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Queen Moiraine


Kaman
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Does anyone know how far removed Moiraine is from the Sun throne. Does she have any legitimate claim to be Queen of Cairhein. If possible I would like to see her as Queen. Then Rand wouldn't have to divide his attention in so many ways and Elayne could fully focus on Andor.

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As the niece of Laman, she has a pretty substantial claim. Have you read New Spring yet? Her claim to the Sun Throne is discussed there, but I don't want to spoil you.

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No I haven't read New Spring yet. I don't have the actual book but I do have it on audiobook. I am listening to LoC again. After that book is done I will check out New spring. Thanks for the heads up.

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Does anyone know how far removed Moiraine is from the Sun throne. Does she have any legitimate claim to be Queen of Cairhein. If possible I would like to see her as Queen. Then Rand wouldn't have to divide his attention in so many ways and Elayne could fully focus on Andor.

 

She's the Queen of my heart, if that helps  :-*

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I would think that Galad's claim and then Elayne's is stronger by blood. Those two also have considerable political and military power of their own, especially Elayne. I really don't see Moraine becoming Queen, she'll be far too busy with Rand and co. preparing for and fighting the final showdown with the Dark One.

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I wonder if Rand would even allow Galad to have the sun throne. I guess that there could be a your mom was my mom so we are cool moment, but I hope that Galad just stays a whitecloak. He doesn't deserve better than that. Rand wants Elayne to have the Sun Throne, but she already has Andor and a pregnancy to a pair of twins to deal with. I don't see her even being able to take on ruling Cairhien.

 

To my thinking that leaves Moiraine as the top choice to rule Cairhien. With her ability to beat the rest of the Cairhienen nobility at the game of houses and of coarse her being Aes Sedai, she has the skills to get the dirty job done right.

 

Also, since I haven't read New Spring yet I don't know how in depth it goes into Moiraines right to the Sun Throne. New Spring was written after book 5 and I find it interesting that RJ would write so much about Moiraines family tree if it was not to play a role down the road.

 

Maybe I think this just because I like Moiraine so much and feel that she deserves it after RJ exiled her to the finns for a decade and a half.

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I wonder if Rand would even allow Galad to have the sun throne. I guess that there could be a your mom was my mom so we are cool moment, but I hope that Galad just stays a whitecloak. He doesn't deserve better than that. Rand wants Elayne to have the Sun Throne, but she already has Andor and a pregnancy to a pair of twins to deal with. I don't see her even being able to take on ruling Cairhien.

 

To my thinking that leaves Moiraine as the top choice to rule Cairhien. With her ability to beat the rest of the Cairhienen nobility at the game of houses and of coarse her being Aes Sedai, she has the skills to get the dirty job done right.

 

Also, since I haven't read New Spring yet I don't know how in depth it goes into Moiraines right to the Sun Throne. New Spring was written after book 5 and I find it interesting that RJ would write so much about Moiraines family tree if it was not to play a role down the road.

 

Maybe I think this just because I like Moiraine so much and feel that she deserves it after RJ exiled her to the finns for a decade and a half.

 

Ye, Moiraine deserves it for sure, but I dont think she will want the sun throne, she, as charlz said, really only cares about Rand and the battle against the Shadow.

I really dont think Elayne could cope with two thrones, she has barely managed to hold Andor. and only beacuse she knows her own land and loves it and will do anything to see it thrive. I jsut cant see it being the same as Cairhien. The Great Game would eat her alive, and she jsut doesnt have the drive or cares enough about Cairhien to rule it successfully.

 

But my bet would be Dobraine, he deserves it second to Moiraine

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As spoiler-free as I can, NS doesn't debate the Damodred family tree extensively, but enough is said to deduce that Moiraine has a valid claim to the Throne (or rather, she had one 20 years ago).

BTW Nobody asked, but Caraline will have no claim to the Throne should she go ahead with her plans to marry Darlin (and Min said that she will), since by law the spouse of a reigning foreign monarch cannot ascend to the Sun Throne (the same law that blocked Taringail at the time).

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Something to say regarding Aes Sedai queens - or any kings or queens who use the One Power with regularity...

 

They will be rulers for a LONG time, for better or worse. The 'ageless' look of Aes Sedai seem to be relatively common knowledge, but I suspect that their longevity is not. A ruler who has lived and ruled for generation after generation, all the while able to make miraculous things happen with a wave of their hand and defending their kingdon and its people with bolts of lightning and fire from heaven... that's how Gods are made, my friend.

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Something to say regarding Aes Sedai queens - or any kings or queens who use the One Power with regularity...

 

They will be rulers for a LONG time, for better or worse. The 'ageless' look of Aes Sedai seem to be relatively common knowledge, but I suspect that their longevity is not. A ruler who has lived and ruled for generation after generation, all the while able to make miraculous things happen with a wave of their hand and defending their kingdon and its people with bolts of lightning and fire from heaven... that's how Gods are made, my friend.

Aes Sedai ruled many of the Ten Nations and they didn't become Gods.

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She has a clear claim.

But why would she be interested in pressing it since she also has bad vibes about her family?

Why would Rand want to replace Dobraine, who has been faithful and taken near-fatal injuries for him?

Also any attempt to put Moiraine into play would start all sorts of Daes Daemar intrigue which he absolutely doesn't need.

The genealogy is explained over several books -not just NS, it's referred to in passing in TFoH and in TSR when she and Thom are exchanging words. 

You can write an (incomplete) tree for Laman, Taraingil, Moiraine, Galad and Elayne if you so desire.

 

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I am not sure why Rand doesn't just give it to Dobraine. He still intends to give it to Elayne for some strange reason, even though Dobraine has been awesome and loyal ever since he came into the series. Probably the only Cairheren lord who didn't plot and scheme against him. I mean come on, he went along with Perrin willingly to Dumai Wells and charged into a crapload of Aiel. That alone should get him the nod.

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You know, it's weird that I'm just thinking about this now, but Elayne actually can't legally make a claim to the Sun Throne. Rand would have to change their laws first (which, admittedly, he's probably willing to do). I just don't think she deserves the Throne, though. I mean, Andor, for sure, but what has she done to deserve Cairhien?

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Dobraind definately deserves it, and i really like dobraine so i hope he gets the sun throne, but as far as elayne deserve the throne of andor? I dont remember her bein elected by the people, shes nothing more than a military dictator and if she was in our world, she would be considered evil

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Your issue isn't with Elayne, it's with the concept of Monarchy. How you can wish the Sun Throne to Dobraine and condemn Elayne in the same sentence is beyond me, but you should remember that absolutely NO ruler in Randland has the mandate of his/her people, including Rand.

As monarchs go, Elayne's a direct descendant of the former Queen, and she is certainly capable enough. What better claim could there be?

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I realise my comment was clearly contradictory; while on one hand i want my favourite characters to rule, i do have a problem with the monarchy/feudal system. I have a lot of problems with seeing the Seanchan as bad because they leash people who can channel and keep human 'property' and seeing Elayne as good when we have a three book arc about her siezing power through military force purely for herself as an individual, it sort of makes me question what constitutes good and bad/evil. However i forgive the same thing in characters i like, so maybe my problems with Elayne... Okay, i dont like Elayne

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Although I really like Dobraine, there's the easy chance that a) he doesn't want the throne either. Noone's asked him. B) he may not make a good King. Being a good 'joint' custodian with Berelain isn't the same thing (although she did leave eventually).

 

Having said that, I wouldn't mind Rand offering it to him, or making comments as to why he wouldn't (besides the madness of not trusting anyone).

 

I've read some comments from people who don't like Moiraine for her behaviour in TEOTW, and I'm kind-of in agreement (that she considered killing people just for being observant). Not sure I'd want that as a Queen, even if she's 'effective'.

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I've read some comments from people who don't like Moiraine for her behaviour in TEOTW, and I'm kind-of in agreement (that she considered killing people just for being observant). Not sure I'd want that as a Queen, even if she's 'effective'.

I don't necessarily disagree with you (I'm not sure where I stand on this), but that's still pretty naive. Individuals are sacrificed in the name of the greater good on a daily basis, all around us. And it's not always because their well-being collides with some interest of the commonwealth - more often than not, it's just because other people can't be bothered. I won't bore you with examples. Suffice it to say that Moiraine wouldn't have killed them (is it Faile that you're referring to?) for being observant, it's because they threaten to compromise her struggle against the Shadow (if the Shadow wins, everyone's doomed anyway...)

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Well, how did that guy at Jarra (wolfbrother's brother) 'threaten' her? By Perrin telling her that the guy knew she was Aes Sedai. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

So yes, the threat of him bringing whitecloaks down atop them was possible, but in no flaming way a definite. Yet she considering setting Lan on him. If it was such a risk if she's recognised, then don't go putting yourself in a position where other people are in danger because they may recognise you. And she could just as well have sent Lan to gather evidence of Rand's passing while staying outside the town.

 

Btw, the above was mentioned by another poster (sorry can't remember who), but I agree wholeheartedly with them.

 

If Moiraine can make such poor decisions, and consider making others pay with their lives, then I'd really not want her to rule me. I do think that she has learnt and grown since though. And I cannot dispute that she would be a very effective ruler.

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Power is the only thing people (not just the low people, but the upperclass as well) respect in these books.  That being said, Elayne is a tyrant who started a war because "it was her right", but Deylan commanded just as much respect, AND people would've accepted her, averting the war.  So elayne made her people suffer for "her right" and not because it was better for her people.  She even thinks deylen would've been a good ruler too.

 

I'm pretty sure Moiraine wouldn't want to be the queen.  I think she likes having adventures too much.  If she did want to be queen.  She would be strong, and waste less lives than most, because she would see more solutions than war to most problems, and therefor have better options, but she wouldn't be afraid to start a war either if it was the most expedient way to avert a greater threat.  She is more advanced in ethics/morals or whatever than almost everyone in the books that we get a good look at, but even she buys into classes a little bit.  Basically she'd still make an excellent ruler compared to the rulers we've seen, and better than most of our rulers, but not perfect.

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