Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Sid]

Does anyone know what book and chapter Ishmael/Moridin's musing about the Age of Legend game similar to stones but with a key piece occurs? I can't recall the name of the game or the piece, just that control of the key piece is vital to winning the game and there are many strategies to winning. Thanks

TPoD Prologue Deceptive Appearances

The game is sha'rah and the key piece is called the Fisher. A very interesting PoV.

[Terrapin]

Thanks Sid. I wanted to see if Moridin's POV fit a theme I've been thinking about. Hopefully so.

[Hopebringer]

beware: ToM Spoiler question

 

I could remember this wrong:

 

 

When Perrin forges his new hammer, he gets help by an Asha'man weaving flows inside that weapon. I do remeber that that Asha'man told some Aes'Sedai to bond with him, to aid him in weaving.

 

Isn't this a violation of the third oath? How can they do this?

 

 

Edit: Found solution in another thread

 

 

Other thread said that it was Wise Ones, not Aes Sedai who helped form the circle

 

Edited May 3, 2011 by Hopebringer

[Guest PiotrekS]

In EotW, chapter "The web tightens", page 613 (Orbit paperback, 2002), when Rand is standing before Morgase and Elaida, the Aes Sedai says:

"What chance this?" She said. "Today the unbeliever is brought into Caemlyn"

 

Why did she call Logain "the unbeliever"? I don't think it appeared anywhere else in the books...

 

That's something I noticed. Put it down to early bookism.

 

Thanks Feral!

 

This is the answer I dreaded though. Awful lot of these in EotW...

[Feral]

Some LoD questions...

 

In chapter 26 Connecting Lines, Rand is talking to Elenia (trying to discover if he's related to Elayne I think) and she starts rambling about rulers who tried to be High King/Queen after Hawkwind and mentions an Esmara Getares who "gained considerable ground before she tried to conquer Andor and spent the last 12 years of her life as a guest of Queen Telaisien. Esmara was assassinated in the end, though there is no record of why anyone would want her dead once Telaisien broke her power."

 

I was just wondering if there's any possible significance to this? I get very suspicious when RJ includes seemingly throw-away bits of information that don't appear to be of relevence...

 

In chapter 31 Red Wax, Asunawa is talking to Saren, a questioner who led Morgase past the hangings of Paitr and his uncle who were planning to help her. Saren says that "I'm told they were chanting some catechism to the Shadow when Trom broke down the door."

 

Now isn't Trom one of Galad's friends who we meet in KoD (I think)? If so then I take it he's fairly trustworthy so does that mean these two really were Darkfriends? Also I seem to remember one of the Darkfriends Rand and Mat meet in EotW being called Paitr? Are they the same person?

[herid]

Perrin might have been mentioned like a few paragraphs before, but Rand had been talking quite a bit after this before the colours struck. Maybe there was a severe delayed reaction when the colours first started? Suppose that's the most likely explanation.

I made a guess on this about five years ago and I haven't seen an alternate option that makes more sense yet. Anyway, I figure it was because the scene with Berelain was staged so that she could secretly sneak off with Perrin to go after Masema, which is revealed a few chapters later. This made Rand think (indirectly) of Perrin, and he didn't really understand the colors at that point so he didn't make the connection.

That would explain it but it doesn't seem to be the case based on the full context of the conversation. It's pretty clear that Rand's original order to Berelain was to return to Mayene and he only changed it after she complained. This did not looked staged as the whole thing is told from Rand's POV and looks quite straightforward. He is genuinely puzzled by her reaction which would not be the case if the scene was staged.

“What is the meaning of this, my Lord Dragon?” she demanded, brandishing the letter he had had delivered to her this morning. She stalked across the floor to shake it under his nose. “Why am I to return to Mayene? I have governed well here in your name, and you know it. I could not stop Colavaere having herself crowned, but at least I stopped her changing the laws you made. Why am I to be sent away? And why am I told by letter? Not to my face. By letter! Thanked for my services and dismissed like a clerk who’s done collecting the taxes!”

 

....

 

Rand stared. Why was she struggling so hard to keep a difficult job that had offered few thanks from Cairhienin even before some began wanting to kill her? She was a ruler, used to dealing with rulers and embassies, not street thugs and knives in the dark. Warm honey or no warm honey, it was not for any desire to stay near Rand al’Thor. She had . . . well, offered herself to him . . . once, but the hard fact was that Mayene was a small country, and Berelain used her beauty as a man would a sword, to keep her land from being swallowed by its more powerful neighbor, Tear. And there, simple as that, he had it. “Berelain, I don’t know what else I can do to guarantee Mayene for you, but I will write out any—” Colors swirled so strongly in his head that his tongue froze. Lews Therin cackled. A woman who knows the danger and isn’t afraid is a treasure only a madman would spurn.

 

“Guarantees.” Bleakness engulfed honey, and anger bubbled again, cold this time. Annoura plucked at Berelain’s sleeve, but she paid the Aes Sedai no heed. “While I sit in Mayene with your guarantees, others will serve you. They will ask then rewards, and the service I did here will be faded and old, while theirs is bright and new. If the High Lord Weiramon gives you Illian and asks Mayene in return, what will you say? If he gives you Murandy, and Altara, and everything clear to the Aryth Ocean?”

 

“Will you serve if it still means leaving?” he asked quietly. “You will be out of my sight, but not out of my mind.” Lews Therin laughed again, in such a way that Rand nearly blushed. He enjoyed looking, but sometimes the things Lews Therin thought . . .

Edited May 3, 2011 by herid

[David Selig]

Now isn't Trom one of Galad's friends who we meet in KoD (I think)? If so then I take it he's fairly trustworthy so does that mean these two really were Darkfriends? Also I seem to remember one of the Darkfriends Rand and Mat meet in EotW being called Paitr? Are they the same person?

Yes, that's the same guy and they were really Darkfriends. That's probably the only time in the whole series when the Whitecloacks caught real Darkfriends. :)

[yoniy0]

Now isn't Trom one of Galad's friends who we meet in KoD (I think)? If so then I take it he's fairly trustworthy so does that mean these two really were Darkfriends? Also I seem to remember one of the Darkfriends Rand and Mat meet in EotW being called Paitr? Are they the same person?

Yes, that's the same guy and they were really Darkfriends. That's probably the only time in the whole series when the Whitecloacks caught real Darkfriends. :)

Unless you have some other evidence, I don't think we can say that with any degree of certainty. It might well have been a Questioneer assigned to Trom (who is, after all, one of the Lords Captain) that told Saren about it. Or Saren might be lying.

[Sid]

Trom was actually hanging out with Galad in Sienda way back in TFOH. I honestly can't remember whether he was a Lord Captain yet in LoC...

 

Anyway, I think that David Selig is correct about both things he said. And btw it took me several re-reads before I connected Paitr from TEotW and Paitr from LoC

[Mulk]

yoniy0 is correct, we've little other evidence. However, given that he WAS demonstrably a Darkfriend in TEOTW, and given that we've seen only two Darkfriends turn out to be good guys in the entire series, I tend to think that they did actually catch him doing that. Think about it: Morgase, Queen of Andor, in debt to Darkfriends. Surely someone on the Dark One's side could have made use of that.

[Ingtar Shinowa]

I feel kinda odd asking such a basic question, and I probably missed a passage or two in my readings that held the answer. BUT, where the **** are Perrin's parents? I can't for the life of me ever remember them being mentioned. Perrin seems to only think of Master and Mistress Luhhan, as do the others in reference to him. Any help?

[Feral]

Have you read all the books?

[Ingtar Shinowa]

Have you read all the books?

 

At the moment I'm doing a re-read and am almost done with tDR. But, yeah, I've read them all. Started in 1990, in fact, back when RJ still personalized autographs.

[Feral]

Oh ok well they get killed by trollocs along with the rest of his family. As for before that, we never see them because he lived with the Luhhans. But yes it is rather strange that you never see him think of his family at all before they get killed. I didn't even know he had sibblings before that...

 

EDIT: Oh and I think we find out that they're dead in TSR.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Feral

[kasheem]

I'm sorry if this has been clarified, but there are 158 pages in this main topic alone. Add to that that the search engine won't accept the word lan and I gave up and decided just to ask anyway.

 

So with Moiraine having never died, how was Lan's bond passed on to someone else?

[Feral]

Although Moiraine didn't die, the bond between her and Lan still snapped. There's several theories on why this happened, not sure a definite answer has been found yet though.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Feral

[Sid]

Jocelyn and Con Aybara are mentioned in the short additional section to TEotW "Ravens" when they brought Perrin to the Luhan's, asking about apprenticeship. Since he was apprenticed in town since he was twelve, he spent much more time with them than his parents in the last 8-9 years. (their farm was a half-day from Emond's Field) From scenes in TSR we see he obviously had many fond memories of growing up on the farm, but as so often in life he probably took for granted that everything would be ok while he was gone.

 

@kasheem I've subscribed to the theory that the bond was broken due to Moiraine being in another dimension, and when the passage back was destroyed (the doorway melting) it severed her bond. It explains why it was not severed when she went into the other doorway in the Stone of Tear. The doorway acts as an anchor in her reality (or something).

[Terez]

That would explain it but it doesn't seem to be the case based on the full context of the conversation. It's pretty clear that Rand's original order to Berelain was to return to Mayene and he only changed it after she complained.

Well then, perhaps since the idea occurred to him just then, that's why he got the colors.

[Ingtar Shinowa]

Thanks guys. Definitely odd that Perrin hardly ever thinks of them. Perhaps RJ should have just made him an orphan. Although, I shudder to think of all the angst that would dredge up.

[kasheem]

@kasheem I've subscribed to the theory that the bond was broken due to Moiraine being in another dimension, and when the passage back was destroyed (the doorway melting) it severed her bond. It explains why it was not severed when she went into the other doorway in the Stone of Tear. The doorway acts as an anchor in her reality (or something).

 

This is just me coming up with answers on the spot, so bear with me cuz I just finished reading the series within the hour. From what I understood there were multiple doorways to that dimension, one in each spire along with the Tower of Ghenjei itself. That to me means the connection to that realm was not cut off.

 

I can't quite find the way to put it so I hope someone just gets what I mean with this part. Other times in the book I recall people traveling in alternate dimensions, such as waygates. Were there any warder bonds present then and if so were both participants on the same side?

[Sharaman]

@kasheem I've subscribed to the theory that the bond was broken due to Moiraine being in another dimension, and when the passage back was destroyed (the doorway melting) it severed her bond. It explains why it was not severed when she went into the other doorway in the Stone of Tear. The doorway acts as an anchor in her reality (or something).

 

This is just me coming up with answers on the spot, so bear with me cuz I just finished reading the series within the hour. From what I understood there were multiple doorways to that dimension, one in each spire along with the Tower of Ghenjei itself. That to me means the connection to that realm was not cut off.

 

I can't quite find the way to put it so I hope someone just gets what I mean with this part. Other times in the book I recall people traveling in alternate dimensions, such as waygates. Were there any warder bonds present then and if so were both participants on the same side?

Moiraine herself went through the Tear doorway alone and no, the bond didn't snap but of course, the door remained open.

Apart from the closing of that direct link between dimensions when the Rhuedean door burnt down, here could be several other explanations. The ToGhenjei is a link between dimensions but it's a portal placed between the two Finn realms and the world. So it may not have been enough to keep the bond.

Also Moiraine may have deliberately, or otherwise, let the bond pass in a couple of ways (this may be possible but controversial - I don't want to amplify in case of spoilers). She could have asked for this as a wish for example.

Or it may have been something else to do what exactly happened to Moiraine after the door burnt down.

No definite explanation really.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Sharaman

[LemonPastie]

Other doorways may not mean anything - if their bond is visualized as a string between the two of them and the doorway to Finnland is just a door into a house, no matter how many other ways there are into or out of the house, when the door closed, the string snapped

[yoniy0]

Anyway, I think that David Selig is correct about both things he said. And btw it took me several re-reads before I connected Paitr from TEotW and Paitr from LoC

Good one. Never did catch that myself. Since you already went through the motions, do you mind telling me what convinced you that they were the same person?

[David Selig]

Rand smashed Paitr's nose with his fist in EOTW. When Morgase met Paitr, she noted "He might have been good-looking except that his nose had been broken and not properly mended". Paitr in LoC also told Morgase he's from Market Sheran, which is the village in which Rand met Paitr in EOTW.

 

I didn't catch this myself either, I saw it mentioned on some WoT board ages ago.

Edited May 3, 2011 by David Selig

[yoniy0]

Good enough for me. That's something new I learned today.