EotW voice

[Guest Harso]

Just a question I'm wondering about. At the end of EotW Rand hears a voice. It comes after he kills Aginor and saves the army at Tarwins Gap, but before he fights Ishamael. Do we know what voice it is? It's in ALL CAPS, like the DO's. Anyway I know you Wot Scholars will know all about it, so help me out.

[HighLordXanthus]

I think it was Ishy somehow

[Old Skool]

I was under the impression it was the Creator.

[merlinspetrock]

Don't know about the creator as he hasnt shown his hand in any of the other books, but the first book was a little different than the rest. Can someone provide the quote as my EoTW is on loan right now.

[Mat Comes With The Dawn]

I thought he was going insane.

[Guest Harso]

it says, IT IS NOT HERE.

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DOWHATMUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

NOT HERE.

page 758 of my paperback.

[merlinspetrock]

Well that certainly sounds like the creator laying down the rules to his chosen one then. Thanks for the quote. Unless it is the DO doing the same thing. Its a little funny that Rand never brings that up again but this series certainly has more than a few inconsistancies (sp? I drink after work and spelling goes right out the window then.)

[Jonn]

Well that certainly sounds like the creator laying down the rules to his chosen one then. Thanks for the quote. Unless it is the DO doing the same thing. Its a little funny that Rand never brings that up again but this series certainly has more than a few inconsistancies (sp? I drink after work and spelling goes right out the window then.)

 

We have to remember, Rand was channeling a huge amount of saidin.

 

I think since Callandor was revealed and the Choedan Kal, we've lost perspective of how much saidin Rand was handling there. Put it this way, it was enough to burn Aginor to a pile of greasy ashes and for Rand to decimate a trolloc army AND to open up and kick Ishamael's butt.

 

It may be that that much saidin somehow made it possible for Rand to hear a representation of the Creator's will. Something like an angel, except in WOT standards.

[SinisterDeath]

This is a very much debated question even today. I think RJ orginally intended that to be the creator finally stepping in. This was when RJ thought it would only be 3-4 books long... As it grew longer, more complex I think RJ will or has thought of re-doing the ending of eotw. Making the voice predominantly the DO. It sounds like the voice is giving advice.. So the first thought is 'must be the creator' but later we see RJ use the same head crushing capitle letters over and over again as the DO. "Which is designed to make us believe it was the do not the creator." There is also the possibility that it might have been LTT though he normally doesn't yell or give usefull advice. I think in the long run it will get changed to the DO. Even though now its possibly the creator.. Though for all we know, The do himself is bound by the wheel, and wanted rand as an 'ally' against the light.. So it could be the do to. That or the DO was contacting Ishmale saying not here not now. and Rand was getting that at the same time.. Key word for that is 'The Chosen One' The nae'blis is called the Chosen..

[DaShain]

Simplest explanation is that it's the Creator. Of course, considering what series we're talking about, simplest isn't always right.

 

It makes the most sense, though. Especially if you think about it for a moment. I mean, if the Creator actually did make the world and then just leave it ... HOW do people know about him? Did the Dark One just let something slip to someone in the Age of Legends? No, it's most likely that, at one point or another, there have been people (most likely Dragons of other ages) who have also been spoken to by the Creator. The Dragon is essentially the Creator's chosen one; he's the only person singled out to be born only at certain times, to be the strongest (or one of) power user possible, to be the same height, etc ... if anyone is going to hear the Creator's voice, it's the Dragon.

 

It's not as if what he said was particularly helpful, anyway. The Creator merely pointed out that Tarwin's Gap was obviously not the place the Dragon had to go. If this is all he allows his chosen one to know, it doesn't really seem like breaking the rules to me.

[Guest Harso]

The consensus= I don't know. That's surprising guys. I like it.

[Genesis_XVI]

I had exactly the same question ages ago. At the time - given the tone - I thought it was the creator. But I was swayed by the reasoning of another Dragonmounter (Either Maj or Luckers, can't remember which). Which is why I confidently say, that in my opinion, it is definitely Shaitan. Without a doubt. To say it was the creator, then RJ changed it to Shaitan is a little shaky. But that may be. I think the chosen one the voice talks of is Naeblis, doing what must be done is confronting/beating the Dragon, I will take no part is a summation of Shaitan's position: he is bound to Shayol Ghul, he CAN'T take part. Why does Rand hear the voice you ask? I can only speculate that it is one of the peculiar things that happens that close to Shayol Ghul when you hold/use the power - especially as much of it as Rand was using. Another major strength of saying that it was the Dark One, is the absurdity of it being the Creator. Yes... The creator pops in for a little chat with the saviour... all to say, sorry dude, can't really do much... oh... and I'm gonna talk about you in the third person.

 

I think that the Dragon is the Chosen protector of the Light, and Ishmael is the Chosen One of the Shadow. Ishy said himnself, you and I have had this battle endless times Lews Therin (paraphrase). As such, I think this tid-bit of convo is just a side affect of proximity to the bore.

 

- Genesis_XVI

[DaShain]

The voice said "I WILL NOT", though, not "I CANNOT". The Dark One has been shown to admit when he simply can't do something ("EVEN I CANNOT REACH OUTSIDE OF TIME.") even to Demandred, so why would he be saying "I WILL NOT" instead of "I CANNOT" to the one person who is least likely to care that he can't do something?

 

The Creator pops in for "a little chat" to A) Let Rand know that SOMETHING is there, even if he's not sure what, B) The something that is there is not going to be taking part, he has to do it on his own, and C) That killing the army amassed at Tarwin's Gap wasn't what he had to do right then.

 

It's pretty absurd if it's the Dark One as well. Why would the Dark One be talking to Ishamael in third person? He talks to everyone else normally (well, normalish). Ishamael knows better than anyone that the Dark One can't directly help him, except by granting him access to the True Power, so there's no reason to say so. And why would this communication be intercepted by Rand? That part I just don't get.

 

If the Dark One is talking directly to Rand and trying to impersonate the Creator, why phrase it like that? Why not go "NOW IS THE TIME TO FLEE" or something similar? Why let Rand know that he can find Ishy and kill him (or seriously hurt him, anyway)?

[Guest Harso]

When I posted this question I was sure I'd hear a RJ quote thrown at me. Has no one asked, or is he not giving an answer

[Dionysus]

Someone asked, its in the RAFO files.

[algspkr]

I vote Creator, maybe we will have a nice conversation between the two when Rand dies.

[Musenge]

I see the creator and the dark one as battling for the world.

 

The creator doesn't want to touch the world since he knows his touch will be too heavy and might unravel his creation, which is why he uses the dragon. He also gives no divine power to rival the DOs true power.

 

The DO is bent on remaking the world the creator made in his own image so isn't concerned with how heavy his touch is. He wants to grab it with both hands so grants true power and wakes the dead, locks the seasons, causes famine, alters reality and so on.

 

Given what was said to Rand I must conclude it was the creator himself speaking. I don't think he will do so again either

[Jorik Alarin]

Im betting the voice was the DO, and heres why. In that particular passage, Rand full to the brim with the OP, is screaming for it to end for the battle between good and evil to cease. In effect, he is throwing the gauntlet full into the face of the DO "i challenge you to a duel,let the final battle begin now." The DO knowing much, much more than Rand replies "hey man i would love to beat your bunny right here and now but the game has only just begun, if my champion wants to strike at you its up to him." poetic license taken...;P The real question is why hasn't anyone asked RJ straight up in a weekly question whther this is the case or not.

[keravon3]

Maby its Lewis therin (he is insain)

[yolindamo]

I absolutely postitively believe that was the voice of the Creator.

 

Allegorically equivalant to God's voice when Jesus was baptisted, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, hear ye him."

[vikingdriver]

It was the Dark One speaking. Rand has not fulfilled any of the prophesies as of yet and has not established himself as the Dragon Reborn nor as the Creator's chosen one. Once he pulls Callandor from the Stone The Dark one knows for sure whom is to be the Creators chosen champion. Still at the end of EotW, Bal`alzamon is still unsure which of the three is the chosen, though since Rand can Channel he is the prime suspect.

[Rumor]

This is a very much debated question even today. I think RJ orginally intended that to be the creator finally stepping in. This was when RJ thought it would only be 3-4 books long... As it grew longer' date=' more complex I think RJ will or has thought of re-doing the ending of eotw. Making the voice predominantly the DO. It sounds like the voice is giving advice.. So the first thought is 'must be the creator' but later we see RJ use the same head crushing capitle letters over and over again as the DO. "Which is designed to make us believe it was the do not the creator." [/quote']

 

I tend to lean towards believing this about RJ's original intentions and it possibly just not fitting with the more complex edition it has become, though my original thought was that it was yet more of Ishmael trying to pass himself off as the DO and lead Rand to where he wanted him. I'm not inclined to believe that it was the Creator, mainly because he has not given any other "messages" in any other book. The fact that Rand was untried is not enough of an excuse for the Creator to intervene...Rand has spontaneously figured out how to do things without more "messages" throughout the rest of the series (I know, mainly through LTT, but some have actually just been him figuring stuff out in need which may or may not have been LTT).

 

R

[GTPapabear]

It was the Dark One speaking. Rand has not fulfilled any of the prophesies as of yet and has not established himself as the Dragon Reborn nor as the Creator's chosen one. Once he pulls Callandor from the Stone The Dark one knows for sure whom is to be the Creators chosen champion. Still at the end of EotW, Bal`alzamon is still unsure which of the three is the chosen, though since Rand can Channel he is the prime suspect.

 

I just had to say it. I find this amusing. Wouldn't the CREATOR KNOW who his chosen champion was? :)

So If he WAS going to speak to him (not saying I think it was the creator) don't you think he would at least pick the right guy?

[mike]

it was JAMES EARL JONES,

[seoman]

it is a good thing there is confussion about this words, at least for RJ, so i think in the begginning was the creator who told rand, but it would be the first and only time the creator take explicit intervention