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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Terrapin

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  1. Actually found WOT randomly in early 2000s and couldn't put series down until caught up for crossroads release. Re-read at least once or twice amd have greatly enjoyed. Been a bit since last signed in but got up to many antics in Band. Possibly caused some tolerating grins on a couple of Aes Sedia while a novice... but fireworks and such are a tale for another time.
  2. Hello all. Been a bit since last signed on so guess best to start here. Nods
  3. Terrapin

    Ages

    Jörmungandr==> Snake biting its own tail may signify eternity or at least a redundent process till Ragnarök. blinding the eye==> would process proceed in the same manner or would fail safes begin to falture after subsequent repeat attempts at breaking the process (seven ages or attempts to break)? Sightblinder, may emphasis the DO's objective of breaking a repeating cycle. If broken, then what will time look like? Nothingness/Oblivian or an alternative flow of time. All conjecture but always fun......cheers
  4. Besides the lion's throne, another important chair repeatedly mentioned is the Seanchen's crystal throne. The angry owner of the chair could be Tuon. However, I'm not certain when Egwene's viewing occurs in relation to Tuon's storyline.
  5. Thanks Sid. I wanted to see if Moridin's POV fit a theme I've been thinking about. Hopefully so.
  6. Does anyone know what book and chapter Ishmael/Moridin's musing about the Age of Legend game similar to stones but with a key piece occurs? I can't recall the name of the game or the piece, just that control of the key piece is vital to winning the game and there are many strategies to winning. Thanks
  7. Thanks to all who posted responses to my previous question about manatherin's lineage. My apologies over a belated thanks, the last week has been hectic. Recently, I have been thinking about the nature of balefire. Wiki relates the effect of balefire as burning threads of the pattern. (i.e, unraveling weavings so that previous outcomes are null and burning the 'soul/thread' of said person so they are no longer able to be respun) (generalization). Without dealving into the Dark ones possible use/ banning of balefire, its nature seems to be paradox. Typically, Balefire destroys anything on contact; yet, when Moridin and Al'thor cross streams, a bond is created. Creation from destruction or vice versa. I could view reluctance for Balefire's use due to AOL chanelers not understanding the nature of said force. If the 'balance in all things' arguement is allowed, possible paradox is further enforced in Towers of Midnight prologue pg 32 (hardback), when Graendal flees: "A blinding light rose behind her. She struggled to dismiss the gateway, and caught one glimpse of the horrified Aran'gar begore everything behind was consumed in beautiful, pure whiteness. The gateway vanished, leaving Graendal in darkness. ...........A wave of wrongness washed over her, a warping in the air, the Pattern itself rippling. A balescream,it was called-a moment when creation itself howled in pain." I find the concept of balefire as possible paradox or maybe something else. The creators side has been refered to as the 'light' and the dark one's as the 'shadow' (generalization). A beautiful light destroying seems contrary to the generalizations made within the series. Adding in cuendellar as one of the only things able to withstand balefire, and the idea that the only thing able to break the strongest material known is something else made of that material, balrefire seems intriguing in nature. Summary: I'm considering the continuing concept of balefire throughout the series, and would appreciate direction to informative discussion about the concept. I don't want to ramble further. Thanks for taking the time to consider my inquiry.
  8. An interesting interpretation. The white tower is on its way to re-unification and the Aes Sedai have Elaida's grand palace to consider. I doubt it, but males could move in to the future building "unifying the symbol" as it were and become one with the Aes Sedai. I wouldn't like this outcome, as it would be to synonymic with a two towers analagy
  9. Hello everyone, I have a possibly stupid/simple question and guess this would be the best forum. Does anyone know or have a lead on the lineage of Manatherens royal line? A little foggy, but I believe that Rand and Matt have both been referred to as true blood of Manetherin. I know Rand is an "adopted son" of manetherin's decendents, but I think it would be funny if the line dated back to Hawkwing. Mat could potentially be a descendent of Hawking. I'm not buildng any theory or totting a pre-established one. I just think it would be a comical scene if Matt told Tuon to listen here, I'm the real deal so............(use your imagination to finish that one). Thanks
  10. Jon Paul, The True Power very well may not need a Balance as it is outside the pattern, "poking its noise in". Thought I'd offer a counter though. If the dark one is eternal, as Verin says, then the pattern's destruction will not cause the demise of the Dark One. Per your arguement: If the true power is an extension of the dark one, then it is an outside influence being introduced into the realm and reality of the pattern. This implies that another outside power could potentially intrude. If the Dark Ones only desire is to destroy and the Creators only interest is to create then move on, there is grounds for the arguement for a "balance" between the two outside the pattern. Debatable, but possible. RJ said the creator doesn't take direct action in the WOT. However, if the Dark One is indeed eternal then it is quite possible that the Creator is as well. If the Creator is eternal and exists outside the pattern, then his aura/power/chi/mojo would as well. The "power", for lack of a better description, would then be ever present by extention. If the Creator's "power" is ever present, then it is possible for someone to eventually tap into it as the true power is able to be tapped. I'm not implying that the Creator has directly intervined and granted Rand the ability to tap this power, only that it potentially has always been floating around out there and Rand's revelation has allowed him to somehow grasp it. Then again this is all conjecture and mainly that. But hey, everyone likes a good debate. On a side thought: Saiden has been described as a constant battle for control, walking along the edge of a knife, and bending it to your will. Somehow this seems in contrast to the new Zin Rand. Just a thought. Cheers
  11. Sorry if I wasn't clear, kind of tired when I wrote that bit. Saidin/saidar is neutral I agree on that and was thinking that when I wrote the last bit. I just assumed the context would get through. Anyway, I am just wondering what the light web on Rand is. Didn't our favorite braid puller say something to the effect that it was foreign. (i.e, she wasn't certain what it was and at least not saidar, probably not saidan as she was involved in the cleansing and may have some incling of what it is). I just feel that the books have a continuous theme of balance and that whatever this new light web is coming from maybe in opposition of the true power. True power just seems to have a destructive/withering effect on the people that use it. I remember RJ saying that the creator doesn't directly effect the world, but this new thing came from somewhere. Maybe it has always been there we just haven't recongnized. THis grasping I know, but if the one power is neutral and true power is in deed an extension of the dark one, then it is possible that there is some other power as a balancing of the true power. This is full of assumptions and I don't know if I'd really like a brand spankin new idea thrown at us in the last book. THere are already to many threads needing to be tied off. I also don't want to accept that rand is different in someway and you'll just have to take the word of Brandon that it fits into everything else.
  12. So does anyone have an opinion on what the significance of Verin saying that Tar is a third constant besides the creator and the dark one? When Egwene is in Tar and looking at the new window in the tower, an addition is made to the Aes Sedai Symbol. A white tear drop, a black fang, and a new symbol for Tar. This just seems to important to introduce without having some importance, especially this close to the end. I view any new concepts at this stage as explicitly important to the outcome of the books. I'm new to the theory threads so haven't really come up with anything good yet.
  13. I really don't know if there is something beyond the one power for the light side, but it would play into the whole balance concept. Moridin can be seen as the champion of evil while Rand is the champion of light, saidar to balance saiden, etc... I kind of view the Rand's new abilities of, an example is growing apples, as a counter of the dark ones power of destoying. The dark ones touch has caused plants and everything else to wither and Rand is now able to dissipate this effect and allow things to grow (creation). Maybe the reason so many apples appear in the orchard is that Rand's presence is bringing things back into balance and the pattern is forcing the trees to "catch up" as it where. When the forsaken describe how the true power forms a gateway, it seems to me as it is destroying a bit of the pattern. It at least appears to work counter to the pattern. This is why I view the true power as a force of destruction and by effect an extension of the dark one. I think there should be something to counter the destuctive nature of the true power and maybe this is what is giving Rand his new abilities. Speculative, but I don't really have anything else to go on till the next book. May play into the prophesy about the dragon being one with the land. Maybe being one with the land is some attribute of creation. Whatever Rand's new abilities are steeming from, they do appear to be in opposition to the dark one's touch. I can't remember if this is correct, I would appreciate anyone confirming or setting me straight: Does Saiden/Saidor actually create? Does Saiden/Saidor take "elements" that are actually around and kind of amplify/gather them into the desired effect? or Does Saiden/Saidor create the desired effect, lets say fire, out of nothing? I don't know what Rand's abilities are steeming from, but by analyzing the characteristics of Saiden/Saidor it may be possible to infer if they are the root of Rand's abilities. If these attributes don't fit then it would be safer to assume that there is some other power at work. Thanks
  14. This is an assumption and you are free to take it as such, but couldn't a male channeler's strenght be seen as a time series with periodic constraints barring progression to higher levels. We know that male channelers do not gradually increase over time but in sudden bursts. With the graduated nature of saiden, couldn't the comparisome of a channeler's strength to Rand's be viewed as a comparison to Rand's strength at a set point in time? Feel free to correct me, but I don't remember there being a statement regarding the absolute maximum a person can achieve, just the current strength a man is. There may be precepts on what the norm is or what people believe can't be achieved, but this arguement is weakened by current channelers curing severing. Time is continuous, as such, any attempt to gauge a continuous variable is done so at a set point in time. Before the measure is taken it may be noon, at 1 o'clock the measure is taken and gauged,afterward it is two. Time has passed and as such the data you are analyzing may have been altered by some occurance. Correlation between explanitory variables means that when one explanitory variable changes it may cause a change in another explanitory variable. Taken together, this change will cause an increase or decrease in the explained variable, strength in saiden. One can also use a growth calculation to explain a change. Assuming no negative growth, at time t we are at X strength, time passes and growth may be 0 or have increased by some percentage. If no growth, then we are still at X. If growth, then we are at X(1+%). Time has passed since Rand's comparison to Sammael and illustrated in a storm of light, a variable may have changed. Some factor has caused this change, attribute it to whatever you see fit. Over time, a change in some variable may increase or decrease your dependent variable, variable of interest, what that isn't known right now. All I'm getting at is that I don't believe that Rand was at some predetermined max strength. He has found a key of sorts to allow him to progress to a higher ability. Previously, he was limited by some constraint on his growth ability and an occurance has allowed him to pass the constraint and achieve a higher level of output, greater ability in saiden. Feel free to disprove my assumptions, it won't hurt my feelings and may lead to a better understandingon my part. Cheers
  15. When I read Lan's last charge, I was reminded of the last charge of the Heart guard (not sure of the name, but the last charge of Manatherin against the horde of dreadlords and trollocs). Manatherin was fighting for their lives and their homeland; had sent out missives requesting aid; subsequently, no aid arrived; the remnant of Manatherin’s warriors charged a massive army that finally began crossing the river efficiently. At the time, many of the nations where divided and fighting on many fronts against the sudden surge of trollocs. It wasn't till after the death of Manatherin, did the nations unite and destroy or drive the trollocs back to the blight. It took a huge shock to shake the leaders of WOT world into a decisive and cohesive action. (paraphrasing from memory, apologize if I miss represent or miss "quote") Lan is now in an approximately similar situation. He is the king of Malkier charging a mass of trollocs crossing over into the border lands with the remnant of his people's warriors. Reasonable to assume the malkieri women and children, to young to fight, are elsewhere. (similar to the women and young of Manatherin fleeing/not present) This charge doesn't delineate the destruction of the Malkieri ethnicity, people or culture, but an ending to an already doomed kingdom. (Two rivers was not a kingdom and had no king, but are the descendents of Manatherin blood) The Leaders of WOT nations and entities are meeting to discuss Rand's proclamation. Paralleling the divide previously mentioned these leaders are divided by what action to pursue. (King of Tear tells Egwene that he will listen to her proposal but is ruling by Rand's grace, Perrin supports Rand’s idea, Egwene and others think Rand is insane.) With Tarmon Gaiden rapidly approaching, there will need to be a mechanism in place to allow for a 'quick' unification of the lights forces. Lan's plight offers this mechanism and would allow AMOL to progress toward more purposeful pursuits, such as: tying up loose threads, black tower confrontation, Moiraine reunion, and provide greater capacity for the larger confrontation (i.e, the ultimate climax of the series, Rand sealing bore) With only a finite number of pages and every readers desire for these threads to be divulged in detail, there is almost a need for something to this effect. Lan will be saved or die; either way, hopefully it is portrayed in spectacular fashion. Realize the potential of the Lan's situation. After so many years, there will be no more story creation but conclusions. If Lan were to die, this act would shake the hearts of men and possibly bind them together in the effort of the Last battle. As continually demonstrated in the series, for WOT leaders to make decisive and any semblance of cohesive action, there must be a huge shock wave to trigger its reaction. Unfortunately, my TOM book has grown legs and disappeared, but I'll try my hand at speculation: Is Lan's plight only driven at tying off a loose thread, or can he be a pebble dropped into the pond? I believe Lan has been eluded to appearing as a wolf ready to leap into action. His bond has been passed along twice now, could this delineate broken? Lan is respected by many leaders and is in a position to cause woe and dishearten others. On the other hand he could be portrayed as a martyr and a rallying force for the light. Anyway, I thought the parallel between the two themes were to similar for happenstance. As I said earlier, I don't have my book with me and I can't remember everything clearly right now. It is late and I have to get up earlier than I would like so I'll leave it there for now. I don't want to ramble to much before checking on this thought. Cheers
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