The Davram Bashere darkfriend theory

[cancan4ever]

i hadnt read the newest replies yet! lol.....id say that pov is inconclusive. wouldnt rand have reacted differently like he did with weiramon etc? unless bashere is some higher level df and can somehow withstand some of the effects rand has....i am intrigued by the idea....id love to see the twist where one of rands closest inner circle is actually a DF (like cads bein BA lol tam was 13x13'd or something really crazy hahahahaha) butttttt.....i think we are at a point where most of the cards are on the table except for the ace in the hole and i dont think bashere would be the ace in the hole.

[FarShainMael]

With Weiramon, Rand was specifically looking for DFs. In Maradon, his first priority is to hold off the Shadowspawn attack. When he glares at Bashere, that is still what is uppermost in his mind. That may be the difference.

 

As for 'someone in Rand's inner circle' being a DF, have we yet seen what was meant by this:

 

Melaine and Amys dreamed of a man standing by your side with a dagger to your throat, but you did not see him.

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/loc/ch19.html

[Never]

FSM, I can't disprove this theory, and if it turns out to be true I will be very impressed, but I guess we'll just have to see. Impressive theory, but I remain unconvinced.

[Xcorpyo001]

With Weiramon, Rand was specifically looking for DFs. In Maradon, his first priority is to hold off the Shadowspawn attack. When he glares at Bashere, that is still what is uppermost in his mind. That may be the difference.

 

As for 'someone in Rand's inner circle' being a DF, have we yet seen what was meant by this:

 

Melaine and Amys dreamed of a man standing by your side with a dagger to your throat, but you did not see him.

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/loc/ch19.html

 

 

At Marador, every DF was almost blinded during the attack.

But maybe he's forced, without being marked as a DF. For example, if they kidnap/threaten his wife. Perrin was ready to make a deal with the DO to save Faile(totally not worth the cost), so maybe that can be the case with him. And he will receive DF status after he does his thing.

Maybe other characters have receive the same treatment. For example, maybe HS visited Cadsuane(or any other AS/WO/etc) and told her that is she helps him she will receive Chose status. If they don't mark them in any way, Zen Rand can't recognize/blind them.

[Luckers]

At Marador, every DF was almost blinded during the attack.

 

We don't know this for sure. There may well be ways to shield against or block Rand's effect. Cyndane certainly had no issues looking at him, though that may be a function of the dream.

[Xcorpyo001]

At Marador, every DF was almost blinded during the attack.

 

We don't know this for sure. There may well be ways to shield against or block Rand's effect. Cyndane certainly had no issues looking at him, though that may be a function of the dream.

 

I think that DF dude started screaming only after Rand brought down the hammer of light, using those awesome attacks. He wasn't blasting tens of thousands shadowspawn with holly saidin in his dream.

Without the attacks, he has to stare them in the eyes and recognize them(no blindness involved)

[FarShainMael]

Bump again, for damandred..

[damandred]

Hope bashere isn't a DF I LIKE him. And training an army for rand would seem counter productive. Gonna read through the whole thread though weigh the pros and cons. O yeah thanks far

[FarShainMael]

Enjoy!

 

Depends who the army's going to fight for, doesn't it..

[damandred]

Wow great theory. Not convinced though. It all seems pretty thin to me.no offence, but once an idea has planted people will somtimes read too much into things and see what they want to see. Not going to go over all the old points. Just a few observasions. First if DB was given some protection it would have to have been before VoG. Now unless the DO s omniscient, how would he know DB would need it and if he did know that rand was going to end up like why try and turn him with TP anyway? Second, if he was a DF why not give moridin the seal after what happened to Dobraine when his room was broken into, he could of said the same happened to him but this time the thieves were succesfull. No one would of been any the wiser. And his shock at maradon it must of seemed like certain death to him, the equivilent of rand pulling out a knife and cutting his own throat.(Which would shock even a great captain I guess)and lastly. Once DB had settled in his own mind rand was the DR its only natural he would serve him, he's a boardlander and they live to fight the shadow,he might of seen it as every boardlander duty or even mans duty to follow rand.O yeah I think one of the aiel clan cheifs may be a DF(no evidance just that there has been too few among the aiel). Anyway don't think DB is a DF but maybe that coz I don't want him to be

[FarShainMael]

No prob..

 

1: The DO is probably hedging Its bets. It may not be omniscient, but It will have memories of previous Turnings and encounters with the Dragonsoul. So far It has always come off worst.

 

2: I suspect that seal may be a fake.. If it isn't, it may have been given to Rand to lull any suspicions he may have.

 

3: Not sure about the shock thing. My gut feeling is that nothing can shock a Great Captain that much.

 

I do agree that there may be an Aiel DF.. but no idea who it could be. hope it's not Rhuarc!

 

What do you think Min's viewing about 'something dark' around Bashere may mean?

[damandred]

I think mins viewing means there are rough times ahead for DB,ie: He dies horribly,something happens to his wife and he flips out and commits evil in his greif, or he falls into forsaken/DF hands and is tortured. I think if he is a DF then they have some hold on him I just can't him being one for power/immortality.

[FarShainMael]

Good point about them having some kind of hold over him perhaps - Deira, or Faile, maybe?

[damandred]

I would say Deira would be most likely, as Faile would be used against Perrin. It would make brilliant reading if Deira was a DF and turned on him and he was forced to kill her. Now THAT would be dark.

[Lisa Campbell]

I would say Deira would be most likely, as Faile would be used against Perrin. It would make brilliant reading if Deira was a DF and turned on him and he was forced to kill her. Now THAT would be dark.

 

I've always thought Deira is a prime candidate too. She is described as looking predatory, Perrin felt like a mouse she was sizing up or something like that. And she could have set up the robbery scene and the note. Who better to forge Bashere's handwriting than his wife?

[FarShainMael]

Nice!!

[Suttree]

2: I suspect that seal may be a fake.. If it isn't, it may have been given to Rand to lull any suspicions he may have.

 

Taim's seal? Why would he freak out so hard when Rand went to break it if it was fake?

[WhiskyJack]

We can say with certainty that those still around Rand after that show in Tear are not DFs. So DB cannot be one. We have not seen Sorilea on screen but I am guessing she was in Tear too.

[FarShainMael]

2: I suspect that seal may be a fake.. If it isn't, it may have been given to Rand to lull any suspicions he may have.

 

Taim's seal? Why would he freak out so hard when Rand went to break it if it was fake?

 

Why indeed? After all, he didn't know what Rand did, that three of the seals had already broken. All he knows is, they're cuendillar, which is unbreakable. So what's he so worried about? Unless he either knows it's a fake and therefore will break; or he knows it's crumbling, in which case how does he know?

 

@WhiskyJack: this has been discussed upthread: see post #49 et seq.

 

Also:

While we're on the subject of DFs having a hold over Bashere, there's not just Deira and Faile. There's also his royal niece, Tenobia..

[damandred]

Tenobia is a bit of a unknown, we know she's got a temper, and Mins viewing "a bloody spear above her head but shinning in the light" (a bit obscure). I think she will have a part to play though, I'm thinking of Queen Ethenielle' musing in the black hills were she thinks Tenobia will only be happy with a husband who is some sort of superman. Something like one of the forsaken could take advantage of. Demandred perhaps?

[yoniy0]

Taim's seal? Why would he freak out so hard when Rand went to break it if it was fake?

Everyone freaked because Rand acted all-insane-y, and they thought he's gone 'round the bend there and then. Nothing specific to do with the Seal itself (except that breaking a Seal on the DO's prison isn't expected, it's another indication that he must be mad).

[Rose]

I feel that this theory pretty much died with TOM. Rand makes it quite clear that there will be no more darkfriends hiding among his followers. I don't see why Bashere would be an exception.

[damandred]

What if he's not a DF but has been put under compulsion or as what got said above he is forced to helping the DO by using his loved ones against him.

[Sharaman]

Is Rodel married? I can't remember. If not, he would fit Tenobia's requirements. Plus, she might be grateful.

[Rose]

Yes, he's married. He thinks about his wife quite a few times in his POVs, and even gets a package sent to her to open if he doesn't return, or something like that.