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Which major cities will be destroyed in the last two books?


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The question is simple, what cities will be sacked and razed by armies of the Shadow?

 

I made a similar post way back before we knew about the split which you can look at here.

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,36345.0.html

 

Needless to say, after The Gathering Storm, your opinion may have changed.

 

Mine has, I've added Bandar Eban to my list of doomed cities, while Far Madding with the Borderlanders in the vicinity has dropped down the rankings a bit. I've decided Lugard is either directly or indirectly under Demandred's control so it's not likely to be sacked either. Jehannah is a lock to be razed. There doesn't seem to be any armed force of any worth in that country, and Perrin and Galad wouldn't be able to stop 100,000 Trollocs even if they can get there in time. I have to think that at least one Seanchan held city will go down, my gut says Amador. At least one border capital will fall, perhaps more. I think Shol Arbela is most likely, given the etymology of Arafel. Cairhein still hasn't recovered fully from the civil war and the Shadio invasion, and the rest of the Aiel have left. I could see them going down.

 

What say you Dragonmount?

 

I'd make a poll, but that option doesn't seem to exist in this forum for some reason.  ???

 

The options are

Amador 

Bandar Eban

Caemlyn

Chachin

Cairhien

Ebou Dar

Fal Moran

Far Madding

Illian

Jehannah

Lugard

Maradon

Mayne

Shol Arbela

Tanchico (huh, somehow forgot this one last time)

Tar Valon

Tear

 

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Mexico city and moscow. Actually I am gonna make the call on elmora, I think that saldaea is going to be pretty much destroyed

 

meyenes safe

Elmora isn't a great city or national capital. It might be as big as Fal Dara or even Katar, but that still doesn't put it in the category of the other cities mentioned.

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As far as Borderland cities go, I'm going to say Fal Dara and Fal Moran are going to escape destruction since Lan's Malkieri army will be striking north from there. Saldaea looks like a weak spot and we know that Shadowspawn have been massing in great numbers just north of Saldaea (enough to "overrun Ituralde's force of 50,000 plus 100 Asha'man), and on top of this Ituralde might jump ship, so due to this I predict Maradon's going to be overrun before even Pheidippides can think of jogging off to tell anyone.

 

We had a Shadowspawn sighting in TGS within leagues of Ebou Dar, and leveling Fortuona's seat of power in the Westlands would be devastating to the Seanchan, so I'm going to predict that Ebou Dar is about to end up with at least a triple bogey over par in the front nine.

 

Third, with the increased concentration of force in Caemlyn taken in connection with the Black Tower nearby and the connection to Camlaan (sp?) in the Arturian legends makes me think the city's going to be attacked and/or wiped off the face of Andor.

 

In summary: Maradon, Ebou Dar, Caemlyn

 

Anything else will simply be gravy.

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As far as Borderland cities go, I'm going to say Fal Dara and Fal Moran are going to escape destruction since Lan's Malkieri army will be striking north from there. Saldaea looks like a weak spot and we know that Shadowspawn have been massing in great numbers just north of Saldaea (enough to "overrun Ituralde's force of 50,000 plus 100 Asha'man), and on top of this Ituralde might jump ship, so due to this I predict Maradon's going to be overrun before even Pheidippides can think of jogging off to tell anyone.

 

We had a Shadowspawn sighting in TGS within leagues of Ebou Dar, and leveling Fortuona's seat of power in the Westlands would be devastating to the Seanchan, so I'm going to predict that Ebou Dar is about to end up with at least a triple bogey over par in the front nine.

 

Third, with the increased concentration of force in Caemlyn taken in connection with the Black Tower nearby and the connection to Camlaan (sp?) in the Arturian legends makes me think the city's going to be attacked and/or wiped off the face of Andor.

 

In summary: Maradon, Ebou Dar, Caemlyn

 

Anything else will simply be gravy.

 

I doubt Maradon will fall, Saldea is the strongest border state and those 50,000 Domani and 100 Asha'man will make the difference. Saldea will be hit before news makes it out of that black hole of despair.

 

Yeah, Ebou Dar proper and Caemlyn aren't gonna fall. The Rahad will because it's not walled in, but being the center of power has it's perks. All those damane and the deathwatch guard will keep the Trollocs out. Caemlyn has dozens of women who can channel and with the Band close to 150k soldiers in the vicinity, so although it will be the site of a tremendous battle I don't see it falling.

 

I can definitely see Shienar being overrun, no way does Lan make it that far east unless he runs into Aes Sedai who can travel.

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Cairhien, Tanchico, Ebou Dar, Shayol Ghul/Thakandar, Tar Valon, Caemlyn and whatever stedding the Great Stump will be located at.

 

I think there's going to be a lot of destruction. We have notes in the books from the Fourth Age. For those to have been written as being in the fourth there must still be memories of the previous age as the third and that seems to me like the notes were written within a few generations of the Last Battle - and those notes are titled with nations we haven't heard of yet.

 

I say Caemlyn because either Perrin is going to die or he will be set up as a king, and Elayne would not allow that if Andor still existed. "Andor has always had a queen." and all that. I think Perrin's death would be a more fitting end to his tragic storyline, but I can't see it happening. There is no room for both the Two Rivers and its rising fame and Caemlyn in Andor.

 

Tar Valon will be destroyed either by dreadlords or Dragonmount's eruption. The Black Tower will never be finished.

 

Seanchan is already in chaos and will be left untouched by the trolloc horde.

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Cairhien, Tanchico, Ebou Dar, Shayol Ghul/Thakandar, Tar Valon, Caemlyn and whatever stedding the Great Stump will be located at.

 

I think there's going to be a lot of destruction. We have notes in the books from the Fourth Age. For those to have been written as being in the fourth there must still be memories of the previous age as the third and that seems to me like the notes were written within a few generations of the Last Battle - and those notes are titled with nations we haven't heard of yet.

 

I say Caemlyn because either Perrin is going to die or he will be set up as a king, and Elayne would not allow that if Andor still existed. "Andor has always had a queen." and all that. I think Perrin's death would be a more fitting end to his tragic storyline, but I can't see it happening. There is no room for both the Two Rivers and its rising fame and Caemlyn in Andor.

 

Tar Valon will be destroyed either by dreadlords or Dragonmount's eruption. The Black Tower will never be finished.

 

Seanchan is already in chaos and will be left untouched by the trolloc horde.

 

Although if Perrin were to become a king, I would see it more likely being in the North, in Saldea, since they have the vision of the Broken Crown, and Faile and Davram Bashere both mention something along that line (it being related to their family).  If you mean Manatheren, which was in the area of Andor, that would more likely fall to Mat if it fell to anyone (although he technically is involved in all the Seanchan areas, so he sort of has a "kingdom" of his own already), since Min saw a red eagle in his viewing (the symbol of Manatheren) and there has been some fairly strong evidence that he is Manatheren's last king reborn (these memories, etc. occurred before his trip to Rhuidean).

 

As for what cities get destroyed... hard to say.  A part of me wouldn't be surprised if Tar Valon got destroyed - I would think that would be hit first and hardest, depending on how things shape up between Rand and the Aes Sedai - but we'll see... it could very well survive as well.

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I see Far Madding getting destroyed.  Strategically it's the best location south of the Blight for a Shadowspawn army to camp out.  Plus, the city is virtually defenseless, the populace is not allowed to arm itself and the Watchmen-idiots run around with nightsticks.  The Guardian stops male/female channeling (except for Wells), which negates the presumed advantage the Light has in channelers.  Stedding function similarly but they also repel Shadowspawn so they are not ideal.  This makes even more sense if Demandred's base of operations is Murandy as Roedran, but it would be a tempting target in any case.  I'd guess 10,000 Trollocs would be able to overrun the whole city.

 

Aside from strategy, Far Madding is virtually Amazonian in nature, with women dominating over the men.  RJ has consistently demonstrated a theme of strength derived from gender unity.  So it would make sense with RJ's worldview to have a city like Far Madding be destroyed. 

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For a Borderland city, I think Shol Arbela is a likely candidate, especially since we haven't had a scene yet in the series.  I also think Cairhien is doomed.  All of the Daes Dae'mar plotting for generations is about to catch up to the Cairhienins.  Plus, between the civil war and the Shaido invastion, it's ripe for the plucking.

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Maradon and Chachin are very likely since Lan is taking his army to the Gap and will be bring men for leagues to his banner there will be a shortage of fighting me along the blight especially with the Borderlanders being in the south. Ebou Dar is a possibility with a Trolloc army in the area its defiantly possible.

 

elayne will die with caemlyn. that is what will happen.

 

as for that comment there is no basis for that statement since Min's viewing [i/]specifically[/i] said that her babies would be born healthy so she can't die till she has at least given birth and the odds of RJ and BS wanting to kill off a main character like that are slim to none so i would appreciate to hear the opinion behind that.

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I doubt Maradon will fall, Saldea is the strongest border state and those 50,000 Domani and 100 Asha'man will make the difference. Saldea will be hit before news makes it out of that black hole of despair.

 

Ituralde right now has the only army of any size in Saldaea because the vast majority of the Saldaean army is in Far Madding. The Borderlanders didn't leave behind anything more than a token force to watch over a very quiet Blight. The trollocs sighted gathering along the Saldaean Blight border are sufficient to "overrun" his army -- suggesting hundreds of thousands (or even more -- millions?) are massing there. If Ituralde sticks around, he'd be able to send asha'man to deliver warning, retreat to Maradon and hope to hold it until help arrived, but what if Ituralde returns to Arad Doman, as Rand expects will happen? There won't be anyone to stop or slow the trolloc advance until it's too late for Maradon (which would certainly be a prime target for the Shadowspawn forces to blitz and crush)

 

If we're going to see some major cities fall, Maradon doesn't have much going in favor of its survival right now.

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is it just me or is it kinda weird that ZERO cities have been destroyed by rand or the seanchan or trollocs that we have seen?

 

Shadar Logoth was destroyed by Rand in order to cleanse Siadin it may not have been populated but it was a city. As for "destroyed" its hard to destroy a city sure u can Raze it to the foundations but can you ever truly "destroy" a city as long as its people remain to rebuild. and if u wanna look at it even more in depth can't one say the Two Rivers was "Destroyed"?

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I doubt Maradon will fall, Saldea is the strongest border state and those 50,000 Domani and 100 Asha'man will make the difference. Saldea will be hit before news makes it out of that black hole of despair.

 

Ituralde right now has the only army of any size in Saldaea because the vast majority of the Saldaean army is in Far Madding. The Borderlanders didn't leave behind anything more than a token force to watch over a very quiet Blight. The trollocs sighted gathering along the Saldaean Blight border are sufficient to "overrun" his army -- suggesting hundreds of thousands (or even more -- millions?) are massing there. If Ituralde sticks around, he'd be able to send asha'man to deliver warning, retreat to Maradon and hope to hold it until help arrived, but what if Ituralde returns to Arad Doman, as Rand expects will happen? There won't be anyone to stop or slow the trolloc advance until it's too late for Maradon (which would certainly be a prime target for the Shadowspawn forces to blitz and crush)

 

If we're going to see some major cities fall, Maradon doesn't have much going in favor of its survival right now.

 

That "token force" left behind in the borderlands is big enough to stop anything short of the trolloc wars. If Ituralde stays, they should be able to put up at least a bit of a fight.

 

Of course, depending on what orders the trollocs (and other funky shadowspawn) has, they might not even bother taking the cities, but just keep pushing south. After all, the shadows main objective is not to conquer the entire world, so they might act somewhat different than AI troops in a videogame...

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I doubt Maradon will fall, Saldea is the strongest border state and those 50,000 Domani and 100 Asha'man will make the difference. Saldea will be hit before news makes it out of that black hole of despair.

 

Ituralde right now has the only army of any size in Saldaea because the vast majority of the Saldaean army is in Far Madding. The Borderlanders didn't leave behind anything more than a token force to watch over a very quiet Blight. The trollocs sighted gathering along the Saldaean Blight border are sufficient to "overrun" his army -- suggesting hundreds of thousands (or even more -- millions?) are massing there. If Ituralde sticks around, he'd be able to send asha'man to deliver warning, retreat to Maradon and hope to hold it until help arrived, but what if Ituralde returns to Arad Doman, as Rand expects will happen? There won't be anyone to stop or slow the trolloc advance until it's too late for Maradon (which would certainly be a prime target for the Shadowspawn forces to blitz and crush)

 

If we're going to see some major cities fall, Maradon doesn't have much going in favor of its survival right now.

 

That "token force" left behind in the borderlands is big enough to stop anything short of the trolloc wars. If Ituralde stays, they should be able to put up at least a bit of a fight.

 

Of course, depending on what orders the trollocs (and other funky shadowspawn) has, they might not even bother taking the cities, but just keep pushing south. After all, the shadows main objective is not to conquer the entire world, so they might act somewhat different than AI troops in a videogame...

Ah, I forgot the "anything short of the Trolloc wars" quote, although that might have been an overestimation or a way for the Borderlanders to reassure themselves that they weren't really abandoning their posts. We know that a sizeable raid is usually only on the scale of a few hundred trollocs or so at the most (in EoTW Lan compared the single fist of trollocs in Emond's Field to a hot raid). If Ituralde stays, they can at least delay them, but if not, the soldiers left won't do.

 

I would expect the Shadowspawn to go for the Borderland cities. It's common practice during raids for those who can't fight to seek shelter in the fortified cities. Crush the borderland cities, and you brak the backbone of the Borderland nations. Besides, the trollocs will need food.

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Rhuidean - random hordes of silk-clad Sharan women channelers will surge out of the East. They'll stop at Rhuidean and lay it to waste, refill their water-bags at the lake and ensure that the "remnant of a remnant" prophesy is fulfilled.

 

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That "token force" left behind in the borderlands is big enough to stop anything short of the trolloc wars. If Ituralde stays, they should be able to put up at least a bit of a fight.

 

Umm, its the Last Battle? I am sure the DO's forces will make the Trolloc Wars seem laughable or I will be disappointed, surely the full strength of the Blight would be sent in the LB, knowing that its either Win-Lose, if the DO doesnt send millions of Trollocs, it will be kinda disappointing, i mean, it is the LB.

 

So Maradon is dead along with Sheol Arbela and Chachin(sp) but Sheinar will be at least marginally protected by Lan's Malkieri force.

 

 

I would expect the Shadowspawn to go for the Borderland cities. It's common practice during raids for those who can't fight to seek shelter in the fortified cities. Crush the borderland cities, and you brak the backbone of the Borderland nations. Besides, the trollocs will need food.

 

exactly lol. it will serve the Borderlanders right for abandoning their nations to try and 13 AS Rand. Tenobia i hope to the Light will get burned, which is most likely since Min's "broken Crown" viewing of Perrin.

 

Other than the B/L, probably Far Madding, since it would be the easiest to take (The Light forces main strength is Channelers), one can only hope TV gets a bit of a smackdown, however it is unlikely (as with Caemlyn) beacuse it has already been involved in a multiple book "rescue" that destroying it now would waste all that effort. But one can hope... :P

 

 

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I doubt Maradon will fall, Saldea is the strongest border state and those 50,000 Domani and 100 Asha'man will make the difference. Saldea will be hit before news makes it out of that black hole of despair.

 

Ituralde right now has the only army of any size in Saldaea because the vast majority of the Saldaean army is in Far Madding. The Borderlanders didn't leave behind anything more than a token force to watch over a very quiet Blight. The trollocs sighted gathering along the Saldaean Blight border are sufficient to "overrun" his army -- suggesting hundreds of thousands (or even more -- millions?) are massing there. If Ituralde sticks around, he'd be able to send asha'man to deliver warning, retreat to Maradon and hope to hold it until help arrived, but what if Ituralde returns to Arad Doman, as Rand expects will happen? There won't be anyone to stop or slow the trolloc advance until it's too late for Maradon (which would certainly be a prime target for the Shadowspawn forces to blitz and crush)

 

If we're going to see some major cities fall, Maradon doesn't have much going in favor of its survival right now.

Saldea likely left at least 100k men there, Ituralde's 50k and 100 Ahsa'man more than replace the 60k men out of the country.

 

Barid Bel Medar, Lan will be lucky to reach the Shadow's Lance on the border of Kandor and Arafel before the Trollocs sweep south.

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The thing is, this IS win or lose for the DO, there's no point in destroying cities in a way that doesn't help his winning TG. So, to know which cities he would strike, we have to know his ultimate game plan (and I'm pretty sure we'll all be surprised by it in the end). Therefore, I'll refrain from speculating.

 

Also, although it's about as far as possible from a great city, it's interesting to consider the fate of Emond's Field.

 

Lastly, I can't believe Elayne would die. It's too much of an oddity for Min's three women around Rand's pyre not to be the three wives.

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Also, although it's about as far as possible from a great city, it's interesting to consider the fate of Emond's Field.

 

It's got a 20 ft wall and iron plated gates now, but most of the men are gone now so if the Shadow makes an effort it should fall, but I don't see why they would bother.

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No real military reason for this but I assume Tear is done. So much is being made of it being the first city built after the breaking, and it's near invincibility that it just makes sense to me to see it be wiped out at the end of the third age.

Min only saw people dead of starvation. Wouldn't she have mentioned if lots of people were fated for a violent death.

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is it just me or is it kinda weird that ZERO cities have been destroyed by rand or the seanchan or trollocs that we have seen?

 

Shadar Logoth was destroyed by Rand in order to cleanse Siadin it may not have been populated but it was a city. As for "destroyed" its hard to destroy a city sure u can Raze it to the foundations but can you ever truly "destroy" a city as long as its people remain to rebuild. and if u wanna look at it even more in depth can't one say the Two Rivers was "Destroyed"?

 

i wouldnt call the two rivers a major city. especially at the time of its "destruction"  but there have been zero trolloc wars level destructions of cities. with people

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