Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[jadelollipop]

I saw no evidence of Rand burning self out.

Not to change topic but not exactly sure where to post this. Think there is a thread re: the sealing of the Bore but I am reading The Worlds of the Wheel of Time and on page 41 there is a segment re: the finding of historical documents from the World of Shadow

"Fragmentary as it is,it contains more information about the War of the Shadow than any other known source,....the 6 consecutive pages and others that must be placed near them contain the only known account of events surrounding...the sealing of the Bore by Lews Therin Telamon and the Hundred Companions"  The book says it was found "in a dusty storage room in Chachin". Does anyone know what book might have mentioned this discovery or is this something yet to come?

[ed2funy]

I do not think it was mentioned in the books yet...

But I may be wrong.

 

RJ had a whole lot of things he made up for reference that we might never see.

[Declan]

yeah... that wouldn't make sense for him to be burned out. plus, his reaction would not suit him being burned out at all. Laughter and tears of joy is not the correct response. Horror is.

[ed2funy]

Hmm huh....

What he said...

[csarmi]

Well if he did burn himself out, he'd die, most likely. Actually, the minute he burnt himself out, all three of his spouses would think he's dead already. Would they dind him fast enough? There is a good chance they'd realize where he was (well, Min at least), but it's chancy.

 

His reaction does not fit anyway.

[Declan]

ive never heard of someone dying because they burnt themselves out......but i do know that even if he is still unable to touch the One Power his warder bonds with the three would hold or else they wouldnt work on people that couldn't channel. i dont know why im still arguing about this...

 

im guessing the taveren guys won't meet up together till AMoL. which is a chapter i have bee waiting for in like 4 books or something.

[ed2funy]

He channeled an air bubble...if he was burned out....he would have died...

 

[Spilt-pea Soup]

Anyone else wonder what exactly made Rand laugh?  I liked the scene as a whole, but left scratching my head at this one.

[Crael123]

Anyone else wonder what exactly made Rand laugh?  I liked the scene as a whole, but left scratching my head at this one.

 

i kinda agree...... it was nice.... but i kinda woulda liked it more if he was laughing over cadsuanes dead body or something. jk.

 

but i am curious to know what triggered that in him

[mossman87]

Anyone else wonder what exactly made Rand laugh?  I liked the scene as a whole, but left scratching my head at this one.

 

It's funny to him because he spent the last year or so of his life on this path, never knowing why he was doing it, and now he knows.

[ed2funy]

Exactly, he kept fighting to be able to be 'hard' and to be mr. awesome and everything....

 

he found out he was doing it all wrong...

[mossman87]

Exactly, he kept fighting to be able to be 'hard' and to be mr. awesome and everything....

 

he found out he was doing it all wrong...

 

Yep.

[Calderis]

Are you seriously saying that you've never been so engrossed in something, so completely focused that you never paid attention to something outside of your focus, that when you finally saw what had been in front of you the entire time you felt like an idiot and laughed at yourself? Everyone's been there, and that's what Rand's laughter is, only on a much larger scale.

 

Hell, everything from DW to now has been a run down the complete wrong path for him. He may have got some of his goals out of the way, but there's gotta be a part of his brain that's goin "Wow, I'm a tool!"

 

Really it's laugh or cry, and I'd rather laugh.

[Declan]

Are you seriously saying that you've never been so engrossed in something, so completely focused that you never paid attention to something outside of your focus, that when you finally saw what had been in front of you the entire time you felt like an idiot and laughed at yourself? Everyone's been there, and that's what Rand's laughter is, only on a much larger scale.

 

Hell, everything from DW to now has been a run down the complete wrong path for him. He may have got some of his goals out of the way, but there's gotta be a part of his brain that's goin "Wow, I'm a tool!"

 

Really it's laugh or cry, and I'd rather laugh.

 

like the saying goes: if it was a snake, it would have bit him.

[DukeBob]

yeah... that wouldn't make sense for him to be burned out. plus, his reaction would not suit him being burned out at all. Laughter and tears of joy is not the correct response. Horror is.

Something extreme happened to Rand. How else could you explain the fact that Rand knew LTT would not be back?

 

Of course Rand is not going to be burned out for TG. However if this proves to be a way to remove the effects of the taint, it would be worth being without until Nynaeve heals him.

 

 

It is a common theme that the hero has to be completely destroyed before he can be rebuilt. Rand sunk to the absolute depths in this book. He basically was forced against all of his core values. (killed women, hurt Min, almost killed Tam) This put him in the perfect position to start fresh for TG. Nynaeve and co. will find Rand and heal him in short order and he will be back to the butt-kicking Rand we all love.

[Declan]

he wasn't burned out. he had an epiphany, and that is why he knows he will never hear LTT again.

[randfandom]

Are you seriously saying that you've never been so engrossed in something, so completely focused that you never paid attention to something outside of your focus, that when you finally saw what had been in front of you the entire time you felt like an idiot and laughed at yourself? Everyone's been there, and that's what Rand's laughter is, only on a much larger scale.

 

Hell, everything from DW to now has been a run down the complete wrong path for him. He may have got some of his goals out of the way, but there's gotta be a part of his brain that's goin "Wow, I'm a tool!"

 

Really it's laugh or cry, and I'd rather laugh.

 

It did not feel like "I am a fool" type of laugh, but more of a relief - he reached closure. He knows why he is fighting, he accepted his past life and - most important - he found peace with himself for the first time ever in regard to Ilyena's death. He finally accepted it and moved on to "make it better next time". After suffering mountains of pain and guilt over it (as both Rand and LTT), he finally cleared this and can move on. I think Fel's note ("must clear rubble before you can build") applies to Rand's mental state and not just the crumbling seals.

 

And then, when he is finally at peace with himself, has decided to become the "sheltering hand" rather than a destroyer, and takes the first action by removing the means to destroy the world (by blowing up the CK), suddenly the clouds clear and the sun shines on him - for the first time in months. Almost as if the Creator himself has approved his decision.

 

No wonder he laughed. He just plain felt happy.

[aunt_pol]

 

I think the interesting bit here, really, is to figure out exactly what Rand's going to be like now, after his wee wobbly on DM. So, he's figured out the meaning of Life, the Universe & Everything. Well done: not before time.

How the hell is guilt not gonna cripple the man? He knows the whole episode with Min was not his fault, and I think he'll be back to normal with her. What about Tam? I'm just wondering if all sorts of Shadowy behaviour is gonna slip under the radar, so to speak, while he's grovelling goodo. And all the innocents at Graendal's pleasure palace. And lots of other stuff.

 

Also, importantly, loads of people saw him being/doing crazy. Is Nynaeve gonna have to send out a town cryer with a press release?

 

And, big question, how exactly is he gonna participate in TG now? Clearly it's not gonna be a massive display of saidin now that he has destroyed the CK: brute force is obviously not the key. And, if love is all, (presumably bringing forgiveness & redemption along with it) will he actually be able to kill all the loads & loads of DF's?

 

The flip side of this I guess is that he will finally learn how to delegate. Hopefully he's not gone so soft that he doesn't find enough teeth to ask Deira Bashere what her problem is. I know it's silly, but all her disdain & contempt bug the hell out of me. Somethin fishy going on with that whole family.

 

[Crael123]

 

I think the interesting bit here, really, is to figure out exactly what Rand's going to be like now, after his wee wobbly on DM. So, he's figured out the meaning of Life, the Universe & Everything. Well done: not before time.

How the hell is guilt not gonna cripple the man? He knows the whole episode with Min was not his fault, and I think he'll be back to normal with her. What about Tam? I'm just wondering if all sorts of Shadowy behaviour is gonna slip under the radar, so to speak, while he's grovelling goodo. And all the innocents at Graendal's pleasure palace. And lots of other stuff.

 

Also, importantly, loads of people saw him being/doing crazy. Is Nynaeve gonna have to send out a town cryer with a press release?

 

And, big question, how exactly is he gonna participate in TG now? Clearly it's not gonna be a massive display of saidin now that he has destroyed the CK: brute force is obviously not the key. And, if love is all, (presumably bringing forgiveness & redemption along with it) will he actually be able to kill all the loads & loads of DF's?

 

The flip side of this I guess is that he will finally learn how to delegate. Hopefully he's not gone so soft that he doesn't find enough teeth to ask Deira Bashere what her problem is. I know it's silly, but all her disdain & contempt bug the hell out of me. Somethin fishy going on with that whole family.

 

 

 

 

that is interesting about the guilt thing.... i dont think itl be a problem tho.

 

i think it will be funny to see everybodys reactions to newrand. maybe they will all think he fell so far out of his rocker that he is normal again. if that makes sense.

 

im curious to see how TG plays out also... i kinda hoped it was going to be rand going crazy w the CK and BFing everything that moves. but there are plenty more things that can be used to destroy like callandor, some other male sa angreals.... he might get Elayne to make him one. you never know. TG will be incredibly interesting i just hope it isnt anticlimatic

 

what is wrong with the Basheres? or fishy

[TheAngryDruid]

I think Moiraine's return (if true) and another meeting with Tam might help with some of the guilt.

 

On a personal level, he'll have to repair/restore the relationship with Min, and his next meeting with Avi (as she's back from the rings) will be a lot different as well (especially as she's ready to lay the wreath, which would mean Elayne and Min marrying him too).

 

He'll have to realize he needs help, and start being a better leader. More like the Rand who started the schools and asked for Herid's input. I think he should start be treating his subordinates better (Dobraine, Berelain, Darlin, Rhuarc & the chiefs, the Wise Ones, Bashere, Logain), and the issue with Cadsuane will need to be worked out.

 

He'll need to realize he needs help, and to ask for it. Pull Matt & Perin back. Egwene will want to talk about the BT and the Seanchan. AS issues will need to be worked out (Mo will help again).

 

On a strategic level, he needs to try again with the Borderlander's, and the Seanchan, but might want to ask some advice on how to deal with them (Nynaeve, Eggy, Mat through Egeanin may have some ideas).

 

Above all, he needs to figure out a strategy for the Last Battle (I'm hoping Verin's letters have an impact here).

 

 

[Spilt-pea Soup]

 

Above all, he needs to figure out a strategy for the Last Battle (I'm hoping Verin's letters have an impact here).

 

 

 

I found Verin's comment that Rand doesn't know how the Last Battle will be fought was the most interesting line in tGS.  So intriguing....how exactly is it being fought?  When will Rand figure this out?  How will this information shed light on the series, especially the DO and Forsaken's actions leading up to this point?  I can't wait.

[randfandom]

 

I think the interesting bit here, really, is to figure out exactly what Rand's going to be like now, after his wee wobbly on DM. So, he's figured out the meaning of Life, the Universe & Everything. Well done: not before time.

How the hell is guilt not gonna cripple the man? He knows the whole episode with Min was not his fault, and I think he'll be back to normal with her. What about Tam? I'm just wondering if all sorts of Shadowy behaviour is gonna slip under the radar, so to speak, while he's grovelling goodo. And all the innocents at Graendal's pleasure palace. And lots of other stuff.

 

I don't think he's just going to gate himself back to Tear and go room to room with teary apologies. Too cheesy and predictable.

 

Moreover, now that he more or less resolved the moral battle within himself, there is still all the physical damage. He can't face the DO, or even plain defend himself against mere humans, when he take several minutes vomiting just to seize Saidin. Not relying on the OP, with only one hand and bleeding wounds, he is not exactly a match to anyone trained in combat either. He will continue to be extremely vulnerable until at least the SL wound is Healed. I imagine this may be doable - after all, Mat was Healed from the dagger by a circle of 10 with the Sa'angreal, so the OP perhaps can defeat the SL taint, and maybe even the other one (maybe they can force the wounds to destroy each other, based on the method employed at the Cleansing).

 

In addition we have Gawyn's story line developed to its climax of disappointment and revenge.

 

So here is my wild theory...

 

I suspect that Gawyn and Rand will somehow run into each other on Dragonmount. Maybe Rand will go down to look for his mother's resting place. Naturally some evidence of his identity will be there. Gawyn will go up (to look at the sun perhaps? note that he was not near Egwene during the last chapter) and run into Rand. If Rand is taken by surprise or is not already holding the source, he stands no chance against Gawyn.

 

So I suspect Gawyn will stab him - more likely than not in (where else) the double wound (aiming at the heart, but that Taveren luck will make him miss). This will lead to Rand's near death, as has been predicted by so many foretellings and viewings. This will also be the second time that Perrin must be there or Rand goes down (after all Perrin has the evidence that Morgase is still alive) - except this time Perrin will be late - what's the point of a conditional viewing if they always come out the way we want them to?

Min, Aviendha and Elayne will of course show up soon after. They will want to take Rand to the Tower for Healing, but will not be able to Travel there since they don't know the area and can't wait. A remorseful Gawyn will lead them to that beggars' watergate and the three will take Rand on a boat to Tar Valon fulfilling the "Three in a boat" viewings.

Rand will probably go into clinical death for a while ("he who is dead yet lives" and all these viewings of a man dying in a narrow bed and funeral biers). How he'll be Healed from that I don't know, but he'll come out in good enough physical and mental shape to take on the DO, and everyone will be too relieved at that point to complain about his former attitude... While Rand lays dying would also be the perfect time for Taim to raise himself up as the leader, perhaps spreading the rumor that Rand has already died. This will cetainly bring about the showdown with Logain, that is also foreseen.

 

Of course, the book will probably prove me wrong but hey, the above theory neatly ties together quite a few loose strings...

[elec1cele]

They will want to take Rand to the Tower for Healing, but will not be able to Travel there since they don't know the area and can't wait. A remorseful Gawyn will lead them to that beggars' watergate and the three will take Rand on a boat to Tar Valon fulfilling the "Three in a boat" viewings.

Rand will probably go into clinical death for a while ("he who is dead yet lives" and all these viewings of a man dying in a narrow bed and funeral biers).

 

I could have sworn at least one of the three in a boat viewings specifically stated it happened after the last battle.

[maradon]

pretty sure it didn't say anything about after the last batrle, it was just assumed. Also where does Alivia helping to kill Rand come into that eqn with Gawyn?

[randfandom]

pretty sure it didn't say anything about after the last batrle, it was just assumed. Also where does Alivia helping to kill Rand come into that eqn with Gawyn?

 

Do I look like Brandon Sanderson? I just have a theory, but it just fits with two many plot points and foretellings... :-)

 

In answer to another comment, there is no indication anywhere that the "Three on a boat" happens after the LB. If anything, it usually comes before. For instance, Nicola's viewing (from LoC, paraphrased from memory):

 

"Three on a boat and the one who is dead yet lives. The Great Battle done but the world not done with battle..."

 

And Min's (from EoTW):

 

"Three women around a funeral bier with you [Rand] on it; black rock wet with blood...".

 

Both times, the three women scene comes *before* the prediction that (presumably) refers to the LB. I know they don't necessarily follow chronological order, but it's telling that both are shown before the LB.

 

Here is my second theory of how this could be done:

 

I think the prophecy "Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed" could be interpreted as "Rand will have his blood shed on two different days", this being one of them. The second is, of course, at Shayol Ghul. A direct sword cut on Rand's unhealable wounds will likely cause uncontrolled bleeding. Alivia (who will probably be the one to take Min to DM, since both Elayne and Aviendha are not around) could be instrumental in putting Rand into clinical death by stopping his heart, and thus any further blood loss from the injury.

 

If Perrin shows up with Morgase, then likely Galad is also there. If Tigraine's body has near it evidence of her identity, they will know that Rand is Galad's half brother. Arthurian myths say that Sir Galahad was the one who found the Holy Grail that Healed the Fisher King of his side wound, and thus helped heal the land, which health was tied to that of the Fisher King (sounds familiar?). Rand's loss of blood will mean he will need a blood transfusion, and Galad is the closest kin. Semirhage's weave of blood replacement could come in handy here...

 

Anyway, that's my theory. We only have 10 more months till we find out if it holds any water. :-)