Brandon's Confusion About Cyndane's Strength. (Full Spoilers)

[Lacanos]

A theory contains both by nature. Now let me know if you wish to actually start discussing my arguments.

 

My take is Brandon knows that Lanfear is returning from the Tower of Ghenjei, and that this whole debate about Cyndane's strength is misguided.

 

  Foretellings, Prophecy, and Mat's own thoughts support Lanfear returning.

Yes, but your take is wrong.

[Luckers]

Indeed.

[haloun]

Well, Lews Therin certainly gets around then. Two female characters who would be prepared to fight the DO with him as well as both being held by the Finns. Its true, there's no way that Lanfear can be Cyndane.

 

when you first see a cyndane pov she remembers BEING lanfear, so there goes that strand.

[farthammer]

I can't remember the wording of Cyndanes internal monologue, and was wondering if she remembers being Lanfear in the way Rand 'remembers' being LTT, or the borrowed memories Mat has, or if there is no doubt that it really is her specifically?

[water_seeker]

Well, Lews Therin certainly gets around then. Two female characters who would be prepared to fight the DO with him as well as both being held by the Finns. Its true, there's no way that Lanfear can be Cyndane.

 

when you first see a cyndane pov she remembers BEING lanfear, so there goes that strand.

 

Of course Dida has (to the best of my knowledge) never given a good explanation of how Cyndane's POV doesn't proove that she's Lanfear.  He has only (AFAIK) shrugged it off as a red herring.

 

I can't remember the wording of Cyndanes internal monologue, and was wondering if she remembers being Lanfear in the way Rand 'remembers' being LTT, or the borrowed memories Mat has, or if there is no doubt that it really is her specifically?

 

Her memories are like yours and mine.

[fikkie77]

If Cyndane isn't Lanfear, then who is she if she calls Rand 'Lews Therin', thinks of him like a spurned lover and talks about being with the Finns?

 

We know for sure she is a Forsaken and we know for sure she is a Forsaken from the AoL (by calling Rand 'Lews Therin'). Up to that point, only one Forsaken was unaccounted for: Lanfear.

[Lacanos]

If Cyndane isn't Lanfear, then who is she if she calls Rand 'Lews Therin', thinks of him like a spurned lover and talks about being with the Finns?

 

We know for sure she is a Forsaken and we know for sure she is a Forsaken from the AoL (by calling Rand 'Lews Therin'). Up to that point, only one Forsaken was unaccounted for: Lanfear.

[sarcasm]Nah, she's blatently Ilyena [/sarcasm]

[Luckers]

Nah dude. Cadsuane is Ilyena.

[Shazzai]

Nah dude. Cadsuane is Ilyena.

 

Eww, just ewwwww.

 

I always assumed Cadsuane was one of the Heroes of the Horn.  My guess is a rebirth of Alsbet.

 

I also think that Ilyena's soul got split into 3 somehow and reborn into the women who would form Rand's harem.

[Majsju]

Nah dude. Cadsuane is Ilyena.

 

Eww, just ewwwww.

 

I always assumed Cadsuane was one of the Heroes of the Horn.  My guess is a rebirth of Alsbet.

 

I also think that Ilyena's soul got split into 3 somehow and reborn into the women who would form Rand's harem.

 

You think wrong, souls can not be split.

[JakeBarnes]

I think the level of power returned has to do with the healing.

 

Nynaeve heals Logain -> full power

Nynaeve heals Siuan and Leane -> partial

Flynn heals stilled sisters -> full power

 

So if the opposite power is used to heal stilling then the full strength is returned.  What does the DO have access to?  The True Power.  While the True Power is stronger than either of Saidin or Saidar individually, the two combined are stronger than the True Power.

 

So the DO "healed" Lanfear from being stilled, but it is not an opposite to either power therefore it does not work as well.

that sounds plausible to me. but it seams to me that there might be a difference from being burned out or stilled. if one is burned out then healed they lose some strength but not to much. if one is stilled then healed they lose more strength. it also seams like something like that {if not actually stated in the notes} would be a hard sell with many sources needing to be cited   

 

False!  The DO is obviously female.

 

You think wrong, souls can not be split

 

Um....Voldemort?

 

[Luckers]

Quote from: Majsju

You think wrong, souls can not be split

 

 

Um....Voldemort?

 

Yeah, J K Rowling really needed to do her research. This was clearly ruled out.

[azrael.1289]

 

You think wrong, souls can not be split

 

Um....Voldemort?

 

Lol...Nice one.

JKR needs to do more research as RJ confirmed this can't happen ;D

 

Edit: Damn...Luckers beat me to the joke  :'(

[Cirin]

For some reason, I was always under the impression that the Aelfinn and Eelfinn feed off of you the longer they hold you, and that Cyndane lost some power because of this and Moiraine wouldn't be able to channel at all when they rescued her... although I can't really think of what put this idea in my mind?  I thought they mentioned or hinted at this in the books, but maybe it was just some old theory I saw years ago.  It would kind of make sense, though, since Moiraine's worth is more as an advisor and friend to Rand than her channeling ability, which was far less than Lanfear's to begin with anyway.

Besides, if Thom and Moiraine hook up, it'll make more sense if neither can channel.

 

As for Ilyena, I always figured she was Elayne, and it was about the most direct soul rebirth in the entire series... not only is her name just Ilyena rearranged without the "I," but she even has sun-gold hair and the like.

 

The real question is, who's Lanfear then: Min or Aviendha?  ;) ;D

[Lacanos]

 

 

The real question is, who's Lanfear then: Min or Aviendha?  ;) ;D

I'm guessing Cyndane is.

 

[fikkie77]

For some reason, I was always under the impression that the Aelfinn and Eelfinn feed off of you the longer they hold you, and that Cyndane lost some power because of this and Moiraine wouldn't be able to channel at all when they rescued her... although I can't really think of what put this idea in my mind?  I thought they mentioned or hinted at this in the books, but maybe it was just some old theory I saw years ago.  It would kind of make sense, though, since Moiraine's worth is more as an advisor and friend to Rand than her channeling ability, which was far less than Lanfear's to begin with anyway.

Besides, if Thom and Moiraine hook up, it'll make more sense if neither can channel.

 

As for Ilyena, I always figured she was Elayne, and it was about the most direct soul rebirth in the entire series... not only is her name just Ilyena rearranged without the "I," but she even has sun-gold hair and the like.

 

The real question is, who's Lanfear then: Min or Aviendha?  ;) ;D

Yes, Elayne is probably Ilyena reborn. Lanfear wasn't reborn for the simple fact that she never died at the end of the 2nd Age, but remained alive, trapped behind the Seals.

I always felt that Egwene is some kind of mirror image of Lanfear. She also loved the Dragon, but moved on when things went differently. They share their strength in the OP (though Egwene is weaker) and in TAR.

[DemandredFO]

and ambition, I could definately see Egwene going to the Dark side

[Luckers]

This theory has been disproven. :(

[Cirin]

...the Lanfear reborn thing was a joke, by the way.  I just meant it to say wonder which girl will go batty insane and try to kill them all.  :P  (That was the joke, I don't actually expect them to.)

[lordofsoup]

 

False!  The DO is obviously female.

 

this is the internet pic or it never happened

[Dreamwalker]

...the Lanfear reborn thing was a joke, by the way.  I just meant it to say wonder which girl will go batty insane and try to kill them all.  :P  (That was the joke, I don't actually expect them to.)

 

Luckers meant the theory upon which this entire thread has been predicated has been disproven by Maria (See the new MAFO thread. This - and the Sylvase theory, which I quite liked, btw - got pretty mercilessly just tossed aside). Basically, Maria flat out said that the range of channelers' strengths is larger than we thought and that Siuan and Leane are more than half weaker than they were but are not among the very weakest channelers because the range is larger.

[Luckers]

*nods and sighs before wandering listlessly out of the thread*

[Cirin]

Yeah, I was speaking more specifically to Lacanos and fikkie77.  I got what Luckers meant from reading the interview with Brandon Sanderson where the theory was dismissed out of hand.  :o

[Lacanos]

Yeah, I was speaking more specifically to Lacanos and fikkie77.  I got what Luckers meant from reading the interview with Brandon Sanderson where the theory was dismissed out of hand.  :o

What're you saying to me sorry, I don't follow

[Cirin]

No, it was nothing.  Just that you and fikkie77 had responded to my joke about which one of Rand's three women was supposed to be Lanfear.  I was just mentioning that I had been joking, and didn't actually think any of them were, since Lanfear is still around (or Cyndane is, anyway).