Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Yosarian]

Also, I would think that if a man who can channel bonds a woman who can channel as his warder, and then he goes insane, she would probably go insane as well.

 

I was about to say that it doesn't work in reverse as neither Alanna, Min, Elayne or Avi are insane. But their's no evidence to suggest that any of them are crazier as a result of the bond.

 

The way the bond usually works, if the Aes Sedi dies, the warder dies, but if the warder dies, the aes sedi just feels sad for a while. I would guess being bonded to a male that can channel and will slowly go insane is probably much more dangerous then bonding one.

 

I think they did mention that if you were linked to a male channeling tainted Sadin with the male version of the a'dam, that the taint would affect you as well.

 

Warders don't automatically die when their AS dies. It's that they usually go into a suicidal rage trying to avenge their AS's death.

It's already been proven that they don't just die and not only that but can also go on to be a Warder for another AS.

It's the whole reason that Moiriane passed Lan's bond onto Myrelle. Myrelle has had success in keeping Warders that lost their AS alive. 2 of her 3 Warders in fact.

 

It's not just the suicidal rage. Very often that's what does it, but they usually die even without that. It doesn't really go into details of how it works; they might just lose the will to live or something.

 

Yes, Myrelle has saved warders before, and saves Lan, but it is stated that that's really, really rare. Most warders die when the Aes Sedi they're bonded to dies, even if they don't die in a suicidal rage.

[yoniy0]

It's not just the suicidal rage. Very often that's what does it, but they usually die even without that. It doesn't really go into details of how it works; they might just lose the will to live or something.

 

Yes, Myrelle has saved warders before, and saves Lan, but it is stated that that's really, really rare. Most warders die when the Aes Sedi they're bonded to dies, even if they don't die in a suicidal rage.

I think you're mistaken. Their rage is what losing the will to live means. They go look for trouble, and eventually even a Warder can't survive the risk they take to avenge their AS.

[Yosarian]

It's not just the suicidal rage. Very often that's what does it, but they usually die even without that. It doesn't really go into details of how it works; they might just lose the will to live or something.

 

Yes, Myrelle has saved warders before, and saves Lan, but it is stated that that's really, really rare. Most warders die when the Aes Sedi they're bonded to dies, even if they don't die in a suicidal rage.

I think you're mistaken. Their rage is what losing the will to live means. They go look for trouble, and eventually even a Warder can't survive the risk they take to avenge their AS.

 

 

At one point, Cadsune specifically stated that if Alanna died, that Rand would die either then or soon afterwards. I don't imagine that he would go into a sucidal rage just because someone he doesn't like all that much died; there is clearly more to it then that.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Yosarian

[Hagazussa]

Just wondering. I'm on book 5. Will fights between channelers in thiis series ever stop being just a race to see who can shield the other first? It's getting really repetitive and boring to read at this point. They have all these powers, and they keep using the most decisive and visually boring one.

 

Granted, this is smart from a haracter perspective, but I think making shielding as easy as it is to do was a mistake on Jordan's part.

 

First of all there are quite a few fights in the books where weaves fly everywhere, the problem is that the magick system in Wheel of Time is so extremely powerful that two reasonably strong channelers hacking it out against one another would be very detrimental to the world around them, also both know that the one that get shielded first is toast, he or she would be helpless so it is more logical to go for that than to toss a fireball at another channeler. Also in my personal opinion the shielding duels are not boring, especially not the serious ones, you can read the character's desperation as they are nearly shielded and then try to shield the other. Now if it was a movie this might be visually not so impressive as all you would see is two people looking intently at one another, but in a book when you can read the characters thoughts as they fight with the other channeler that is not boring to me. Take Rand's fight with Lanfear, he know that if he looses then he will be either killed or be made her pet, and the people around him, the ones he love would die and Lanfear know that if she is shielded that is it, there would be no mercy for a Forsaken, it is an intense scene.

 

I do not think Jordan made an mistake in including shielding, and it is logical that the characters would go for that, it is the most decisive and less messy way to take down another channeler, also allot of the characters in the books are not killers, some are driven to kill but at least in the earlier books they definitely do not want to and for most of them this do not change, shielding someone do not harm that person beyond giving them a bit of a shock so it makes more sense than to take them out with a weave that would kill them. In addition the Aes Sedai characters or at least most of them, do not have the option to even go for something lethal unless their lives are in danger first so shielding is even more logical to them.

 

Now as for Warders and their life expectancy if their Aes Sedai get killed. The way I understand it that life expectancy is about nil. If Warder Joe's Aes Sedai get killed he will first go into a rage for revenge, taking out anyone who was involved in her death, including everyone who get in his way, and if he do not die doing that he will just continue picking fights until he eventually get taken down. Now with Lan he got his bond transferred so there is a good reason why he survived, but if someone just looses their bonded they die it is as simple as that the way I have understood it and it do not matter if the bonded like who they are bonded to or not. Now off course it might be worse if you have a Warder who have been with his Aes Sedai for years and he really care deeply for the woman but the way I understand it even if someone was bonded against their will and hated the one who bonded them like the plague if that bond holder dies they are going to go into that revenge rage and never come out of it, it is part of the magick of the bond, remember it have a rather strong effect on the mind of the bonded it is not just a way to handily know where the other person is and get more strength and vitality.

[yoniy0]

At one point, Cadsune specifically stated that if Alanna died, that Rand would die either then or soon afterwards. I don't imagine that he would go into a sucidal rage just because someone he doesn't like all that much died; there is clearly more to it then that.

No, I really don't think there is. It's not a malady, is a desire for death that can only result in the Warder throwing his life away. Nothing we've ever seen suggest another type of malady that would kill the Warder.

[Mr Ares]

Also... does Team Shadow actually put up a decent fight at the end of this book? :(

In the words of Robert Jordan, Read And Find Out.

 

It's not just the suicidal rage. Very often that's what does it, but they usually die even without that. It doesn't really go into details of how it works; they might just lose the will to live or something.

 

Yes, Myrelle has saved warders before, and saves Lan, but it is stated that that's really, really rare. Most warders die when the Aes Sedi they're bonded to dies, even if they don't die in a suicidal rage.

I think you're mistaken. Their rage is what losing the will to live means. They go look for trouble, and eventually even a Warder can't survive the risk they take to avenge their AS.

At one point, Cadsune specifically stated that if Alanna died, that Rand would die either then or soon afterwards. I don't imagine that he would go into a sucidal rage just because someone he doesn't like all that much died; there is clearly more to it then that.

Whether or not he likes her has nothing to do with it. The death rage is an effect of the bond breaking.

 

At one point, Cadsune specifically stated that if Alanna died, that Rand would die either then or soon afterwards. I don't imagine that he would go into a sucidal rage just because someone he doesn't like all that much died; there is clearly more to it then that.

No, I really don't think there is. It's not a malady, is a desire for death that can only result in the Warder throwing his life away. Nothing we've ever seen suggest another type of malady that would kill the Warder.

Sometimes the Warders drop dead from the shock. Other than that, you're right - we don't know of anything else that would kill the Warder, they just go into a death rage.

[Knivy]

I think of the breaking of the bond as similar to being stilled. The process looks different, but is essentially the same.

 

Get stilled-Lose the will to live

Break the Bond - Desire to die

 

The methods for surviving both are the same, find something to devote your life to.

 

The only difference I see is that rebonding doesnt cure the depression, while being healed of stilling does. But this may have to do with the different person you are bonded to compared to the original bond, while you are being reconnected to the same source.

[Guest The Kinslayer]

Did RJ ever rule out the idea of Taim being Demandred?

[Suttree]

Did RJ ever rule out the idea of Taim being Demandred?

 

Yes...multiple times. Here is one example.

 

Interview: Apr 20th, 2004

TOR Questions of the Week Part I (Verbatim)

Week 4 Question

 

At recent book signing following the release of Crossroads of Twilight, it was reported that you confirmed that the Forsaken Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim, who was introduced to Rand at the beginning of Lord of Chaos. Have you confirmed that Demandred has never posed as the man known as Mazrim Taim, leader of the Black Tower?

Robert Jordan

 

Yes. Demandred has never posed as Mazrim Taim. All right, those of who fell over from the shock of a simple, straightforward answer can get up off the floor now. Sometimes, simple and straightforward can be the most devious of all, as any student of Aes Sedai will tell you.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Suttree

[Finnssss22]

Sometimes the Warders drop dead from the shock. Other than that, you're right - we don't know of anything else that would kill the Warder, they just go into a death rage.

 

And even that has a plausible explanation in that the Warder Bond, while it doesn't actually slow down aging much, it does greatly slow down or repress the effect that aging has on the Warder. A 60 year old Warder losing his Bond will go from feeling like a 25 year old with Bond enhanced stamina to feeling like an actual 60 year without the Bond enhanced stamina in a matter of seconds.

This effect is also why I believe Bryne felt that his reflexs had improved with the Bond. They did because the Bond put him back at his level as a 25 year but it's not because the Bond actually improves them to super human levels.

For example, a 25 year man (or Gawyn for that matter) receiving the Bond would not see any improvement in his reflexs, just the enhanced stamina and enhanced perception.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Finnssss

[Maleshub]

I do not think Taim teaching the weave to Ashaman is innocent. Taim was part of the Shadow's effort to destroy the WT and cause an irreconcilable split between the WT and Rand.

 

The bond weave? That wasn't Taim. Some Ashaman started experimenting with bonding on their wives and somehow tweaked it to discover the compulsion aspect. Per RJ they know more than AS(who never experimented) on the topic...

Interview: Jan 28th, 2003

COT Signing Report - Lady Voldemort (Paraphrased)

Lady Voldemort

 

Is it possible for an Aes Sedai to bond someone Asha'man style?

Robert Jordan

 

Yes, if they learned the weaves. The Asha'man know a lot more about bonding than the Aes Sedai. Some guy figured out how to bond their wives, and then they started concentrating on other things they could do with the bond. The Aes Sedai never experimented, just passed on what they knew.

 

Thanks for the clarification, Suttree

[mb]

Rand's Dragonmount experience caused light to shine around himself and his 3 lovers; and possibly also his other warder bond.

Did that event have any kind of effect with the balefire-caused bond? If so, what?

[Amandera]

We don't see Moridin after that. All the scenes involving him in ToM are pre-VoG in the timeline. So we don't know. Though, Rand's link with Moridin is more similar to that with Mat and Perrin except Rand describes it as being "more real" as if he could almost touch Moridin and vice versa. So likely no sunshine around Moridin.

 

But we have seen Moridin's personality affect Rand more and more as the series progressed because of the link and there are physical effects like Rand's phantom hand. It seems to have only physical effects on Moridin so far like Rand's weariness passing to him and Moridin feeling Rand's pains. Other than that, Moridin seems to stay his cold, emotionless self.

 

One possibility is that that effect may be reversed and we see some "Rand" in Moridin. Or maybe they are now shielded from each other or maybe just Rand from Moridin. We'll have to wait and see.

 

I have ignored all aMoL material in this post but the question might be better suited for the aMoL forum.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Cem Önal

[Finnssss22]

Just a random thought/question.

We have been told that using the True power is not the only way to damage cuendillar.

 

Just thinking out loud but I wonder if opening a gateway on a piece of cuendillar would cut it?

[Luckers]

Just a random thought/question.

We have been told that using the True power is not the only way to damage cuendillar.

 

Just thinking out loud but I wonder if opening a gateway on a piece of cuendillar would cut it?

 

RJ answered this one...

 

Michael Martin

 

 

What happens to a piece of heartstone if a gateway is opened across it?

Robert Jordan

 

 

Heartstone is pushed aside, gateway remains intact. (He appeared fairly amused by this one.)

 

I've speculated in the past that the other way of destroying cuendillar involves reversing the process and turning it back to iron. consider that it is said that using the Power on cuendillar 'makes it stronger'. That seems odd, given its indestructable. My guess is that what using the Power on cuendillar actually does is make in increasingly harder to reverse the process of making it cuendillar.

[herid]

Just a random thought/question.

We have been told that using the True power is not the only way to damage cuendillar.

I believe that the second method of destroying cuendillar (perhaps in the way Luckers suggests) was used to destroy the first seal in tEoTW.

Edited November 1, 2012 by herid

[yoniy0]

I thought it was settled, that the second way Brandon referred to was simply the unraveling of the Pattern (that is, the way every Seal we've seen broken was); still an effect of the DO, just not TP in the strict sense.

[Whizbang]

I would imagine throwing it into a black hole, or even a star, would do the trick.

[herid]

I thought it was settled, that the second way Brandon referred to was simply the unraveling of the Pattern (that is, the way every Seal we've seen broken was); still an effect of the DO, just not TP in the strict sense.

really?! I've never heard about this. Did BS say something new on the subject? I must say I really don't like this explanation. Sounds like cheating to me. When I asked him about it at a signing last year he basically RAFOed the question. It's been a long time but as I recall he said something to the effect that there is a specific method to do this but it's very hard to figure out.

[Barid Bel Medar]

FORKROOT

If cuendillar is brought into Tel'aran'rhiod, can it be destroyed in a nightmare (the same way Perrin destroyed the dreamspike)?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

If you were strong enough in Tel'aran'rhiod, you could probably force it to break, but it would remanifest itself pretty quickly. (He compared it to how Perrin was able to force Hopper back together for a moment, but no more—it snapped back to "reality" pretty fast.) RJ was pretty strong on this point—it's really, really hard to destroy the stuff. Even an opening gateway wouldn't do it—either the edge would push the cuendillar object out of the way, or the object would block the gateway from opening or closing. (You could actually block a gateway open by sticking a piece of cuendillar in it.) RJ was firm: there are only two ways for cuendillar to be destroyed: the Pattern unraveling, and... one other thing. (From the way he said "one other thing" I think we'll be learning about it in A Memory of Light. He enjoyed that question too.)

 

FOOTNOTE

Brandon said in another interview that the second way to destroy cuendillar is with the True Power.

[herid]

thanks. this sound pretty confusing though. What I asked him exactly was this (I did write that down beforehand):

 

You said that there are two methods of destroying cuendillar. One is using the TP. Is it possible to figure out the second method from the books?

 

He said something to the effect that there is indeed a second method but it's very tricky and would be very hard to figure out from the books.

I wish I recorded the answer more carefully but It's just that I took his answer to be pretty much a RAFO so I didn't even post about it. This was at the book signing at the Polaris con in Toronto in July 2011.

 

I find this somewhat hard to square with the quotes in the interview database. What it sounds like to me is that he may have been referring to the same method (as TP detroys the pattern) in both of those interviews.

Edited November 1, 2012 by herid

[Barid Bel Medar]

I agree, I think whoever added the footnote was mistaken.

[Maleshub]

Is Luc's patron in WH Taim?

[herid]

@Theodril That's a very plausible theory (I believe it is correct myself) but we don't know for certain. It might be revealed in AMOL - we'll see.

Edited November 2, 2012 by herid

[Maleshub]

@Theodril That's a very plausible theory (I believe it is correct myself) but we don't know for certain. It might be revealed in AMOL - we'll see.

 

Thanks, Herid. I didn't mean to compose the question with the implication that it is a theory. But Taim's name came to mind after I read the scene. Are there other theories on who that patron might be?