Rhuarc and Berelain: The dirty beggars!

[Owayn The Traveller]

Rhuarc is a darkfriend among the Aiel and this is how he got a handle on Berelain and made her appear to act in a more favourable fashion. Rhuarc being afraid she might get banished from her useful postion if she kept it up.

[The Fisher King]

I like that.

 

However...unless Berelain was a DF too, Im not sure the conneXtion. Rhuarc wouldn't need the added weight of being a DF to get a firm hold on The First. Hes already a bloody Aiel Clan Chief...Now, what would be really cool is if we found out that Rhuarc and The First of Mayene were DF Co-Conspirators working against The Dragon Reborn all this time.

 

I guess though that since we have had Berelain POV's we know that she in not a DF.

 

I can never remember - have we ever had a Rhuarc POV?

 

Fish

[farthammer]

No Rhuarc is just Rand 0.5 in the way the fade at whitebridge was Shaidar Haran 0.5.  Rhuarc is just a construct of the wise ones who can channel and entrusted to his wives in the form of warden bonds.  The ritual walk to Rhuidean for potential clan chiefs is actually a last resort measure to plant memories no would dare reveal, in order to essentially tag their souls like wild animals for identification purposes, so that they could go through the process of laying bonds to be used to control the clans through the chiefs.  The men who die within Rhuidean weren't so weak that they commited suicide, they were simply ones who would reveal the information, letting the WO's kill these candidates under good cover.  Tigraine  this all up in a spectacular way by laying a bond on Janduin and hijacking him.  He went to the Blight for the same reason Lan wanted to after he lost Moiraine's bond, except in Tigraine's case we're a little more confident he is dead.

 

The WO's suffered a second huge blow when they discovered that even though they got Rand to go, he can't be controlled by those bonds and they had major oh shit moment.

 

Or do you actually think Janduin, after seeing so many of his fellow Aiel die, watched his ancestors suffer beyond comprehension being slaughtered.  Watching them die and everything about the original Aiel identity with it.  But he killed himself over a girl he knew for three years?  For a reason that sounds more like Maiden and WO responsibility than we have seen any other clan chief becoming involved in?

 

 

Edit: Language

[Owayn The Traveller]

No Rhuarc and Berelain are both shadow infused double crossing low down dirty lying stuck in the muds!

[Elend]

Rhuarc is Chuck Norris Reborn.

[Nae Bliss]

Or maybe Chuck Norris is Rhuarc reborn. Take that society!

[Val Mickey]

I guess though that since we have had Berelain POV's we know that she in not a DF.

 

I can never remember - have we ever had a Rhuarc POV?

 

Fish

 

When was this? I must have slept through the Perrin plotline.

[ravenfier]

hey we cant keep citing the if weve had  X's POV they can't be a DF- that was turned on its head with Verin we did have her POV and well we all know what happened.

 

now going on this vein will Perrin bemarked with Fains sooty mark- with all the dark thinking that Perrin did while the rescue of Faile arc "I'd even make a deal with the DO to get her back, ect..."

[Owayn The Traveller]

In which I'll try to explain why I think this, that Berelain is a DF'er:

 

1. In Knife of Dreams, A Deal. Berelain is talking to Tuon Tylee and a darkfriend trait comes to the fore:

 

"My family is descended from Artur Paendrag Tanreall," Berelain replied, holding her head high. An eddy in the breeze brought a whiff of pride among the patience and perfume

 

Perrin smells pride off her because she is related to Hawkwing. A slightly odd thing to be proud of when you think of what Paendrag did or what happened because of him- hatred of the Aes Sedai and the war against them and the War of a Hundred Years in the wake of his death. Both lead to a lot of death. That's not what I really want to discuss but rather her pride. A lot of the darkfriends we have seen have had it in bucket loads. Suroth, Liandrin, Mellor, Fain and a lot of the black ajah. So pride and a rather high opinion of oneself tends to equal Darkfriend in the books.

 

 

2. Its not the only time in this chapter that she pricked my attention.

 

"The only claim I make is to Mayene," Berelain said proudly. "And that I will defend to my last breath."

 

Again Berelain and a connection to being prideful or over proud. Also what will she not do to ensure Mayene protection?

 

 

3. Some items I found on 13TH Depository that I like.

-Berelain herself delivered a letter from Lanfear to Rand in Tear. - Contact with a forsaken.

-her attempts to undermine Perrin, suggests she is under the influence of the Shadow. - more than just a flirt?

 

4. In Lord of Chaos. Specifically the Feast of Lights chapter Berelain receives some Aes Sedai visitors:

 

I [berelain] received no fewer than ten visits from various sisters, advising me on what I should do when he returned to the Tower with them

 

Now we know that there was some black ajah in Elaida's group of emissaries. Now did some of them visit Berelain? Dobraine who was in a similar position of power as Berelain only received one. Strange. Galina was black, Katherine also black, Elza again black, Fera once more of the black persuasion and there she quite a few of these in Dorlan at the moment and Katherine taught them Traveling. A black helping or ordered to help some more black sisters.

Thats quite a lot of Black Ajah there o its possible that she was being visited by at least one of them. Possibly passing on shadow orders.

 

5. There is doubts over Annoura as well. She might be black ajah and in that again another connection to the shadow for Berelain. There's no smoke without fire.

 

Okay so none of it is close to be even considered in the same ball park as conclusive but... who knows?

 

Hey with luck there might be some reasons to why I think Rhuarc is a dirty beggar of a darkfriend.

[Mr. Micawber]

The subtitle for this thread is, properly, Cocaine is a hell of a drug

 

Honestly, reading this thread, I wonder, did I miss the Five O'Clock Free Crack Giveaway?

[GYLD]

So pride and a rather high opinion of oneself tends to equal Darkfriend in the books.

 

Going by this logic, the entirety of the White Tower is made up of Black Ajah.

 

[Owayn The Traveller]

So pride and a rather high opinion of oneself tends to equal Darkfriend in the books.

 

Going by this logic, the entirety of the White Tower is made up of Black Ajah.

 

 

Hey quite o lot of it was.

 

The subtitle for this thread is, properly, Cocaine is a hell of a drug

 

Honestly, reading this thread, I wonder, did I miss the Five O'Clock Free Crack Giveaway?

 

Mr Milkado, I'm hurt, no, in fact I'm distraught at your suggestion. To set you straight I had eaten a few slices of fruitcake or as we call my other half's fruitcake- 'Val's flat fruitcake fruit fingers.

[Sid]

We have had no Berelain PoV's.  Also she never talked with Tuon, it was Banner-General Tylee Khirgan.  Hell, she could be a darkfriend, Rhuark could be a DF, anyone could be a DF if you knit enough moonbeams and happenstance together.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Alrite Sidney thats true we haven't had a PoV from here and that also helps hide the fact that she might be a darkfriend.

 

Also is it really all that much knitting of moonbeams? How about some things that prove or point that she isn't a dadkfriend.

 

Oh and thanks for spotting that for some reason I put Tuon in there. Good spot. I did it on purpose to see if anyone would notice. Honest I did ;)

[louigie15]

hey we cant keep citing the if weve had  X's POV they can't be a DF- that was turned on its head with Verin we did have her POV and well we all know what happened.

 

now going on this vein will Perrin bemarked with Fains sooty mark- with all the dark thinking that Perrin did while the rescue of Faile arc "I'd even make a deal with the DO to get her back, ect..."

 

Why did it take so long for you guys to realize Verin was BA?  After the AS were stilled or made to swear to RAnd in LoC, Verin was using compulsion to plant thoughts in the  other AS she was supposedly helping to recover.  Once I saw her using this capability I marked her as a BA person and never trusted her character.

[PatsNats28]

In which I'll try to explain why I think this, that Berelain is a DF'er:

 

1. In Knife of Dreams, A Deal. Berelain is talking to Tuon Tylee and a darkfriend trait comes to the fore:

 

"My family is descended from Artur Paendrag Tanreall," Berelain replied, holding her head high. An eddy in the breeze brought a whiff of pride among the patience and perfume

 

Perrin smells pride off her because she is related to Hawkwing. A slightly odd thing to be proud of when you think of what Paendrag did or what happened because of him- hatred of the Aes Sedai and the war against them and the War of a Hundred Years in the wake of his death. Both lead to a lot of death. That's not what I really want to discuss but rather her pride. A lot of the darkfriends we have seen have had it in bucket loads. Suroth, Liandrin, Mellor, Fain and a lot of the black ajah. So pride and a rather high opinion of oneself tends to equal Darkfriend in the books.

 

 

2. Its not the only time in this chapter that she pricked my attention.

 

"The only claim I make is to Mayene," Berelain said proudly. "And that I will defend to my last breath."

 

Again Berelain and a connection to being prideful or over proud. Also what will she not do to ensure Mayene protection?

 

 

3. Some items I found on 13TH Depository that I like.

-Berelain herself delivered a letter from Lanfear to Rand in Tear. - Contact with a forsaken.

-her attempts to undermine Perrin, suggests she is under the influence of the Shadow. - more than just a flirt?

 

4. In Lord of Chaos. Specifically the Feast of Lights chapter Berelain receives some Aes Sedai visitors:

 

I [berelain] received no fewer than ten visits from various sisters, advising me on what I should do when he returned to the Tower with them

 

Now we know that there was some black ajah in Elaida's group of emissaries. Now did some of them visit Berelain? Dobraine who was in a similar position of power as Berelain only received one. Strange. Galina was black, Katherine also black, Elza again black, Fera once more of the black persuasion and there she quite a few of these in Dorlan at the moment and Katherine taught them Traveling. A black helping or ordered to help some more black sisters.

Thats quite a lot of Black Ajah there o its possible that she was being visited by at least one of them. Possibly passing on shadow orders.

 

5. There is doubts over Annoura as well. She might be black ajah and in that again another connection to the shadow for Berelain. There's no smoke without fire.

 

Okay so none of it is close to be even considered in the same ball park as conclusive but... who knows?

 

Hey with luck there might be some reasons to why I think Rhuarc is a dirty beggar of a darkfriend.

 

Really dude? Really? And if Berelain hadn't brought the sword and buckle, they wouldn't have known Rand had been captured.

[Shadow Rider]

It's not a sin to feel Pride....is it?

[Owayn The Traveller]

No its not. I was trying to say that a lot of darkfriends that we know of have shown an overinflated pride, worth and what should be due to them. And I think that is what Berelain is doing in relation to her feelings on being a descendant of Hawkwing. Its no big deal and she is swelling up with pride over it.

 

@ PatsNats 28. Not all darkfriends are singing off the same hymn sheet. Taim rescued him and it appears that he is a darkfriend too.

[Duskfire]

RJ tends to drop hints when someone is a darkfriend, at least a semi-important character. There could be a case for Rhuarc being one, but I can't find anything for Berelain apart from her constant infatuation with Perrin and trying to break him and Faile up, and that could easily be her pulled up in his ta`veren web.

[PatsNats28]

No its not. I was trying to say that a lot of darkfriends that we know of have shown an overinflated pride, worth and what should be due to them. And I think that is what Berelain is doing in relation to her feelings on being a descendant of Hawkwing. Its no big deal and she is swelling up with pride over it.

 

@ PatsNats 28. Not all darkfriends are singing off the same hymn sheet. Taim rescued him and it appears that he is a darkfriend too.

 

Yeah, but by then news had somewhat broken... Taim didn't have to do it, but it was different because he wasn't the one who pointed it out.

[Owayn The Traveller]

No its not. I was trying to say that a lot of darkfriends that we know of have shown an overinflated pride, worth and what should be due to them. And I think that is what Berelain is doing in relation to her feelings on being a descendant of Hawkwing. Its no big deal and she is swelling up with pride over it.

 

@ PatsNats 28. Not all darkfriends are singing off the same hymn sheet. Taim rescued him and it appears that he is a darkfriend too.

 

Yeah, but by then news had somewhat broken... Taim didn't have to do it, but it was different because he wasn't the one who pointed it out.

 

The two of them could of been under conflicting orders from different forsaken. I t wouldn't be the first time we've seen that. The orignal black ajah bunch we were introduced to have a similiar problem I believe.

[farthammer]

Can't say I remember any DF's demonstrating pride due to their connection with someone who had achieved more than they themselves have.  Pride itself is meaningless as any kind of DF test, it's really only the why that matters.  There is a lot of ancestry pride going on all over the place in the wot universe by non evil people, why is Berelain not allowed to experience this without it implying she is on the side of the DO?  She is level headed in the majority of her scenes, no indication that pride is her major motivation for everything.

 

For perspective on Perrin he is out mutilating people over an egomaniac wife he's hardly worthy of criticizing Hawkwing.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Okay I hat to admit this but there is very little if any proof that Berelain is a darkfriend and also no one else agrees. Despite I still think she is. I have nothing more to add so this thread is dead unless someone else can think of something. Anything. Anyone? Oh well.

[Durinax]

eh I think she is a darkfriend, it just adds up for me

[Owayn The Traveller]

Well that's a relief. It is a concrete argument and I just at a lost that nobody else can agree.  ;)