Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[karehiro]

Don't forget the Dark Prophecies in The Great Hunt:

 

Daughter of the Night, she walks again.

The ancient war, she yet fights.

Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die,

  yet serve still.

Who shall stand against her coming?

The Shining Walls shall kneel.

Blood feeds blood.

Blood calls blood.

Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.

 

The man who channels stands alone.

He gives his friends for sacrifice.

Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying,

  one to life eternal.

Which will he choose?  Which will he choose?

What hand shelters?  What hand slays?

Blood feeds blood.

Blood calls blood.

Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.

 

Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun.  The Shadow's hounds now

  course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

The Time of Change has come.

Blood feeds blood.

Blood calls blood.

Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.

 

The Watchers wait on Toman's Head.

The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.

Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great

  Lord comes.

Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great

  Lord comes.

Now the Great Lord comes.

Now the Great Lord comes.

Blood feeds blood.

Blood calls blood.

Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.

Now the Great Lord comes.

 

The second passage and the last passage were most interesting to me.  That "what hand shelters, what hand slays" part is particularly significant once you factor in Rand losing one of his hands, and how he's recently been only using his power for the purpose of destruction rather than to "shelter" as he was meant to in another prophecy (the one talking about the sword of justice).

 

The last passage is interesting since I'm not sure what "seed slays the ancient wrong".  It may have already happened for all I know.  It also seems to be the same "seed" of the Hammer referenced earlier (usually "hammer" refers to Perrin but in this case it has to refer to Luthair Paendrag, Hawkwing's son who was known as the "Hammer", and the Seanchan).

 

It's also interesting that the Dark Propecies foreshadowed Aes Sedai swearing to Rand with the "Shining Walls shall kneel" line long before anything else did.

[Sentinel78]

Good post on prophecies, but I have a different interpretation on two of them. 

 

Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

 

- I think, although I’m not sure, that this talks about how he gets the set of double wounds on his side. I'm not sure what the mourning and the birth are though.

 

We don't know for sure yet, but I think this ties into Rand dying and yet living again.  Rand dies at the first dawn (mourning), and is somehow reborn at the second dawn (birth).  Whether this is a solar eclipse or something else, I don't know.  How Rand is reborn I certainly don't know, but have always felt this would be the Moridin body-swap.

 

With his coming are the dread fires born again.

The hills burn, and the land turns sere.

The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle.

The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised.

 

- All self explanatory except for the last line. This, I believe is a referance to the DO’s prison weakening and the wall between the DO and the world being taken down.

 

I thought the last line referred to the DRAGONwall being pierced, which is the separation between Randland and the Aiel Waste.  It is pierced by the Aiel, as implied by the "veil" of parting raised.  In other words, the Aiel "raise" their "veils" when they fight, and in Fires of Heaven they crossed the Dragonwall chasing the Shaido into Cairhien.

 

 

[maradon]

With his coming are the dread fires born again.

The hills burn, and the land turns sere.

The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle.

The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised.

 

- All self explanatory except for the last line. This, I believe is a referance to the DO’s prison weakening and the wall between the DO and the world being taken down.

 

I thought the last line referred to the DRAGONwall being pierced, which is the separation between Randland and the Aiel Waste.  It is pierced by the Aiel, as implied by the "veil" of parting raised.  In other words, the Aiel "raise" their "veils" when they fight, and in Fires of Heaven they crossed the Dragonwall chasing the Shaido into Cairhien.

 

Also the part

With his coming are the dread fires born again.

The hills burn, and the land turns sere.

is fulfilled in FoH, the dread fires probably indicate balefire, and how rand uses it for the first time in this book (saving Matt from the darkhounds in Rhuidean and to smoke Rhavin). Then in the battle outside Cairhien Rand sets the top of hills on fire (big balls of fire if I remember corrrectly).

[analyticalkeys]

Good post on prophecies, but I have a different interpretation on two of them. 

 

Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

 

- I think, although I’m not sure, that this talks about how he gets the set of double wounds on his side. I'm not sure what the mourning and the birth are though.

 

We don't know for sure yet, but I think this ties into Rand dying and yet living again.  Rand dies at the first dawn (mourning), and is somehow reborn at the second dawn (birth).  Whether this is a solar eclipse or something else, I don't know.  How Rand is reborn I certainly don't know, but have always felt this would be the Moridin body-swap.

 

Maybe his blood being shed isn't his literal blood, but rather his blood as in his family? I'm pretty sure it's just saying two different days.. not a solar eclipse, or anything like that.

[1eejit]

Heh yeah I've always had a soft spot for the theory that the 'blood' of Rand's being spilled will be Elayne's twins, possibly due to Fain grabbing them or Preggo Elayne.

[fikkie77]

Heh yeah I've always had a soft spot for the theory that the 'blood' of Rand's being spilled will be Elayne's twins, possibly due to Fain grabbing them or Preggo Elayne.

How about the Aiel?

[1eejit]

Possibly, but no living close Aiel relations have been intoduced. Luc or Galad are his closest kin afaik.

[Sentinel78]

I can see it now... Callandor breaks in half and Fain returns to the Light but trips and falls into the lava in the Pit of Doom, so Rand hops to Caemlyn, kidnaps his own babies and chucks them into the Bore.  The DO will never see it coming.  I'm sure Elayne will understand.

 

Does anybody really think this series is going to end with Rand's babies (or his remote Aiel relatives, or Galad) dead at SG, their blood miraculously stopping the DO for God knows what reason?

 

[Owayn The Traveller]

 

 

As the plow breaks the earth shall he break the lives of men,

and all that was shall be consumed in the fire of his eyes.

The trumpets of war shall sound at his footsteps, the ravens feed at his voice,

and he shall wear a crown of swords.

 

 

'All that was hsall be consumed in the fire of his eyes.' That is hardly an indication of continued use of the true power by Rand, I mean fire eyes. Or could it be an inicator for the whole body swap with moridin, maybe he will have fiery eyes again. The use of the true power does lead to firey pits in the place of the eyes does it not? Or was that just Ishy trying to scare the boys in their dreams in the first few books?

Or the use of the decription of his eyes just could be to give a dramation feel to the words. I dunno.

[Mortimer]

The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised.

 

I think the wall pierced, veil of parting thing references the dead walking around, and or the Dark One bringing folks back in a snap.

 

Twice dawns the day

 

I think is may be a Matt redux, done at 6ish AM. He dies, then someone bale-fires his killer with gusto, bringing him back.

 

Finally, not sure on the Narishma thing.  Yeah, it techinacally fits, but is completely ordinary and non-important. Why have something that lame in the prophecies of all time?

[aunt_pol]

I'm sure someone's prob thrashed this one out already, but frankly my head's melted from reading over on Theoryland, it's 2 a.m., and I just wanna give it a go.

 

I know there's been a lot of confusion over BS's comments about whether or not Rand is allowed channel the True Power, with some comments seeming unequivocal in it's denial, others saying "Difficult, but not impossible."

Now, I reckon the DO has probably had it printed on Rand's birth cert that he can fire ahead with the stuff.

 

1: It's supposed to be hugely addictive. This kinda ties in with Rand finding it fairly bloody juicy to use.

2: The DO knows all Lightfriends have the OP to use. He might just infer Rand using the TP as meaning that Rand WANTS to change sides.

3: I read somewhere here that it's hugely beneficial to the DO if the Dragon turns of his own accord, compared to his being forcibly turned.

4: LTT was in no doubt whatsoever about the total WTF terribleness of using the TP. DO prob doesn't expect anyone to use the feckin' stuff by accident, he probably reasons it's use to be essentially a Statement of Intent.

 

And the chicken & egg bit, I reckon (in my tired lil' brain) that there's a vicious circle kind of a carry on with the TP and Evilness. You use the TP, it makes you a bit dark, a bit cracked. Because you're a bit dark & cracked, you use a bit more, und so weiter. That's why it took so monstrous an event as nearly BF'ing his own da to bring Rand round. Presumably if Tam hadn't turned up, it'd be somewhere around too late by now.

 

I know all this is just so much crap if Rand is explicitly without DO permission, and will be hugely disappointed if it turns out to be so.

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

aunt_pol, I think I love you.

 

One of the most wonderful summations ever.

 

Please post more.

 

"Now, I reckon the DO has probably had it printed on Rand's birth cert that he can fire ahead with the stuff."  = pure wonderfulness.

 

[cleantoe]

Doesn't one of the prophecies say he has to die twice or something?

 

He repeatedly refers to the fact that the "old Rand" is dead, and now Darth Rand is dead too. Metaphorical deaths maybe, and prophecy fulfilled?

[trevorcroft]

I really wish now that heartless Dark Rand faced Fain this book.  He'll probably face him later when he's "enlightened" or whatever he's supposed to be now.  What a pity.  People like Fain and Gawyn are consistently granted a free pass in this series for what they pull.  Can't wait for the other shoe to drop on them.

 

Fain would have been hit with a big, and very unwelcome surprise.

 

I think Fain might be important in defeating the DO, if DarkRand saw Fain he probably just would have balefired him... if my theory is true the pattern wouldn't have let DarkRand meet Fain in that state.

[ShenAnCalhar]

4: LTT was in no doubt whatsoever about the total WTF terribleness of using the TP. DO prob doesn't expect anyone to use the feckin' stuff by accident, he probably reasons it's use to be essentially a Statement of Intent.

 

Definitely - and now that Rand presumably has LTT's knowledge, does he understand the ramifications of what he did?  If so, it would certainly be a bit of an "oh shit" moment during his happy little reintegration.

 

[aunt_pol]

Cheers Bob, you shouldn't really encourage middle of the night rambling though!!

Cleantoe, reckon you might have hit somethin there alright.

 

As for Fain, it'd be... weird... if he's useful in defeating the DO, wouldn't that be a bit too much Aridhol/Shadar Logoth ish again? Given as how Rand was pretty much beating that whole relationship to death the last 5 books or so.

Aren't they supposed to sing the DO to death or somethin now? Or bury him in flowers? Or somethin equally loving??!!

[Bob T Dwarf]

Cheers Bob, you shouldn't really encourage middle of the night rambling though!!

Cleantoe, reckon you might have hit somethin there alright.

 

As for Fain, it'd be... weird... if he's useful in defeating the DO, wouldn't that be a bit too much Aridhol/Shadar Logoth ish again? Given as how Rand was pretty much beating that whole relationship to death the last 5 books or so.

Aren't they supposed to sing the DO to death or somethin now? Or bury him in flowers? Or somethin equally loving??!!

 

Yes.  It's going to be Woodstock all over again. ;)

[stereomike]

I didn't read the full 77 pages of this thread, so if this has been discussed please point my to the rough page numbers.

 

How exactly did Rand destroy the Choedan Kal?  Did the weave (if any) that he used have anything to do with the break in the clouds?  Or was the break in the clouds purely caused by Rand's change of mood?

[toss the dice]

I didn't read the full 77 pages of this thread, so if this has been discussed please point my to the rough page numbers.

 

How exactly did Rand destroy the Choedan Kal?  Did the weave (if any) that he used have anything to do with the break in the clouds?  Or was the break in the clouds purely caused by Rand's change of mood?

 

for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he is one with the land

I believe that answers the cloud part. Rand happy=land happy, Rand no happy=land no happy. For the Choedan Kal the sheer amount of Saidin he was holding through the Kal was enough to destroy anything. He simply turned it back at the Choedan Kal.

[toss the dice]

ok so my first task was to try and voice my interpretation of the prophecy of the dragon. My next task is to compare all the different prophecies we've had. But i need help. Im gona try and find all the different versions and compare but i might miss something so any different translations/forms/different prophecy you have could you post them here after quoting this and ill try and compare them all and see what comes out of it.

[Dakota]

I didn't read the full 77 pages of this thread, so if this has been discussed please point my to the rough page numbers.

 

How exactly did Rand destroy the Choedan Kal?  Did the weave (if any) that he used have anything to do with the break in the clouds?  Or was the break in the clouds purely caused by Rand's change of mood?

 

The break in the clouds may have been caused by his mood, but I'd think that the break in the clouds probably has more to do with the sheer amounts of raw power he was channeling at that point.  He was probably using the CK to the absolute max they could have been used, if he was going to try to destroy the world.  Kind of like how an Atom Bomb blows the clouds away when it blows up, just channeling that much power was probably enough to blow the clouds outwards.

[stereomike]

for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he is one with the land

I believe that answers the cloud part. Rand happy=land happy, Rand no happy=land no happy. For the Choedan Kal the sheer amount of Saidin he was holding through the Kal was enough to destroy anything. He simply turned it back at the Choedan Kal.

 

Interesting, I had assumed the clouds were related to the DO touch on the world.  Do you think the clouds were purely caused by Rand's mood?

[singogreatest360]

Cheers Bob, you shouldn't really encourage middle of the night rambling though!!

Cleantoe, reckon you might have hit somethin there alright.

 

As for Fain, it'd be... weird... if he's useful in defeating the DO, wouldn't that be a bit too much Aridhol/Shadar Logoth ish again? Given as how Rand was pretty much beating that whole relationship to death the last 5 books or so.

Aren't they supposed to sing the DO to death or somethin now? Or bury him in flowers? Or somethin equally loving??!!

 

The battle between the Dark One and Rand will be a dance contest!!! That's why the DO is winning. Rand would be a terrible dancer now! 1 hand, that double wound and that blurry vision. His only hope is hot back up dancers the two women who will link with him.

[Aleron688]

does anyone else think that this whole Moridin/Rand body swap thing is a crock of shit, or is it just me?

 

i mean... i've read the "evidence" that this will happen... and i think its complete crap.  anyone agree?

[The Desert Pea]

Well then what's your theory on what will happen? Not trying to bash your opinion or anything, but if you come in saying an idea is complete BS then you should probably have something to support what you're saying. In my opinion, I think everything points towards the body swap theory being correct at the moment, but who knows? It could very well be be a red herring in the end.