I don't think Nynaeve should have been able to do this...

[DaughterOfNight]

I think I may have discovered a mistake in Knife of Dreams!  From what we know about Traveling and the limitations of creating gateways, I want to know what you all think about this:

 

In the chapter, The Golden Crane, Nynaeve takes Lan to World's End via a gateway and then immediately weaves another one when they get there.  As far as I know, Nynaeve has never been to World's End and if my memory serves me correctly, doesn't one have to get to know the area around them to be able to weave a gateway from there to another location? 

 

Does anyone else find this odd?  If Nynaeve didn't know the area around her, how was she able to make another gateway so fast?  I know that holding the power helps you 'learn' your location faster, but does it work that fast, like immediately in her case?

 

Seems like a minor slip-up, what do you think?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Mmmm, yeah, seems a bit odd, but didnt they "spend one last night" wherever they first travelled to?

 

That would imply that she was there for at least, what, 8 hours? something like that, so she could have learned the area in that time.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Wait, i am wrong, she didnt spend a night.

 

But she kept the gateway open, so she didnt actually have to weave a new one

[Kadere]

A person immediately knows an area they open a gateway in. She wouldn't have to wait around, she knows it because her gateway opened there.

[Durinax]

yeah just like rands war against teh seanchan in the south, so long as you open the gateway in the same spot you can open a new one immediately. or if you sit around for 15 minutes holding the power you can open a new one to anywhere (just a guess on the time frame)

[Fains nose]

Yeh you learn an area by travelling to it so thereres no mistake there. The ashaman did the same thing in PoD when fighting the seanchan, they used gateways to scout. One thing that Nynaeve has done that we havent seen elsewere is when she does her accepted test she faces aginor who throws lightning against her, but she bends his flows and turns the lightning against him and aginor is like "no, thats imposible!". I wonder if we will see Nynaeve do this again?

[DaughterOfNight]

Well, okay then, my question is answered!  I am such a devoted fan of the series and have been reading them (and re-reading over and over and over) since I was 15... every time I reread them, I always catch a detail here or there that I previously missed but I just don't know how some of you do it, being able to recall such nuances so easily and accurately.

 

Because of that, I envy you.  :)

 

One thing I do know, that chapter is my favorite one of Nynaeve and Lan.  I just love how she pulls a total Aes Sedai move and takes him to the Borderlands but as far away as possible, just so she can do her thing and help gather him an army.  And then I love loooove when the jeweler is examining Nynaeve's jewelery (ter'angreal) and then stops dead in his tracks when his eyes catch her serpent ring. Then at the end of the scene, when Nynaeve announces that she has a few more stops to make before going back to Tear and then leaves, the jeweler is left stunned and in awe of the 'marvels Aes Sedai are capable of'. 

 

There is just something so awesome about that short little part in the chapter that I love... and it's just fun to reflect on it, thinking about how the characters have grown and just Nynaeve being Nynaeve in all her glory and mystery (if only to that jeweler and those around him, haha)

[Barid Bel Medar]

I also like Nynaeve, shes one of the few channelers that have really grown and learned (although for a while she was pretty stubborn to say the least) one of my favorite characters

[OptimusPrime]

I may have it wrong... but I always thought it was that you have to know the area you are Travelling from in order to Travel... and in TGS Rand made a gateway to only a few feet away which automatically meant he knew the area well enough to Travel from it.

 

Im pretty sure thats right. You dont need to know the area you are Traveling to that well, this is how Aviendha could Travel to Seanchan without going there, the thing is in order to get back you must learn the new area.

 

I can understand the confusion though, but the way the books portray it means you dont have to be well travelled in order to become well Travelled, if you know what I mean.

[nolirion]

Nynaeve have travel quiet a lot those time (by foot) she cross many country I think she already knew the place .

 

 

Tought there is something that trouble me , I am quiet a good lover myself but I wonder how every character can last 8 or 10 hour doing it  , is that something with the one power ?

[torrente]

No, once you've travelled anywhere you can always travel from there.

 

The thing I find strange is that you can create gateways TO places you don't know, but you can't create gateways FROM places you don't know.

 

 

[Demiandre]

No, once you've travelled anywhere you can always travel from there.

 

The thing I find strange is that you can create gateways TO places you don't know, but you can't create gateways FROM places you don't know.

 

 

 

You can... It's called Skimming.

 

Those two types of travelling are different in only one thing : focus point. For one, you need to know where you are, and anywhere you don't know, and Skimming xhen you know where you want to go, but not where you are.

 

Ypu concentrate on what you know, and bend/plow the Pattern accordingly. As you know the starting point, you can bend/plow your thread in the Pattern into another location.

In the same principle, as you know where you want to be in the Pattern, no need to know where you depart from.

[Val Mickey]

I didn't think Nynaeve would have been able to leave hubby Lan :)

 

The Accepted ter'angreal helped her do it, I think. I also think that in some warped way, it gives a clue as to what to do in the future. In Nynaeve's case, it was leaving Lan to danger. Maybe Egwene will have to let Rand die.

[Thor]

Yeh you learn an area by travelling to it so thereres no mistake there. The ashaman did the same thing in PoD when fighting the seanchan, they used gateways to scout. One thing that Nynaeve has done that we havent seen elsewere is when she does her accepted test she faces aginor who throws lightning against her, but she bends his flows and turns the lightning against him and aginor is like "no, thats imposible!". I wonder if we will see Nynaeve do this again?

 

Well against other people maybe.  But the real Aginor (if he was at full strength) would have overpowered Nynaeve easily, even Logain could have easily overpowered Nynaeve and I'm pretty sure Aginor would be stronger in pure power than Logain.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Just as a point of interest.

 

Aginor was second only to LTT, Ishamael and Lanfear. (so fourth really)

[DaughterOfNight]

Yeh you learn an area by travelling to it so thereres no mistake there. The ashaman did the same thing in PoD when fighting the seanchan, they used gateways to scout. One thing that Nynaeve has done that we havent seen elsewere is when she does her accepted test she faces aginor who throws lightning against her, but she bends his flows and turns the lightning against him and aginor is like "no, thats imposible!". I wonder if we will see Nynaeve do this again?

 

Interesting.....!!

[DaughterOfNight]

I may have it wrong... but I always thought it was that you have to know the area you are Travelling from in order to Travel... and in TGS Rand made a gateway to only a few feet away which automatically meant he knew the area well enough to Travel from it.

 

Im pretty sure thats right. You dont need to know the area you are Traveling to that well, this is how Aviendha could Travel to Seanchan without going there, the thing is in order to get back you must learn the new area.

 

I can understand the confusion though, but the way the books portray it means you dont have to be well travelled in order to become well Travelled, if you know what I mean.

 

No, no... I definitely remember that one doesn't need to know the location where they're going to well... I guess it just didn't stick in my mind that you can immediately weave another gateway from the same location that you just traveled to, you know?

 

So I guess my confusion was that even though you don't need to know the area you're going to, you would still need to learn that area once you arrived, if you wanted to weave a gateway from there.

[Demiandre]

@DaughterOfNight

 

No the opening of the gateway somewhere you don't know makes you learn the spot. That is the reason why there are Travelling Grounds (also with the fact that they shall not kill anybody with the Gateway) it's easier to make a gateway where you already did one. That is the case in The Rebel camp, Cairhien, Caemlyn, certainly Tear and Illian...

 

The only way you don't have to learn the location is when you Travel very short distance. Then you can spin another gateway to somewhere by learning the place when coming from the first place you where, as Rand did when meeting Hurin.

 

 

[Fains nose]

@Thor    no i think your wrong. I dont think its as simple as the strongest person always wins, go and re-read that chapter, nynaeve used aginors moves/power against him, in a way that aginor thought was imposible and therefore was in no way expecting. And the way she did it sounded like a real method/weave, but nynaeve didnt know enough about the power at that point to articulate exactly what she was doing, it wasnt just some fantasy of the terangreal. I think this scene is important and we wil see nymaeve use this again against demandred or rand

[yoniy0]

I don't see where the confusion comes from. Nyneave explains this in TGS when Rand uses both the ability to Travel short distances without familiarity with either spot AND the ability to instantly learn a spot well enough to Travel from by first Travelling to that spot, after talking with Hurin. Go back to that scene, and I think all will be made clear.

[Thor]

@Thor    no i think your wrong. I dont think its as simple as the strongest person always wins, go and re-read that chapter, nynaeve used aginors moves/power against him, in a way that aginor thought was imposible and therefore was in no way expecting. And the way she did it sounded like a real method/weave, but nynaeve didnt know enough about the power at that point to articulate exactly what she was doing, it wasnt just some fantasy of the terangreal. I think this scene is important and we wil see nymaeve use this again against demandred or rand

 

right you seriously think a person who is skilled enough to rearrange genetic material using the one power can be defeated by someone much weaker? don't be obscene. that's almost as bad as the english football team thinking they have a chance to win the world cup.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Is anyone else annoyed that Nynaeve isn't the strongest female channeler anymore? I am!

[Fains nose]

@Thor  Aginor 'rearanging genetic material with the one power' has nothing to do with his fighting ability, and again, i refer you to that chapter, aginor was shocked at what Nynaeve was able to do with his flows, it was something hed never seen, thought was imposible and had no knowledge of how to counter. Similar tecniques are used in martial arts were you use your oponents strength and weight against them.

[Demiandre]

@Thor   Aginor 'rearanging genetic material with the one power' has nothing to do with his fighting ability, and again, i refer you to that chapter, aginor was shocked at what Nynaeve was able to do with his flows, it was something hed never seen, thought was imposible and had no knowledge of how to counter. Similar tecniques are used in martial arts were you use your oponents strength and weight against them.

 

I shall say that Aginor was just a bit weaker than Ishamael, thus almost on Rand's level. So he probably was stronger than Logain, only if just by an inch. But then, it's not pure force that determines the winner. See New Srping, the fight between Ryne and Lan. Lan was weaker, and he won in the end. And I agree with Fains nose on the fact that rearranging genetic material - with the True Power, in fact, not the One Power - has nothing to do with his fighting ability, as he states during the Cleansing. He says that his Talents lays somewhere else (The Trollocs, Worms, and others Shadowspawn). And the fight between Aginor and Nynaeve hasn't really happened. It took place in a ter'angreal that uses the T'A'R in some way we do not know for the moment. So what happenned in it could not entirely be true.

 

But it should be possible, like martial arts as you said, to redirect flow. But I suppose you have to know what they are. Lanfear could probably do it (she states she doesn't need to see the flows to cut them. So I suppose she could, instead of cutting them, redirect them) with a little training. And Nynaeve could also learn how to do it again if she figures it out from her memories of the ter'angreal

[Barid Bel Medar]

I really dont think we can put any real faith in what happened in the Accpeted test, it wasnt real, inasfar as the current world, if it was real, it was an alternate world, perhaps a mirror world, but even that is not certain (it could be T'A'R, but im not really convinced, not enough evidence either way)

so really, that debate is invalid. (note. it is possible that this was in some way a reflection of what is real, and that Nynaeve may have that particular power, but nothing can be said for sure on the subject.)

 

But I agree, strength in the OP doesnt necessarily mean victory. It helps a good deal, but there are other factors involved, as RJ has said. Women weave more "dexterously" than men, that evens it out, they are generally stronger in different areas, they have different abilities unique to saidar/saidin. (the male goosebumps, female can see if another cna channel etc..) so while in a battle of raw stength, head to head, Aginor could win, Nynaeve could do many things to balance this out (remember she was running from him and suchlike) So really, if the circumstances of such a battle arnt clear, i dont see how one could predict with any finality the outcome of the battle.