Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[FarShainMael]

PS to Chel: How many eyes have you got?? (This may seem nonsense to you if you haven't read any Humanity's Fire.)

 

Haven't read it and haven't a clue what you're talking about.

But now I'm curious! What do ya mean and does this somehow answer my question?

 

'Chel' is a character in a trilogy by Michael Cobley called Humanity's Fire. He's an alien, of a race called the Uvovo, and has gone through a mystical ritual which has provided him with four extra eyes, which can see the past, the future, and the world of the spirit.

 

Sorry, it was a bit of a sideways comment, prompted because we're discussing what you can read from someone's eyes.

 

Try the quiz, if you haven't already, 'cos that's more relevant!

Edited July 7, 2012 by FarShainMael

[dhammett11]

PS to Chel: How many eyes have you got?? (This may seem nonsense to you if you haven't read any Humanity's Fire.)

 

Haven't read it and haven't a clue what you're talking about.

But now I'm curious! What do ya mean and does this somehow answer my question?

 

'Chel' is a character in a trilogy by Michael Cobley called Humanity's Fire. He's an alien, of a race called the Uvovo, and has gone through a mystical ritual which has provided him with four extra eyes, which can see the past, the future, and the world of the spirit.

 

Sorry, it was a bit of a sideways comment, prompted because we're discussing what you can read from someone's eyes.

 

Try the quiz, if you haven't already, 'cos that's more relevant!

 

 

What is that Chel's last name? Mine's Vanin.

[A. Pseudonym]

The Dragon was Lews Therin until he died. Then he was Rand for approx 20 years until for some reason, possibly the Taint, he began to remember his past life. Rand is Lews Therin by nature, but without the memories; his nature has been moulded by and added to by his upbringing in the Two Rivers. This is what a personality is - both nature and nurture.

The problem was that he was thought to hate and fear his past life and when he started to remember it he wouldn't accept it... so he dissociated himself from the memories through constructing the voice of Lews Therin. He could then console himself by believing that it wasn't him who killed Ilyena, but the voice in his head.

What happened in VoG is that he, among other things, reconciled with himself and accepted the memories of Lews Therin as his own.

But this still leaves us with the post-VoG Rand being an amalgamation of both Lews Therin and the Rand that Tam raised in the Two Rivers. They are distinct at least up until tEotW. He's an amalgamation now because the memories he gained and accepted as his own changed him from the old Two Rivers Rand, into Cuendillar Rand and eventually Rand Sedai.

[Suttree]

I also think that was a Brandonism, though probably for different reasons. Terez and I hold intrinsically divergent postions when it comes to the question of LTT and Rand.

 

IIRC you were in the real'er camp with a twist thrown in? Those were some epic debates...

[FarShainMael]

PS to Chel: How many eyes have you got?? (This may seem nonsense to you if you haven't read any Humanity's Fire.)

 

Haven't read it and haven't a clue what you're talking about.

But now I'm curious! What do ya mean and does this somehow answer my question?

 

'Chel' is a character in a trilogy by Michael Cobley called Humanity's Fire. He's an alien, of a race called the Uvovo, and has gone through a mystical ritual which has provided him with four extra eyes, which can see the past, the future, and the world of the spirit.

 

Sorry, it was a bit of a sideways comment, prompted because we're discussing what you can read from someone's eyes.

 

Try the quiz, if you haven't already, 'cos that's more relevant!

 

 

What is that Chel's last name? Mine's Vanin.

 

His full name is Listener Cheluvahar. But he's not a poacher

[Maleshub]

I may be him now, but he was always me as well. I was always him. I'm not going to change just because I remember--I was the same. I'm me. And I always have been me.

[...]

And yes, he made mistakes. I made mistakes. I grew arrogant, desperate. But there's a difference this time. A great one [...] This time, I was raised better.

 

One of the most bloody confusing conversations I've read in WoT. Blood and bloody ashes, that was too philosophical. I was lost. Another flaming issue is Rand's bloody ancient eyes. When LTT was fully integrated in his flaming mind, his bloody eyes changed.

 

It's not philosophical, its some on meth having an existential crisis. All the right words are there, it just doesn't mean anything.

 

Sorry, Luckers! But I don't understand your post.

[Luckers]

I also think that was a Brandonism, though probably for different reasons. Terez and I hold intrinsically divergent postions when it comes to the question of LTT and Rand.

 

IIRC you were in the real'er camp with a twist thrown in? Those were some epic debates...

 

I'm the proponant of the Real Madness theory. I.e. that the manifestation of Lews Therin is really Lews Therin's personality, but that the manifestation is a result of the Taint (the manifestation of a real personality being a form of madness in Randland due to its detsabalising influence on a persons' psyche (as per Semirhage)).

 

I'm also, you know, right, the Theorylander bullied-and-paid-for consensus nonwithstanding.

 

I may be him now, but he was always me as well. I was always him. I'm not going to change just because I remember--I was the same. I'm me. And I always have been me.

[...]

And yes, he made mistakes. I made mistakes. I grew arrogant, desperate. But there's a difference this time. A great one [...] This time, I was raised better.

 

One of the most bloody confusing conversations I've read in WoT. Blood and bloody ashes, that was too philosophical. I was lost. Another flaming issue is Rand's bloody ancient eyes. When LTT was fully integrated in his flaming mind, his bloody eyes changed.

 

It's not philosophical, its some on meth having an existential crisis. All the right words are there, it just doesn't mean anything.

 

Sorry, Luckers! But I don't understand your post.

 

If it helps I meant to say 'someone on meth' not 'some on'

[Maleshub]

I may be him now, but he was always me as well. I was always him. I'm not going to change just because I remember--I was the same. I'm me. And I always have been me.

[...]

And yes, he made mistakes. I made mistakes. I grew arrogant, desperate. But there's a difference this time. A great one [...] This time, I was raised better.

 

One of the most bloody confusing conversations I've read in WoT. Blood and bloody ashes, that was too philosophical. I was lost. Another flaming issue is Rand's bloody ancient eyes. When LTT was fully integrated in his flaming mind, his bloody eyes changed.

 

It's not philosophical, its some on meth having an existential crisis. All the right words are there, it just doesn't mean anything.

 

Sorry, Luckers! But I don't understand your post.

 

If it helps I meant to say 'someone on meth' not 'some on'

 

Thanks for the clarification. My main thought reading that bit was, "Poor Min!"

[Sharaman]

Any mentions in BWB or elsewhere of the Forsaken having children?

[Terez]

The RJ quote is not contradictory at all. He's speaking specifically about the perspective of people in the world;

How do you figure, regarding the first one? He seems to say quite clearly that LTT's personality wasn't reincarnated in Rand.

 

That does not mean that the base soul is not the same person. It just means that the base soul is shaped differently in each life through different experiences. Lots of people change due to different experiences; that doesn't make them a different person than they were before. It's simply a matter of degree. Somewhere in between is an amnesiac.

[Terez]

I also think that was a Brandonism, though probably for different reasons. Terez and I hold intrinsically divergent postions when it comes to the question of LTT and Rand.

 

IIRC you were in the real'er camp with a twist thrown in? Those were some epic debates...

 

I'm the proponant of the Real Madness theory. I.e. that the manifestation of Lews Therin is really Lews Therin's personality, but that the manifestation is a result of the Taint (the manifestation of a real personality being a form of madness in Randland due to its detsabalising influence on a persons' psyche (as per Semirhage)).

 

That's just an overly convoluted way of saying what we've been saying all along, but which happens to ignore the fact that the Voice didn't resemble Lews Therin's real personality at all.

 

I'm also, you know, right, the Theorylander bullied-and-paid-for consensus nonwithstanding.

 

What??

Edited July 8, 2012 by Terez

[Sephie913]

Any mentions in BWB or elsewhere of the Forsaken having children?

 

Good question! That would be interesting, wouldn't it?

 

I don't remember that it specifically states one way or another, but I imagine that in AoL, no one reproduces unless they want to(with advanced science and OP use being what it is). If the Forsaken are anything, they're selfish. Since parenting is an unselfish act involving sacrifice and dedication, I don't think any of the Forsaken would have even considered it.

[Durinax]

from tGH darkfriend social

"a glimpse of golden lion-head spurs, worn only by high officers in the Andoran Queen's Guards."

 

do we know who this is?

 

my first thought was Gareth, because we know of no one else who would be of sufficient rank at the time

[MasterAblar]

from tGH darkfriend social

"a glimpse of golden lion-head spurs, worn only by high officers in the Andoran Queen's Guards."

 

do we know who this is?

 

my first thought was Gareth, because we know of no one else who would be of sufficient rank at the time

 

Considering how badly Morgase has been screwed over by the pattern so far, it will be Tallanvor.

[Durinax]

from tGH darkfriend social

"a glimpse of golden lion-head spurs, worn only by high officers in the Andoran Queen's Guards."

 

do we know who this is?

 

my first thought was Gareth, because we know of no one else who would be of sufficient rank at the time

 

Considering how badly Morgase has been screwed over by the pattern so far, it will be Tallanvor.

I dont think that Lieutenant would be high enough for the spurs.... Have we heard of any calvalry captain from Andor

[Terez]

It was probably Daved Hanlon a.k.a. Doilon Mellar, who became captain of Rahvin's White Lions.

[Linda]

I agree, Terez.

[Durinax]

It was probably Daved Hanlon a.k.a. Doilon Mellar, who became captain of Rahvin's White Lions.

I thought he wasn't in the Andoran military until after Rahvin came to power, or at least wasnt a ranking officer. What book do we first see him in anyways?

[Terez]

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/d/daved_hanlon.html

[Durinax]

http://encyclopaedia...ved_hanlon.html

thank you Terez, once again you come to the rescue

 

 

EDIT:

 

by that encyclopedia I dont think it can be Hanlon, he was only a white lion as far as I can tell, and the golden spurs incident was long before Rahvin set up camp in andor

Edited July 9, 2012 by Durinax

[Terez]

It doesn't matter; we have no reason to believe he wasn't in the Guard before then. The only other possibility we know of is Lord Comar, but he supposedly left the Guard because he got caught cheating at dice, and we don't know when that happened.

[Durinax]

It doesn't matter; we have no reason to believe he wasn't in the Guard before then. The only other possibility we know of is Lord Comar, but he supposedly left the Guard because he got caught cheating at dice, and we don't know when that happened.

I just find it odd we can identify almost everyone Bors saw in that scene easily but this one is unknown to me

[Terez]

I don't see why you would find that odd. There are others that aren't recognizable, like the Illianer noblewoman. We haven't met any of those.

[mb]

Any mentions in BWB or elsewhere of the Forsaken having children?

Good question! That would be interesting, wouldn't it?

 

I don't remember that it specifically states one way or another, but I imagine that in AoL, no one reproduces unless they want to(with advanced science and OP use being what it is). If the Forsaken are anything, they're selfish. Since parenting is an unselfish act involving sacrifice and dedication, I don't think any of the Forsaken would have even considered it.

Actually, even parents can be selfish.

Not sure about the ones that want to being the only ones that reproduced in Age of Legends.

 

I guess the poster was asking whether any of the Forsaken gave birth to children. There might have been some chance for each of them; either before or after they turned to the Shadow.

Slight chance of any of them raising the children (after turning to the Shadow). Though Mesaana might have been most likely of the females; and Ishamael of the males.

Edited July 10, 2012 by mb

[Durinax]

Any mentions in BWB or elsewhere of the Forsaken having children?

Good question! That would be interesting, wouldn't it?

 

I don't remember that it specifically states one way or another, but I imagine that in AoL, no one reproduces unless they want to(with advanced science and OP use being what it is). If the Forsaken are anything, they're selfish. Since parenting is an unselfish act involving sacrifice and dedication, I don't think any of the Forsaken would have even considered it.

Actually, even parents can be selfish.

Not sure about the ones that want to being the only ones that reproduced in Age of Legends.

 

I guess the poster was asking whether any of the Forsaken gave birth to children. There might have been some chance for each of them; either before they turned to the Shadow.

Slight chance of any of them raising the children (after turning to the Shadow). Tough Mesaana might have been most likely of the females; and Ishamael of the males.

balthamel is most likely of the male, he was the womanizer, accidents do happen.