The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Morsker]

Didn't Nynaeve use balefire without learning it from someone else?

Yes. Probably wilders are just good at figuring out weaves. Aviendha gets Traveling instinctively too. But I think Moiraine is a bit weak to be figuring out something as powerful as balefire without help.

[Dreamwalker]

Didn't Nynaeve use balefire without learning it from someone else?

 

Yes, she instinctively uses it tDR Ch. 39 without ever having been taught the weave. Since Nynaeve has a pretty perfect memory when it comes to weaves she surely knows now exactly how to make balefire after reflexively doing it that first time.

 

EDIT: Ah, Morsker beat me to it.

[farthammer]

With the exception of channelers that are at the very bottom of being able to channel at all,  is it pointed out in the books that strength in the power is strongly related with how fast you can learn?  I ask because at the time Nynaeve used balefire she had yet to defeat her block.  Even with Moiraine being comparatively weaker at least she can channel at will and is more comfortable with it.

[Orderofolde]

Here's something that has been sort of really subtle but fit nicely into the background that just leapt out earlier today and clubbed me when I was looking over the big map showing all of Shara, the Blight, Seanchan, etc.  All through the books we see empty farms abandonned in Cairhein, forgotten cities of ruins in Andor (Old Manatharen), things that used to belong to vast kingdoms that no longer are there only fragments called something else, and many places humans themselves seem to be receeding in population even post-Breaking.  There was specific mention of it in the earlier books, Rand following Ingtar, old Statues, Matt's memories before the Trolloc wars, Shadar Logoth, The Blight swallowing up the Seven Towers and Malkier.  If the Wheel strives for a Balance, Good vs. Evil, births and good things to balance the deaths we see especially until very recently(Not to mention all the Amayar offing themselves), ...if the Dark One's forces are growing for the Last Battle where a hundred thousand Trollocks attacking the Manner house is larger than most "Good" armies, where Under the Light are all the People?  We're not just scraping the bottom of the barrel, the barrel's been downright sold if aged farmers are turning scythes into polearms and moving almost zombie-like towards the Gathering Storm.

[scott_swampy]

I've been away for a while (bout two hundred post's Edit: 2000 ;)) Have we given up on the Unoticed Thing? or do we know what it is? My theory : Mat is a hero of the horn(or will be more like).

 

It is in book four that he goes through the door-way and is told that his fate is to "Die and live again."???

 

Please be gental in shooting me down...  

[scott_swampy]

Please remove

[FarShainMael]

That's already happened. Mat was killed by Rahvin's lightning, and brought back to life when Rand balefired Rahvin clean out of the Pattern. (TFoH Ch54,55).

 

 

[FarShainMael]

Mat's gifts from the Eelfinn..

 

What he unwittingly asked (tSR Ch24) for were:

 

1. He wanted the holes in his memory filled. "Done."

2. He wanted to be free of Aes Sedai and the One Power. "Done."

3. He wanted to be back in Rhuidean. "Done. Wise to ask leavetaking."

 

He got the  holes filled, he got the medallion, he was returned to R (admittedly on the brink of death). But what was the ashandarei for? Was it the means by which those holes were filled; if so, how? Or, since the 'finns cannot go outside their realm it seems, did they tie Mat to it by the neck and simply throw it out the doorway?

 

PS. One more thing.. If Mat is a Robin Hood parallel, someone's noticed that Birgitte was once known as Maerion:

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,57416.0.html

 

You know, I completely agree with you, but would be cool if the spear was also shock lance or something. Just a thought.

 

I've commented on this once before, but I think it's strange that it is a power-forged weapon that is marked with black ravens.  I think it was the weapon of one of the shadow's generals either during the Trolloc Wars or during the War of Power in the AoL.

 

Looney, looney theory . . . I think it was a weapon made by Demandred for one of his "proxy" generals during the War of Power.  He'll recognize the weapon he once made for one of his cronies just moments before it separates his head from his neck.  Yeah, Mat!

 

I guess that little wish of mine belongs in the "thing you really want to happen" thread.

 

Anyway, I agree that there's something more to Mat's Ashandarei that we will hopefully learn about before the end of the series.  I doubt it's the BUT, though. 

Yeah, that makes two of us -- probably not the BUT, but still quite unexplained why the Finns would stick Mat with a weapon that he's been able to make such good use of, and seems quite familiar with, just to use as a Post-it note.

 

Even loonier theory.. I wonder if it's Callandor Mk2? You know, the other male sa'angreal? Maybe, if Mat is going to be using his shiny new black yew bow, perhaps Rand will take over the ashandarei?

 

(AFAIK, Rand hasn't handled it at all, except perhaps briefly when he was unhooking Mat in Rhuidean.)

 

 

[NetSlider]

Mat's gifts from the Eelfinn..

 

What he unwittingly asked (tSR Ch24) for were:

 

1. He wanted the holes in his memory filled. "Done."

2. He wanted to be free of Aes Sedai and the One Power. "Done."

3. He wanted to be back in Rhuidean. "Done. Wise to ask leavetaking."

 

He got the  holes filled, he got the medallion, he was returned to R (admittedly on the brink of death). But what was the ashandarei for? Was it the means by which those holes were filled; if so, how? Or, since the 'finns cannot go outside their realm it seems, did they tie Mat to it by the neck and simply throw it out the doorway?

 

PS. One more thing.. If Mat is a Robin Hood parallel, someone's noticed that Birgitte was once known as Maerion:

 

http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,57416.0.html

 

You know, I completely agree with you, but would be cool if the spear was also shock lance or something. Just a thought.

 

I've commented on this once before, but I think it's strange that it is a power-forged weapon that is marked with black ravens.  I think it was the weapon of one of the shadow's generals either during the Trolloc Wars or during the War of Power in the AoL.

 

Looney, looney theory . . . I think it was a weapon made by Demandred for one of his "proxy" generals during the War of Power.  He'll recognize the weapon he once made for one of his cronies just moments before it separates his head from his neck.  Yeah, Mat!

 

I guess that little wish of mine belongs in the "thing you really want to happen" thread.

 

Anyway, I agree that there's something more to Mat's Ashandarei that we will hopefully learn about before the end of the series.  I doubt it's the BUT, though. 

Yeah, that makes two of us -- probably not the BUT, but still quite unexplained why the Finns would stick Mat with a weapon that he's been able to make such good use of, and seems quite familiar with, just to use as a Post-it note.

 

Even loonier theory.. I wonder if it's Callandor Mk2? You know, the other male sa'angreal? Maybe, if Mat is going to be using his shiny new black yew bow, perhaps Rand will take over the ashandarei?

 

(AFAIK, Rand hasn't handled it at all, except perhaps briefly when he was unhooking Mat in Rhuidean.)

 

 

Rand would feel that the object is power related if he is close to it. And if he touches it, he would definitely know.

[FarShainMael]

That's why I said about him not having handled it. While he was giving Mat CPR he was a bit preoccupied, also with the exit from Rhuidean, being chased by the 'dust devils'. Since then, I have the impression those two haven't been in close proximity much (apart from the Darkhound attack, when Mat didn't have his spear to hand) but I could be wrong.

 

 

[DemandredFO]

Probably not the but, however, it might be important to figure out how they stuck him to Avendasora with their limitations.  Might be important for the Tower of Ghenji

[Sharaman]

The Finns could just have walked upto Avendasora, and hanged him, they are certainly physically capable of it.

Mat describes the foxes as taller than Aiel with broad shoulders, etc.

Their limitations prevent them from doing "magic" outside their realm, not normal physical stuff. 

BTW, how/why do the portal stones have Rhuidean marked on them?

The stone belong to a pre-AoL era while Rhuidean is post-Breaking and nobody was using portals by that stage.

 

[NetSlider]

Probably not the but, however, it might be important to figure out how they stuck him to Avendasora with their limitations.  Might be important for the Tower of Ghenji

Well, Slayer might be a good candidate to consider...

[Sharaman]

Probably not the but, however, it might be important to figure out how they stuck him to Avendasora with their limitations.  Might be important for the Tower of Ghenji

Well, Slayer might be a good candidate to consider...

No - Rhuidean can't be reached from TAR. Nor can Finnland.

[NetSlider]

Probably not the but, however, it might be important to figure out how they stuck him to Avendasora with their limitations.  Might be important for the Tower of Ghenji

Well, Slayer might be a good candidate to consider...

No - Rhuidean can't be reached from TAR. Nor can Finnland.

Actually, FInnland can. Remember Parrin chasing slayer...he did enter Tower from TAR.

[Shazzai]

The Finns could just have walked upto Avendasora, and hanged him, they are certainly physically capable of it.

Mat describes the foxes as taller than Aiel with broad shoulders, etc.

Their limitations prevent them from doing "magic" outside their realm, not normal physical stuff.   

BTW, how/why do the portal stones have Rhuidean marked on them?

The stone belong to a pre-AoL era while Rhuidean is post-Breaking and nobody was using portals by that stage.

 

 

The symbol for Rhuidean was taken from the stone?

[Dreamwalker]

The Finns could just have walked upto Avendasora, and hanged him, they are certainly physically capable of it.

Mat describes the foxes as taller than Aiel with broad shoulders, etc.

Their limitations prevent them from doing "magic" outside their realm, not normal physical stuff.   

BTW, how/why do the portal stones have Rhuidean marked on them?

The stone belong to a pre-AoL era while Rhuidean is post-Breaking and nobody was using portals by that stage.

 

 

The symbol for Rhuidean was taken from the stone?

 

That's what I've always thought - that the symbol had already been on the stone (before the place was Rhuidean) and then once the Aiel had settled in the Waste they adopted that symbol for Rhuidean. Actually that symbol was probably adopted for Rhuidean by the AS that were with the Jenn Aiel, since they probably knew that was the symbol on the stone that went to that particular place.

[Sharaman]

Probably not the but, however, it might be important to figure out how they stuck him to Avendasora with their limitations.  Might be important for the Tower of Ghenji

Well, Slayer might be a good candidate to consider...

No - Rhuidean can't be reached from TAR. Nor can Finnland.

Actually, FInnland can. Remember Parrin chasing slayer...he did enter Tower from TAR.

Perrin didn't enter the Tower and the Tower is not in Finnland itself, it's a portal to Finnland.

 

Quote from ACoS tour 1996

 

Q: Also, what was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?

RJ: Not traveling in time. the physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One here is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is really bad. You can not go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).

 

 

[Pep Strebek]

After re-reading the series with the BUT in mind I've tried to make a list of things that have disappeared from the narrative. I've found a lot of the ones that have already been listed throughout this thread or that have been discounted as per Brandon's answers.

 

Two other things that crop up are:

 

1. What ever happened to the little fat man angreal? It was mentioned many times how it was extremely powerful. I know Rand used it exclusively until he found the Choeden Kal but it kind of disappeared after that. I don't think it's "big" enough to be the BUT but it's always struck me as odd that it just stopped being mentioned. I'm curious if he'll go back to using it now that the Choeden Kal is destroyed.

 

2. The note that Matt finds among the slaughtered Tinker's wagons that reads "Tell the Dragon Reborn" or some such. I know he's never told Rand about the note but I don't know if it's a subject that's already been covered in this thread (I've tried to keep up but with 250+ pages it makes verification difficult to say the least).

[lordofsoup]

i dont think that fat man angreal was that strong, it was just another angreal.  Rand with his angreal vs Lanfear and her own angreal, was a pretty even fight. 

[Pep Strebek]

i dont think that fat man angreal was that strong, it was just another angreal.  Rand with his angreal vs Lanfear and her own angreal, was a pretty even fight. 

 

Hmm. I seem to remember it being mentioned a few times that it was pretty powerful (Callandor and the Choeden Kal being the only more powerful angreal that Rand had used). Still, I can't imagine that it would be tied to the BUT it's just something that stuck out to me.

[Darkspot]

Has Rand used any besides those 3?  I thought it just made him feel powerful compared to not having one, which I thought all Angreal made any channeler feel.

[Naffy]

I have a feeling that Taim picked up the little fat man angreal when he rescued Rand at Dumai's Wells.  I think that is when Rand lost it.  Logain may be in for a bit of a surprise.

[Hadilmir]

Moridin as the near-invisible watcher seems the better candidate to me. The strength of the angreal wasn't important, it was forcing Rand to use either Callandor or the CK that was Moridin's plan. We all know what path the CK led Rand down and we know he's been manipulating Rand since day one.

[Lambada]

Something related to the BUT being the unseen eyes in TaR is the fact that we got a very similar description of unseen watchers way back in Book 1 in Shadar Logoth.

 

Not sure what to make of it atm

 

Any thoughts?