Who will live/die in TOM and AMOL (spoilers, just to be safe)

[Aquarius]

Graendal ...

 

I'm no theory professional, but I guess there's a loooong thread about wether she's still alive.

- Balefire removes the actions of the very person that is balefired

- Compulsion was removed from that guy

- It's unlikely that Compulsion removed itself or unravels

 

Hence the person who put Compulsion on the toy got balefired. Graendal or someone else ... who knows.

 

 

[Wingendosering]

I have a bad feeling that every major caharacter will survive.  Rand will probably die at some point, but then come back or something (don't really wanna get into my Hinderstap theory here).

 

Perrin has to outlive Bashere to get the Broken Crown.

[Auld Manriva]

Those with a "new" vision of their future, or skills/ideas  will live. Flinn for example, he and Nynaeve will revolutionize "healing". Aludra is another.

 

All the remaining Forsaken are toast. Graendal is not even sparkly bits anymore, thank the bloody light. All she is, is a bad memory.

 

Taim is gone as are any of his lot who don't straighten up and fly right, if any are not dark friends as yet and only horses arses, or scared little fan boys of Taim.

 

The Bashere elders are probably going to go out together as will Tenobia. Clearing a path to the throne for Faile. Yes, Faile not Perrin. He's not Saldean now is he. Question is, what happens to the resurrection of Manetheren as a region (of Andor)  if Perrin splits to Saldea? So maybe just Tenobia bites the dust and "the Faile Report" becomes second in line.

 

Of the Taveren only Rand is up for croaking and unless he gets busy with Avi in ToM, he ain't a goner either.

 

Gobs of Aiel are goners, probably not the Dreamwalkers (Amys should make it anyway), Gaul or Rhuarc.

 

Unless Rand slaps some sense into the Seanchan loads of them are goners too. Tylee; maybe yes maybe no. I feel like the ones we've seen who have some feeling that Randland isn't all bad; Who have some inkling of shaking off their dumb arse superstitions might survive to make them a viable nation in the future. Otherwise they're gonna get run outta town eventually. Why? Because while the rest improve their station using the OP to improve technology etc. they'll still be wanting to live like those a millennia earlier. We've seen some with sense, not Tuon of course but Mat could help there if he can drag her off her high horse.

 

Mo, Thom, Nynaeve, Gawyn (dammit), Galahad (sic), Berelain, Morgase, Talanvor are all set up to make it I think. Tam too maybe, though he may end up as Caddyshacks' warder ;)  .. Am I the only one who felt RJ chuckling up above at that scene?

[Dreamwalker]

Those with a "new" vision of their future, or skills/ideas  will live. Flinn for example, he and Nynaeve will revolutionize "healing". Aludra is another.

 

All the remaining Forsaken are toast. Graendal is not even sparkly bits anymore, thank the bloody light. All she is, is a bad memory.

 

Taim is gone as are any of his lot who don't straighten up and fly right, if any are not dark friends as yet and only horses arses, or scared little fan boys of Taim.

 

The Bashere elders are probably going to go out together as will Tenobia. Clearing a path to the throne for Faile. Yes, Faile not Perrin. He's not Saldean now is he. Question is, what happens to the resurrection of Manetheren as a region (of Andor)  if Perrin splits to Saldea? So maybe just Tenobia bites the dust and "the Faile Report" becomes second in line.

 

Of the Taveren only Rand is up for croaking and unless he gets busy with Avi in ToM, he ain't a goner either.

 

Gobs of Aiel are goners, probably not the Dreamwalkers (Amys should make it anyway), Gaul or Rhuarc.

 

Unless Rand slaps some sense into the Seanchan loads of them are goners too. Kylee; maybe yes maybe no. I feel like the ones we've seen who have some feeling that Randland isn't all bad; Who have some inkling of shaking off their dumb arse superstitions might survive to make them a viable nation in the future. Otherwise they're gonna get run outta town eventually. Why? Because while the rest improve their station using the OP to improve technology etc. they'll still be wanting to live like those a millennia earlier. We've seen some with sense, not Tuon of course but Mat could help there if he can drag her off her high horse.

 

Mo, Thom, Nynaeve, Gawyn (dammit), Galahad (sic), Berelain, Morgase, Talanvor are all set up to make it I think. Tam too maybe, though he may end up as Caddyshacks' warder ;)  .. Am I the only one who felt RJ chuckling up above at that scene?

 

Bashere and Tenobia are both gonna be toast. I agree that the Broken Crown is totally going to Faile, not Perrin, and I don't understand why I've seen so many people thinking otherwise. Faile is the one who is related to royalty, and I doubt that Saldaeans have their title pass to the husband just because someone is married. For example, I never got the impression that if Tenobia married her husband would immediately be the ruler when that other noble was trying to set her up with a guy - it seemed like she'd still be the monarch. Most societies in Randland tend not to be very patriarchal. Sure, Perrin will probably have a very high title out of that (might even be called "king"), I just think that the actual ruler would be Faile due to her blood-relation to Tenobia.

 

We've seen some with sense, not Tuon of course but Mat could help there if he can drag her off her high horse.

 

I think in tGS you could see Tuon starting to come around a little via Mat's influence - she remarks on how she wished he was here, and she thinks on some things that he had told her about Randland and starts to see that a little. Now granted, she's still got a ways to go (what with attacking the WT and all) but I have a feeling that with even the little time she had with Mat she's already well on her way to seeing things more the way they are and less the way the Seanchan want things to be, so I can't wait to see when they get reunited again. (Also the whole dynamic between the two of them is pretty entertaining)

[FarShainMael]

Perrin's title may well be Prince Consort, as Albert was to Victoria, and (I think) Philip is to Elizabeth.

 

(Vikki and Liz are queens of the UK. I mention this because this board goes out to the whole world!)

 

[Mr Ares]

I agree that the Broken Crown is totally going to Faile, not Perrin, and I don't understand why I've seen so many people thinking otherwise.

Because Perrin is the one with a viewing of a broken crown around him. The thinking is that Saldaea would have a joint rule (I believe some other borderland nations do this) whereby the husband and wife rule together. Thus Perrin would not just be the Queen's husband but a king alongside her.

 

Perrin's title may well be Prince Consort, as Albert was to Victoria, and (I think) Philip is to Elizabeth.

 

(Vikki and Liz are queens of the UK. I mention this because this board goes out to the whole world!)

The UK? Never heard of it. Stop making up countries, it doesn't help your case. Actually, in this country a wife holds her husbands title, but a husband doesn't hold his wife, so the wife of a king is automatically a queen, but the husband of a queen gets nothing for it, and only holds a title if granted one - Prince Albert was styled Prince Consort, and the Duke of Edinburgh is styled the Prince Philip, I believe. I'm not sure what would happen in the event of a civil partnership. And considering how much of it Victoria ruled, and Elizabeth still does (she's still queen of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc., and head of the Commonwealth), most of the world should have heard of Queens Victoria and Elizabeth II.

[Auld Manriva]

Liz the One..th actually. The old one never ruled the Scots. Hey.. don't argue with me, take it up with them. Taymist might be one to debate with, but I wouldn't suggest annoying her.

[Mr Ares]

So because Elizabeth I never ruled that particular backwater, we're supposed to all be confused about which Elizabeth is being referred to? Anyway, that whole issue with the Scots was settled a long time ago. Numbering simply follows from the previous highest number of an English, Scottish or British monarch, so if there was another James he would be James VIII.

[FarShainMael]

Now I'm confused...........

 

I was never much good at remembering English/British royalty anyway. I didn't grow up there!

 

[Ashaman Kovan]

 

As much as I want her to, I don't expect Elayne to die, since Aviendha says that she will have sister-wives, as in, more than one.

 

Why would that make you think she isn't going to die?

It's Mins viewing that makes it almost certain she'll live.

[Auld Manriva]

So because Elizabeth I never ruled that particular backwater, we're supposed to all be confused about which Elizabeth is being referred to? Anyway, that whole issue with the Scots was settled a long time ago. Numbering simply follows from the previous highest number of an English, Scottish or British monarch, so if there was another James he would be James VIII.

I beg yer honor's pardon, I should have said Liz I and II (of Scotland and England ... yeah technical, so sue me). And no, I did not expect anyone of your stature to become confused nor anyone else. Far be it from me, merely a recent convert to drinking Arrogant Bastard Ale, to attempt to confuse an obviously huge fan of said nectar. If not then one who should most assuredly try it.  ;D

 

Not that any of this has a whit of pertinence to our thread

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I'm not one who needs mass killings of characters I like in a story to make it enjoyable reading. Maybe I've seen enough reality, that happy or at least not UNhappy endings are more desirable.  

 

 

[Mystica]

we're talking about Liz Taylor, right? RIGHT? She uses too much make up..... *nods*

[Mr Ares]

Now I'm confused...........

 

I was never much good at remembering English/British royalty anyway. I didn't grow up there!

It's pretty simple. James VI of Scotland succeeded Elizabeth I of England to the English throne, thus becoming James I of England. James II of England (who followed Charles II, who followed Charles I (not counting the Cromwells, although they ruled between the execution of Charles I and the restoration fo Charles II), who followed James I) was also James VII of Scotland. So if there is ever another James, he will be James VIII of the United Kingdom, despite England never having a James III-VII. And now you're confused.

 

I beg yer honor's pardon, I should have said Liz I and II (of Scotland and England ... yeah technical, so sue me).

If we're being technical, Elizabeth I was only Queen of England, while Elizabeth II is Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Between the Union of the thrones and the Act of Union we were separate kingdoms, but with the same monarch, after that they were consolidated into one manageable monthly payment country, and one kingdom. Which makes the idea of separate sports teams for England, Scotland, etc. somewhat odd.

 

Not that any of this has a whit of pertinence to our thread

When has that ever stopped anyone before?

 

I'm not one who needs mass killings of characters I like in a story to make it enjoyable reading.

I know people who are actively turned off a work by having main characters die. Which is why I see people brining up lack of deaths as a criticism as being nonsense. Killing people doesn't automatically give you a better story, nor does keeping them alive.

[Sab]

I think all the main two river folk live.  Since we already have clues about some of them after the last battle.  Mat lives (since RJ was going to write another series about him and Tuon), Egwene will be head of the white tower, Perin and Faile, and Ny who Min saw mourning over a guys body which is probably Lan.  Think alot of the second tier heros will bite the dust.

 

There is most likely wise ones serving the shadow, but might not be any clan cheifs that are for the shadow since so few of them and the survival rate for those taking the test is so low.

[Auld Manriva]

Now I'm confused...........

 

I was never much good at remembering English/British royalty anyway. I didn't grow up there![/size

It's pretty simple. James VI of Scotland succeeded Elizabeth I of England to the English throne, thus becoming James I of England. James II of England (who followed Charles II, who followed Charles I (not counting the Cromwells, although they ruled between the execution of Charles I and the restoration fo Charles II), who followed James I) was also James VII of Scotland. So if there is ever another James, he will be James VIII of the United Kingdom, despite England never having a James III-VII. And now you're confused.

 

I beg yer honor's pardon, I should have said Liz I and II (of Scotland and England ... yeah technical, so sue me).

If we're being technical, Elizabeth I was only Queen of England, while Elizabeth II is Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Between the Union of the thrones and the Act of Union we were separate kingdoms, but with the same monarch, after that they were consolidated into one manageable monthly payment country, and one kingdom. Which makes the idea of separate sports teams for England, Scotland, etc. somewhat odd.

 

Not that any of this has a whit of pertinence to our thread

When has that ever stopped anyone before?

 

I'm not one who needs mass killings of characters I like in a story to make it enjoyable reading.

I know people who are actively turned off a work by having main characters die. Which is why I see people brining up lack of deaths as a criticism as being nonsense. Killing people doesn't automatically give you a better story, nor does keeping them alive.

 

Right, that's what I was attempting (albeit poorly) to express. Taymist informed me some time ago that your current monarch is (in the land of kilts at least) referred to or should properly be referred to as Elizabeth I and II. Seems odd to me, but there it is. They ARE a prickly bunch up there when it comes to identity stuff. With reason I reckon.

 

And I agree, killing or not killing characters makes not much difference to me so long as the story is good. If "mains" or even "secondary's" are eliminated, it at least needs to make sense and not be gratuitous. Gratuitous survival isn't so swell either if it requires "the fickle finger of fate" to make surviving some ordeal necessary.

[FarShainMael]

OI!! I married a Scot!!  ;)  :P

 

[Mr Ares]

OI!! I married a Scot!!  ;)  :P

You poor girl.

[FarShainMael]

That'll do, or I'll set Selucia on you..

 

BACK TO TOPIC.. I wonder if we'll lose Thom? I don't think I'd like that at all.

 

[Owayn The Traveller]

Nah can't see it happening. Although he appeared to of died before in the series. I didnt like that at the time. It would be tragic if he died saving Moraine though. Doesnt he answer from the people behind the door (or was it a min viewing) kinda mean that Thom won't die though?

[TheBeerPatriot]

Nah can't see it happening. Although he appeared to of died before in the series. I didnt like that at the time. It would be tragic if he died saving Moraine though. Doesnt he answer from the people behind the door (or was it a min viewing) kinda mean that Thom won't die though?

 

Due to the fact that Thom appeared to have died in EoTW and was brought back in the next book, I don't think he'll be killed off now.  While it's not 100% certainty, it doesn't seem plausible that a character would appear to die, be brought back, only to be killed off for sure later in the series.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Nah can't see it happening. Although he appeared to of died before in the series. I didnt like that at the time. It would be tragic if he died saving Moraine though. Doesnt he answer from the people behind the door (or was it a min viewing) kinda mean that Thom won't die though?

 

Due to the fact that Thom appeared to have died in EoTW and was brought back in the next book, I don't think he'll be killed off now.  While it's not 100% certainty, it doesn't seem plausible that a character would appear to die, be brought back, only to be killed off for sure later in the series.

 

Mmmm that seems like a more coherent version of what I said and I agree with it. I may hire you as a translator

[Sab]

For Rands sake Min, Avied, or ELayne better not die since he is bonded to them as a warder.  Suck to get all the way to the last battle just to have Min fall on her own knife then go crazy and run off and die.

[TheBeerPatriot]

Nah can't see it happening. Although he appeared to of died before in the series. I didnt like that at the time. It would be tragic if he died saving Moraine though. Doesnt he answer from the people behind the door (or was it a min viewing) kinda mean that Thom won't die though?

 

Due to the fact that Thom appeared to have died in EoTW and was brought back in the next book, I don't think he'll be killed off now.  While it's not 100% certainty, it doesn't seem plausible that a character would appear to die, be brought back, only to be killed off for sure later in the series.

 

Mmmm that seems like a more coherent version of what I said and I agree with it. I may hire you as a translator

 

Thanks, I could use the extra $$$ ;)

[TheAngryDruid]

In general, I'd say most of the main characters survive (except Rand), while many 2nd/3rd tier characters bite the dust.

 

First, the obvious:

 

Bad guys: almost all will be toasted.

Forsaken: all gone. Moridin or perhaps Moggy last. Or Cyndane.

Asha'man: Taim will be sweetest.

Black Ajah: Alviarin will be sweetest.

Slayer and Fain must also go.

 

Main Characters:

Die: Rand (+ live again)

Live: Mat, Perrin, Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne, Min, Avi, Mo, Lan, Thom

Wish they'd die: Tuon (but she'll live)

 

2nd Tier Characters:

Die: Cadsuane (Brandon hates her), Dobraine, Bashere

Live: Loial, Byrne, Siuan, Leanne, Morgase, Tallanvor, Logain, Galad, Ituralde, Berelain.

Hope don't die, but fear they might: Gaul, Rhuarc, Amys

Hope they die, but fear they'll live: Gawyn

 

3rd Tier Characters:

Die: Lots of AS and Asha'man. The battle to purge the Black Tower and hunt the remaining BA will be bloody. I hope Flinn survives. I also hope Pevara makes it, and Tarna and Silviana, but I fear the worst. Alanna seems a goner. 

 

Lots of clan chiefs, wise ones, and windfinders will also bite the dust. And lots of leaders among the light (Bashere, Dobraine). Darlin makes it according to Min. Agelmar I think will die, as Lan and Nynaeve will raise Malkier and peace will come to Shienar.

 

Without a doubt, the two I'd most like to see go are Tuon and Gawyn.

 

[Dreamwalker]

Here's the current standings on the poll on this topic I'm having on my blog, with 89 votes so far. You can start to see some consensuses forming on Cadsuane, Fain, Moridin, Noal, Taim, and the Forsaken dying. The one that shocks me is that only 25% think Rand's going to die - though maybe most people took voting for him to mean he would be dead at the end of AMoL (which seems unlikely).