Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Morsker]

JakeBarnes, I think it's likeliest that we'll know for sure when Sattele meets Nyneave/Flinn.

 

WoT characters meeting and solving each others' problems?! I know people have accused Brandon of mistakes of varying magnitudes, but surely he'd never go that far.

[Charlz Guybon]

JakeBarnes, I think it's likeliest that we'll know for sure when Sattele meets Nyneave/Flinn.

 

WoT characters meeting and solving each others' problems?! I know people have accused Brandon of mistakes of varying magnitudes, but surely he'd never go that far.

I loled  ;D

[Luckers]

Can you heal burning out?

The traditional answer had been 'No.'

[...]

So, yes 'burning out' can be healed.  But along with my previous statement, the healing would be different.

Actually, regardless of what's written in the books, RJ confirmed that Stilled channelers can still sense the Source, while Burned-out channelers cannot.

Regarding Healing, as we've only seen Stilling (and Gentling) Healed very recently, it's too early to say if Burning-out could be Healed as well. The question has been RAFOed on several occasions (and if memory serves, this one is an on-screen RAFO, i.e. we will eventually FO).

 

Here's an interesting thought. Being stilled or gentled is described in all the glossaries as being done by an Aes Sedai--which means the knife-sharp weave described by Nynaeve. So what you are speaking of when you speak of people who can still sense the source are people who were severed by the knife-sharp weave. Rand 'stilled' Ronaille, Sashelle and Irgain by crushing flows they were holding in fists of spirit, thereby overstressing their ability. For all that he is described to have 'stilled' them because he did it to them, what he did has no resemblance to the the methodology of 'stilling' cited to result in people still being able to sense the Source.

 

Based on descriptions have your ability over-stress and seared out of you has far more in common with burning out than it does with the knife-sharp severing. Indeed, RJ compares the degree of injury done by stilling versus burning out.

 

Kurafire: Is it the difference between a clean cut and a cauterized wound?

RJ: Yes, and if you're burned out, you cannot sense the Source

 

It's the clean cut that leaves you able to sense the Source. Ronaille, Sashelle and Irgaine did not suffer a clean cut--but they were healed just fine.

 

 

[Morsker]

Here's an interesting thought. Being stilled or gentled is described in all the glossaries as being done by an Aes Sedai--which means the knife-sharp weave described by Nynaeve. So what you are speaking of when you speak of people who can still sense the source are people who were severed by the knife-sharp weave. Rand 'stilled' Ronaille, Sashelle and Irgain by crushing flows they were holding in fists of spirit, thereby overstressing their ability. For all that he is described to have 'stilled' them because he did it to them, what he did has no resemblance to the the methodology of 'stilling' cited to result in people still being able to sense the Source.

I only ever hear about the ability to overstress someone else's channeling ability on forums. Is it from the BWB?

 

The problem I have with the scene from the end of LoC is that Rand is viewing everything through some kind of "sixth sense" channeling perception, locked in a box and unable to visualize things the normal way. Crushing a point in fists of spirit could be the same as finely cutting through a larger-dimensional object, just viewed differently.

[yoniy0]

And we should also allow for differences in the methods men and women employ to achieve the same ends.

[Luckers]

And we should also allow for differences in the methods men and women employ to achieve the same ends.

 

Even if we did say this was the male method of stilling someone--which I find problematic. The female method is an adaption of the shield weave, and the male shield weave is much the same as the female, suggesting their stilling weave should be similar--plus, the Age of Legenders named it severing, which sounds very much like the knife sharp shield weave Nynaeve described, and nothing like what Rand did--but even if we did say this was the male method then it is still not the knife sharp weave that is described to result in severing someone from the Source and still leaving them able to sense it. The glossary is clear. Stilling or gentling is done by an Aes Sedai--which means the knife-sharp shield. Robert Jordan was similarily clear--the clean cut method is what results in someone still being able to sense the source.

 

What Rand did is in no way similar to the Aes Sedai method, and cannot be phrased as a clean cut. A cauterization on the other hand...

[Dreamwalker]

And we should also allow for differences in the methods men and women employ to achieve the same ends.

 

Even if we did say this was the male method of stilling someone--which I find problematic. The female method is an adaption of the shield weave, and the male shield weave is much the same as the female, suggesting their stilling weave should be similar--plus, the Age of Legenders named it severing, which sounds very much like the knife sharp shield weave Nynaeve described, and nothing like what Rand did--but even if we did say this was the male method then it is still not the knife sharp weave that is described to result in severing someone from the Source and still leaving them able to sense it. The glossary is clear. Stilling or gentling is done by an Aes Sedai--which means the knife-sharp shield. Robert Jordan was similarily clear--the clean cut method is what results in someone still being able to sense the source.

 

What Rand did is in no way similar to the Aes Sedai method, and cannot be phrased as a clean cut. A cauterization on the other hand...

 

I'm not sure if you meant this to be taken this way, but ... when you keep saying that the stilling where the subject can still sense the source must be done by an AS, you make it sound as if you believe that only a woman can do it - which I have to disagree with. I don't think we've ever found a weave in the books that a woman can do but a man cannot (albeit via a different method because they use saidin instead of saidar).

[Luckers]

I'm not sure if you meant this to be taken this way, but ... when you keep saying that the stilling where the subject can still sense the source must be done by an AS, you make it sound as if you believe that only a woman can do it - which I have to disagree with. I don't think we've ever found a weave in the books that a woman can do but a man cannot (albeit via a different method because they use saidin instead of saidar).

 

No I don't mean that. Men can still--the technique is the point.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Question:  What were the dark streaks in the sky in the "mirror world" that Rand, Hurin, Loiale, and Selene were in?  Was this ever answered?  Just re-reading TGH and was wondering about this.

 

I dont think we actually find out precisely what it is, i cant really remember, but my best guesses would be

1. Something to do with the fact Trollocs have overrun the world and burned stuff and left their marks

2. A result of battles with the OP when (presumeably) the Trollocs invaded and took over the world.

3. Balefire reflections of another world (although I dont see how this could be only that Balefire affects the pattern and may affect ALL "mirror worlds"

[Abschalten]

Question:  What were the dark streaks in the sky in the "mirror world" that Rand, Hurin, Loiale, and Selene were in?  Was this ever answered?  Just re-reading TGH and was wondering about this.

 

This is pure speculation, but I'm pretty sure that the streaks in the sky were some sort of aircraft similar to fighter jets, and they were doing bombing runs. Sounds funny, especially for the genre. But check it: they were in a world where alternate timelines and possibilities ending up in a drastically different outcome. The ground was scorched and seared in stripped patterns, as if they were dropping bombs or napalm or something. And then the description of the UFOs in general (something to the effect of them glinting and leaving streamers behind them) sounds to me like aircraft leaving exhaust behind it. Maybe, somehow, the Seanchan made it out of the Trolloc Wars untouched and achieved advanced technology while the Westlands got annihilated. So now they're doing bombing runs on existing patches of Trollocs or other Shadowspawn in order to wipe them out.

 

I so totally meant to ask Jordan about this exact same subject during his 2005 Knife of Dreams book tour, but I was so excited at meeting the man I completely forgot. My bad for that, otherwise maybe both of us would have better answers. :(

[Morsker]

I also thought they were aircraft. I didn't make the connection to bombing though.

[Luckers]

They do sound awfully like contrails don't they. What would this mean? A group of technologically advanced survivors of Hawkwings fall in that world? A group of technologically advanced people exploring the mirror worlds?

 

I hope this is something the Encyclopaedia answers. I doubt we'll see it play out in the main books.

[Random Man]

They do sound awfully like contrails don't they. What would this mean? A group of technologically advanced survivors of Hawkwings fall in that world? A group of technologically advanced people exploring the mirror worlds?

 

I hope this is something the Encyclopaedia answers. I doubt we'll see it play out in the main books.

 

I don't really think they were contrails, but I'm open to the possibility, and willing to speculate. Here goes:

 

If Hawkwing was defeated by the trolloc hordes in the mirror world, he would never have had the chance to send his son off to Seanchan. Luthair would never have consolidated the continent, and, perhaps most importantly, the a'dam might have never seen widespread use under the command of non-channelers.

 

Without the upheaval brought by Luthair, Seanchan may have been conquered by Seanchan Aes Sedai (who largely struggled against each other for power, at some point one may have gained the upper hand) and Seanchan would have possibly seen a thousand years of Aes Sedai rule, during which a number of leaps in technology could be made.

 

 

[JakeBarnes]

 

Here's an interesting thought. Being stilled or gentled is described in all the glossaries as being done by an Aes Sedai--which means the knife-sharp weave described by Nynaeve. So what you are speaking of when you speak of people who can still sense the source are people who were severed by the knife-sharp weave. Rand 'stilled' Ronaille, Sashelle and Irgain by crushing flows they were holding in fists of spirit, thereby overstressing their ability. For all that he is described to have 'stilled' them because he did it to them, what he did has no resemblance to the the methodology of 'stilling' cited to result in people still being able to sense the Source.

 

Based on descriptions have your ability over-stress and seared out of you has far more in common with burning out than it does with the knife-sharp severing. Indeed, RJ compares the degree of injury done by stilling versus burning out.

 

Kurafire: Is it the difference between a clean cut and a cauterized wound?

RJ: Yes, and if you're burned out, you cannot sense the Source

 

It's the clean cut that leaves you able to sense the Source. Ronaille, Sashelle and Irgaine did not suffer a clean cut--but they were healed just fine.

 

Yea, Luckers,  well Sylvase isn't a Forsaken, and was never meant to be one!!!  ;D

 

Really though, thanks for pulling that quote out and summarizing its meaning.  Although now I am even more curious as to why Cyndane isn't as powerful.

[Luckers]

Yea, Luckers,  well Sylvase isn't a Forsaken, and was never meant to be one!!!

 

That... you...

 

Meanie!

 

Really though, thanks for pulling that quote out and summarizing its meaning.  Although now I am even more curious as to why Cyndane isn't as powerful.

 

Coz she was burned out and healed by a woman.

[Naffy]

 

Really though, thanks for pulling that quote out and summarizing its meaning.  Although now I am even more curious as to why Cyndane isn't as powerful.

 

Coz she was burned out and healed by a woman.

I'd say its because she transmigrated into another body, not as strong in the power (see Osangar for example).

[Sentinel78]

 

Really though, thanks for pulling that quote out and summarizing its meaning.  Although now I am even more curious as to why Cyndane isn't as powerful.

 

Coz she was burned out and healed by a woman.

I'd say its because she transmigrated into another body, not as strong in the power (see Osangar for example).

 

The ability to channel is tied to the soul; not simply the body.  For example, RJ said that the Dragon soul would always be able to channel.  There's a genetic component to channeling, yes, but RJ described it as if the genetic dice are tossed, and if the body is capable of channeling, then a channeling-soul is allocated to the body. It follows that bodies for transmigration would likewise have to satisfy the genetic-channeling component to be a candidate for transmigration of a Forsaken.  The extent of the ability to channel, I would think, lies with the soul and not the body.

 

With regard to

(see Osangar for example)

you seem to be trying to infer he was weaker than Aginor, but I didn't think he was.

[Naffy]

 

Really though, thanks for pulling that quote out and summarizing its meaning.  Although now I am even more curious as to why Cyndane isn't as powerful.

 

Coz she was burned out and healed by a woman.

I'd say its because she transmigrated into another body, not as strong in the power (see Osangar for example).

 

The ability to channel is tied to the soul; not simply the body.  For example, RJ said that the Dragon soul would always be able to channel.  There's a genetic component to channeling, yes, but RJ described it as if the genetic dice are tossed, and if the body is capable of channeling, then a channeling-soul is allocated to the body. It follows that bodies for transmigration would likewise have to satisfy the genetic-channeling component to be a candidate for transmigration of a Forsaken.  The extent of the ability to channel, I would think, lies with the soul and not the body.

 

With regard to

(see Osangar for example)

you seem to be trying to infer he was weaker than Aginor, but I didn't think he was.

Agree that the ability to channel lies with the soul.  I do believe, however, that the STRENGHT of the channeler lies with the body.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but do we not know that Osangar was less powerful than Aginor?

[Sharaman]

We do know that Cyndane must have healed by a woman due to the time factor. She was healed and mind-trapped before moggy arrived at Moridin's doorstep. Moggy escaped before Dumai's Well. The first male healer of stilling learnt how to do only after Dumai's Wells. We also know that women healing women doesn't mean 100 per cent strength recovery.

Is there any evidence at all that Dashiva was weaker than Aginor?

Or Halima than Balthamiel?

 

 

 

[Naffy]

We do know that Cyndane must have healed by a woman due to the time factor. She was healed and mind-trapped before moggy arrived at Moridin's doorstep. Moggy escaped before Dumai's Well. The first male healer of stilling learnt how to do only after Dumai's Wells. We also know that women healing women doesn't mean 100 per cent strength recovery.

Is there any evidence at all that Dashiva was weaker than Aginor?

Or Halima than Balthamiel?

 

 

 

If Lanfear/Cyndane is weaker from healing, why does she have a completely different body?  Are you saying she was stilled, killed, transmigrated, and then healed?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I dont think we have any evidence that says either of them had less strength, I cant recall Dashiva's strength ever being specifically mentioned except he was not as strong as Rand. Aginor was second only Ish. (and weaker that LTT) in the one power, so do we have any evidence to suggest Dashiva was that strong? However, he could have simply been masking his true strength like Mess. so i doubt we will know.

 

However, from his and Halima's POV there is nothing to suggest they were anything but the same strength they were before, and you would think that that would be something they would think about at some point

 

Also, when Mog. and Greandal think about Cynd. they dont think it is Lanfear because of the difference in strength, however they seem to know (or suspect) Aran. Osan. and Moridin, with no mention of the difference in power, so that would suggest it was exclusive to Lanfear/Cynd. which makes the stilling/healed by woman more vaild. Only time will tell I guess.

[Naffy]

I dont think we have any evidence that says either of them had less strength, I cant recall Dashiva's strength ever being specifically mentioned except he was not as strong as Rand. Aginor was second only Ish. (and weaker that LTT) in the one power, so do we have any evidence to suggest Dashiva was that strong? However, he could have simply been masking his true strength like Mess. so i doubt we will know.

 

However, from his and Halima's POV there is nothing to suggest they were anything but the same strength they were before, and you would think that that would be something they would think about at some point

I just looked back and found no mention of decreased strength so you are probably correct.  I guess the  stilled, killed, transmigrated, and then healed theory is more likely.

[Casabamelon]

However, he could have simply been masking his true strength like Mess. so i doubt we will know.

 

Actually, men can't sense a person's inherent strength like women do. They can only tell how much power is being held at the time, so all Dashiva would have to do is not draw as much as he's capable of.

[Cirin]

I still could've sworn I saw something, somewhere that gave me the impression that the Eelfinn fed off your power, especially if you were a channeler, and that it was dangerous to be there too long... same reason I always thought Moiraine wouldn't be able to channel anymore when she comes out... and I don't remember what made me think that.  I just know that I remember thinking it like it was fairly obvious... hmm...

[OptimusPrime]

 

Really though, thanks for pulling that quote out and summarizing its meaning.  Although now I am even more curious as to why Cyndane isn't as powerful.

 

Coz she was burned out and healed by a woman.

I'd say its because she transmigrated into another body, not as strong in the power (see Osangar for example).

 

I wonder about this.

 

The assumption has been there for a long time that you must be of the opposite gender to fully restore someones strength and the only pieces of evidence are Suian and Leanne being weak, and the woman Damer Flynn Healed. Cant remember anything about his patients power level being mentioned though but is been a while.

 

Couple of thoughts that go both ways on this... How do we know anything at all about a man who has been Healed? We never got a PoV from one who was gentled then Healed, nor have we had any sort of hint on Ishamael, Aginor or Balthamel strength-wise in comparison to their post-reincarnation power levels. Given that male and female channelers are similar, but not parralel or opposite in the rules, I wonder if the reduced strength might be something that happens to women only.

 

The other side of it is... how do we know Logain, Moridin, Osan'gar and Aran'gar werent weaker? For all we know they could be slightly weaker and only they could tell. I know nothing has been mentioned in their PoVs, but I dont count that as an outrule.

 

I still could've sworn I saw something, somewhere that gave me the impression that the Eelfinn fed off your power, especially if you were a channeler, and that it was dangerous to be there too long... same reason I always thought Moiraine wouldn't be able to channel anymore when she comes out... and I don't remember what made me think that.  I just know that I remember thinking it like it was fairly obvious... hmm...

 

Interesting thought, I imagine Finnland to be outside the Pattern where things from the Pattern shouldnt go, maybe a channelers strength wanes the longer theyre outside the Pattern? Could explain part of Moridins True Power addiction, could also be loony.

 

And why cant the post window stop jumping up and down and just let me see what Im writing?!?!