The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Mr Ares]

I'm not saying the two dresses don't look the same, and it's not at all clear that that is the case.

Because the descriptions don't match and they were the only evidence you had. Why would Graendal be doing this in the first place? There is not so much as a hint that this is Graendal. This woman has no more attention paid to her than any other background character in the same chapter. Why should we accpet there is something sinister about this woman? You are reaching with this. And it isn't relevant to this thread anyway, as it couldn't be the unnoticed thing. It only happens in one book, and we have no reason to accept it as Graendal, so there is no reason why it should have been overlooked.

 

I'm new to posting but have been a lurker for many years.

 

Could the thing that has been ongoing from the timeframe of books 4-6 be something as simple as the sealing of the Waygates that has been undertaken by first Loial and then Elder Haman? It has been mentioned through the books but is rarely commented on that I have seen.

 

As the Last Battle approaches it would be interesting to see if Rand's concern over them being used by the Shadow to cause chaos in the enemies rear (so to speak).

 

Just a thought...

I'd be disappointed if that was the answer, as they've been discussed a fair bit. We know that there are some unblocked Waygates, for example, and people suspect they will be used in the Last Battle to move Trollocs. Hell, people even note which are unblocked/unwatched.

 

So, after 50 pages of discussion, we still have absolutely no clue what this thing could be. But we are starting to gain a much better appreciation of what it couldn't be.

[Firebird]

The person who first thought of this should get credit.

 

Can't remember which book, but one of the forsaken was commenting on the bond being new to this age, and they wanted to figure it out. We have seen different incarnations of the bond; women to male, male to woman, and male channeler to non-channeling female. The bonding does seem to be a big thing, it has been discussed, but I wish I could find that quote by the forsaken about the bond. There may be more to it than first realized.

 

If anyone has the quote handy, thanks, it's appreciated.

 

I'm not sure if this is the quote you're thinking of, but when Semirhage captures and tortures Cabriana Mecandes and her warder, she thinks about their bond:

 

Pausing, Semirhage studied him. There was something... A tightness around the mouth and eyes. As if he already fought pain. Of course. That peculiar bond between Aes Sedai and Warder. Strange that these primitives should have come up with something that none of the Chosen understood, yet it was so. From the little she knew, this fellow quite possibly felt at least some of what the other patient was undergoing. Another time that would present interesting possibilities. Now, it only meant that he thought he knew what he was facing.

 

That's from Lord of Chaos, Chapter 6.

 

 

[1eejit]

I'm not saying the two dresses don't look the same, and it's not at all clear that that is the case.

Because the descriptions don't match and they were the only evidence you had. Why would Graendal be doing this in the first place? There is not so much as a hint that this is Graendal. This woman has no more attention paid to her than any other background character in the same chapter. Why should we accpet there is something sinister about this woman? You are reaching with this. And it isn't relevant to this thread anyway, as it couldn't be the unnoticed thing. It only happens in one book, and we have no reason to accept it as Graendal, so there is no reason why it should have been overlooked.

Yes, the entirely subjective part of the descriptions (which I have already addressed) don't match... That's your sole reason for dismissing it? It was accepted when first proposed and discussed over on wotmania.

 

Two supposedly different characters. Both with jewelled rings in each finger. Both with blue domani dresses. Both of which are very rare by themselves, and as a combination are unique to these two supposedly different characters. Both appearing in consecutive chapters. In a book written by a master of hiding things in plain sight.

 

 

[lordofsoup]

Brandon is probably laughing at us, cuz we are dumb and havent figured it out yet and this thread is 50+ pages and shows no sign of dying.

[SI]

Wasn't the ogier stump mentioned in these books? I just started rereading the series but I vaguely remember that being mentioned once or twice and then never again.

[Terez]

Yeah, well it kind of ceased to be a minor detail (if it ever was one) in Knife of Dreams.  It's been discussed a lot.

[aunt_pol]

Lads I reckon it could be the Red Crystal Throne.

The one sat in the square with Rhuidean with all sorts of interesting magical stuff.

Rand notices it (in book 4) then Moiraine carts it off (in book 5) with her cartloads of *angreal to Cairhien.

 

THEN, Egwene has a dream where Rand is sitting in someone's chair, and the owner, a woman, is 'murderously' angry with him.

 

Seems a bit peculiar - I can't imagine Fortuona going rummaging around in storerooms in Cairhien.

 

Also, it may well be the twin of her big old perch back in Seandar, but I can't imagine she'd assume him to have gone stealing. Then again, maybe she would...

I just think the only other 'woman & chair' scenario that made any sense was the Sun Throne and Colavaere, who was fairly pissed, or indeed the Lion Throne, and Elayne was annoyed, (but hardly murderous) and anyway he never even sat in that, IIRC.

And anyway, both of those are long since wrapped up.

 

What y'all think?

 

 

 

[CUBAREY]

Sun Throne and Colavaere, who was fairly pissed, or indeed the Lion Throne, and Elayne was annoyed, (but hardly murderous) and anyway he never even sat in that, IIRC.

 

Actually it was the throne of Camylin, and Elayne was quite pissed when she heard that Rand had taken control of the country and intended to "give here" the throne.

[Goatherder]

Hello everybody. I´ve been following dragonmount almost from the start but registerd for the for first time today because of this topic. This is my first contribution, I have not been reading all the theorys so forgive me if this has already been submitted. Here it goes!

 

In book 4 (I think) the wise ones claims that entering the world of dreams in flesh is evil when they try to teach Egwene. This is not explained further and we have seen Rand entering in flesh at least 3 times and Egwene at least ones (going to Salidar). I have not seen any theories about why this is evil. My own theory is that since only the creator, the dark one and the world of dreams are the constants, then the world of dreams is somehow essential in keeping the dark one away from reality, and making a "hole" in it is therefore beneficial for the dark one.

 

I believe that this could be the big thing first mentioned in book 4-6 and has been repeated now and then without much attention.

 

Goatherder

 

 

[Strom Jak]

I think it's related to Semirhage's torturing of Cabriana Mecandes but not about the bond.  I'm not exactly sure where but there is a scene where Graendal is speaking with Sammael (I think it was Sammael).  He asks her if she has found a "binder" and she denies it.  

 

Later, while Semirhage is torturing Cabriana Sedai she reminisces about what drove her to swear to the Dark Lord.  Her sadistic nature had been outed and she'd been given the choice of being severed or bound.  She recalled that shortening her life and being marked a criminal for all to see (or words to that effect) was not an option.  

 

With the revelations of the Kin and the realization that being bound to the Oath Rod shortened the lives of the Aes Sedai as well as giving them an "ageless" look it's clear that the original use of the Oath Rods were to bind criminal Aes Sedai in order to prevent them from harming others.

 

Since the look and the shortened life span in reference to the Oath Rod have been discussed extensively throughout the books this fits the parameters of being brought up between books 4 and 6 and refered to repeatedly ever since.

 

Unfortunately, I can't particularly see how it's such an important point other than as trivia.

 

 

[Terez]

Hey Strom, you might want to read the pertinent quotes again.  It's a minor detail that has been present for 'books and books', but Brandon claims it's not been discussed so far as he can tell on the fan forums.

[aunt_pol]

As I said, though, Elayne was hardly what you could call 'murderously' angry? And, he didn't sit on it! He sat on a smaller chair/throne in front of it. I know, I know, but still...

[Strom Jak]

Hey Strom, you might want to read the pertinent quotes again.  It's a minor detail that has been present for 'books and books', but Brandon claims it's not been discussed so far as he can tell on the fan forums.

 

Has the original use of the Oath Rods for binding Aes Sedai criminals been discussed?  If I missed that I apologize.  If it hasn't been discussed I still think it fits.

[SteveD]

I posted this thread to tarvalon.net, and a few people suggested the 'hidden-thing' might be the song the Tinkers are searching for (first mentioned in book 1, but first explained in book 4).

 

The song the Tinkers are looking for is the growing-song of the Aiel from the Age of Legends. It's often ignored as Tinker-backstory, but it is important for two reasons. First, it could address the food shortages caused by Rand (which would otherwise likely cause mass starvation even if he won the last battle). Second, it would likely be able to push back the Blight (and reclaim the lands of the Malkier for Lan, Nnyaeve and the Malkie they've gathered to repopulate).

 

The song needs three groups; Aiel and Ogier (1 for every ten men), and also Myn (creatures like the Green Man). Clearly there are none of these left (and I don't know how they were created), but I believe they are connected to the Avendesora (Rand heard it belonged to the Green Man). That was burnt at the end of book 4, but its still alive at the beginning of book 5, and supposed to bud again one day. I think Jordan put it in the story for a reason bigger then an excuse for the Aiel war.

[Terez]

Hey Strom, you might want to read the pertinent quotes again.  It's a minor detail that has been present for 'books and books', but Brandon claims it's not been discussed so far as he can tell on the fan forums.

 

Has the original use of the Oath Rods for binding Aes Sedai criminals been discussed?  If I missed that I apologize.  If it hasn't been discussed I still think it fits.

Yes, it has been discussed, quite a bit.  Also, it's not really comparable to the minor detail from Mistborn that Brandon mentioned.

[Strom Jak]

Hey Strom, you might want to read the pertinent quotes again.  It's a minor detail that has been present for 'books and books', but Brandon claims it's not been discussed so far as he can tell on the fan forums.

 

Has the original use of the Oath Rods for binding Aes Sedai criminals been discussed?  If I missed that I apologize.  If it hasn't been discussed I still think it fits.

Yes, it has been discussed, quite a bit.  Also, it's not really comparable to the minor detail from Mistborn that Brandon mentioned.

 

I apologize.

[Terez]

No need to apologize.  Just sayin.  ;)  Have you read Mistborn?  I keep thinking that a lot of people haven't, or they wouldn't be suggesting the things they're suggesting.

[VisualPun64]

Hm... the Avendesora theory is interesting. Maybe that combined with the Tinker's "Song" could be used to beat back the Blight? That does seem a bit random though...

 

However, in book 4 the Waste did get a giant lake put smack dab in the middle of Rhuidean. And Avendesora is still alive. We haven't really seen the waste since book five, who knows what kind of effects this could have had on the Waste? Vegetation? Some actual life? While this seems really interesting, I don't know how it's really "big", unless this could somehow help re-unify the Aiel and bring them together for the Last Battle. Or maybe it can be a symbol of hope for people, showing that Rand CAN do something right.... Idk, but it seems interesting to me anyway. Maybe if we get an Avi POV in ToM we can see what has happened to the Waste, if anything.

[Aleron688]

I don't really know where to post this... maybe here, maybe in tower reunification, or something else entirely...

 

what possible ways of there of beating the Oath rod?  BS said something about we should be thinking of ways that it can be broken.

 

i've been thinking... and i can just come up with that you can lie if you believe it to be true.

 

So Mesaana beats it by claiming she isn't a darkfriend because she doesn't think that she is?  she considers herself more than that... but is that really how she can stay in the tower? or am i missing something?

[mossman87]

I don't really know where to post this... maybe here, maybe in tower reunification, or something else entirely...

 

what possible ways of there of beating the Oath rod?  BS said something about we should be thinking of ways that it can be broken.

 

i've been thinking... and i can just come up with that you can lie if you believe it to be true.

 

So Mesaana beats it by claiming she isn't a darkfriend because she doesn't think that she is?  she considers herself more than that... but is that really how she can stay in the tower? or am i missing something?

 

I wouldn't consider that a tucked away puzzle that's more important than, "Who killed Asmo?" though.  Plus since as you say, BS mentioned it and he already said he wouldn't give out anything more on the unnoticed thing.

[SteveD]

Hm... the Avendesora theory is interesting. Maybe that combined with the Tinker's "Song" could be used to beat back the Blight? That does seem a bit random though...

 

Remember in the first book, the Green Man was able to hold back the blight around the Eye of the World. Even after he died (and the Eye was spent), Loial was able to use his song to strengthen what growth the Green Man had left behind so that the blight would not reclaim it. If the Nym were to be recreated it stands to reason they could be used to fight the Blight.

[NetSlider]

Haven't read the last four pages of this post but what about the bond to Allana. More specificaly, can't the warder feel another warder if they are bonded to the same AS? I remember Allana having 1 more warder after one was killed in 2 rivers. Rand cant feel him though

[Thorn]

I suspect people are dramatically overestimating the amount of time that Brandon spends reading the forums. Just because something has been discussed doesn't mean that Brandon has seen the discussion. My guess is that we should probably only exclude very major topics -- asmodean, min's prophecies, so forth -- from consideration for that reason.

[GothiKal]

ok. shot in the dark and will probably be destroyed by someone but here ya go:

 

bear with me... Callandor and the fact that it doesnt have a barrier to block the taint. heres a quote by NegaWalker from another thread that i feel is a viable explanation of callandors intended use:

 

My own theory involves the fact of the 'flaw' in Callandor, which might not really be a flaw.

 

My guess is this:

 

Callandor is a Sa'angreal not just for the Male half, but also for the TRUE power. The reason it magnified the Taint is because the Taint and the True Power were effectively identical to it.

 

I assume the Three Become One involves the three Powers:

 

Saidin.

Saidar.

The True Power.

 

Perhaps Rand has to use the True Power to restrain or hold back the Dark One, while using Saidin and Saidar both to seal the hole, via a link. Robert Jordan pretty much said, if I recall one interview correctly, that if just women did it then it would be Saidar that would have been tainted, and if both did, they both would have been.

 

So there needs to be something that keeps the Dark One from touching the Weave, thus the True Power comes into play. Via Rand's link with Moridin, he has access to the True Power most likely. So he can manage to use all three powers to push the Dark One back and repair the Bore like it never was with both the male and female powers.

 

callandor although drawn from the stone in book 3 was used in a way that rand didn't pay attention to the feel of the power, whereas (if i have the timing right) at the begining of book 4 he cast the awesome lightning of darkspawn death and destruction and started to feel like he could do anything... just like when he used the TP in TGS. maybe its the fact that the real use for callador will be figured out in ToM. feel free to find holes or innaccuracies as i havent got the books with me right now. :P

[mike-cook]

I really hope that's not how they end up sealing the bore. I mean seriously think about it. Block the dark one with his own power? I mean if the true power comes directly from the dark one how would it hold him back? Also, Robert Jordan has said that the Dark One can prevent anyone he wants from using the true power. Like seriously Rand shows up at Shayol Ghul to use the true power against him then Dark One can just be like "ahhhh nah not today Rand" and just cut him off. It would be really crappy if they ended up sealing the prison like that. Also even if they did do that, Herid Fel has said that somewhere along the line the prison has to be whole again like it was before the bore was drilled.