Post tGS Predictions of the End (Full Spoilers)

[WolfTwins]

Do we recall what a channeler could do to Mashadar or Machin Shin?

I think DO look and act like them (Mashadar or Machin Shin), only far more powerful.

“Two great sa’angreal were made just before the end, one that you can use, one that I can. Far greater than that sword. Their power is beyond imagining. With those, we could challenge even . . . the Great Lord himself. Even the Creator!”

Challenge not defeat or destroy.

Rand will do the Sealing better than Therin, he will have with him the female channeler not only the male channeler like Therin.

[Vermillion]

Do we recall what a channeler could do to Mashadar or Machin Shin?

I think DO look and act like them (Mashadar or Machin Shin), only far more powerful.

“Two great sa’angreal were made just before the end, one that you can use, one that I can. Far greater than that sword. Their power is beyond imagining. With those, we could challenge even . . . the Great Lord himself. Even the Creator!”

Challenge not defeat or destroy.

Rand will do the Sealing better than Therin, he will have with him the female channeler not only the male channeler like Therin.

 

If you assume the DO's essences is like the True Power it was CK level.  I assume the One Power is a lot bigger but impossible as much unaided as it took Rand a while to clean off of Saidin with CK.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

I agree about Fain. He almost seems to represent another side of the Shadow. Such as the Male and Female halves of the One Power, its almost like the DO and whatever power Fain has in him is almost his equal and opposite.

 

I'm very curious indeed about all of that and what happens.

 

As for predictions, I did always think Rand would go too far, but I didn't expect him to go that dark or that grim. I thought Egwene would get the tower, but it was a delight how it happened. That all the subtle plots were just for women hungry for power.

 

I expect Fain to be pivitol. If failing that he'll survive through the end and sit overlooking it all and say 'Now its my turn.' The Fourth Age will have to have its own trials and tribulations... and Fain and his taint could be something to shake the foundations of the world.

 

Actually, I think that Fain represents the evil that men are capable without the influence of the Dark One, and as such will live on after the end of the series and the Last Battle... its not as if the defeat of the DO will result in this perfect utopia, and I think that Fain will lurk as the 'evil within' once the 'evil without' has been defeated.

 

JMO.

 

I think about it a little bit different but I agree with what you say to a large extent. As the creator made earth laddy daddy dah at that exact moment he had to lock up the dark one. So to me either the DO is the opposite of the creator or the opposite of creation (ie destruction, death et al)

 

The goodness that exists in people is not from the creator, as such, but from "the light" which is, in a way, a creation of the creator. Then Fain would be a destruction of the light in people by the creator and therefore the opposite of the light and a cause-effect of the DO but not directly a part of the DO in the same way that Darkfriends are.

 

I don't know what the theological view on the light & creator is but to me they seem separate and fain is the opposite of the light, sorry, the balance to the light I should say not the opposite. Saidin/ar are not "opposites" like right and wrong but exist in a duality, the same goes for fain&thedarkone versus the light and the creator.

 

But that is my thoughts only, and whilst they are not invalid they are as much Bull Poop as the next man's theory.

[WolfTwins]

If you assume the DO's essences is like the True Power it was CK level.  I assume the One Power is a lot bigger but impossible as much unaided as it took Rand a while to clean off of Saidin with CK.

I asume that DO cannot be defeated with channeling or physical strike, he must be contained, Sealed

[Vermillion]

If you assume the DO's essences is like the True Power it was CK level.  I assume the One Power is a lot bigger but impossible as much unaided as it took Rand a while to clean off of Saidin with CK.

I asume that DO cannot be defeated with channeling or physical strike, he must be contained, Sealed

 

It's possible he could be negated kind of like how the taint was negated by Mashadar and vice versa.

[water_seeker]

Someone brought up the quote, "Belief and order give strength" on another thread and it got me thinking.  What if "Belief and order give strength" means that the more ppl who believe in Rand's ability to defeat the DO, the more strength he has to actually do it?

 

We've already seen a connection between Rand and the ppl when he fought Ishy above Falme.  When he faltered, the people on his side faltered (or vice versa depending on how you see that scene playing out), but when he pushed on, his ppl pushed on.

 

I've also been harboring the idea that the "Dragon" is actually the vessel that the Creator uses to act in the world without being seen to act in the world.  The only way for it to work though is for the Dragon to seem like just antother person so he has no idea of the power available to him (think Sparhawk).

 

I think that's why he'd rather have the Dragon join his side, because the death of the vessel would only be a momentary victory whereas turning him would give him dominion over the Creator.  The struggle there would have to be bigger than the fate of one world (or any number of worlds).  I just think we're underestimating what's really going on behind the scenes.

[WolfTwins]

It's possible he could be negated kind of like how the taint was negated by Mashadar and vice versa

Who else is powerful like DO?

Could the OP negate the TP? Then both will be destroyed and the World with them. May be some kind of weave with saidin and saidar through Callandor could destroy DO, but that will make a hole in the Pattern. :'(

May be in the Pit of Doom Rand will fight Shaidar Haran and nae'blis but a fight one to one between Rand and the Dark One is just RoFLoL

[Worm]

It's possible he could be negated kind of like how the taint was negated by Mashadar and vice versa

Who else is powerful like DO?

Could the OP negate the TP? Then both will be destroyed and the World with them. May be some kind of weave with saidin and saidar through Callandor could destroy DO, but that will make a hole in the Pattern. :'(

May be in the Pit of Doom Rand will fight Shaidar Hairan and nae'blis but a fight one to one between Rand and the Dark One is just RoFLoL

 

Actually thats a good idea and would satisfy the prophecy "and the three shall become one" if Rand used Callandor to somehow smash all of the OP into the TP and combine the three. This could tear away an enormous chunk of the DO's power allowing him to be sealed away while draining the world of the OP which some people have also predicted.

 

But I prefer my solution,: to defeat the shadow you must become harder than it, crueler than it, stronger than it. Gather round children and hear how uncle Mordeth plans to win...

[WolfTwins]

But I prefer my solution,: to defeat the shadow you must become harder than it, crueler than it, stronger than it.

Before Dragonmount

He would be harder, now. He understood how. Where he had once been steel, he became something else.

From now on, he was cuendillar. He had entered a place like the void that Tam had trained him to seek, so long ago. But within this void he had no emotion.

On the Dragonmount

The Choedan Kal exploded.

...

And Rand opened his eyes for the first time in a very long while. ...

He regarded the world beneath him. The clouds above had finally broken, if only just above him. The gloom dispersed, allowing him to see the sun hanging just above.

Rand looked up at it. Then he smiled. Finally, he let out a deep-throated laugh, true and pure.

It had been far too long.

I think he will not be anymore a coldhearted killing machine with a mission, he will protect and serve so he will become the first male Aes Sedai after the AoL.

[Kalyahna]

Someone brought up the quote, "Belief and order give strength" on another thread and it got me thinking.  What if "Belief and order give strength" means that the more ppl who believe in Rand's ability to defeat the DO, the more strength he has to actually do it?

 

We've already seen a connection between Rand and the ppl when he fought Ishy above Falme.  When he faltered, the people on his side faltered (or vice versa depending on how you see that scene playing out), but when he pushed on, his ppl pushed on.

 

I'm more of the mind that "belief and order" are the Seanchan and the Whitecloaks, in that order. Yes, the Seanchan are all about rules and law, but the thing above all that they serve is their Empress. It's a form of worship, which is belief. And the Whitecloaks, although it may well only be Galad's group, especially with Galad at the helm, absolutely epitomize order.

 

The Falme thing to me was more about the Heroes from the Horn of Valere. At this point, no matter what Rand does, his change of personality could easily be passed off as a remnant of his craziness; he's not going to have the whole world behind HIM so much as I think he'll have the whole world behind their individual leaders, who happen to follow him because it's Tarmon Gaidon after all.

 

Various Fain comments:

I feel he most likely will be playing the part of Gollum to Rand's Frodo. He'll probably burst onto the scene in a moment that's completely inconvient to the combatants but it will be perfectly convenient to shift the fight in Rand's favor somehow.

 

Addendum to Fain - a part of me wonders if Fain will be the Ishamael for the next age. He'll be caught, but not completely, and some part of his nastiness will linger to corrupt people.

 

To live, you must die.

That's what the aliens told Rand. I for one think he'll survive. The whole point of his tears-inducing realization in the last chapter is that he has a chance to make things right. That is the point in being born again and again. It seems an awful lot to put the fans through to have Rand die after everything he's been through - and we've been through with him. Also, RJ has been horrible about permanently killing off ANYone, much less good guys. Maybe he's saving The Big Dramatic Event for the final bit.

 

No, I don't think everyone will live happily ever after, but that's already been made pretty clear in Nicola's foretelling - the last battle done, but the world not done with battle (or close to that). It's not going to be an Instant Win type of situation. There will be messes to clean up for all parties involved. I think the best we can hope for is that if Rand destroys the seals, he can effectively recreate the Bore and actually being SOME amount of peace to the world... once those pesky messes are cleaned up.

[Cut Strand]

I think it will end with Rand and the two women he circles with to use Callindor throwing a second Dragonmount onto the Bore.  It has symmetry with the prologue in The Eye of the World.

[Cirin]

Your theory about Rand surrendering to the Seanchan is fascinating. To be honest, it would be a very practical solution to a great many problems. Provided Tuon can be convinced to allow the marathdamane to run about free until the Shadow is defeated, I think it would work very well. Downside? Egwene will roast Rand on a spit for that decision- which would fill Elaida's Foretelling about him knowing the anger of the Amyrlin. The beginning of the next age will be a tale told in blood just like this age.

 

I think he'll likely just make a deal with them that they can keep what they have, and they won't fight until after this Last Battle.  That alone might be enough to tick off Egwene, like you suggested.  I could also see the Seanchan's slaver ways as serving a purpose ultimately too - stilling is no longer permament, the Oath Rod, they discovered, can be circumvented - maybe Rand will make a deal that the Seanchan can chain Black Ajah, criminals, etc.  I could see that being a compromise that is worked out, although Egwene would still likely get angry about it.

[Lironah]

My theory about the end.  Eclipse begins, Rand dies, eclipse ends, Rand lives again somehow. "Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.  Once for mourning, once for birth."

[micah alliashadi]

 

someone wrote this...........

 

 

You just reminded me of something there, Bob, when you mentioned how the Seanchan do indeed seem to personify Order...

 

Fel's note - Belief and Order give strength...

 

Anyone know what the Old Tongue for Belief is?

 

the aiel and the tuathan represent the most devout believers, i believe..........damn puns!!

 

 

[algspkr]

 

someone wrote this...........

 

 

You just reminded me of something there, Bob, when you mentioned how the Seanchan do indeed seem to personify Order...

 

Fel's note - Belief and Order give strength...

 

Anyone know what the Old Tongue for Belief is?

 

the aiel and the tuathan represent the most devout believers, i believe..........damn puns!!

 

 

 

Aiel is dedicated not belief, but the tuathan do seem to personify belief. 

[Luckers]

My theory about the end.  Eclipse begins, Rand dies, eclipse ends, Rand lives again somehow. "Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.  Once for mourning, once for birth."

 

My theory about the end. Eclipse begins. Rand balefires Edward. Elcipse Ends. The Dark One (Bella) fulfils her thoughts that she can't live without Edward and pines in a bed until she dies six months later.

 

In my theory, Jacob's abbs are the light. Not really relavent I suppose, just putting it out there.

[Deadsy]

So maybe we should use Bela to seal the hole in the Bore  :D

 

Best idea yet.

[TheDecline01]

I've had a moment of peculiar clarity, or total uselessness, during which I told myself:

 

Why would the Creator bound Shai'tan to Shayol Ghul and then never interfere ever again?

Why would the Dark One winning meaning the end of time, pattern, existence etc... What's next?

 

And I thought :

 

What if, the Dark One wins, the pattern unravels and everything cease to exist?

Well, the Creator could come and see that his/her/its creation is gone, and... simply recreate it, re-bounding Shai'tan to Shayol Ghul as being a bad kid and so the Wheel returns again. That way, the Creator never interferes with events in the world, just creating it back.

 

Does it sound totally superior dumbness or is there sense in this?

 

To me, that would be an end, I don't know whether satisfactory or not, but seems logical with the whole idea of the Wheel. Although I don't think that fits with the whole story that has been going on in the books.

[Deadsy]

I don't know whether satisfactory or not

 

Do you really not know whether that would be satisfactory?

 

If that was the ending I'd try to unlearn how to read =oP

[TheDecline01]

Let's say not satisfactory in a reader's sense, but quite satisfactory in a logical sense. I mean, I am sometimes tired of grand endings where everything's solved and the good is very happy or the bad is very bad. Why about a neutral ending? I don't mean I like that as a reader who wants to know it all and have his mind be blown away, but it makes sense.

[Owayn The Traveller]

It can't imagine it being a thoroughly happy ending. The Dark One will be defeated but there will be serious losses on the light side and also turmoil and anarchy in the various nations and organisations. If it is a happy ending I for one will not be happy.

 

Also I just can't see Fain just being a pale shadow of Gollum. Fain is his own character and will be involved but in his own special way. Ah bless, he does try so.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Malazan Book of the Fallen Spoilers!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can see TG being a world wide scale event (at least the Battle) being something like the defeat of the Pannion Domin in Malazan Book of the Fallen series, Memories of Ice.

 

Whiskeyjack is dead, a whole heap of others are dead, they win, but the whole army is basically decimated.

 

 

[Wonzer]

There's funny paradox in the series. RJ said that it's indeed posible for DO to win. However wheel has no begining so it has already turned infinite number of rounds. If there is mathematically a chance for something happening, no matter how small chance, and it's tryed infinite number of times it WILL happen. So there is a chance for DO to win but he hasn't won after infinite number of ages. Sometimes I hate myself for thinking too scientificly :P

[yoniy0]

You're assuming that the Wheel doesn't learn as it goes along. If the probability of the DO escaping at each turn decays at a quick enough rate, there could still be a non-unity probability of him/her/it escaping.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Indeed, also, that is scientifically based, which is not always the case.

 

It isnt like the toss of a dice, where things are based on chance, the Wheel, in the form of Taveren and other such mechanisms, are the pattern correcting itself.

 

I dont think you can apply this sort of scientific reasoning to something so complex.

As i was saying with the dice, it is simply 6 unchanged dimensions, thus, if u threw them long enough, 1 must come up 100 times in a row.

 

However, the pattern and circumstances are always changing, just like RJ said Fain is the "unknown" in this particular turning.