Wait - Why *DID* The Aiel Do Such a Baaad Job in TGS of Stabilizing Arad Doman??

[The Fisher King]

This was during the time when Rand wanted to 'secure' The Merchant Council.

 

What a WASTE of Time THAT turned out...one of Al Thor's true political blunders imo.

 

Anyway...This really hit me tonight reading TGS again. This is my second reread. When I initially read the book during the first week of November, last year, I didn't really think much of this point at the time.

 

I was just thinking it was one more example of Crazy/Very Angry Rand in TGS being Very Angry at somebody.

 

But then...really look at it: Rhuarc has been The Dragon's ''Right-Hand Man'' (sorry Rand - no pun intended) throughout the series...also, The Aiel are always depicted as SO efficient and reliable. Give them a job and they do NOT fail.

 

I understand that Graendal had been working really Super Bad MoJo on that nation for quite awhile at that point...but she was not directly there affecting that area where Rand had left Aiel to do the job.

 

To me, it leaves three possibilities to explain this out of character event.

 

1 Perhaps some Dark Pals among Rhuarcs group? ---Is RHUARC a DF??? :(

 

2 Compulsion?

 

3 Graendal's cumulative effect was just too much for mere mortals to undo in so short a time.

 

4 They really did NOT do too bad a job - Crazy Rand just overreacted.

 

5 Author error.

 

... Ok. I have a feeling that most of you guys will pick a combination of 3 and 4 ... but I just have this feeling that we will find out that there is more to this.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Fish

[BKVMC]

wise one interferance  maybe that we havent seen yet im sure someone in that circle is a  DF we just havent been introduced to them yet

[The Fisher King]

I think you're right.

 

 

- Fish

[Demiandre]

But  you look at the situation, you can see it would have been hard to make things go the way Rand wanted. A scattered population, hungry, at that, poor, without a leader, as the king Alsalam has been presumably killed by Graendal, and the Merchant Council is all but destroyed. The remaining ones where only playing for influence in the city they were in, but not farther away. Arad Doman was a puzzle to be mended, and missing pieces at that.

 

The order had been restored in some way, but the food still roted, the King couldn't be found, a new one couldn't be elected. The prime source of order of a country - the Government, so to say - was lacking. And with the Seanchan and the Blight all around, the proximity of the Last Battle made it impossible for Rand to concentrate on Arad Doman fully. He had made a very good plan, but failed for many reasons. Graendal, Semirhage (and Elza), the Seanchan.

 

And I agree some darkfriend Aiel must have had an hand in it. But who  I don't know...

[The Fisher King]

All great points...I guess maybe Rand (And us, lol) just wasn't used to seeing the Aiel 'Fail' at a task.

 

 

- Fish

[BKVMC]

as much as i dont want this to  happen i  have a gut feeling either Sorilea or Amys is a  darkfriend.

[mossman87]

Yeah I definitely believe Sorilea is a DF, but she seems the perfect pawn to take our mind off of Amys, so either or as far as I'm concerned.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

I don't think I get what your trying to say. The Aiel were put under restrictions not to kill the army of Arad Doman, even though most of the army had turned bandit, and they weren't given food to hand out to the people the food came later. They restored order in the cities, but the countryside was too vast and chaotic for them to get under control quickly, and considering Rand followed them rather quickly, I doubt they had the time necessary to put the whole country back in order. Especially since there was no government to make the people feel safe, just a bunch of black-veiled Aiel making people jittery.

 

I don't think Sorilea or Amys are DF's, they have been helping the Light far too much.

[Dakota]

I don't think Sorilea or Amys are DF's, they have been helping the Light far too much.

 

Verin also did a lot to help the light, ie defending the Two Rivers from the invading trolloc army, amongst other things.

Granted, she's not the best example, as even though she was Black Ajah she was still for the most part one of the "good guys."  But still, it would be just like a DF to assist the light with the minor victories as long as they were working towards the big picture.

 

I really have no opinion as to which if any of the Aiel in Rand's inner circle are DFs, I'm just saying that one "helping the light" doesn't disqualify them from being a DF.

[mossman87]

This is a good theory on why Sorilea may be a DF, won't list author as ego is inflated enough:

http://www.theoryland.com/theories.php?func=5&rec=133&theo=2714

 

It's fun to talk about at least.

[Kikutez]

I don't think I get what your trying to say. The Aiel were put under restrictions not to kill the army of Arad Doman, even though most of the army had turned bandit, and they weren't given food to hand out to the people the food came later. They restored order in the cities, but the countryside was too vast and chaotic for them to get under control quickly, and considering Rand followed them rather quickly, I doubt they had the time necessary to put the whole country back in order. Especially since there was no government to make the people feel safe, just a bunch of black-veiled Aiel making people jittery.

 

I don't think Sorilea or Amys are DF's, they have been helping the Light far too much.

 

I totally agree with you, if I recall correctly (don't have the book with me) Rhuarc explains quite clearly how they weren't able to "secure" Arad Doman for Rand. The Aiel aren't used to bringing people to order, they are used to coerce people to order. (If that was pig-english, I'm sorry, I'm Dutch ^^) Aiel don't use honey and stick to get people to listen, they only use stick (and probably some more sticks)..

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

They're primitive barbarians with little to no civilized culture in the deeper sense. Their whole backstory and being has more or less been plagiarized from Dune's "Fremen," except none of the nuances or finer points that fleshed out the Fremen were explained or given about the Aiel. Making it possible they're as shallow as we are lead to believe.

 

Either way. An entire society based on a warrior cult is not fit to mandate and rule over a civilian population.

[The Fisher King]

Then I am afraid I must ask Pardraic and Kikutez:

 

WHY was Rand so MAD about it???

 

 

Fish

[Terrel88]

I thought it was established that Graendal killed/threatened/scared so many of the Merchant Council, which, combined with Alsalam's disappearance, screwed the country up to the point of breaking. I think the conflicting orders she was giving to Rodel Ituralde also sowed confusion amongst many of the Domani. Although I can see why it can be used as evidence for DF Wise Ones etc, I don't think there was anything to be done. They tried their best, but order and stability simply couldn't be done. Still think Rand did the right thing though :)

[Thor]

You think the aiel did a bad job? Well how would YOU bring peace to a nation without using lethal force? For that matter, how would RAND HIMSELF do it?

 

Oh yeah, that's right, he can't, and he just dumps it on someone else.

[Duskfire]

Yeah I don't think there was anything dodgy behind it, just that it was an impossible task given to the Aiel by Rand. If they had more time maybe, but you can't just solve something like that in such a short period.

[The Fisher King]

Terrel88 said: ''''I thought it was established that Graendal killed/threatened/scared so many of the Merchant Council, which, combined with Alsalam's disappearance, screwed the country up to the point of breaking.''''

 

All I can say in answer is: Well, actually...not at all. Thats ot even close to the case in TGS of what the situation was there.

 

 

 

Duskfire, to answer you, all I can say is:  I dont know, Im not there and Im not familar with the inner workings of Domani Politics, BUT, your post DOES beg the same question as earlier, which you (nor the original two) answer: ''WHY was Rand SO UPSET at The Aiel about the job they did???''

 

 

Thor - That is actually a good theory in my opinion. Rand seemed so impatient in TGS that he DID seem to do alot of ''Dumping'' of responsibility.

 

 

Fish

[BKVMC]

i dont think the aiel did a bad job but i definantly feel a different undercurrent  happening with  the aiel in  tgs  this is where i think our not as yet identified DF wise ones will come more into play.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Then I am afraid I must ask Pardraic and Kikutez:

 

WHY was Rand so MAD about it???

 

 

Fish

 

Because Rand is quite mad. He is mad with power partly, and by that I mean he has been spoiled by instant gratification for the past two years. And he is of course mad with ...madness. He's insane.

[DaughterOfNight]

This was during the time when Rand wanted to 'secure' The Merchant Council.

 

What a WASTE of Time THAT turned out...one of Al Thor's true political blunders imo.

 

Anyway...This really hit me tonight reading TGS again. This is my second reread. When I initially read the book during the first week of November, last year, I didn't really think much of this point at the time.

 

I was just thinking it was one more example of Crazy/Very Angry Rand in TGS being Very Angry at somebody.

 

But then...really look at it: Rhuarc has been The Dragon's ''Right-Hand Man'' (sorry Rand - no pun intended) throughout the series...also, The Aiel are always depicted as SO efficient and reliable. Give them a job and they do NOT fail.

 

 

A minor bit of speculation to add to this:

 

I vaguely remember reading (in tGS?) a part when one of the Aiel says that battle is what they do best, not playing policemen.  (That's obviously not verbatim, by the way.)  This brings up an interesting point, however, even though the Aiel are simply bad-asses, they are warriors at heart... even those who aren't fighters for a living like the Maidens, even though every Aiel knows how to wield a spear and they have created a remarkable societal structure in regard to how they live on a day-to-day basis... but I'm digressing...

 

Anyway, comparing our modern day military in Iraq to the Aiel in Arad Doman and such, I remember reading some criticism once upon a time about how our soldiers have been given general orders to 'restore order' and are doing more 'policing' of civilians than fighting.  Our soldiers are taught how to fight, not how to manipulate a people and poltics -- especially in a country with such unfamiliar and complex, yet 'barbaric' customs compared to our own, unable to comprehend or have a grasp on how life 'works' there -- kind of like how the Wetlanders see the Aiel as primitive barbarians even though we know they're not; they're just waaaay different and are not understood by outsiders.  If you think about it, most of our soldiers are young men straight out of high school and many of whom have not had advanced education.  I'm not saying their stupid, just that they joined the military to fight, not to 'fix' the people.

 

With that being said, both our soldiers and the Aiel are capable of playing police but they do better when they're put to use the way they know best -- to fight.  

[Padraic_Seebrr]

This was during the time when Rand wanted to 'secure' The Merchant Council.

 

What a WASTE of Time THAT turned out...one of Al Thor's true political blunders imo.

 

Anyway...This really hit me tonight reading TGS again. This is my second reread. When I initially read the book during the first week of November, last year, I didn't really think much of this point at the time.

 

I was just thinking it was one more example of Crazy/Very Angry Rand in TGS being Very Angry at somebody.

 

But then...really look at it: Rhuarc has been The Dragon's ''Right-Hand Man'' (sorry Rand - no pun intended) throughout the series...also, The Aiel are always depicted as SO efficient and reliable. Give them a job and they do NOT fail.

 

 

A minor bit of speculation to add to this:

 

I vaguely remember reading (in tGS?) a part when one of the Aiel says that battle is what they do best, not playing policemen.  (That's obviously not verbatim, by the way.)  This brings up an interesting point, however, even though the Aiel are simply bad-asses, they are warriors at heart... even those who aren't fighters for a living like the Maidens, even though every Aiel knows how to wield a spear and they have created a remarkable societal structure in regard to how they live on a day-to-day basis... but I'm digressing...

 

Anyway, comparing our modern day military in Iraq to the Aiel in Arad Doman and such, I remember reading some criticism once upon a time about how our soldiers are doing more 'policing' of civilians than fighting.  Our soldiers are taught how to fight, not how to manipulate a people and poltics -- especially in a country with such unfamiliar and complex, yet 'barbaric' customs compared to our own -- kind of like how the Wetlanders see the Aiel as primitive barbarians even though we know they're not; they're just waaaay different and are not understood by outsiders.  If you think about it, most of our soldiers are young men straight out of high school and many of whom have not had advanced education.  I'm not saying their stupid, just that they joined the military to fight, not to 'fix' the people.

 

With that being said, both our soldiers and the Aiel are capable of playing police but they do better when they're put to use the way they know best -- to fight.  

 

A very interesting parallel. Never thought about that.

[The Fisher King]

That actually IS an interesting Parallel.

 

The only unfortunate aspect to it is the fact that in MY country we had a little something happen here a few years ago called 9/11. Maybe you heard about it? ...It occured here for definitive reasons. The MAIN reason 9/11 occured in The United States is because Americans are a people that live free and want to live free. It'd be the easy thing to do to not support American Military being in Iraq, but I am one American that is NOT going to let the terrorists win.

 

Fish

[DaughterOfNight]

They're primitive barbarians with little to no civilized culture in the deeper sense. Their whole backstory and being has more or less been plagiarized from Dune's "Fremen," except none of the nuances or finer points that fleshed out the Fremen were explained or given about the Aiel. Making it possible they're as shallow as we are lead to believe.

 

Either way. An entire society based on a warrior cult is not fit to mandate and rule over a civilian population.

 

Ah, did not notice that you shared this bit of insight before I did... Great minds think alike, I suppose!

[Padraic_Seebrr]

That actually IS an interesting Parallel.

 

The only unfortunate aspect to it is the fact that in MY country we had a little something happen here a few years ago called 9/11. Maybe you heard about it? ...It occured here for definitive reasons. The MAIN reason 9/11 occured in The United States is because Americans are a people that live free and want to live free. It'd be the easy thing to do to not support American Military being in Iraq, but I am one American that is NOT going to let the terrorists win.

 

Fish

 

I agree wholly Fish, and never meant to seem like I didn't support the war. I was merely commenting on how I never noticed the parallel before.

 

Also, lets not talk politics on here, this site is about WoT, not the real world.

[jsbrads]

Maybe the only problem was Rand's bad mojo being taveren he undid all the good work the aiel did

The balance broke down while he was there