White Tower Reunification Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[Whitering]

Tuon has said that Aes Sedai damane are poor performers when it comes to offensive power. I guess it is not that easy for an Aes Sedai to feel threatened. See Mat's chapter in the crazy village for how close to danger those Aes Sedai had to get to go on the offensive.

 

I did not really like Egwene in the early books, for quite a few reasons. She treated her friends like crap, was just like every other woman (save for Moraine, Min and Elayne) with Rand, which just gets on my nerves and was just plain arrogant. However, if this was a stand alone book, well, she was awesome. I was very happy with her chapters and have read them several times and will read them again. It's Perrin I've left behind now.

 

I hope she remembers Moraine when she goes to deal with Rand, and that she works with him instead of trying to control him.

 

Nynaeve gets away with it because she's been scolding Rand his whole life, Egwene will need to take a different tack.

 

I am not on board with Rand's influence with the Pattern causing Egwene to become Amyrlin. I do however believe there is a larger influence on the pattern, maybe the Creator himself. Think of Mat, Perrin, Nynaeve and Egwene herself coming from the same village Tam was from, and Tam being the one to find Rand. None of that had to do with Rand, but a larger power. Maybe the Pattern is defending itself from what the Dark One will do to it. I don't know.

[Durinax]

Egwene was fantastic this book, I had a few problems with how she regards rand throuhout it though,

like she has the same mentality as the rest of the AS, you know the one that darkened rands veiw of the world, that rand must be controlled at all costs.

 

Although she does do some damage to that mentallity when she got locked up and started to compare her experience to Rands, although his was way worse

[JenniferL]

Actually, she doesn't want to control Rand. Influence him, yes. But not control. She recalls Moiraine's example from TFoH. She is wrong on some of the things she thinks he's done, but that's because she's going by hearsay.

[Durinax]

wait a second, with the tower united, with a massive army do you think they will mobilize to fight the seanchan?

[Lambada]

The thing I don't get with Egwene is how, when talking with the other sisters about how she'd handle Rand she says how he's like "a river [...] calm and placid when not agitated, but a furious and deadly current when squeezed too tightly" and yet she doesn't make the connection with how to control saidar like Moiraine did. If I remember right she even asked Moiraine why she was doing as Rand asked and she said that "I remembered how to control saidar". The fact that Egwene has forgotten this is probebly one of my biggest *headdesks* in the series. The other Aes Sedai have some kind of excuse in that they haven't had it spelt out for them like Moiraine did to Egwene.

 

The other example of Egwenes hypocrisy is that several times she thinks about "how to deal with Rand" but when asked directly she states "dealing with is not the same as working with". There is no doubt that Egwene is making progress in her thought process. But she still has plenty of way to go.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Persackly.  Egwene thinks her experiences have purified her, made her worth of the office of Amyrlin.  She thinks the purge has purified the Tower.

 

She is so self-deluded.  She is so wrong.

[Durinax]

often people turn to the DO for greed, necessity and fear right?imagine how many novices and accepted would be darkfriends then

[Bob T Dwarf]

often people turn to the DO for greed, necessity and fear right?imagine how many novices and accepted would be darkfriends then

 

Especially among all of the overage ones Egwene is going to put on the books.  Especially since none of the Novices or Accepted are required to take any oaths.

 

She thinks the Tower is largely safe from internal rot.  She is so wrong.

[JenniferL]

The difference is Egwene isn't going to pretend the Tower is incorruptible and refuse to admit there could be a Black Ajah. They'll be vigilant for Darkfriends now.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Let's hope so.

 

Let's also hope that they think to look among the staff and Warders.  It wouldn't be easy for a DF to be a Warder for a none DF sister, but it probably isn't impossible either.

[Aiemond]

often people turn to the DO for greed, necessity and fear right?imagine how many novices and accepted would be darkfriends then

 

Especially among all of the overage ones Egwene is going to put on the books.  Especially since none of the Novices or Accepted are required to take any oaths.

 

She thinks the Tower is largely safe from internal rot.  She is so wrong.

 

I believe the book had the names of some of the accepted and novices that were darkfriends. Not only that, Egwene knows that the accepted and novices do not take the oath and there may be some there (unless it said in the chapters she had them take it then release, like Nicola did. She may also have done this anyways)). She also knows that any that were not darkfriends before entering the tower will not be recruited by the blacks.

 

I do not think she believes the tower is uncorruptable nor does she think it is safe, but she does, and rightly so, believe it has very few darkfriends left that can touch the one power.

[SinisterDeath]

I'm half expecting her to require all aes sedia returning from absenses of any length, to retake the oaths and declare they aren't a darkfriend infront of no-less than 4 aes sedia. <_<

 

Also, the accepted/novice, unlike the full fledged aes sedia, even if they are dark friends, they may not have had any 'oath', like the black ajah had. I think I remember Verin saying the black ajah only recruited from aes sedia, because of there 'oaths'. (Replacing them with that dark oath)

Still wondering what the 'black ajah' oath rod is though, she mentioned it was '...different', implying it was probably the DO himself? Definately not 13 BA/13 Mydraal method spoke of in the earlier novels, which makes for a complete 'personality reversal'...

[fikkie77]

I wonder what will happen to Elaida now. I feel she has been corrupted by Padan Fain. The Elaida in TGS is a different than the one in NS or TEOTW. She was hard and even heartless, but she turned to be extremely powerhungry and mistrusting. I wonder of the corruption of Fain will come through the a'dam and corrupt several sul'dam (and other damane) or that they aren't able to control her after some time.

[fikkie77]

I'm half expecting her to require all aes sedia returning from absenses of any length, to retake the oaths and declare they aren't a darkfriend infront of no-less than 4 aes sedia. <_<

 

Also, the accepted/novice, unlike the full fledged aes sedia, even if they are dark friends, they may not have had any 'oath', like the black ajah had. I think I remember Verin saying the black ajah only recruited from aes sedia, because of there 'oaths'. (Replacing them with that dark oath)

Still wondering what the 'black ajah' oath rod is though, she mentioned it was '...different', implying it was probably the DO himself? Definately not 13 BA/13 Mydraal method spoke of in the earlier novels, which makes for a complete 'personality reversal'...

Darkfriends pledge their oaths at Shayol Gul, so do the Black Ajah sisters. TGS does give the impression in works differently for channelers.

[kari-no-sugata]

Yeah, I sat down and worked through the book and tried to calculate exactly what they lost.

 

They sent:

At least eighty to 100 to'raken as per page 305 (perhaps "hundreds" as per page 559)

Five Bloodknives

200 Fists of Heaven soldiers

(fifty?) Damane pairs

 

lost:

 

At least 12 to'raken

more than thirty raken (which may include the to'raken)

At least ten damane captured

Unknown number more damane killed

 

Gained:

Forty untrained damane of which two dozen cannot be used as weapons

Travelling (as soon as they break Elaida, which probably won't take long).

 

Nice list but I think you forgot the number of Aes Sedai killed: more than 20. I don't remember any word on the number of novices and Accepted who were killed.

 

Going to be quite a few rooms going empty... though there's a lot of new arrivals. I can't imagine too many would want to take over a room that belonged to a Black Ajah sister though.

 

 

On the whole, it was probably a loss for the Seanchan in terms of gain/loss ratio, since the damane they gained aren't going to be as valuable as the ones they lost, but definitely a win once they get Travelling (and whatever other special weaves Elaida knows that the Seanchan don't).

 

Well, either way it'll only be a matter of time before the Seanchan pick up Travelling, but yes - that one weave would be worth a king's ransom.

[Durinax]

there is a possibility that the seanchan cannot learn the weave anyways, we do not know if the AS where killed by egwene shooting down raken and to'raken

[coteaz]

They will get the weave, They get the healing weave from another Aes Sedai made damane, so this situation isn't really that different.

[Warpath]

I'm a bit disappointed Egwene and Gawyn never got around to having their talk at the end of the book.  TGS focuses much on those two but without them resolving their problems ... it feels uncompleted.  I guess there is a possibility, since those two are so stubborn, that Brandon was forced to hold that part until the next book if its a long drawn out melodramatic relationship.

 

It seems Egwene is starting to relate to Rand, now that is has been imprisoned, beaten, and so on.  I've been wanting to like Egwene as a character but her fanatical "Aes Sedai" views and objections of Rand's actions have annoyed me.  Hopefully, she will act rationally if she ever sees Rand again and if Gaywn doesn't try to kill him.

 

BTW, when did Egwene find out the details of Rand's capture like being in the box and being beaten?  Was there a scene involving that news or is it just assumed she just heard it at some point in the White Tower?

[Durinax]

I think it became well known in the rebel camp shortly after the epic failure of elaidas cronies and their subsequent destruction

[singogreatest360]

She first heard it from the novices.

[Thorn]

 

Nice list but I think you forgot the number of Aes Sedai killed: more than 20. I don't remember any word on the number of novices and Accepted who were killed.

 

Going to be quite a few rooms going empty... though there's a lot of new arrivals. I can't imagine too many would want to take over a room that belonged to a Black Ajah sister though.

 

 

Yeah, good point -- I think I was just counting the dead AS as a mutual loss to everyone, not a "gain" as such, but in strategic terms you're right.

 

What's the total number of Tower AS + Kin now, surviving to this point? Several thousand right?

[Whitering]

I'm half expecting her to require all aes sedia returning from absenses of any length, to retake the oaths and declare they aren't a darkfriend infront of no-less than 4 aes sedia. <_<

 

Also, the accepted/novice, unlike the full fledged aes sedia, even if they are dark friends, they may not have had any 'oath', like the black ajah had. I think I remember Verin saying the black ajah only recruited from aes sedia, because of there 'oaths'. (Replacing them with that dark oath)

Still wondering what the 'black ajah' oath rod is though, she mentioned it was '...different', implying it was probably the DO himself? Definately not 13 BA/13 Mydraal method spoke of in the earlier novels, which makes for a complete 'personality reversal'...

Darkfriends pledge their oaths at Shayol Gul, so do the Black Ajah sisters. TGS does give the impression in works differently for channelers.

 

Ummm...no BA do not declare at Shayol Gul, nor does every DF, unless it is done in THR. Where did you read that? You think some of the panty waist DFs and even BA we have seen tromped through the blight that even Lan found dangerous to get all the way to SG? I can by an oath to Ishy or whoever that can make it binding in some way in THR but not a trip for every DF and BA to SG.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

I have a one question.  When Egwene went Super Sedai level 3 how in the hell didn't any of the other sisters feel the amount of Saidar she was handling?  The guards were the ones to notice.

 

P.S. - Egwene is badass

 

I'd say its because the damane were channeling large amounts of Saidar too.

[SinisterDeath]

I don't think Egwene was using as much as you guys seem to think she was...

She was probably in a small circle of 4 or 5 accepted, with that sa'angral which 'barely' brought her to her 'normal levels' outside said circle...

 

If anything she was probably near 'nyneave' levels all said and done. ;)

 

Course, the fight wasn't won by shere power, but by egwene actually getting off her ass and doing something.

 

Unlike the accepted, She knows deadly weaves... (most taught by the seanchan noless. <_<)

[richnewton82]

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