Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Hadilmir]

The Forsaken had armies of their own to destroy the cities.  Of course they could've Balefired some cities then realized the consequences and stopped but those stories became legend.

 

I have a question about the Forsaken and having any angreal.  If they were sealed away in the bore, wouldn't the items be sealed with them?

That's the other alternative.

 

For the second part-

1. The forsaken would never trust each other enough to allow everyone to bring their own angreal.

2. Bringing a sa'angreal to Shayol Ghul is probably a bad idea in itself since channeling in it's vicinity gets exponentially painful.

3. What would be the point? That's like a congressman bringing an AK-47 into Congress. Everyone would be fine with it if he had the AK-47 on a battlefield, but in the Capitol building everyone else would team up on him instantly.

[Charlz Guybon]

This has been what has been curious to me in the series.  The the AOL we heard "legends" of the Forsaken wiping out hundreds of thousands of people at a time.  Cities fell at their fury.  Was this simply legend?

Possibly. Though, by Lews Therin's memories most of the tragedies really did happen, so I just assumed that the Forsaken had access to stolen sa'angreal during the War of Power.

Nearly half the Aes Sedai defected to the Dark, so there were hundreds of thousands of Dreadlords (although they were all called Forsaken back then IIRC).Plus all the angreal, sa'angreal and ter'angreal.

 

As for why Messana didn't steal the Sa'angreal from the Tower. Just imagine if she did. It's something she couldn't cover up, the Aes Sedai would find out and thus all the other Forsaken would find out and they would all turn on her immediately even Demandred and Semirhage.  She'd shoot past Rand like a rocket to the top of the assassinate immediately list. Better to steal an angreal from the cache, important enough to help, but not important enough to turn everyone against her. If she really needs to, she can always take it later.

[Hadilmir]

Nearly half the Aes Sedai defected to the Dark, so there were hundreds of thousands of Dreadlords (although they were all called Forsaken back then IIRC).Plus all the angreal, sa'angreal and ter'angreal.

I meant the specific atrocities associated with each of the current Forsaken.

[Fains nose]

Did Moiraine know Verin was Black Ajah?                                            Is Rand tied to the Horn of Valere as he seems to have the same relationship to the wheel as the Heroes of the Horn

[CUBAREY]

Possibly. Though, by Lews Therin's memories most of the tragedies really did happen, so I just assumed that the Forsaken had access to stolen sa'angreal during the War of Power.

 

We also know that the forsaken caused whole cities to be destroyed by balefire (which caused the very fabric of time to begin unraveling thus both sides deciding not to use balefire).

[Random Man]

Possibly. Though, by Lews Therin's memories most of the tragedies really did happen, so I just assumed that the Forsaken had access to stolen sa'angreal during the War of Power.

 

We also know that the forsaken caused whole cities to be destroyed by balefire (which caused the very fabric of time to begin unraveling thus both sides deciding not to use balefire).

We actually don't know that it was the Forsaken who only destroyed these cities with Balefire. Consider Rand's speech to Cadsuane:

TGS, Chapter 23 "A Warp in the Air" p. 359

"I have seen balefire destroy cities," Al'Thor said, eyes growing haunted. "I have seen thousands burned from the Pattern by its purifying flames."

Rand's "purifying flames" remark makes me think that it wasn't just the Shadow who leveled cities with balefire, but that the Light might have also done so to cities so far fallen into the Shadow as to be deemed irretrievable. War is war, after all.

 

BTW, many of these atrocities committed by the Forsaken occurred as a result of their actions while administering conquered territories, i.e. at their orders -- such as ordering entire cities to be fed to the Trollocs, or the ordering of lynching of non-Darkfriends, or so forth. I'm not sure whether any of these mass killings were perpetrated by the Forsaken themselves rather than just at their direction (carried out by others).

[Random Man]

Did Moiraine know Verin was Black Ajah? 

 

Moiraine was certainly suspicious of Verin. She was aware of Verin's lie to Ingtar in TGH when she said "Moiraine sent me." Moiraine refuted this when she became aware of it. "I did not send her. She did that on her own," was the passage if I remember right. She also specifically told Rand to be as suspicious of Verin as of Alviarin in her farewell letter. Alviarin had just sent a letter to Rand in an attempt to draw him into an alliance (which contrasted Elaida's order that none but her treat with him...and, of course, Alviarin was Black), but why bring Verin into this? Obviously Moiraine had her suspicions.

 

Is Rand tied to the Horn of Valere as he seems to have the same relationship to the wheel as the Heroes of the Horn

The Dragon is spun out by the Wheel as it deems necessary, much like the Heroes, but one must think that at TG the Dragon must be living, so he couldn't be called by the Horn as the Heroes are. Unless, of course, he died before TG and was recalled by the Horn.....in which case we're entering the realm of pure speculation. So this relationship is kinda fuzzy. Anyone else have anything to add?

[Fains nose]

Did Moiraine know Verin was Black Ajah? 

 

Moiraine was certainly suspicious of Verin. She was aware of Verin's lie to Ingtar in TGH when she said "Moiraine sent me." Moiraine refuted this when she became aware of it. "I did not send her. She did that on her own," was the passage if I remember right. She also specifically told Rand to be as suspicious of Verin as of Alviarin in her farewell letter. Alviarin had just sent a letter to Rand in an attempt to draw him into an alliance (which contrasted Elaida's order that none but her treat with him...and, of course, Alviarin was Black), but why bring Verin into this? Obviously Moiraine had her suspicions.

 

Is Rand tied to the Horn of Valere as he seems to have the same relationship to the wheel as the Heroes of the Horn

The Dragon is spun out by the Wheel as it deems necessary, much like the Heroes, but one must think that at TG the Dragon must be living, so he couldn't be called by the Horn as the Heroes are. Unless, of course, he died before TG and was recalled by the Horn.....in which case we're entering the realm of pure speculation. So this relationship is kinda fuzzy. Anyone else have anything to add?

Thanks im actually theorising that Rand will be killed before the Last Battle and brought back by the Horn (to live he must die)

[Charlz Guybon]

Do Fades age?

[Fains nose]

Are there female fades?

[Dreamwalker]

Are there female fades?

 

All Myrddraal are male, and they can't reproduce with humans. (See the Myrddraal page on http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/)

[Aquarius]

Thanks im actually theorising that Rand will be killed before the Last Battle and brought back by the Horn (to live he must die)

I can't imagine the state of deep despair the good guys will feel in when TG shows up and Rand died a few days ago...

A wide field, millions of Trollocs, a handfull of soldiers (ok not a handfull, but you see what I mean) ... Mat blows the Horn... "yeah it's TG, bloody ashes, even if Rand's not here we have to do SOMETHING"... and then Rand shows up, and it's a giant fireworks.

[farthammer]

Do Ogier still have one of those talismans of growing for expanding the Ways?  If so why not just make one in the blight to sick that evil fart on the DO

[Aquarius]

Do Ogier still have one of those talismans of growing for expanding the Ways?  If so why not just make one in the blight to sick that evil fart on the DO

I don't understand. Create a Waygate in the Blight and let Mashadar out ??

[Sharaman]

There are Waygates in the Blight anyway. What's the big deal?

[lordofsoup]

Why dident Moridin show up to the cleansing?  If he did I bet the Chosen would have won. 

[Blackhoof]

Probably not, the forsaken made asses of themselves during that, beaten by a few asha'man and aes sedai, especially since they are supposed to be so uber-powerful.

 

Moridin wanted to conceal his identity, and showing up just to lose wouldn't have helped.

 

Do Ogier still have one of those talismans of growing for expanding the Ways?  If so why not just make one in the blight to sick that evil fart on the DO

 

great idea, lets make a portal to the place filled with evil monsters and go through a dimension patrolled by a homicidal entity and if we survive the trip, the trollocs would just slaughter us anyway lol.

 

what would be the point?

 

[farthammer]

Just that they seem they may be on the verge of getting out of the ways, or at least it sounded that way the last time Rand used one.  I really only meant that if it there was the possibility of that happening, the talisman at least may be able to give you some control over where it gets out.  I didn't mean anyone should travel in it.

[Blackhoof]

oh, my mistake, thought you were saying that the ogier should attack the shdaow through the ways.

 

Doesn't seems likely that they still have it or use it, and there arwe gates in the blight already. Besides, the chances of machin shin getting out in the blight is very unlikely.

 

Actually, that might be a good way to kill the DO, throw machin shin (or fain, at that note) at him.

[Fains nose]

Are dobraine Taborwin and breane Taborwin father and daughter?

[Dreamwalker]

Do Ogier still have one of those talismans of growing for expanding the Ways?  If so why not just make one in the blight to sick that evil fart on the DO

 

A lot of people suspect that the talisman of growing is one of the ter'angreal Elayne has in Caemlyn - specifically a blue stone root-like carving that Aviendha identifies as being used for growing something and only requires singing the right song to activate (KoD Ch. 15)

[yoniy0]

Why dident Moridin show up to the cleansing?  If he did I bet the Chosen would have won. 

It's also been suggested that Rand's sickness is somehow related to his connection with Moridin, and that it affects Moridin as well in some way (might be the reason he doesn't channel sai'din at all). If that's the case, he might've been unable to do anything while Rand was channeling through the access key.

[Charlz Guybon]

Are dobraine Taborwin and breane Taborwin father and daughter?

 

I don't think so. More likely some kind of cousin, maybe a younger sister at most I think.

[Faolin]

Hey Guys,

I am new to Dragonmount but been reading WoT for about 8 years or so.

 

I couldn't read all 102 pages of this thread but I did read somewhere in the beginning that Luckers mentioned that Ishy planted the prophecy of Rand kneeling to the Crystal Throne.

 

How do we know this? Maybe I missed something!

 

Thanks

 

;)

[papertiger]

Hey, so apparently it's been theorized that Ishamael tampered with the Essanik Cycle [seanchan version of Prophecies of the Dragon] because Ishy boasted of sending Luthair across the Aryth in the first place and Luthair Paendrag was the one who standardized the prophecies in Seanchan. It's also been pointed out that Seanchan characters, namely Furyk Karede, remark at the lack of the "kneeling to the Crystal Throne" not only in the Karaethon Cycle [Randland version], but also in other versions of the Essanik Cycle that existed beforeLuthair arrived. I don't think there's any concrete evidence--the Essanik Cycle is supposed to be damane Foretellings--but it's a fairly credible conclusion to make.

 

Karede muses on the Essanik Cycle in TPOD, A Time for Iron. Encylcopedia WoT also has a section on the Crystal Throne theory in their Prophecies article:

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/prohecies-of-dragon.html

 

It's a long article, so just use your browser to search for the word "Karede" to find the relevant section.