't think she's alive but I think she's going to be resurrected. The way she talked was strange and seemed to indicate that she thought she was going to come back even though she poisoned herself.

[Gor]

I don't think she's alive but I think she's going to be resurrected. The way she talked was strange and seemed to indicate that she thought she was going to come back even though she poisoned herself.

I am by no means familiar with the exact timelines of everything but I definitely did get the sense that Verin visited Egwene well before those 30 days had passed in my 2 read-throughs of tGS. I don't really have any evidence to back this up other than that I just assumed when Verin got to the tower she wasn't expecting to find Egwene a captive (or at least not in the dungeon any longer) nor the tower in the state it was...so she accelerated her plans and committed suicide so she could spill the beans on the BA. I do think the suicide was premeditaed, so don't get me wrong (why else have all of those letters ready and send Tomas off to die as well) but perhaps the timing of it was sooner than she had anticipated?

 

While I don't really want to see Verin resurrected, that happening would certainly lend some credence to the theory that she visited Egwene well before the 30 days were up for Mat. The idea being that if she somehow new that she was to be resurrected she would have planned on being able to carry out her other matters afterwards.

[wvlr2]

i think if Rand would be in Hinderstap he would either fix it with his presence or really mass it up (like zombies don't go to normal people during the day).

What would be the fun in that! I want him to go up against Ishy/Mordin.

 

Ishy "But I killed you yesterday!"

 

Rand "Well I'm back"

 

Ishy "Well I'll kill you again!"

 

Rand "Then I'll be back again tommorrow."

 

Ishy "But when the GoL brings me back - I get a new body. ^@&*$ it was the Pit when I was a goat."

 

Rand "I get to keep my body, and Nyvene will be able to heal my hand soon."

 

Ishy "&*%#$^& I've GOT to get a new sponsor!"

[SvetSedi]

What would be the fun in that! I want him to go up against Ishy/Mordin.

 

Ishy "But I killed you yesterday!"

 

Rand "Well I'm back"

 

Ishy "Well I'll kill you again!"

 

Rand "Then I'll be back again tommorrow."

 

Ishy "But when the GoL brings me back - I get a new body. ^@&*$ it was the Pit when I was a goat."

 

Rand "I get to keep my body, and Nyvene will be able to heal my hand soon."

 

Ishy "&*%#$^& I've GOT to get a new sponsor!"

 

That would be funny! I don't see this happening to Rand but I wonder . . . Wasn't it during this time that Verin was trying to find Mat? Of course I don't believe her garbage about his Tavern pull bringing them together. Remember, Ny said that she said she had a connection to those she "healed", well Verin certianly had a part in Healing Mat, so if she was trying to find him ..... maybe she stopped in Hindersnap. Maybe she is not hoping that the DO will bring her back and she did not have a weave on her to make her appear dead. Maybe she knows she will be back via Hindersnap - so she has no fear of taking poison.

 

It would be just like Verin - use the DOs tools against him.

[Sharaman]

What would be the fun in that! I want him to go up against Ishy/Mordin.

 

Ishy "But I killed you yesterday!"

 

Rand "Well I'm back"

 

Ishy "Well I'll kill you again!"

 

Rand "Then I'll be back again tommorrow."

 

Ishy "But when the GoL brings me back - I get a new body. ^@&*$ it was the Pit when I was a goat."

 

Rand "I get to keep my body, and Nyvene will be able to heal my hand soon."

 

Ishy "&*%#$^& I've GOT to get a new sponsor!"

 

That would be funny! I don't see this happening to Rand but I wonder . . . Wasn't it during this time that Verin was trying to find Mat? Of course I don't believe her garbage about his Tavern pull bringing them together. Remember, Ny said that she said she had a connection to those she "healed", well Verin certianly had a part in Healing Mat, so if she was trying to find him ..... maybe she stopped in Hindersnap. Maybe she is not hoping that the DO will bring her back and she did not have a weave on her to make her appear dead. Maybe she knows she will be back via Hindersnap - so she has no fear of taking poison.

 

It would be just like Verin - use the DOs tools against him.

 

Assuming Verin wasn't lying about the oath ("last hour") and her interpretation of it, she thought she was dying.

Whether GLoD would resurrect her seems doubtful - she's not a powerful channeler, she's not Chosen, and she's a traitor.

[GB]

but didnt egwene check her pulse as well and wouldnt she have to be in hinderstap physically so as to be to alive the next day?

[Sharaman]

but didnt egwene check her pulse as well and wouldnt she have to be in hinderstap physically so as to be to alive the next day?

Egwene thought Verin was dead and told Meidani to dispose of the body. If she's put herself in suspended animation, Meidani has probably cremated her alive!

About Hinderstap, everyone there wakes up in their own bed in the morning. The women Mat captured, tied up and took outside the village disappeared at sunrise, going back to their own beds. So it's possible that a Hinderstap-ite would just snap back into the village regardless of where they were at night. In any case, Verin didn't go into rabid, foaming assault mode so she's probably not "Hinderstapped". She wasn't even there IIRC.

[Duskfire]

Guys, Verin isn't coming back. The scene was far too emotional, far too heavy for Verin to come back. It would ruin the moment. What if Ingtar showed up in book 4 and said he had survived the Seanchan attack? It would have been the biggest letdown in history. Despite how awesome Ingtar was (and Verin) when you have a powerful death, bringing someone back from that is the worst thing a writer could possibly do. And I cna guarantee if Verin did come back the majority of us would feel letdown, despite how cool the idea is now. She went out with a bang; she shouldnt come back. That was her swan song, and what a swan song it was. Instead of having her come back, just have those notes she distributed have far reaching effects. Thats close enough, and worthy of her sacrifise.

 

Besides which, could the DO even ressurect her if he wanted? No one other then the Chosen have managed to do so; I wouldnt be surprised if the Chosen mark they recieve allows the DO to do his body swap thing, but otherwise he cant just do it.

[Deadsy]

Guys, Verin isn't coming back.

 

One thing I hate (and somehow love at the same time) about this series, is that the fans can't ever take anything at face value.

 

"Such and such acted sort of weird for a second there. She must be Black Ajah!"

 

"Egwene only tested her breathing for 10 seconds. What if she was holding her breath!?"

 

"Thom's mustache twitched the last time Olver spoke to him. What if he's an ogier in disguise?"

 

 

 

While we're at it, when do you think Ingtar will show up? He was a darkfriend too. In fact, what if the series went on for 20 more books because everyone gets resurrected over and over again?

[mossman87]

Guys, Verin isn't coming back.

 

One thing I hate (and somehow love at the same time) about this series, is that the fans can't ever take anything at face value.

 

"Such and such acted sort of weird for a second there. She must be Black Ajah!"

 

"Egwene only tested her breathing for 10 seconds. What if she was holding her breath!?"

 

"Thom's mustache twitched the last time Olver spoke to him. What if he's an ogier in disguise?"

 

 

"No way is Graendal alive, the whole fortress was balefired and the compulsion went away!"

 

Am I doing it right?

 

 

I do agree with you to a point though.

[Shard]

I think people would have less stressed out reactions to their wild theories sinking if they would at least accept that they could be wrong and the answer is just as simple as a cigar being a cigar. Time and again I have seen this kind of crazy theory talk lead to people declaring the author/writers were hacks, lazy, stupid, etc. It's not just the WoT fandom that does this, I've seen it in several fandoms, especially ones where the story isn't finished yet. It seems like it's more about how they WANT the story to unfold rather then how they think the Author is going to make it unfold.

[NetSlider]

Guys, Verin isn't coming back.

 

One thing I hate (and somehow love at the same time) about this series, is that the fans can't ever take anything at face value.

 

"Such and such acted sort of weird for a second there. She must be Black Ajah!"

 

"Egwene only tested her breathing for 10 seconds. What if she was holding her breath!?"

 

"Thom's mustache twitched the last time Olver spoke to him. What if he's an ogier in disguise?"

 

 

"No way is Graendal alive, the whole fortress was balefired and the compulsion went away!"

 

Am I doing it right?

 

 

I do agree with you to a point though.

I actually was sold that she was dead. To tell you the truth, I think the story arc would be better if she was dead (after all, Rand's plan was pretty good). Maybe I'm just tired to see him win accidentally or heads one. At least for once can there be a plan that that man makes and it works - just once?

[mossman87]

I think people would have less stressed out reactions to their wild theories sinking if they would at least accept that they could be wrong and the answer is just as simple as a cigar being a cigar. Time and again I have seen this kind of crazy theory talk lead to people declaring the author/writers were hacks, lazy, stupid, etc. It's not just the WoT fandom that does this, I've seen it in several fandoms, especially ones where the story isn't finished yet. It seems like it's more about how they WANT the story to unfold rather then how they think the Author is going to make it unfold.

 

The one thing that drives me nuts is when people theorize something, then reference another theory as fact (usually their own theories) as support for their new theory, without even acknowledging it. It really misleads new readers.

[wvlr2]

Assuming Verin wasn't lying about the oath ("last hour") and her interpretation of it, she thought she was dying.

Whether GLoD would resurrect her seems doubtful - she's not a powerful channeler, she's not Chosen, and she's a traitor.

 

Interesting.

 

1. Since Verin is no longer bound by the Oath Rod - There is no reason to assume that she is not lying.

 

2. In taking poison she would die within 1 hour, thus meeting that requirement.

 

3. She made no guarentee that she would not come back.

 

4. The DO does not have to "Resurect" her, she might be Reserected "in effect" by Hindersnap.

 

5. I don't think that it was dark yet so she did not have to go into Hindersnap "Crazy" mode.

 

 

Not that I'm saying it is at all likely. I doubt that she will be back. I was just looking for alternatives for Rand Dying & yet lives. That is an alternative to the Body Swap Theory (that I hate) which I believe will happen.

 

But since Verin was brought up - no harm in exploring that angle as well.

[Sharaman]

Assuming Verin wasn't lying about the oath ("last hour") and her interpretation of it, she thought she was dying.

Whether GLoD would resurrect her seems doubtful - she's not a powerful channeler, she's not Chosen, and she's a traitor.

 

Interesting.

 

1. Since Verin is no longer bound by the Oath Rod - There is no reason to assume that she is not lying.

 

2. In taking poison she would die within 1 hour, thus meeting that requirement.

 

3. She made no guarentee that she would not come back.

 

4. The DO does not have to "Resurect" her, she might be Reserected "in effect" by Hindersnap.

 

5. I don't think that it was dark yet so she did not have to go into Hindersnap "Crazy" mode.

 

 

Not that I'm saying it is at all likely. I doubt that she will be back. I was just looking for alternatives for Rand Dying & yet lives. That is an alternative to the Body Swap Theory (that I hate) which I believe will happen.

 

But since Verin was brought up - no harm in exploring that angle as well.

 

It was well after dark.

[wvlr2]

It was well after dark.

It was well after dark in TV, but was it well after dark in Hindersnap? Does the "crazies" hit you after dark where ever you are or is it based on Hindersnap time? We don't know of course. The mayor stated people left the town & were brought back the next day. I don't think he said how far away they got - but surely they did not have "Traveling". Also not sure if they went crazy outside of Hindersnap?

 

Feel free to add revelent quotes if you have the book handy - I don't.

[yoniy0]

Did anyone else here notice Thom & Mat talking about Verin.

I think Brandon/RJ was just having fun at Mat's expense. It WAS amusing, that's for sure.

 

I definitely did get the sense that Verin visited Egwene well before those 30 days had passed

Only Brandon said it was 30 days between the two events.

 

It was well after dark in TV, but was it well after dark in Hindersnap?

I think Hinderstap is no more that a two week's walk east of Tar Valon (and a ways south, but that makes no difference), judging from Rand and Mat's walk from SL to Caemlyn. I'll bet anything that the two share the same time zone.

[Gor]

I definitely did get the sense that Verin visited Egwene well before those 30 days had passed

Only Brandon said it was 30 days between the two events.

 

Gah, that makes no sense (not saying I'm doubting you, just that it makes no sense unless something gets corrected). Why is Mat saying things in chapter 8 about only having to wait a few more weeks before he didn't have to worry about the letter - meaning he has *at least* 20 days to wait until the 30 are up. *This on the same night the clouds break overhead.*

 

Rand's epiphany clearly happens *after* the meeting of Egwene and Verin since Egwene is already Amyrlin in the epilogue. So rough timeline as stated in the books makes no sense:

 

Time 30 days left to open letter - Verin meets with Mat

Time ~25 days left - Cloud breakage over Caemlyn during the night, Mat's escapades in Ch. 8.

Time 0 days left - Egwene meets with Verin, Verin dies.

Time X after 0 days left - Rand breaks the clouds over Dragonmount.

 

This would all just make so much more sense if Verin gatewayed Mat to Caemlyn, then had the meeting with Egwene 3 or so days later...and then 2 days later Rand has his epiphany (and the tGS epilogue scene takes place). This would line up with the clouds breaking over Caemlyn in chapter 8 of ToM quite nicely.

 

The only answers I am left with (barring a timeline change) is that maybe the caemlyn cloud break-up was just a temporary, "naturally" occuring one (it was at night so its not like the sun was shining through); or a mistake by Brandon. I really don't think Mat and Perrin have the light-bubble ability or whatever that Rand does, and it would be even less likely to manifest itself 25ish days *before* Rand's imo.

 

Someone clear this up for me. Please!

[Slick Mongoose]

Brandon could have been mistaken when he said 30 days.

[yoniy0]

There's some discussion of this issue a few pages back, I believe. If I understood Peter correctly, the error was somewhere in TGS, and Team Jordan decided corrections will have to be made in the text, though minor ones. Perhaps someone who was keeping tabs last week could explain it better? I'm not sure I got the whole story straight in my head.

[Aquarius]

There's some discussion of this issue a few pages back, I believe. If I understood Peter correctly, the error was somewhere in TGS, and Team Jordan decided corrections will have to be made in the text, though minor ones. Perhaps someone who was keeping tabs last week could explain it better? I'm not sure I got the whole story straight in my head.

Exactly. It was said that ToM Ch.8 was correct, but there was a mistake in Mat's timeline in tGS. This distubed some fans who got quite angry.

[Slick Mongoose]

OK, but is there an in-book reason why the timeline is messed up? Without relying on statements from team Jordan? A thousand apologies if i've missed it.

[Aquarius]

OK, but is there an in-book reason why the timeline is messed up? Without relying on statements from team Jordan? A thousand apologies if i've missed it.

Many on the forums believe that the rumors of the attack on Tar Valon has already reached Caemlyn in ch.8. That means since there has been something like ten days since meeting Verin, she was quite quick in doing all that she had to do: deliver those letters, looking for the OR, dying in Egwene's bed... then there's the attack, then the time for the rumors to reach Caemlyn.