Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Hadilmir]

I get that.

By the way, cooking isn't necessarily a sign of delicate taste, it actually increases the nutrition value of meat. That's the main reason that the discovery of fire was such a big deal for our ancestors.

And some animals do have a higher tolerance to spoiled meat than ours. Dogs and cats are the obvious examples. I don't know regarding crops, though. I think there're rotten bananas in what we feed cows with, but I'm not sure.

Please refrain from making things up on the spot. Cooking meat destroys nutrients exponentially as the heat increases. The reason fire was so important is that it can kill bacteria. Prior to refrigeration and bacterial treatments it was the only way to keep meat edible for longer than a few hours. We traded nutrition for storage.

 

That's all I have to say on the matter for now, though I am of the mind that Blightstrain crops were originally fed to trolloc herd animals and now Ishmael is breeding a strain that humans can eat.

[yoniy0]

Please refrain from making things up on the spot.

I was going by something I saw on Discovery (or NG, I don't remember). I've checked again, and apparently I was a little confused - cooking doesn't contributes to the nutrition value of meat, it only increases the calories-intake from eating meat. If you need a reference, this will do: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090213-human-diet-cooking.html

 

Please refrain from leaving offensive comments.

[Hadilmir]

I was going by something I saw on Discovery (or NG, I don't remember). I've checked again, and apparently I was a little confused - cooking doesn't contributes to the nutrition value of meat, it only increases the calories-intake from eating meat. If you need a reference, this will do: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090213-human-diet-cooking.html

 

Please refrain from leaving offensive comments.

Please do some research before countering an argument (and assuming someone has left an offensive comment). Cooking vegetables and starchy foods breaks down starches and heavy proteins, which is good. I never even mentioned that point. We were discussing cooked meat. Cooking meat destroys certain vitamins, leeches minerals, and fragments proteins. For a modern human, the difference is negligible. There are benefits to cooked meats, but that has nothing to do with their nutritional value. Raw meat = More nutritional. That is all I ever stated.

 

Also, if you take offense to me correcting something you said I may have to leave an offensive comment. Lighten up.

 

*Though I will concede you didn't make anything up, you just misremembered something. So, my bad on calling you out on that.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Ok, i am going to do this slowly now to make things clear.

 

Blight= Land corrupted by DO.

 

Crops= Plants made for growing food etc...

 

Blightstrain Crops= Blight + Crops

 

 

Knife of Dreams book tour 24 October 2005 - Tim Kington reporting

 

RJ:  When the Blight receded in The Eye of the World, the plants actually healed (new plants didn't immediately appear from elsewhere).

 

This to show that the plants are sick, not dead, like the spoiled food.

 

I dont see how hard that is, and what I am making up?

 

Do we need a direct reference saying that the earth is round?

 

Edit: No I dont care if the earth is actully round. A figure of speech.

 

Edit 2: I will say no more on the subject, if you still disagree and think im making things up, so be it, I cant say anyhting more

[farthammer]

I am sorry, I think I threw out a hypothetical (blightstrain having anything to do with failing crops in the rest of the world), but that was mostly a half baked idea.  I was trying to find specific information on what was going on there, if that word (blightstrain) has been brought up or if we've seen similar efforts described anywhere.  Everything in that scene seemed to indicate a significant undertaking presumably by Moridin, and he's not a character we see doing anything mundane very often.  So I am being pretty anal over it, you do offer a reasonable explanation, but it's one of those times I think a we don't know yet answer is better.

[BareUpperLip79]

I have a simple series of questions. They're all the same question basically: 'How'd they do that?'

 

1. When Padan Fain first travels through the Ways and meets Machin Shin he's using his Rand-seeking nose to follow the heroes through to Fal Dara. The good guys themselves need an Ogier with specific knowledge to find their way through. Liandrin needs to have written instructions when she uses the Ways in TGH. Fain on the other hand manages to enter a waygate in Cairhein and emerge as intended from a waygate on Toman Head. Presumably he doesn't have an Ogier buddy or written instructions from the Dark so: How did he successfully navigate the Ways?

Two Answer Ideas:  He absorbed Machin Shin's knowledge of the geography of the Ways OR.. the Ways aren't actually that big and he kept trying Waygates until he found the right one (since he's not scared of the Wind).

 

2. Verin touches the poor Ogier who met with Machin Shin and she was able to draw conclusions about the mental state of said Ogier. But this takes place in a stedding where Verin is unable to channel. So how'd she do that?

 

3. A Tinker woman named Leya comes to the mountains with urgent news for Moiraine (In TDR). In some way that she herself doesn't understand she knows where to go. How did Moiraine do that?

 

4. In TDR, Moiraine manages to figure out which Forsaken is running the show in Illian.  How'd she do that?

 

5. How did Moiraine learn balefire?

 

 

Maybe Verin just looked in the poor Ogier's eyes; and I'm willing to accept that Moiraine can do just about anything..  but question 1 is bothering me.  Any ideas anyone?

[Luckers]

1. When Padan Fain first travels through the Ways and meets Machin Shin he's using his Rand-seeking nose to follow the heroes through to Fal Dara. The good guys themselves need an Ogier with specific knowledge to find their way through. Liandrin needs to have written instructions when she uses the Ways in TGH. Fain on the other hand manages to enter a waygate in Cairhein and emerge as intended from a waygate on Toman Head. Presumably he doesn't have an Ogier buddy or written instructions from the Dark so: How did he successfully navigate the Ways?

Two Answer Ideas:  He absorbed Machin Shin's knowledge of the geography of the Ways OR.. the Ways aren't actually that big and he kept trying Waygates until he found the right one (since he's not scared of the Wind).

 

My guess is the first of your answers is correct--we know something of Fain impressed itself on Machin Shin, as it is now able to sense Rand much as Fain could, so I see no reason the reverse is not true.

 

2. Verin touches the poor Ogier who met with Machin Shin and she was able to draw conclusions about the mental state of said Ogier. But this takes place in a stedding where Verin is unable to channel. So how'd she do that?

 

People who have lost their souls feel physically cold. We learn this from Berelain and Annoura when Perrin goes into the Wolf Dream so strongly that he feels like one who has lost his soul--cold no matter how many blankets are applied.

 

Verin felt the Ogier's forehead, felt the chill, and knew him to be one who has lost his soul.

 

3. A Tinker woman named Leya comes to the mountains with urgent news for Moiraine (In TDR). In some way that she herself doesn't understand she knows where to go. How did Moiraine do that?

 

The popular guess is that it was a thing of the One Power--something like a reverse Seeker or a weaker form of the warder bond--enough for her agents to know she needed them, and where to go. The other answer is she somehow aquired many pigeons on the march through Almoth Plain to the Mountains of Mist.

 

We do not know for sure.

 

4. In TDR, Moiraine manages to figure out which Forsaken is running the show in Illian.  How'd she do that?

 

We don't know. Sammael apparently wasn't wearing a disguise, so its possible some remnant piece of information Moiraine stumbled across over the years described him. That scar is pretty distinctive. She recognises Be'lal too, in Tear.

 

5. How did Moiraine learn balefire?

 

We know that people can learn a weave from a description--its how Egwene figures out how to make cuendillar--so my guess is she read a description in Adeleas and Vandene's notes.

 

A common answer to this is that Adeleas or Vandene taught her, and that it was either a secret Green or Brown weave. This is not the case--the Liandrin's group risk their lives several times in using the balefire ter'angreal. If they knew balefire they wouldn't have taken that risk.

 

Additionally it is unlikely either woman taught her. Why would they suddenly admit to knowing a weave that could see them stilled for knowing? Moiraine very specifically avoids letting them know about Rand or the Forsaken being free, so what percieved need would drive them to the education?

[Sharaman]

I have a simple series of questions. They're all the same question basically: 'How'd they do that?'

 

1. When Padan Fain first travels through the Ways and meets Machin Shin he's using his Rand-seeking nose to follow the heroes through to Fal Dara. The good guys themselves need an Ogier with specific knowledge to find their way through. Liandrin needs to have written instructions when she uses the Ways in TGH. Fain on the other hand manages to enter a waygate in Cairhein and emerge as intended from a waygate on Toman Head. Presumably he doesn't have an Ogier buddy or written instructions from the Dark so: How did he successfully navigate the Ways?

Two Answer Ideas:  He absorbed Machin Shin's knowledge of the geography of the Ways OR.. the Ways aren't actually that big and he kept trying Waygates until he found the right one (since he's not scared of the Wind).

 

He also has access to Mordeth's memories from a time when the Ways were still more or clean and being used regularly. This probably means that he can read the instructions as well.

 

2. Verin touches the poor Ogier who met with Machin Shin and she was able to draw conclusions about the mental state of said Ogier. But this takes place in a stedding where Verin is unable to channel. So how'd she do that?

 

Not channelling - explained by RJ as a scene where the lack of soul can be detected more or less by anyone.

See the descriptions when Perrin is too long and too strongly in TAR - lack of soul can apparently be figured out.

 

3. A Tinker woman named Leya comes to the mountains with urgent news for Moiraine (In TDR). In some way that she herself doesn't understand she knows where to go. How did Moiraine do that?

Never clarified.

 

 

4. In TDR, Moiraine manages to figure out which Forsaken is running the show in Illian.  How'd she do that?

 

Never clarified. One possible answer that has been thrown up is that Sammael had a very recognisable scar and Moiraine placed him from that and descriptions she had culled from her studies with the twins (Vandeme-Adeleas). More interestingly, how did identify Be'lal in Tear because she knew very little about him?

 

 

5. How did Moiraine learn balefire?

All AS know of BF - it is forbidden.

She probably worked it out from first principles, givem descriptions in her studies with the twins. Note that other AS (of different Ajahs), notable Cadsuane seem to know it as well. Nynaeve did it instinctively as well (as did Rand).

Moiraine is a talented channeler and a highly intelligent researcher.

 

 

Maybe Verin just looked in the poor Ogier's eyes; and I'm willing to accept that Moiraine can do just about anything..  but question 1 is bothering me.  Any ideas anyone?

 

 

[Val Mickey]

Love auditions !

 

1. He followed them, kept out of sight, saw the Waygate open. (Lan mentions someone following them.)

 

2. She used physical examination, a technique Doctors use till this day! ;D

 

3. Moirane is just awesome. Or she has a diluted Dreaming talent. Or she has a lot of pigeons. Someone should ask Brandon about this.

 

4. Moirane is just awesome. Or she eavesdropped on Sammael, Be'lal, and Rahvin having a pool party. :)

 

5. Moirane is just awesome.

[Demiandre]

Love auditions !

 

1. He followed them, kept out of sight, saw the Waygate open. (Lan mentions someone following them.)

 

2. She used physical examination, a technique Doctors use till this day!

 

3. Moirane is just awesome. Or she has a diluted Dreaming talent. Or she has a lot of pigeons. Someone should ask Brandon about this.

 

4. Moirane is just awesome. Or she eavesdropped on Sammael, Be'lal, and Rahvin having a pool party.

 

5. Moirane is just awesome.

 

How Fain could follow someone while beeing ahead of people, and also not travelling through the Ways?? We are talking of the Cairhien - Toman head trip, not the Caemlyn - Fal Dara one.

 

so those are my personal answers :

 

1 - He had some Trolloc with him who guided him (or Myrrdraal)

 

2 - already answered, I agree with them

 

3 - One of the Blue secret Weave we don't know about, which enables the weaver to make people look for them.

 

4 - Sammael is recognizeable. Be'lal I don't know, though...

 

5 - Something in Adeleas and Vandene's notes makes her think there is something important in those notes. Maybe Balefire... Why only the supergirls would rediscover lost Weaves/Talents/others?

[Val Mickey]

How Fain could follow someone while beeing ahead of people, and also not travelling through the Ways?? We are talking of the Cairhien - Toman head trip, not the Caemlyn - Fal Dara one.

:-[

 

Mordeth knows!

[Demiandre]

Two questions come to  my mind :

 

Does Mordeth knows Ogier language?

 

Did Moiraine know back in tSR.that she would end up with Thom while saying to Supergirls that she surely knows the name of the person she will marry than the girls know who they will?

[Sharaman]

Mordeth would almost certainly know the language in which the Ways direction was written. He lived in a time (Ten nations) when the Ways were in common use before they became dark and tainted.

The Ways were constructed by men (saidin channelers) and not only used by Ogiers though they were a gift to help Ogiers avoid habitations while going from stedding to stedding.

So, the directional symbols would have been somewhat universal.

 

Moiraine's remarks in TSR seems to suggest she does know the face of her husband.

How? We don't know.

She makes this statement before she goes to the Finns for her questions and before she runs the rings at Rhuidean. It's not in her test for the shawl.

IIRC, her Accepted test is not described (it happens 2-3 years before NS).

Maybe she saw his face there?

 

 

 

[Duskfire]

Mordeth would almost certainly know the language in which the Ways direction was written. He lived in a time (Ten nations) when the Ways were in common use before they became dark and tainted.

The Ways were constructed by men (saidin channelers) and not only used by Ogiers though they were a gift to help Ogiers avoid habitations while going from stedding to stedding.

So, the directional symbols would have been somewhat universal.

 

Moiraine's remarks in TSR seems to suggest she does know the face of her husband.

How? We don't know.

She makes this statement before she goes to the Finns for her questions and before she runs the rings at Rhuidean. It's not in her test for the shawl.

IIRC, her Accepted test is not described (it happens 2-3 years before NS).

Maybe she saw his face there?

 

 

 

 

Min could easily have told her in the first book. Moiraine seemed particularly adamant that Thom was still alive despite his apparent death at the hands of the fade.

[Sharaman]

Yes Min is another possibility.

 

[Demiandre]

Mordeth would almost certainly know the language in which the Ways direction was written. He lived in a time (Ten nations) when the Ways were in common use before they became dark and tainted.

The Ways were constructed by men (saidin channelers) and not only used by Ogiers though they were a gift to help Ogiers avoid habitations while going from stedding to stedding.

So, the directional symbols would have been somewhat universal.

 

Moiraine's remarks in TSR seems to suggest she does know the face of her husband.

How? We don't know.

She makes this statement before she goes to the Finns for her questions and before she runs the rings at Rhuidean. It's not in her test for the shawl.

IIRC, her Accepted test is not described (it happens 2-3 years before NS).

Maybe she saw his face there?

 

 

 

 

Min could easily have told her in the first book. Moiraine seemed particularly adamant that Thom was still alive despite his apparent death at the hands of the fade.

 

Very good point...

[yoniy0]

And it was discussed before, perhaps even on this thread. If I recall correctly, I said then - and I believe still - that Min couldn't have just told her she's destined to marry Thom, else she wouldn't say there's a possibility that they would die in the rescue attempt (unless she thinks to ask a 'finn to officiate a quick ceremony...)

[Demiandre]

Some of her Viewing's varry depending on the probability of it arriving. So she tells Rand when meeting him that she say two person marrying and it comes true. Maybe she spoke of them...

 

If I understood correctly, she see how a thread ends up woven in the future of the Pattern. So some are flickering, some stable, some clear, some cryptic. It's his way of saying probable/unprobable. But CAN happen. The exact Aura she saw could have been one like there will be something strong between you two, it's not ending married, but the attempt that will be made is quite an expressive and strong way to prove your attachment to somebody.

 

And maybe some events or discussion between the two of them and Min not seeing Thom or Moiraine at the same time didn't updated the Viewing according to changes made. But I don't think it works that precisely. I think it easier to look at it as probability of her rescue alongside with the survival of Thom far better than all of them dying, or just Moiraine, or Thom. So it's the Third person who is most likely to die.

 

I went faaaaar awayyyyyy....

[Tsunami]

Is there anything out there that explains Ogier Gardeners vs. Randland Ogier?  Do they not suffer from The Longing?  Are the Gardeners the Ogier version of Aiel or are the RL Ogier the Aiel in reverse?  (went from miltaristic to peace loving)

 

Do we know if the two Ogier variants have met?

[Majsju]

Is there anything out there that explains Ogier Gardeners vs. Randland Ogier?  Do they not suffer from The Longing?  Are the Gardeners the Ogier version of Aiel or are the RL Ogier the Aiel in reverse?  (went from miltaristic to peace loving)

 

Do we know if the two Ogier variants have met?

 

There are far more Sedding in Seanchan, so the Ogier there never got separated long enough to develop the Longing.

If they have me? Not likely, though Loial may have seen them when he approached Tuon with Rands request for a meeting. They will meet though...

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, Loial did meet the Gardeners when he went to set up the meeting, he mentioned it somewhere in CoT or KoD.

[mb]

Did Moiraine know back in tSR.that she would end up with Thom while saying to Supergirls that she surely knows the name of the person she will marry than the girls know who they will?

It was actually the face, not necessarily his name.

Exact quote::

I could wager I know the face of the man I will marry better than either of you knows that of your future husband.

 

That scene (and also a previous scene; Eye of World) seem to indicate that she knew that she would marry Thom.

 

Mordeth would almost certainly know the language in which the Ways direction was written. He lived in a time (Ten nations) when the Ways were in common use before they became dark and tainted.

The Ways were constructed by men (saidin channelers) and not only used by Ogiers though they were a gift to help Ogiers avoid habitations while going from stedding to stedding.

So, the directional symbols would have been somewhat universal.

I take the guideposts were originally in the Ogier language.  And a number of them altered to the Trolloc language (probably by Myrddraal).

 

[Barid Bel Medar]

Also, if it was Min's viewing, it did not have to be exactly, "Who she would Marry"

but somehting along the lines of "Thom is in love with you" like her viewing about herself, Aviendha and Elayne, she didnt know she would marry Rand.

 

The same could be said of Moiraine, Min could have had a similar vision to the above, and Moiraine knowing she also fancied Thom, knew that if she got the chance, she would marry him.

 

Thus with the oaths, it isnt a lie. She knew that Thom would be the man she married if she married at all, she ddint actually say she WOULD be married, just that if she did, then it would be thom

 

Note: I assume she is talking about Thom,  but if not, then wherever i state thom, insert random name.

 

Edit: If you want to take the who i WILL marry bit to the extreme, think, at this time, Moiraine did not know that she would be trapped in the ToG, that came at Rhuiedan, so it is is not wrong in her saying that she will marry him.

 

To clarify, she could not know if she will die suddenly, it is like her saying, I will eat in an hours time, which is not a lie, because she fully intends to, and her sudden death does not make it a lie, precisely, beacuase at the time, it was her intention to eat, and she could not account for her sudden death. If that was taken into account, everything would be a lie, because (unless you have seen your death somehow) you could not know if you were going to die before doing something

[Durinax]

will seanchan ogier develop the longing? or will they visit enough to stave off that development

[yoniy0]

And yet Moiraine does say 'marry', and she believes herself better informed on the identity of the man she'll marry than the girls (this is particularly odd since she's aware that Elayne fancies Rand, and Min has undoubtedly shared her viewings with Moiraine. In addition, she herself has made arrangements for Lan to be passed to Nyneave, and every fool could see that the two of them will marry as soon as it will be possible).