The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Aquarius]

I dont think he has used saidin since the balefire cross. He uses the TP exclusively

... except (if the theory holds) when Rand has the sickness without doing anything (in KoD ??). Moridin must have used Saidin at that moment.

[Crael123]

moridin only uses TP

[Aquarius]

moridin only uses TP

Mmmm that sounds pretty final. I would love to be so sure of myself without actually beeing the guy who wrote the thing. Congratualtion

[JakeBarnes]

Alright so here is my take on the BUT, after reading 4-6 I got stuck on one thing. I actually read this bit right after I had been reading in this thread. Just for reference im gonna start with a quote of the BUT clues (posted by some guy above).

 

[His Take]

 

 

 

I don't think anything dealing with Demandred would qualify, because he first comes into the story during LoC.  Even casual readers would pick up on that, so I doubt Brandon would be unsure of the exact starting point of the BUT if this were it.

[Crael123]

moridin only uses TP

Mmmm that sounds pretty final. I would love to be so sure of myself without actually beeing the guy who wrote the thing. Congratualtion

 

well umm when exactly have we seen him use anything except true power? and from what we have seen moridin only has used TP and he is clearly addicted too it based on the saa in his eyes. so look at it from that point of view. if you can find a place written in the books were moridin uses saidin, i will stand corrected. but from what i remember, moridin has only used  TP which goes too the conclusion that he only uses TP.

[Aquarius]

moridin only uses TP

Mmmm that sounds pretty final. I would love to be so sure of myself without actually beeing the guy who wrote the thing. Congratualtion

 

well umm when exactly have we seen him use anything except true power? and from what we have seen moridin only has used TP and he is clearly addicted too it based on the saa in his eyes. so look at it from that point of view. if you can find a place written in the books were moridin uses saidin, i will stand corrected. but from what i remember, moridin has only used  TP which goes too the conclusion that he only uses TP.

Indeed. But we've seen Rand sick when he seise Saidin, we've seen Moridin's hand hurting him, we've seen Moridin **not** sick when he uses TP, and last we've seen Rand sick without trying to channel. From all this, many people deduce that one gets sick when the other seizes saidin. That's not conclusive, of course, but no less than "I've never seen Moridin use Saidin so he doesn't ever"

[Tragon]

Alright so here is my take on the BUT, after reading 4-6 I got stuck on one thing. I actually read this bit right after I had been reading in this thread. Just for reference im gonna start with a quote of the BUT clues (posted by some guy above).

 

[His Take]

 

 

 

I don't think anything dealing with Demandred would qualify, because he first comes into the story during LoC.  Even casual readers would pick up on that, so I doubt Brandon would be unsure of the exact starting point of the BUT if this were it.

 

You missed the point. Its not about demandred at all. Its about the Dark one and its plans. None has even questioned what the dark one is behind. And the hint we get is that the DA has been planning almost everything.

[NetSlider]

moridin only uses TP

Mmmm that sounds pretty final. I would love to be so sure of myself without actually beeing the guy who wrote the thing. Congratualtion

 

well umm when exactly have we seen him use anything except true power? and from what we have seen moridin only has used TP and he is clearly addicted too it based on the saa in his eyes. so look at it from that point of view. if you can find a place written in the books were moridin uses saidin, i will stand corrected. but from what i remember, moridin has only used  TP which goes too the conclusion that he only uses TP.

Indeed. But we've seen Rand sick when he seise Saidin, we've seen Moridin's hand hurting him, we've seen Moridin **not** sick when he uses TP, and last we've seen Rand sick without trying to channel. From all this, many people deduce that one gets sick when the other seizes saidin. That's not conclusive, of course, but no less than "I've never seen Moridin use Saidin so he doesn't ever"

Wait, so now people think that Rand gets sick when Moridin holds saidin...no offense but that's just dumb. We don't know if Moridin uses saidin or TP only (we only have conclusions, as was said), and we definitely do not know if Rand's sickness is completely related to balefire crossing (I personally think it is not related to it at all), but to say that one's actions have such a specific effect on another is not correct. For example, right before the DM visit, Rand gets sick on the street (right before he makes a choice of balefiring about half of the world). Does that mean that Moridin was holding saidin at that specific time? (unlikely, at the least). Same logic follows that when Rand holds TP (or saidin for that matter) Moridin should be sick. I don't remember EVER seeing Moridin sick (yes, physical thing about the hand is true and it is connected to balefire) but NOT SICK. MORIDIN HAS NEVER, NEVER, !!!NEVER!!! SHOWED ANY SICKNESS AT ANY TIME (well, besides being completely sick in the head :)...but I do understand that, he's a genius...).

[Nightstrike]

If I recall correctly, there has been instances when Rand saw Moridin's face while Rand wasn't the one seizing saidin. (I think the face looked ill in Rand's opinion.) Moridin has been channeling TP exclusively for a long time. He probably gets sick when he seizes saidin.  

 

I think it's because of the TP/OP Balefire streams crossing each other.

 

(Not the BUT, though...)

[KefkaPalazzo]

In the quote, it seems that he's about to say that it is mentioned in "all the books", but then he remembers that it isn't in one or two of the books after 4-6.

 

Perrin is absent from book 5, but IS in every book after that, so it's unlikely that it has to do with him.

So is Rand.

Mat is missing from PoD, since the house fell on him in CoS.  It might (read: throwaway theory) have to do with Mat visiting the Finn again for the rescue, HOW the finn got his memories, and what happens when someone visits the Finn more than once.

Egwene is in EVERY book

Along with Elayne

And Nynaeve

And the rest of the SAS (Siuan, Leane, etc.)

 

Anyone else have a relatively major character who is missing from a book after 6?

 

[NetSlider]

If I recall correctly, there has been instances when Rand saw Moridin's face while Rand wasn't the one seizing saidin. (I think the face looked ill in Rand's opinion.) Moridin has been channeling TP exclusively for a long time. He probably gets sick when he seizes saidin.  

 

I think it's because of the TP/OP Balefire streams crossing each other.

 

(Not the BUT, though...)

The only time I recall that Ishy was sick is after tGH. In regards to Rand seeing his face - he only saw him in SL and than in a "dream." Unless I'm missing something I really don't recall Rand seeing Moridin's face other times (unless those unclear visions,but they are unclear).

In regards to getting sick when seizing saidin - i really don't see how the connection with TP is made. I did not see anything that shows that the sickness is a result of TP use. 

[NetSlider]

Not to beat the dead horse, but also if there was a sickness from using TP other fosaken would know about it (in age of legends many years passed before people realized that TP is "evil." I'm sure that forsaken would know about the sickness (they probably at least tried using TP once or twice)).

[rollthedice]

I'm wondering why there's not more theories on the Aiel wearing the siswai'aman. I'm starting to heavily lean in that direction.

 

 

Not to redirect, but I like this one too.  

 

Could it be that all of these Siswai'aman can or can learn to channel?  Before Rand, male channelers were rare.  Now the Black Tower fills in a years time.  Before Rand all Aiel with the spark head for the blight, where do they go now?  What else could cross all clan lines, including Gai'shain and bond them together?  Rand can teach how to mask now so who would know? Wont they be a nice surprise?  One of their duties is to guard the traveling tents, how convenient.  Where was it that we hear about them but everyone pretends as though they do not exists?  Also, why else would there be no maidens?

[Crael123]

Not to beat the dead horse, but also if there was a sickness from using TP other fosaken would know about it (in age of legends many years passed before people realized that TP is "evil." I'm sure that forsaken would know about the sickness (they probably at least tried using TP once or twice)).

 

that is why they were all so shocked that he was using it so much

[Crael123]

I'm wondering why there's not more theories on the Aiel wearing the siswai'aman. I'm starting to heavily lean in that direction.

 

 

Not to redirect, but I like this one too.  

 

Could it be that all of these Siswai'aman can or can learn to channel?  Before Rand, male channelers were rare.  Now the Black Tower fills in a years time.  Before Rand all Aiel with the spark head for the blight, where do they go now?  What else could cross all clan lines, including Gai'shain and bond them together?  Rand can teach how to mask now so who would know? Wont they be a nice surprise?  One of their duties is to guard the traveling tents, how convenient.  Where was it that we hear about them but everyone pretends as though they do not exists?

 

the siswai'aman are just other aeil from other.... cant remember the word... organizations? like stone dogs, red sheilds etc; in other words NON maidens who want to carry the car'a'carn's honor and are jealous of the maidens. siswai'aman literally means "spears of the dragon"

[Nightstrike]

The only time I recall that Ishy was sick is after tGH. In regards to Rand seeing his face - he only saw him in SL and than in a "dream." Unless I'm missing something I really don't recall Rand seeing Moridin's face other times (unless those unclear visions,but they are unclear).

In regards to getting sick when seizing saidin - i really don't see how the connection with TP is made. I did not see anything that shows that the sickness is a result of TP use.

WH, 22 mentions Rand getting sick & seeing Moridin. Rand didn't seize the power. I searched on Moridin in encyclopaedia WoT, and they mentioned Moridin looking sick & furious to Rand.

 

[Not to beat the dead horse, but also if there was a sickness from using TP other fosaken would know about it (in age of legends many years passed before people realized that TP is "evil." I'm sure that forsaken would know about the sickness (they probably at least tried using TP once or twice)).

There are drawbacks to using the TP, but this was when Rand seizes saidin. Moridin as well, most likely (seizing saidin).

 

 

(Not the BUT, though...)

 

[shadowkiller_001]

I'm wondering why there's not more theories on the Aiel wearing the siswai'aman. I'm starting to heavily lean in that direction.

 

 

Not to redirect, but I like this one too.  

 

Could it be that all of these Siswai'aman can or can learn to channel?  Before Rand, male channelers were rare.  Now the Black Tower fills in a years time.  Before Rand all Aiel with the spark head for the blight, where do they go now?  What else could cross all clan lines, including Gai'shain and bond them together?  Rand can teach how to mask now so who would know? Wont they be a nice surprise?  One of their duties is to guard the traveling tents, how convenient.  Where was it that we hear about them but everyone pretends as though they do not exists?

 

the siswai'aman are just other aeil from other.... cant remember the word... organizations? like stone dogs, red sheilds etc; in other words NON maidens who want to carry the car'a'carn's honor and are jealous of the maidens. siswai'aman literally means "spears of the dragon"

 

This is how I understood the siswai' too. They have devoted themselves to the Dragon and are jealous of the maidens because they want to "carry his honor". Maybe the other Aiel pretend it doesn't exist because none of them treat rand differently than a clan chief except the siswai' who treat him more like a king or something...

[NetSlider]

The only time I recall that Ishy was sick is after tGH. In regards to Rand seeing his face - he only saw him in SL and than in a "dream." Unless I'm missing something I really don't recall Rand seeing Moridin's face other times (unless those unclear visions,but they are unclear).

In regards to getting sick when seizing saidin - i really don't see how the connection with TP is made. I did not see anything that shows that the sickness is a result of TP use.

WH, 22 mentions Rand getting sick & seeing Moridin. Rand didn't seize the power. I searched on Moridin in encyclopaedia WoT, and they mentioned Moridin looking sick & furious to Rand.

 

[Not to beat the dead horse, but also if there was a sickness from using TP other fosaken would know about it (in age of legends many years passed before people realized that TP is "evil." I'm sure that forsaken would know about the sickness (they probably at least tried using TP once or twice)).

There are drawbacks to using the TP, but this was when Rand seizes saidin. Moridin as well, most likely (seizing saidin).

 

 

(Not the BUT, though...)

 

 

Are u sure it's in ch.22 of WH. I've just checked it and there is nothing about moridin looking sick and furious to Rand (I've used http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org).

[rollthedice]

I see your points and they are valid, but it seemed odd that they would abandon both clan and sept.  

 

I was also thinking about the whole culling point that they stress in the tower.  If the Wise Ones that channel can marry and have children, would that not mean that the chances of males that can channel increase?  And If so, where are they going now?

[Nightstrike]

Are u sure it's in ch.22 of WH.

No, not in that chapter. It was in other places. So both get sick. Not just one of them.

 

What I meant with that chapter reference was that Rand has been sick without seizing saidin first.

 

 

[DemandredFO]

I think the siswi'man theory has merits.  Taim remarks that he only for three men who could channel but Rand draws them, so it could be.  As for the sparkers among Aielman right now Rand and Logain are the only one's able to train them or Logain's Ashaman.  We saw Rand tell the sea folk they must stop killing men because Saidin is clean but do we know if he's told the WO and the clan chiefs to stop letting men go north.  I'll say one thing, a channeling Aiel army could do large amounts of damage to the enemy.

[NetSlider]

Are u sure it's in ch.22 of WH.

No, not in that chapter. It was in other places. So both get sick. Not just one of them.

 

What I meant with that chapter reference was that Rand has been sick without seizing saidin first.

 

 

 

I know that this is off topic (the whole sickness discussion) but I just want to get to the bottom of this. And I don't want to come out rude or anything, but the fact that he does get sick without using saidin does not mean that it is connected to Moridin in any way. In regards to Moridin getting sick, once again I don't remember anywhere this being mentioned. In WH or other places. I might be wrong on this (I'm not RJ to know or remember everything about WoT) but if you say that there are references to "Moridin's sickness" please specify. Once again, I know that this is off topic, but for some reason a lot of people take Rand's sickness as something he shares with Moridin and I think that this is not so. IMO Rand's sickness has nothing to do with Moridin, balefire crossing, or TP. 

[viscious]

I'm wondering why there's not more theories on the Aiel wearing the siswai'aman. I'm starting to heavily lean in that direction.

 

 

Not to redirect, but I like this one too.  

 

Could it be that all of these Siswai'aman can or can learn to channel?  Before Rand, male channelers were rare.  Now the Black Tower fills in a years time.  Before Rand all Aiel with the spark head for the blight, where do they go now?  What else could cross all clan lines, including Gai'shain and bond them together?  Rand can teach how to mask now so who would know? Wont they be a nice surprise?  One of their duties is to guard the traveling tents, how convenient.  Where was it that we hear about them but everyone pretends as though they do not exists?

 

the siswai'aman are just other aeil from other.... cant remember the word... organizations? like stone dogs, red sheilds etc; in other words NON maidens who want to carry the car'a'carn's honor and are jealous of the maidens. siswai'aman literally means "spears of the dragon"

 

The word you are looking for is societies, and that is not what the siswai'aman are.  We don't really know what they are, the closest thing to describe them would be societies within societies.  In other words, stone dogs, red shields etc, can also be siswai'aman.  The only society that doesn't have members in the siswai'aman are the maidens, and we don't know why. 

 

They are quite different from other aiel, and it is never explained.  When rand asks the chiefs and the wise ones, they blow him off and we assume is has something to do with ji'e'toh. 

 

If you go back to dumai wells, Perrin tries to convince rhuarc to send the aiel armies after rand, but rhuarc says he can only send siswai'aman, because he can't trust that any other aiel will fight aes' sedai. 

 

Out of all the theories I've read on this thread, this seems to fit the criteria the best.  It was first mentioned in books 4-6 (5 i believe), they have been mentioned ever since in small doses, it has never been fully explained, and I don't believe there has been much discussion on it.  Not saying this is the BUT, however it does fit quite well.  Also with them wearing the headbands, i can see how that would be similar to the mistborn clue Brandon gave.  I think Brandon said it was a puzzle that we should have picked up upon when it was first mentioned.  Again, I think this fits quite well.

 

I am not convinced they can channel, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is something to them that hasn't been figured out yet. 

[morkhon]

Out of all the theories I've read on this thread, this seems to fit the criteria the best.   It was first mentioned in books 4-6 (5 i believe), they have been mentioned ever since in small doses, it has never been fully explained, and I don't believe there has been much discussion on it.   Not saying this is the BUT, however it does fit quite well.   Also with them wearing the headbands, i can see how that would be similar to the mistborn clue Brandon gave.  I think Brandon said it was a puzzle that we should have picked up upon when it was first mentioned.   Again, I think this fits quite well.

My thinking as well. The fact people don't seem to be making a bigger deal out of this is what draws me towards it the most, as it fits what Brandon said. It seems like a more profound movement and offers more significance than simply 'they're jealous of the Maidens'.

[Casabamelon]

 

You missed the point. Its not about demandred at all. Its about the Dark one and its plans. None has even questioned what the dark one is behind. And the hint we get is that the DA has been planning almost everything.

 

Wait, what? I thought this was a Wheel of Time forum. What the h3ll does Dumbledore's Army have to do with anything?