The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Sentinel78]

Spoke too soon.  Here's Post #24 from that link on Theoryland:

 

A random thought:

There was reported to be war in Shara much earlier in the series... perhaps we will see the results as Sharan armies march to support Rand... seems unlikely as Rand's plotline shouldn't have much time in ToM.

 

and here's post #25:

 

LoC,Ch22 - Near the River Erinin, Chel Vanin and Mat find a burned Tinker camp with the people slaughtered. There is a message on a wagon, "Tell the Dragon Reborn."

 

This is the one mystery I can think of that doesn't get discussed much and what discussion there is devolves into "there's just not enough information."

 

 

Granted, if Shara shows up, I think they'll be fighting AGAINST Rand, probably from a perversion of the Dragon-prophecies.

 

[Auld Manriva]

"Tell the Dragon Reborn"........

 

Incomplete message? maybe, maybe not.

 

Why would a band of Tinkers be bearing a message meant for the DR?

 

If not; Why the urgency from this dead person that these, be their last words? To inform him simply that a group of Tinkers had been slaughtered? OR.. WHO slaughtered them? Who did slaughter them? Aiel? They don't attack Tinkers or so tradition holds...

 

Every time since this incident, Tinkers have been acting oddly have they not? Moving into Seanchan held land ... Settling in one place...

 

Personally I don't see how this has any effect on the major plot outcome though or advances it in any way.

[Sentinel78]

Peter apparently explicitly ruled out Posts #1 - #138 from the link Aleron688 posted above from being correct.  My quotes in my previous post are earlier posts from that link.  In other words, Shara/Tinkers both appear to be ruled out from BS's hint of the small detail with big ramifications that was missed.

[bushleague]

ARGH!!! LUCKERS!!!

 

This thread is going to destroy me.  We still have 11 months before the next book... this is going to be the new "who killed asmo?"... I can't resist it!!

 

While I'm here though, and not sure if its been mentioned, but what about Rand's Reluctance to return to the Two Rivers for fear of getting them killed?

 

It starts in TSR when he refuses to go home to help but wishes Perrin luck... he constantly refers to how he can never go home.

 

That being said I have no idea why it would be important, but I'm sure someone can come up with some ideas.

[Bob T Dwarf]

A "thing" that gets mentioned in TFoH, but hasn't been discussed and could possibly be significant to the plot is Birgitte's arrow.

 

When Moghedien cast her out of T'a'R, Birgitte somehow managed to hang onto one of her arrows, and although you are not supposed to be able to bring anything found in T'a'R out with you, she somehow managed it.

 

That automatically makes it a significant thing.  I've never seen it or why/how she was somehow able to bring it with her discussed.  Thus far Birgitte has never yet used that arrow.

[Sentinel78]

Maybe BS is trying to pull a Cadsuane and teach us something we need to learn; namely, in this case, that some endeavors are completely futile.  Anything could be buried in the 2400+ hardback pages that constitute Books 4-6.

[Zidel333]

(Member from 8 years ago, came back because TGS kicked ass and took names)

 

My theory?

 

It's mentioned in TGS that as Rand is belting on his new ancient sword that was found under some statue (where was this first mentioned?!) that he remembers the sword. Specifically, RAND HIMSELF remembers the sword, and LTT does not. (I can cite page numbers if requested).

 

From this, I gleam that the sword is probably Justice, or Artur Hawkwing's old weapon -- perhaps Rand WAS Artur back in the day, which would be awesome. This couples into the theory that one way that Rand will be able to defeat the DO is that he will call upon his many, many lives and memories and with their powers combined be able to fight him at the Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Also, this ties into Rand's Dragon-As-A-Behavioral-And-Physical-Metaphor as seen in the 13th Depository -- that is Rand as a Dragon or more appropriately as a Hydra is "many headed", through his Warder Bonds, through his Ta'veran links with Mat and Perrin, through LTT etc. etc. (http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/not-just-dragon-animal-symbolism.html#dragon).

 

So what does this have to do with the larger topic on hand? Only that books 4-6 is when Mat got and was most upset with his multitude of other memories taking over his life's more current memories. It's been so long that most people just accept this oddity about Mat and move on. We forget how unbelievably weird and freaky it is. And it's happening to Rand now. Yes, we know Rand remembers the Ansaline Gardens, and how Illyena's hair feels, etc. etc. but these are LTT's. The sword memories however implies something far more deeper, and disturbing.

[Aleron688]

A "thing" that gets mentioned in TFoH, but hasn't been discussed and could possibly be significant to the plot is Birgitte's arrow.

 

When Moghedien cast her out of T'a'R, Birgitte somehow managed to hang onto one of her arrows, and although you are not supposed to be able to bring anything found in T'a'R out with you, she somehow managed it.

 

That automatically makes it a significant thing.  I've never seen it or why/how she was somehow able to bring it with her discussed.  Thus far Birgitte has never yet used that arrow.

 

My response to that is that there were specific circumstances which allowed that to happen.  we have also never seen anyone Ripped out of TAR before either.  perhaps she just tore out the arrow with her...

[Aleron688]

(Member from 8 years ago, came back because TGS kicked ass and took names)

 

My theory?

 

It's mentioned in TGS that as Rand is belting on his new ancient sword that was found under some statue (where was this first mentioned?!) that he remembers the sword. Specifically, RAND HIMSELF remembers the sword, and LTT does not. (I can cite page numbers if requested).

 

From this, I gleam that the sword is probably Justice, or Artur Hawkwing's old weapon -- perhaps Rand WAS Artur back in the day, which would be awesome. This couples into the theory that one way that Rand will be able to defeat the DO is that he will call upon his many, many lives and memories and with their powers combined be able to fight him at the Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Also, this ties into Rand's Dragon-As-A-Behavioral-And-Physical-Metaphor as seen in the 13th Depository -- that is Rand as a Dragon or more appropriately as a Hydra is "many headed", through his Warder Bonds, through his Ta'veran links with Mat and Perrin, through LTT etc. etc. (http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/not-just-dragon-animal-symbolism.html#dragon).

 

So what does this have to do with the larger topic on hand? Only that books 4-6 is when Mat got and was most upset with his multitude of other memories taking over his life's more current memories. It's been so long that most people just accept this oddity about Mat and move on. We forget how unbelievably weird and freaky it is. And it's happening to Rand now. Yes, we know Rand remembers the Ansaline Gardens, and how Illyena's hair feels, etc. etc. but these are LTT's. The sword memories however implies something far more deeper, and disturbing.

 

I believe he saw the sword in Falme.  It is speculated that it is Artur Hawkwing's sword, probably given to his son, and now brought back with the Return... so as to Rand being Artur Hawkwing reborn... absolutely LUDICROUS! :)

[stormcrow]

(Member from 8 years ago, came back because TGS kicked ass and took names)

 

My theory?

 

It's mentioned in TGS that as Rand is belting on his new ancient sword that was found under some statue (where was this first mentioned?!) that he remembers the sword. Specifically, RAND HIMSELF remembers the sword, and LTT does not. (I can cite page numbers if requested).

 

From this, I gleam that the sword is probably Justice, or Artur Hawkwing's old weapon -- perhaps Rand WAS Artur back in the day, which would be awesome. This couples into the theory that one way that Rand will be able to defeat the DO is that he will call upon his many, many lives and memories and with their powers combined be able to fight him at the Tarmon Gai'don.

 

Also, this ties into Rand's Dragon-As-A-Behavioral-And-Physical-Metaphor as seen in the 13th Depository -- that is Rand as a Dragon or more appropriately as a Hydra is "many headed", through his Warder Bonds, through his Ta'veran links with Mat and Perrin, through LTT etc. etc. (http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/not-just-dragon-animal-symbolism.html#dragon).

 

So what does this have to do with the larger topic on hand? Only that books 4-6 is when Mat got and was most upset with his multitude of other memories taking over his life's more current memories. It's been so long that most people just accept this oddity about Mat and move on. We forget how unbelievably weird and freaky it is. And it's happening to Rand now. Yes, we know Rand remembers the Ansaline Gardens, and how Illyena's hair feels, etc. etc. but these are LTT's. The sword memories however implies something far more deeper, and disturbing.

Hawkwing's souls is tied to the pattern, and he recognized the Dragon as seperate from himself. I highly doubt they were one and the same. I know you make a distinction between "Dragon" and "Rand", but essentially they are the same soul. I also think the sword is Justice, and Rand seemed to have found it after KoD but before tGS. This is obviously just conjecture assuming that the sword actually is Justice, but Rand saw Hawkwing in Falme, and no one made any real descriptive comment on the sword Hawkwing was wearing.

 

Hawkwing was also a general, Mat serves that purpose now. Mat might even be the greatest general of the Age if he successfully incorporates all of those memories. Your last paragraph just fizzles out, I can't seem to understand what you are getting at.

[NegaWalker]

Remember, Rand saw Hawkwing draw and wield Justice when he was called by the Horn of Valere.

 

He knows the sword in his hand because he's seen it used before his eyes. Of course, the Justice that Hawkwing wielded when he was summoned isn't the same sword, except perhaps in a spiritual sense. An echo perhaps. Or a dream of the Sword made real.

[imperium3]

Could this big unnoticed thing be the whole business about Mat losing an eye in one of the last couple of books. It is alluded to pretty early (Min's visions I think), and remember Egwene's dream about him having blood streaming down his face?

 

Also it seems that mat is following the story of the Viking god Odin, who hung himself on the world tree for wisdom, and was known for carrying a magical spear and a wide-brimmed hat to conceal the eye he had lost, which he gave away in exchange for wisdom? Mat ticks nearly all the boxes there...

 

As a funny aside, remember when Nynaeve (I think it was Nynaeve) was looking for the Domination Band in Tanchico T'A'R and she found a Mercedes logo? A nice touch there.

[Bob T Dwarf]

My response to that is that there were specific circumstances which allowed that to happen.  we have also never seen anyone Ripped out of TAR before either.  perhaps she just tore out the arrow with her...

 

Since this thread is supposed to be about some "thing" mentioned in Books 4-6 that has been overlooked that will somehow be significant in the coming two books, how does that arrow not potentially qualify?

 

To those posting directly above: Whether Rand's new sword is Justice or not is irrelevant in this thread. Justice was seen in the second book, not in books 4-6.

 

Mat's eye has been speculated about endlessly, everywhere.  Sanderson would have surely seen at least one of those threads, so it can't be his eye.

[Sentinel78]

I was really going to give up thinking about this... But the Aelfinn/Eelfinn started in Book 4.  We know they have ties to Mat that he suspects let's them read his memories, or see what he is actually seeing...  Well....

 

What about Rand? Are they monitoring Rand too?  I mean, it seems like they track anybody who enters their realm for answers.  If so, who are they selling this information to?  Moridin?  Or how are they using it themselves?...

 

In the Path of Daggers prologue, Moridin says it's hard to lose a game when you're playing both sides.  Maybe he knows exactly what Rand is up to.  I mean, how the hell else did Moridin figure out he was going to remove the taint using the CK?  Moridin just showed up at a Forsaken meeting and had Cyndane explain this.  Cyndane who had RECENTLY BEEN RESCUED from the lands of the Aelfinn.  Lanfear/Cyndane could have told Moridin that Rand had access to the CK, but as far as we know the only indication that he was going to use this to cleanse the taint was in his question that he asked the Aelfinn (or Eelfinn, always get them mixed up).

 

This seems to meet all the criteria... ongoing event... started in Book 4... potentially huge ramifications... hints in a bunch of books, both through Mat and through Moridin's strange knowledge related to Rand's thinking and actions.

 

We also know that the Finns are going to have a big role to play in ToM, most likely through Mat but who knows what else.

 

Really, think about this and let me know what you think.

[jemron]

You know what else started in book four and has recurred throughout the books (specifically 4-6)?  NEED in TAR.  Last night my wife was reading TSR for the first time, and she came across the scene where Egwene is in TAR for the first time without the ring ter'angreal.  My wife was a bit confused by the Dream World and started asking me questions...

 

I realized that the whole thing with finding stuff in TAR with NEED is not only a recurring event (as some have speculated) but it can also be classified as a "thing" in the books that people aren't picking up on as much.

 

I know this has been mentioned before in this post, but I'm starting to think there is more to this, and one or more of those places that the super girls have visited in TAR based on NEED is/are significant.

 

Is there a list on-line somewhere (or does someone have the time to make one) that includes every single scene where this happens, and where/what the super girls and/or other characters saw during each of those times?

[Vulgir]

These are items in posts up to 138 from theory land that have been ruled out, as stated earlier in this post, i listed them on lunch break

 

Moggy creating Bridgette

Lilwein Shipless

Egwene’s Use of need in TAR

Nynaeve and Elyane using Need in TAR

Fel talking with Rand

Farstrider in Grendals lair

The Tinker’s Song

Message in blood from the Tinkers to “Tell the Dragon Reborn”

Demandred Massing Armies

Perrin and Finnland

The Ghoolam

Demandred’s interaction with the DO

Sistters sent to recapture Taim

Rest of the 13 BA

Who killed Sahra Covenry

Graendel meeting with Ilutrade

Doorway Ter”angreal

Fel’s Note to Min

TO live you must become Morridin “Die”

Morroianes wishes to the Finn

Rand’s Effect on the Weather “The Fisher King Theme”

The sword “Justice”

Taim Setting up the BT

The BA setting up Taim as the Dragon

War in Shara

Mind Traps

Moirraines Letters to Tom and Rand

Why Matt got the Ashandarei

Matt’s medallion

Avendesora

Missing Theodrin

 

If your path has anything to do with these items, your heading the wrong way

 

[jemron]

How have these been "ruled out"?  Who decided this?

[Sentinel78]

See earlier post on this thread.  Posts #1 - #138 on the theoryland.com thread on this subject were ruled out by Peter, BS's assistant, as being irrelevant or at least not on point with whatever the event is that was first hinted at in Books 4-6.

 

My Rand/Finn connection theory is still fairgame.

[Aleron688]

Since this thread is supposed to be about some "thing" mentioned in Books 4-6 that has been overlooked that will somehow be significant in the coming two books, how does that arrow not potentially qualify?

 

To those posting directly above: Whether Rand's new sword is Justice or not is irrelevant in this thread. Justice was seen in the second book, not in books 4-6.

 

Mat's eye has been speculated about endlessly, everywhere.  Sanderson would have surely seen at least one of those threads, so it can't be his eye.

 

how can this arrow be the something big? sneak it into the land of the Finns and use it as a weapon?  just sounds unreasonably small.  i dont even think that it has been recurring... they just mention she has it, and then leave it at that.  or else i could be wrong.  Do they continually bring it up, and is she constantly speculating on who she is going to aim it at?

[Bob T Dwarf]

Sanderson equated it to a "thing" mentioned in Mistborn.  Something thought insignificant by the characters.  Something that proved pivotal in the latter stages of that series.

 

I'm just saying that perhaps Birgitte's arrow is a similar thing.  It hasn't been mentioned by the characters.  Neither they nor we have ever speculated about how and why she was able to bring it with her.  Overlooked in the same way a thing was overlooked in Mistborn.

[Aleron688]

Sanderson equated it to a "thing" mentioned in Mistborn.  Something thought insignificant by the characters.  Something that proved pivotal in the latter stages of that series.

 

I'm just saying that perhaps Birgitte's arrow is a similar thing.  It hasn't been mentioned by the characters.  Neither they nor we have ever speculated about how and why she was able to bring it with her.  Overlooked in the same way a thing was overlooked in Mistborn.

 

ok, then if it turns out to be right, let it be shown that you said it first :)

 

now forgive me for not believing it to be that :P

[EnderWarrior]

Sanderson equated it to a "thing" mentioned in Mistborn.  Something thought insignificant by the characters.  Something that proved pivotal in the latter stages of that series.

 

I'm just saying that perhaps Birgitte's arrow is a similar thing.  It hasn't been mentioned by the characters.  Neither they nor we have ever speculated about how and why she was able to bring it with her.  Overlooked in the same way a thing was overlooked in Mistborn.

 

From reaidng the mistborn series The Thing was mentions through out just in causaul a dorp here a drop there

 

The arrow was only mentions a coupel of times and its been forgoton the salidar aes sedai took it form nyn and ely when they whowed up there they gave it bakc and that was the last we heard of it

 

Mod Edit: And we aren't spoiling the Mistborn series here, folks.  WoT only, please. :)

[Sentinel78]

Can anyone ever remember reading a forum discussion of any mind-connection that the Finns have with Rand (not Mat, which we already know about)? 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Can anyone ever remember reading a forum discussion of any mind-connection that the Finns have with Rand (not Mat, which we already know about)? 

 

Mat thinks there is a connection from him to the Eelfinn.  It hasn't been proven that he is right, although it seems highly likely that he is.

 

Rand has never visited the Eelfinn.  There can be no connection from him to them.

[JenLenaMom]

What about the steam engine? (It has been mentioned all of 3 times that I remember) or one of the other inventions at the Academies Rand started. What big part it could play I have no idea; just tossing out possibilites.