The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[arick123]

2 thoughts on the big unoticed thing in books 4-6:

1) Why don't the Seanchan Ogier suffer from the Longing.

2) The false prophecy Ishael put into the Seanchan version of the Prophecies of the Dragon.  I don't remember the exact quote.  Something about when he was contolling Arthur Hawkwing and he sent an altered version of the prophecies which will cause problems in the future.  Since there is nothing in the Randland vesion about the Dragon bowing to the Crystal Throne, I'm guessing that is one of the false threads Ishmael inserted.  It is cetainly causing problems for Rand in his efforts to get a truce with Tuon.

 

 

[Sharaman]

2 thoughts on the big unoticed thing in books 4-6:

1) Why don't the Seanchan Ogier suffer from the Longing.

2) The false prophecy Ishael put into the Seanchan version of the Prophecies of the Dragon.  I don't remember the exact quote.  Something about when he was contolling Arthur Hawkwing and he sent an altered version of the prophecies which will cause problems in the future.  Since there is nothing in the Randland vesion about the Dragon bowing to the Crystal Throne, I'm guessing that is one of the false threads Ishmael inserted.  It is cetainly causing problems for Rand in his efforts to get a truce with Tuon.

 

Both noticed.

1) RJ answered the first question -there were many more stedding on the Seanchan continent post-Breaking. So the Seanchan Ogier never had the sort of deprivation that led to the longing.

2) The differences between the prophesies have been noted and RJ has also talked about them. Also the Seanchan prophesies were first mentioned in Book VIII. Here's a good explanation http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/prohecies-of-dragon.html

 

[JakeBarnes]

Did anyone ever ask RJ about the Fat Man?

[morkhon]

Has the Dragon Sceptre been mentioned? Probably a non issue now that it's been destroyed.

[mossman87]

Did anyone ever ask RJ about the Fat Man?

 

As far as I know, nope.  I think everyone completely forgot about it until a few of us started brainstorming on this.

 

I'll check the quotes though, and will edit this if I find anything.

 

Edit: Can't find anything, and if you google it seriously no one has a clue.

[bronnt]

Then send someone to talk to him, or a small army, don't send your whole army away from guarding their homes leaving their countries unprotected.

 

They didn't leave their homes unprotected.  They left enough of a force to hold the Borderlands for anything save the Trolloc Wars starting again, per tPoD prologue.  While that 100k army they assembled seems very formidable, it can't be more than half of their total strength, and perhaps is no more than 1/3 of their strength, not counting that any peasant or merchant will pick up a sword in times of need.

[mossman87]

Then send someone to talk to him, or a small army, don't send your whole army away from guarding their homes leaving their countries unprotected.

 

They didn't leave their homes unprotected.  They left enough of a force to hold the Borderlands for anything save the Trolloc Wars starting again, per tPoD prologue.  While that 100k army they assembled seems very formidable, it can't be more than half of their total strength, and perhaps is no more than 1/3 of their strength, not counting that any peasant or merchant will pick up a sword in times of need.

 

They have over 200k in Far Madding.

 

Edit: This is a pretty good read:

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2010/02/path-of-daggers-read-through-2.html

 

The four Borderland rulers are annoyed with Rand because he has ignored them and the potential peril their lands are in. So what do they do? All four rulers, not just one of them or their emissaries, leave their lands with their counsellors or household heads and a large part of their forces for months to wander around in the south in the very way they found objectionable in Rand. Brilliant.

 

They are incensed that Rand has supposedly ignored them, but they owe him a great debt. He used the Eye of the World to save them from Trollocs which Agelmar believed would overrun Shienar at the least when the Eye should have been used for Tarmon Gai’don. The monarchs should be even more angry with the White Tower, which has done nothing, but they are quite happy to have thirteen sisters potter along with them in the south for months.

 

If ever there was evidence that the rulers have been manipulated by the Shadow, this is it...

 

For a people that believe the Last Battle will be fought in the Blight, and has fought the Blight for centuries, you don't take your army and all of your leaders out of it.  It's nonsensical.

[johnnysd]

OK. I have a thought. But I am not sure if it is mentioned in Book 4 at all, but maybe it is but in a slightly different way that we may be missing.

 

I think that the Big Thing might be the swirling colors. If it started in Book 4, then it seems to really fit. I don't remember a whole lot of discussion specific to it or it being tied to any specific theory.

 

Any chance?

[mossman87]

OK. I have a thought. But I am not sure if it is mentioned in Book 4 at all, but maybe it is but in a slightly different way that we may be missing.

 

I think that the Big Thing might be the swirling colors. If it started in Book 4, then it seems to really fit. I don't remember a whole lot of discussion specific to it or it being tied to any specific theory.

 

Any chance?

 

We pretty much know the purpose of the swirling colors, so it isn't a hidden thing or puzzle.  The connection with the 3 ta'veren will definitely play a major role in the books though, that's for sure.

[lordrains]

Was the female choden cal destroyed or was it just the ter angel?

 

[mossman87]

Was the female choden cal destroyed or was it just the ter angel?

 

 

Destroyed in Tremalking, made the Amayar all kill themselves.

[johnnysd]

OK. I have a thought. But I am not sure if it is mentioned in Book 4 at all, but maybe it is but in a slightly different way that we may be missing.

 

I think that the Big Thing might be the swirling colors. If it started in Book 4, then it seems to really fit. I don't remember a whole lot of discussion specific to it or it being tied to any specific theory.

 

Any chance?

 

 

 

We pretty much know the purpose of the swirling colors, so it isn't a hidden thing or puzzle.  The connection with the 3 ta'veren will definitely play a major role in the books though, that's for sure.

 

So what is the agreed upon purpose?

[mossman87]

OK. I have a thought. But I am not sure if it is mentioned in Book 4 at all, but maybe it is but in a slightly different way that we may be missing.

 

I think that the Big Thing might be the swirling colors. If it started in Book 4, then it seems to really fit. I don't remember a whole lot of discussion specific to it or it being tied to any specific theory.

 

Any chance?

 

 

We pretty much know the purpose of the swirling colors, so it isn't a hidden thing or puzzle.  The connection with the 3 ta'veren will definitely play a major role in the books though, that's for sure.

 

So what is the agreed upon purpose?

 

It's allowing the 3 to see eachother, so most likely to coordinate in the future or definitely something more powerful we don't know about yet.  It's not a mystery or anything though.

 

[johnnysd]

OK. I have a thought. But I am not sure if it is mentioned in Book 4 at all, but maybe it is but in a slightly different way that we may be missing.

 

I think that the Big Thing might be the swirling colors. If it started in Book 4, then it seems to really fit. I don't remember a whole lot of discussion specific to it or it being tied to any specific theory.

 

Any chance?

 

 

We pretty much know the purpose of the swirling colors, so it isn't a hidden thing or puzzle.  The connection with the 3 ta'veren will definitely play a major role in the books though, that's for sure.

 

So what is the agreed upon purpose?

\

It's allowing the 3 to see eachother, so most likely to coordinate in the future or definitely something more powerful we don't know about yet.  It's not a mystery or anything though.

 

 

 

OK. So this is exactly why I think it might be the hidden thing. We just all assume that the swirling colors are exactl what you said. We don't discuss them we just srt of assume that they are exactly what we think they are no more no less...like just an earring. But what if the colors turn out to be part of something muh much bigger and more imprtant than we were thinking. If sthe colors exist it book 4 I really think that this is the thing.

[mossman87]

I dunno I take it being a hidden thing and a puzzle that should have been solved when we saw it as something not so out in the open like that.  Yeah we don't know the specifics, but it's been talked to death and it's in no way a small thing.  I can see your reasoning though if you don't agree with it being out there and such.

 

Edit: Basically, like Rand's dad that someone brought up earlier, I just don't want to get into the gray area of, "Well it might not be what we're told." because then we'll go crazy with absolutely everything.  But I guess that's half the fun.  :)

[Crael123]

no theory realy here but today i was rereading shadow rising and i read the part where rand was attacked b his own reflection and it mentioned the wound on his side was only about an inch in diameter. am i the only one that thought that it was a huge gash on his side like, 4 to 5 inches or so? i was surprised.

[JediMindTrick]

After sleeping on my idea that Jindain might somehow be alive I considered another possibility.   If it was Slayer / Luc that supposedly killed him then it would also likely be Slayer / Luc that imprisoned him.  About the first time we see Slayer / Luc is in the wolf dream when Perrin sees him going into the tower of ghenjei.   This is where we all assume Mat is going next book so could it be possible that he'll be rescuing more than just Moraine?  

 

I'm probably wrong but I would tend to think that my idea is closer to truth than the thing being some angreal, terangreal, or something like that.   Vin's earring was something that was basically just mentioned in passing and at the time was just meant to give us some insight to her character.   She wears an earring as a token of remembrance . . . .how sweet.    That makes me think the thing Brandon was talking about deals with something similar about Rand or some other major character's history or persona that we all just take as being a minor descriptive detail but is going to really matter.  Thats why I think its going to be something directly about a character or characters rather than about an item(s) someone finds that has no direct connection to anyone.  My thought of Jindain being alive fits this because it is a major issue to Rand if he's alive though who is father actually was is a pretty minor detail as it could have been any Aiel.   And his heritage is something that constantly gets talked about in all the remaining books in a way whenever the Maidens of the Spear talk about Rand's heritage and how is the the child of the Maiden that was returned to them.  And its in books 4-6 where this really first gets talked about seriously since thats where Rand learns his heritage, where he chooses the Maidens to carry his honor, and such.  

 

But what's the puzzle that should have been solved at the time?  The puzzle if he's alive?  We were told he was killed so there wasn't any puzzle, unless you mean we're supposed to question everything we're told and then that makes everything a puzzle.

 

What was Luc / Slayer doing in the tower of Ghenjei?   I haven't quite finished SR again but I don't remember that being answered the first time.   My theory is that this is where Jindain is being held. 

[mossman87]

After sleeping on my idea that Jindain might somehow be alive I considered another possibility.   If it was Slayer / Luc that supposedly killed him then it would also likely be Slayer / Luc that imprisoned him.  About the first time we see Slayer / Luc is in the wolf dream when Perrin sees him going into the tower of ghenjei.   This is where we all assume Mat is going next book so could it be possible that he'll be rescuing more than just Moraine?  

 

I'm probably wrong but I would tend to think that my idea is closer to truth than the thing being some angreal, terangreal, or something like that.   Vin's earring was something that was basically just mentioned in passing and at the time was just meant to give us some insight to her character.   She wears an earring as a token of remembrance . . . .how sweet.    That makes me think the thing Brandon was talking about deals with something similar about Rand or some other major character's history or persona that we all just take as being a minor descriptive detail but is going to really matter.  Thats why I think its going to be something directly about a character or characters rather than about an item(s) someone finds that has no direct connection to anyone.  My thought of Jindain being alive fits this because it is a major issue to Rand if he's alive though who is father actually was is a pretty minor detail as it could have been any Aiel.   And his heritage is something that constantly gets talked about in all the remaining books in a way whenever the Maidens of the Spear talk about Rand's heritage and how is the the child of the Maiden that was returned to them.  And its in books 4-6 where this really first gets talked about seriously since thats where Rand learns his heritage, where he chooses the Maidens to carry his honor, and such.  

 

But what's the puzzle that should have been solved at the time?  The puzzle if he's alive?  We were told he was killed so there wasn't any puzzle, unless you mean we're supposed to question everything we're told and then that makes everything a puzzle.

 

What was Luc / Slayer doing in the tower of Ghenjei?   I haven't quite finished SR again but I don't remember that being answered the first time.   My theory is that this is where Jindain is being held. 

 

He was trying to get him to go in, Birgitte said as much when she stopped him.

[Dreamwalker]

After sleeping on my idea that Jindain might somehow be alive I considered another possibility.   If it was Slayer / Luc that supposedly killed him then it would also likely be Slayer / Luc that imprisoned him.  About the first time we see Slayer / Luc is in the wolf dream when Perrin sees him going into the tower of ghenjei.   This is where we all assume Mat is going next book so could it be possible that he'll be rescuing more than just Moraine?  

 

I'm probably wrong but I would tend to think that my idea is closer to truth than the thing being some angreal, terangreal, or something like that.   Vin's earring was something that was basically just mentioned in passing and at the time was just meant to give us some insight to her character.   She wears an earring as a token of remembrance . . . .how sweet.    That makes me think the thing Brandon was talking about deals with something similar about Rand or some other major character's history or persona that we all just take as being a minor descriptive detail but is going to really matter.  Thats why I think its going to be something directly about a character or characters rather than about an item(s) someone finds that has no direct connection to anyone.  My thought of Jindain being alive fits this because it is a major issue to Rand if he's alive though who is father actually was is a pretty minor detail as it could have been any Aiel.   And his heritage is something that constantly gets talked about in all the remaining books in a way whenever the Maidens of the Spear talk about Rand's heritage and how is the the child of the Maiden that was returned to them.  And its in books 4-6 where this really first gets talked about seriously since thats where Rand learns his heritage, where he chooses the Maidens to carry his honor, and such.  

 

But what's the puzzle that should have been solved at the time?  The puzzle if he's alive?  We were told he was killed so there wasn't any puzzle, unless you mean we're supposed to question everything we're told and then that makes everything a puzzle.

 

What was Luc / Slayer doing in the tower of Ghenjei?   I haven't quite finished SR again but I don't remember that being answered the first time.   My theory is that this is where Jindain is being held. 

 

Ok, I'm really not trying to be a jerk (please don't get mad guys!), but everyone seems to have started using this weird name, so: Rand's dad = Janduin not Jindain.

[FarShainMael]

Yes, be kind to the search engine, everyone!  :D  8)

 

[NetSlider]

I was away for a bit. Here's what I thought with fresh approach to this thing - this big thing pretty much has something to do with Rand (in order to be BIG unnoticed thing). Well, if it started in book 4 than we should think about tSR and what Rand does. The book is pretty big and a lot of things happen to a lot of charters, but Rand basically is in Tear and than the Waist. If in Tear, it most like has something to do with the Finns or angreal stash. I think that it is really weird that when all of the Forsaken are looking for angreal and sa'angreal the one that sits on the whole stash did use one of them against Rand in Tear in tDR (even the same fat man). Instead Moraine killed him. Interestingly enough, we don't find out about the stash until book 4 and I really did not see that being mentioned anywhere. So, why didn't Be'lal use an item from the stash? So the fat man is probably the only thing that's from Tear from tSR that is being repeated books 4-6 and even mentioned later on.

 

In concern to the Waist, it can be a lot of things, but the one that's being referenced frequently is Rand's parents. Also, and this was discussed earlier, I think that the Seanchen armor might be it as well. It was introduced in book 1 but only after book 4 we see it connected to the Age of Legend. 

[Aquarius]

How are we supposed to understand the "it begins between book 4-6"

Is it supposed to be something that STARTS in book 4 and somewhat STOPS at book 6 ? Or could it start in book 6 only and Brandon was purposefully vague about the actuall book ?

[NetSlider]

How are we supposed to understand the "it begins between book 4-6"

Is it supposed to be something that STARTS in book 4 and somewhat STOPS at book 6 ? Or could it start in book 6 only and Brandon was purposefully vague about the actuall book ?

 

I always thought that it was "introduced" (the word which may imply almost anything. there are MANY ways an introduction or lead-in on anything can be made and classified as "introduced") in book 4 and was more frequently mentioned through book 6. And now it is still very vaugely referenced in books, but not as it was in book 4-6. That's at least what I got.

 

 

[Aquarius]

I always thought that it was "introduced" (the word which may imply almost anything. there are MANY ways an introduction or lead-in on anything can be made and classified as "introduced") in book 4 and was more frequently mentioned through book 6. And now it is still very vaugely referenced in books, but not as it was in book 4-6. That's at least what I got.

Fat man angreal ftw !

[Sharaman]

How are we supposed to understand the "it begins between book 4-6"

Is it supposed to be something that STARTS in book 4 and somewhat STOPS at book 6 ? Or could it start in book 6 only and Brandon was purposefully vague about the actuall book ?

 

I assumed that he was vague about the exact book but it was introduced somewhere in these three books and continues being referenced somewhere in the background. So discounted anything that appeared first after book 6 and stuff that occured before Book 4.

 

The fat man angreal hasn't been mentioned since CoS IIRC - so it's not continued. It's there only between 4-6 and rand thinks of it only in 7 when he can't find it at Dumai's Wells or the palace.