How Will Rand Defeat the Dark One? (Full Spoilers)

[Luckers]

Discuss.

[wotjunkie]

W00T !!!

 

 

i have been thinking on how rand will defeat the Do, there is something of a consensus that rand wont actually destroy the DO but more than likley recreate his prison whole.

 

ok bear with me for a moment, back when the DO prison was opened by Lanfear and Beidamon, the DO was free but unable to destroy the pattern and the world, yet that is exactly what is feared if the DO escapes now.

 

so what has changed?

 

something that pops in my mind is something Fel said "belief and order give strength", could this also apply to the DO, Belief and Chaos give strength?

 

and a comment by Verin "the battle isnt being foughtthe way al'thor thinks".

 

it leads me to suspect that 2 things are needed to ensure victory over the DO

 

1. Rand needs to get his headspace clear which appears to be starting to happen at the end of TGS.

 

2. there needs to be a massive purge of Darkfriends, i suspect that the more DF's there are the stronger the DO gets lets face it hes not collecting them because he enjoys their jokes, so with the killing of each DF the DO becomes weaker its also possible that a channeling DF could be worth maybe 100 non channelers in strength for the DO.

 

the world as it is now as of TGS seems to be prolific with DF's and there would be far more now than there were back when the DO prison was originally open and i think thats what gives him the power to undo the pattern and the world.

 

now feel free to tear my theory to shreds :D

[ed2funy]

Well, we all know that Bela will be the one to -

*coughs*

Good idea, but I don't think the Do is like the Ori, although that would be cool.

 

I think Fain will play a role. His hate for Rand and for the DO will come into it somehow.

[Chance]

LTT said something that made me rethink the final showdown.  He said something to the effect that "brute force won't work".  That, and with all the references to Rand spilling blood on the rocks of Shayol Guol, and his blood washing away the shadow, etc. leads me to now believe in the sacrifice. Min's seeing that Aliva will "help" Rand die, is that Alivia stops whoever, the wonder girls, or anyone else, from stopping Rand open his perma-wounds at the Pit. The Chapter title "Veins of Gold" also adds to this theory. Rand enters the Pit, breaks the final seal and then he breaks his wounds to bleed on the rocks. Rand's blood somehow prohibits the DO from stomping on the world, so the others can form a large circle and re-make his prison. But by re-making the prison they have to leave Rand in the Pit.  I also think Fain will be in the Pit with Rand, and the Aridhol evil with battle with the DO until the next turning of the wheel. Not sure how exactly its going to play out, still thinking on this.

[water_seeker]

I can't see Rand bleeding to death in SG being the way he wins.

 

After reading a couple different threads I have this nightmare image of tWoT ending in some Stargate/Harry Potter twist where the DO loses power when his followers are destroyed and Rands sacrifice protects all his ppl with love so the (now weakened) DO can't touch them.

 

I still say that Rand has to shed his physical body and fight the DO on a different level of existance.

[ed2funy]

I don't think it will be an Ori/ascended battle type thing...

lol...

It is funny to think of it that way though.

 

But we haven't seen of or heard of anything about going to a higher plane of existence in the series.

[water_seeker]

I didn't mean anything like ascending when I said different level of existance.  I simply meant that I see it playing out with Rand dying and his "soul" fights the DO outside of the Pattern, because the DO can't be fought within the pattern.  I also think that after the fight Rand will return to a physical existance...somehow.

[ed2funy]

You mean the whole Rand dies, defeats Do, Nyn/Egw takes him out of TAR thing?

 

Or do you mean like when he fought Ishy in the sky? That would be cool. ;D

[Nethran Thaimal]

Rand's wound.  The Shadow's evil fights Man's evil.  Neither is consumed.  Neither prevails.

 

The Dark One and Fain.  They personify the two evils.  Fain will discover a way to unlock the full potential of his power. Rand will use his hatred of him.  The Dark one will not be defeated the way we think; he will be thrown into an unending battle with another evil, then both, like with what Flinn did to Rand's wound, will be sealed away.  It will be the Last Battle of man against the Shadow.

 

Edit: I need to read before I post.

[Bastor]

First of all we are assuming Rand will win (...hmm?...not too sure about that... xD)

 

Ok let us, for the sake of argument....assume Rand will indeed win.

 

 

1. Rand completely brakes the DO prison and tries to hold him.

2. A huge male/female circle starts rebuilding the fabric of reality that sealed the DO.

3. DO is sealed if they succeed/Completely free if they fail.

 

Rand will need some nice source of power that is pretty huge (I do not mean like a ter'angreal or smth like that) he will need some sort of a container for the True Power ....and a huge one to last through the battle so he does not have to use any other power (since if he does the DO will touch and taint it) OR he might use the TP if he truly can access it without the DO's permission....

 

I am pretty sure that Rand will start losing and then Mordeth will come out from under the rocks and attack but will in the end help Rand even if it is unwillingly. Mordy tossed inside with the DO and weakens him a bit since he will now have two opponents...

 

Still that is just theory assuming he actually has a chance of winning....

[Wantanswers]

Perhaps I am an idiot, but I don’t think the Bore should be sealed again. Living in the World of the Wheel of Time is a life without a future. It don’t make sense to imprison The Great Lord of Dark again for it would only start a new turning of the Wheel. Besides, weaving with a wheel makes a rope.

 

Day and night; light and darkness are warp and woof in the pattern of live. I think the WoT has to be stopped, so the pattern can be woven in a different way. I wonder if the old AS sign gives us a clue:

Must the shadow and the light be linked and balanced?

 

Rand has to learn who and what the Creator and the Dark One are and give them a place aside each other.

 

When sun comes up

The Shadow raises

Stars at night

A Memory of Light

 

May you always find shadow

 

[Sab]

Well RJ could be tricky but can't see all of these books just for in the end having the DO pimp slap Rand and take over.

 

I imagine Rand will karate kid kick the DO in the face.  But yeah Verin was worried becuase she doesn't think Rand understand how he is to fight the DO.  It won't be a brute force using the power type thing since if he got in a channeling fight with the DO Rand would get glown to bits.  Should be intertesting since every surviving Forsaken will be there, and most likely Fain.

 

 

[Auld Manriva]

The DO works by corrupting and eventually destroying the Pattern and supposedly re-making it in his own image. That's a lie used to attract followers. The DO want's oblivion, the opposite of creation.  *these are opinions not fact*

 

The DO works on people by expanding their selfishness, greed, fear, etc. and rewarding them. Much like Pavlov's dogs. We've seen this repeatedly. The Forsaken are simply the MOST selfish of all humanity. Their other "vices" spring from that one great defect.

 

The Pattern needs to be relieved of the DO's touch/taint at the Bore in order for it to be repaired either by itself (its repeatedly said the Pattern "re-weaves") or by those within the Pattern. But it's also said those within and of the Pattern cannot effect it. The DO cannot expand the Bore without help from inside either i've read. BWB, I think. (this seems contradictory, so I'm probably misreading, but I still think the Pattern can repair itself if the DO's touch is removed)

 

Rand is the Champion of the Light.. he's presently corrupted by the DO's touch; the first wound. His fears, feelings of inadequacy, self doubt .. all that have been have been magnified by various means, all orchestrated by the DO. Compounded by the evil from Fain's dagger.

 

The Champion/Rand cannot face the DO with any self doubt. No slight amount of the Dark One's touch. He must realize his strength in the light. Note how the Forsaken all cower when communicating with the DO. TCofL MUST meet the DO as an equal in his own mind. Rand has taken a great step towards that atop Dragonmount. Maybe he'll now realize what he still needs to do. This is possibly where LTT fell short.

 

The Last Battle is WITHIN Rand. The rest is all clean-up and window dressing. And those things are always so, messy ... and interesting.

[Goramier]

I already know how it will end. This is all fact too. And for the record, The Matrix completely copied the ending.

 

Rand will fight Morodin. They will not kill each other though but Rand will find out some hard truths. So then he goes to the DO to talk about stuff. They talk. Well it turns out that all this time Fain is just running amock creating all kinds of havok. Some one has to stop Fain. He will ruin everything. Even the DO is afraid of him now. So Rand draws Fain in. Fain comes.

 

Morodin via DO and the TP plug into Rand. Rand fights Fain and wins but before Mor/DO can unplug themselves, Alivia does something cool but also yet unseen. We are all like oh boy here it comes. Rand commits suicide. He sheeths the sword...into himself. Perhaps some one helps him.

 

When Rand dies, Morodin and the DO die with him as they are all plugged into the TP Matrix. The world cheers. Three women watch his body floating down a river on a pyre. The end.

[Crael123]

I already know how it will end. This is all fact too. And for the record, The Matrix completely copied the ending.

 

Rand will fight Morodin. They will not kill each other though but Rand will find out some hard truths. So then he goes to the DO to talk about stuff. They talk. Well it turns out that all this time Fain is just running amock creating all kinds of havok. Some one has to stop Fain. He will ruin everything. Even the DO is afraid of him now. So Rand draws Fain in. Fain comes.

 

Morodin via DO and the TP plug into Rand. Rand fights Fain and wins but before Mor/DO can unplug themselves, Alivia does something cool but also yet unseen. We are all like oh boy here it comes. Rand commits suicide. He sheeths the sword...into himself. Perhaps some one helps him.

 

When Rand dies, Morodin and the DO die with him as they are all plugged into the TP Matrix. The world cheers. Three women watch his body floating down a river on a pyre. The end.

 

no. that will not happen. that is cheap and total copycating. no.

 

 

 

sorry that was a little rude. I just dislike that theory.

[WWWwombat]

I think the Fain/Gollum similarities have not ended.

[Vulgir]

Obviously Revsovior Dogs ending.

[Nethran Thaimal]

I already know how it will end. This is all fact too. And for the record, The Matrix completely copied the ending.

 

Rand will fight Morodin. They will not kill each other though but Rand will find out some hard truths. So then he goes to the DO to talk about stuff. They talk. Well it turns out that all this time Fain is just running amock creating all kinds of havok. Some one has to stop Fain. He will ruin everything. Even the DO is afraid of him now. So Rand draws Fain in. Fain comes.

 

Morodin via DO and the TP plug into Rand. Rand fights Fain and wins but before Mor/DO can unplug themselves, Alivia does something cool but also yet unseen. We are all like oh boy here it comes. Rand commits suicide. He sheeths the sword...into himself. Perhaps some one helps him.

 

When Rand dies, Morodin and the DO die with him as they are all plugged into the TP Matrix. The world cheers. Three women watch his body floating down a river on a pyre. The end.

 

My favorite part will be when Rand fights Padan Fain after Fain learns how to duplicate himself and attacks in force.  But that's probably next book, since it has to happen before the Trollocs make it into Zion.  I mean Tar Valon.

[Morsker]

Healing Rand's wound heals the Bore through his tie to the land, in the style of the Fisher King legend.

 

There have to be additional circumstances to fulfill prophecies, and just because Healing Rand in a basement somewhere would be terribly boring. So the Healing won't work until the Seals are broken, and in fact the Seals are the only reason the wound is unhealable so far. The Healing may have to take place at Shayol Ghul, either to be possible at all, or through some Pattern level event like when the heroes were summoned in TGH. It may require using the True Power, presumably without permission. (That seems paradoxical, but we already know the TP can heal Taint madness while the OP can't, which is no less odd.) And we know Rand has to die.

 

So I don't offer a full scenario for how this plays out. It's more a schema to build other theories from. The main evidence I see for it is Rand spoiling the food in TGS. That makes his connection to the land extremely powerful, so much more than just a thematic device. If the connection is capable of such large-scale destruction, it ought to be capable of large-scale healing also. We also should ask why the Wheel tied Rand to the land at all, if so far it's only been good for spoiling food!

[Nethran Thaimal]

If healing his wound healed the Bore's hole, then it wouldn't have weakened enough to let out Aginor and Belthamel in book 1 in the first place, because Rand hadn't gotten hurt yet.

[Dakota]

If healing his wound healed the Bore's hole, then it wouldn't have weakened enough to let out Aginor and Belthamel in book 1 in the first place, because Rand hadn't gotten hurt yet.

 

Well, yeah, those two got out, but it was mentioned that they were closest to the edge of the bore, which is why they were so ravaged by age when they got out, whereas the other exited at roughly the same age they were when they were sealed.  You had those two, and Ishamel and his every-forty-year thing.

 

Aside from those three, unless I'm mistaken, we didn't see any of the others out and about until after the battle at Falme.  Aside from the aforementioned three, the first forsakens we heard from were Sammael ruling in Illian and Belial in Tear.  So it's possible that the bore was weakening, but Rand getting his wound is what opened it enough to let the others ou.

[ed2funy]

But, he wasn't declared the Dragon Reborn by the pattern until he fought in the sky!

(just thought of this)...

That is when the connection was made.

His wound in his side is like the Bore.

 

The DR is one with the land.

He was marked and all that good stuff, but the Pattern declared him first. That is when the DR was made one with the land!

 

I have figured it out. :P

 

 

[Nethran Thaimal]

Then what part of the world ceased to exist when he lost his hand?

[Questor]

Well, yeah, those two got out, but it was mentioned that they were closest to the edge of the bore, which is why they were so ravaged by age when they got out, whereas the other exited at roughly the same age they were when they were sealed.  You had those two, and Ishamel and his every-forty-year thing.

 

Aside from those three, unless I'm mistaken, we didn't see any of the others out and about until after the battle at Falme.  Aside from the aforementioned three, the first forsakens we heard from were Sammael ruling in Illian and Belial in Tear.  So it's possible that the bore was weakening, but Rand getting his wound is what opened it enough to let the others ou.

 

What about Lanfear?

 

Anywho, if he is healed then how will his blood be spilled on the rocks of SG? According to prophesy, IIRC, that must happen in order for the Light to win. Healing leaves no mark. While I think that is interesting, I don't think it probable.

[thewalrus777]

Well, yeah, those two got out, but it was mentioned that they were closest to the edge of the bore, which is why they were so ravaged by age when they got out, whereas the other exited at roughly the same age they were when they were sealed.  You had those two, and Ishamel and his every-forty-year thing.

 

Aside from those three, unless I'm mistaken, we didn't see any of the others out and about until after the battle at Falme.  Aside from the aforementioned three, the first forsakens we heard from were Sammael ruling in Illian and Belial in Tear.  So it's possible that the bore was weakening, but Rand getting his wound is what opened it enough to let the others ou.

 

Yeah but whose to say if the wound will be opened or closed when it's finally healed. You can still heal an open wound can't you? Maybe that wound will be opened on the rocks of Shayol Ghuland then healed. However does anyone find it funny how the Pit of Doom is never mentioned in the LB prophecy?

 

What about Lanfear?

 

Anywho, if he is healed then how will his blood be spilled on the rocks of SG? According to prophesy, IIRC, that must happen in order for the Light to win. Healing leaves no mark. While I think that is interesting, I don't think it probable.