Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[mb]

From looking through the Towers of Midnight pages of Encyclopaedia, these are the POVs for chapter 51::

-Min

-Cadsuane

 

And just one sentence could indicate almost anything.

[herid]

From looking through the Towers of Midnight pages of Encyclopaedia, these are the POVs for chapter 51::

-Min

-Cadsuane

 

And just one sentence could indicate almost anything.

I don't want to reprint the whole chapter. just read the book and you'll see. Avi spends quite a long time with the glass pillars there. she even reprograms them to show the future instead of the past.

[mb]

It would be some time before I read Towers of Midnight. Waiting for the paperback version.

 

Like I implied in most recent post, the chapter reference seems wrong.

 

I was actually asking for the passages of both exits and/or of both enterings; not necessarily whole chapter/chapters.

[herid]

It would be some time before I read Towers of Midnight. Waiting for the paperback version.

 

Like I implied in most recent post, the chapter reference seems wrong.

 

I was actually asking for the passages of both exits and/or of both enterings; not necessarily whole chapter/chapters.

sorry, that was the wrong chapter number. we don't see Avi entering the columns. this happens off-screen. she exists at the beginning of Chapter 48 (I gave you the first line of that Chapter). She then reprograms the columns, enters again and spends the rest of Chapter 48 and the whole chapter 49 passing through the columns the second time and seeing the future.

[mb]

Regarding original question, maybe the reprogramming made the terangreal into a different one.

 

As far as I am aware, its former state was once per person.

[Ashandarei]

It would be some time before I read Towers of Midnight. Waiting for the paperback version.

 

Like I implied in most recent post, the chapter reference seems wrong.

 

I was actually asking for the passages of both exits and/or of both enterings; not necessarily whole chapter/chapters.

 

Here's the quote, the first line is the one herid quoted, from the beginning of Ch.48 which is right after her 1st trip into the pillars:

 

Aviendha took one final step and was out of the forest of glass pillars.¹

[...]

She stepped up to the nearest glass pillar, careful not to pass inside the ring. If she touched one of the rods, perhaps her Talent would let her read something about them. It was dangerous to experiment with ter'angreal, but she had already passed their challenge and was unscathed. Hesitantly, she reached out and laid fingers on the slick, glassy surface. It was about a foot thick. She closed her eyes, trying to read the pillar's function.

 

She sensed the powerful aura of the pillar. It was far more potent than any of the ter'angreal she had handled with Elayne. Indeed, the pillars seemed... alive, somehow. It was almost as if she could sense an awareness from them. That gave her a chill. Was she touching the pillar, or was it touching her? She tried to read ter'angreal as she had done before, but this one was vast. Incomprehensible, like the One Power itself. She inhaled sharply, disoriented by the weight of what she felt. It was as if she had suddenly fallen into a deep, dark pit.

 

She snapped her eyes open, pulling her hand away, palm quivering. This was beyond her. She was an insect, ttying to grasp the size and mass of a mountain. She took a breath to steady herself, then shook her head. There was nothing more to be done here. She turned from the glass pillars and took a step.²

-

She was Malidra, eighteen but scrawny enough to appear much younger.

[...]

Those pillars were a challenge, as sure as an enemy warrior with his spear in hand. If she passed into their midst again, she might never come out; nobody visited this ter'angreal a second time. It was forbidden. One trip through the rings, one through the columns. But she had come seeking knowledge. She would not leave without it. She turned and—taking a deep breath—walked up to the pillars. Then took a step.

[...]

She wished she'd never stepped back into the forest of pillars.

[...]

There had to be more. Angry, she stood up and took another step. Nothing happened. She walked all the way to the edge of the pillars, then turned, furious. "Show me more," she demanded. "Show me what I did to cause this! It is my lineage that brought us ruin! What is my part in it?" She walked into the pillars again.³ Nothing. They seemed dead. She reached out and touched one, but there was no life. No hum, no sense of Power.

If you don't want to read the whole thing, just look at the bolded text, it shows that she did in fact pass through more than once. As we can see, she makes the first trip and walks out[¹], enters again[²], sees different visions, and after coming out the 2nd time, walks in again a third time[³], but the third time the pillars don't work.

 

EDIT:

As for the original question:

Could Rand go through the glass column once more now that the time-direction of the vision has been changed?

 

EDIT : I forgot that Aviendha went there twice... So I suppose Rand could too. Wouldn't it be a good idea for him to go?

I'd say the columns are now broken and/or dead. Avi's first observation, before she walked through a 2nd time: "She sensed the powerful aura of the pillar. It was far more potent than any of the ter'angreal she had handled with Elayne." Compare that to the final line in the above quote- "[...]there was no life. No hum, no sense of Power." I believe her "reprogramming" made them do something they may not have been made to do, tell the future instead of the past, so it could have fried them.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Ashandarei

[Thorgan]

Will Rand break the world again?

In the beginning everybody just assumes it because male channelers are bound to be mad.

But now I just re-read the scene where Rand returns from Rhuidean and it sais the prophecies say he'll break the world again.

 

Is it prophecy or just an assumption?

Edited March 2, 2011 by Thorgan

[Majsju]

Will Rand break the world again?

In the beginning everybody just assumes it because male channelers are bound to be mad.

But now I just re-read the scene where Rand returns from Rhuidean and it sais the prophecies say he'll break the world again.

 

Or is it just a wrong assumption because they didn't know the male channelers wouldn't go mad?

 

He has already started breaking it again. There are more ways to break the world than by tossing mountains around. In Rands case, the breaking is him being a catalyst for major political change.

[Arc]

question on damane: If AS who were captured and become Damane are forced to use the OP as a weapon, why doesn't it kill them or choke them up like when they come close to telling a lie? The oaths should prevent them from being useful damane, no?

[capuga]

question on damane: If AS who were captured and become Damane are forced to use the OP as a weapon, why doesn't it kill them or choke them up like when they come close to telling a lie? The oaths should prevent them from being useful damane, no?

 

Somebody could look up the actual quote but the Seanchan do mention that the Aes Sedai captured as damane are useless as weapons. The one Yellow that was caught at Falme and is completely broken (Teslyn warned Mat against trying to rescue her in Ebou Dar) is upset that she can't be a more helpful damane but her sul'dam consules her and tells her she makes great Skylights. They are also useful for Healing.

[mb]

The books have multiple examples of Aes Sedia made into damane. Any oaths they swore would still apply; an adam cannot cause them to contradict sworn oaths.

[Finnssss22]

The damane, Mylen, brought along with Kadere when he goes into the Band's camp in KoD chpt 36 is one such. Kadere notes that she is all but useless as a weapon.

This is the same former Aes Sedai, Sheraine Caminelle, captured at Flame, that Tuon talks about training herself in WH chpt 14.

 

Any former full Aes Sedai made damane that can actually be used as a weapon is/was most likely Black.

[mb]

A thought just occurred to me::

Suldam could probably use various techniques to change how the former Aes Sedia interprets sworn oaths.

Though the process would probably take a long time; and even then there is not a guarantee of the damane changing.

 

It seems that suldam have not even tried changing damane beliefs.

[capuga]

A thought just occurred to me::

Suldam could probably use various techniques to change how the former Aes Sedia interprets sworn oaths.

Though the process would probably take a long time; and even then there is not a guarantee of the damane changing.

 

It seems that suldam have not even tried changing damane beliefs.

 

One way to do this would be to convince them that because the sul'dam is in charge and the damane can only channel what the sul'dam says, it is actually the sul'dam being the weapon and not the damane. Not sure they could make the former Aes Sedai believe this but it could possibly circumvent the Oath if they could.

[Thorgan]

Actually I think Robert Jordan forgot about one thing when writing about Aes Sedai damane.

 

Aes Sedai can speak oaths that are binding to themselves. So if an Aes Sedai sais "I will not channel wile I'm wearing an a'dam" she can not. No matter how much she is tortured.

 

Of course it's not that simple but that one Aes Sedai that tried to starve herself to death (I don't remember the name) could've used that trick.

[Terez]

It doesn't work that way. If she said that while holding the Oath Rod it would be different. So long as she believes it when she says it, she can say it, but after that, it's not binding.

[Luckers]

Indeed, note how Elaida went back on her oath to obey Alviarin. She believed she was speaking the truth when she said it, but later when Alviarin fell she no longer believed it was true that she would obey Alviarin, and thus didn't need to.

 

Had she been holding the Oath Rod when she made that Oath, then no change in circumstances, opinion or belief would have allowed her to go back on it.

 

So an Aes Sedai can swear all she wants not to obey the sul'dam, but once she's broken down she'll no longer hold to it--in effect the truth an Aes Sedai speaks is the truth of that moment, and nothing stops that from changing over time.

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

One paragraph from Winter's Heart (Chapter-Out of Thin Air) has always vexed me.

"Kill him," Demandred had commanded later, but he had added that it would be better they died than let themselves be discovered again. By anyone, including the M'Hael, as if he did not know of Taim's order.

 

My problem is why? Demandred burns with hatred for LTT/Rand and lives to be the one to kill him. I do not remember the exact quote but Moridin even rebuffs Dem at one point saying that the GLoD gets to kill Rand, not Demmy. So why does Demandred order the four of them to kill Rand? Does he not think them capable? Is he trying to draw Rand out? Finally the last sentence clearly points out that Demmy is either giving orders at the BT or is in the room when assignments are being handed out.

[Luckers]

One paragraph from Winter's Heart (Chapter-Out of Thin Air) has always vexed me.

"Kill him," Demandred had commanded later, but he had added that it would be better they died than let themselves be discovered again. By anyone, including the M'Hael, as if he did not know of Taim's order.

 

My problem is why? Demandred burns with hatred for LTT/Rand and lives to be the one to kill him. I do not remember the exact quote but Moridin even rebuffs Dem at one point saying that the GLoD gets to kill Rand, not Demmy. So why does Demandred order the four of them to kill Rand? Does he not think them capable? Is he trying to draw Rand out? Finally the last sentence clearly points out that Demmy is either giving orders at the BT or is in the room when assignments are being handed out.

 

The quote where Demandred says only he shall kill Rand was from tGS, and, I think, as mistake on Brandon's behalf. Demandred loathes Lews Therin, but the outlet of his hatred has never been so directly personal. A bit like Mat's over-enthusiatic jesting, I suspect this was a bit of Brandon going a bit too far with a characters personality traits in portraying them.

[Kiriath Til Asdod]

No Luckers Demandred's hatred and/or jealousy of the Dragon are often stated and are referred to as the reason for him crossing to the dark side in the BWB. Him and Samm are mentioned as the two that hate him the most but Demandred above all others.

[Ashandarei]

A bit like Mat's over-enthusiatic jesting, I suspect this was a bit of Brandon going a bit too far with a characters personality traits in portraying them.

 

Other people noticed that too? I thought I was the only one- I kept hearing about how people loved the Mat segments in BS's books so much and thought that they were RJ's writing etc... And even more so than Mat, Talmanes! Talmanes was always a dry humor, subtle twinkle in the eye kind of guy who in the BS books turns into a very overtly joker-ish guy. Where went the subtlety?? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Sanderson's work and all he's done to make this happen but his portrayal of certain characters is about as blunt as a hammerhead.

Edited March 3, 2011 by Ashandarei

[Sid]

Is it stated anywhere exactly why the Aiel are called People of the Dragon, or Children of the Dragon? I just heard the audio of TEOTW ch 49 with the Green Man, and I tried to remember if it was explained, but cannot.

[Luckers]

The name came because in the early days of the war the Aiel--especially those who had served Aes Sedai who turned to the Shadow--were being attacked by civillians, and so Lews Therin used his authority to protect them. Over time it was forgotten that the Aiel served the Aes Sedai as a whole, and they were linked to the Dragon--hence the creation of the name.

[Nezrall]

ok I have alot of questions about the forsaken from the earlier books cuz i dont have them so bear with me....

 

1)was Lanfear's "domain" T'A'R? I remember that in like tDR she was talking to Ishy about it....

 

2)was Moggy based in Tanchico?

 

3) how did aginor die in the eye of the world?

 

4) was there a forsaken based in Cairhien?

 

and also

 

5) are there male dreamers?

 

6)if so, is Rand a dreamer because he can access T'A'R?

 

7) also, if there are male dreamers, are all the male forsaken dreamers because they can all access T'A'R?

 

thank you very much whoever answers these questions

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Lanfear's domain is T'A'R. It's been described that she has control over T'A'R that the other forsaken wish they had.

 

2. Moggy never really had a base of operations, as she also operates out of T'A'R. She is is a;most as strong their as Lanfear.

 

3. Rand seized the pool of power at the EoTW and consumed Aginor in flames. It was the first time Rand channeled.

 

4. As far as we know there were no Forsaken based out of Cairhien.

 

5. As far as i know, i don't think Dreamers are relegated to only being women.

 

6. I don't believe Rand is a Dreamer. He's just an extremely strong ta'veren. Because of that, i believe the pattern reveals itself to him, to help guide him in some way, in what he must accomplish.

 

7. None of the Forsaken are Dreamers, IMO. It seems to me that they have to physically enter T'A'R. From what I've read it just seems a logical guess. I know the Male Forsaken aren't. I can't really say about Moggy and Lanfear. Also anyone who can channel and is strong enough to open a gateway, can physically enter T'A'R if they are tought the weaves.

 

I hope that kinda sheds some light on some subjects. However, i could be wrong about things.

 

Moghedien is stronger than Lanfear in T'A'R, but far weaker in the OP.

 

Heres my question: now that Saidin has been cleansed, is it safe to enter the ways again? I wonder with the taint gone what effect it would have on Machin Shin.

[Aquarius]

Heres my question: now that Saidin has been cleansed, is it safe to enter the ways again? I wonder with the taint gone what effect it would have on Machin Shin.

It took decades or even hundred of years for Machin Sin to form and render the Ways unusable. You could argue that it would also take time for it to get cleaned up (IF the taint was the reason for it's creation in the first place).

Also, consider that Fain had some troubling interraction with Machin Sin and we don't really know how it behaves NOW.